(UK) Stephen Lawrence murder - Dobson & Norris Guilty

desertcircus

Batsy wrote: »

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Why did it take 18 years for the Metropolitan Police to discover a victims blood on a murderers jacket?

Because that tiny speck of blood wasn't on Norris or Dobson's jacket to start off with. The jacket only became contaminated with Lawrence's blood and hairs after it was stored right next to Lawrence's clothing in a storeroom. This was something that the defence mentioned during the trial, calling it shoddy and unprofessional, but I think it was just ignored. The reason why it took 18 years to jail Norris and Dobson over the crime was because they didn't do it.

he would have been a target by other members of his community. Stephen Lawrence was a known face who was making a name for himself for the wrong reasons.

I believe Lawrence was murdered by a rival gang member.

Oh, for God's sake.

Nodin

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Norris and Dobson are murderers. Its a mute point.
But Stephen Lawrence was no angel either. ........

You've a source for that?

El Weirdo

Batsy wrote: »

I believe Lawrence was murdered by a rival gang member.

Welcome back. Here's a quick refresher for you, in case you've forgotten:

El Weirdo wrote: »

What evidence (apart from the fact that he was black) do you have for Stephen Lawrence being in a gang?

El Weirdo wrote: »

*cough*

El Weirdo wrote: »

I'm going to ask you again for any evidence that Stephen Lawrence was involved in gangs.

Thanks.

biko wrote: »

Batsy, I need you to find some proof of Lawrence being in a gang and that this was gang related, otherwise it's just you trolling this thread, trying to make it into something it's not. Even if other black youths are in gangs doesn't mean Lawrence was in one.
Come back when you have said proof. Thx

Batsy

Originally Posted by biko
Batsy, I need you to find some proof of Lawrence being in a gang and that this was gang related, otherwise it's just you trolling this thread, trying to make it into something it's not. Even if other black youths are in gangs doesn't mean Lawrence was in one.
Come back when you have said proof. Thx
Originally Posted by biko
Batsy, I need you to find some proof of Lawrence being in a gang and that this was gang related, otherwise it's just you trolling this thread, trying to make it into something it's not. Even if other black youths are in gangs doesn't mean Lawrence was in one.
Come back when you have said proof. Thx

Originally Posted by biko
Batsy, I need you to find some proof of Lawrence being in a gang and that this was gang related, otherwise it's just you trolling this thread, trying to make it into something it's not. Even if other black youths are in gangs doesn't mean Lawrence was in one.
Come back when you have said proof. Thx

I'm fed up of having to repeat myself time and time again.

A black teenager stabbed to death on a London street is more likely to have been a member of a gang and to have been murdered by a rival gang member - who is usually also black - than to have been murdered by a "gang of racist white men."

Almost every black teenager murdered on London's streets today is a gang member killed by a fellow gang member, so it's reasonable to assume that Lawrence was a gang member killed by a fellow gang member. In fact, the police acknowledged this, too, and initially believed that Lawrence was in a gang and killed by a fellow gang member.

Nodin

Batsy wrote: »

......................


I'm fed up of having to repeat myself time and time again.
...................

Not half as "fed up" as we are reading it. Your opinion is not sufficient. Present some evidence from another party (eg some element of the police investigation or inquiry) regarding specifically the Lawrence murder.

Logical Fallacy

Batsy wrote: »

I'm fed up of having to repeat myself time and time again.

A black teenager stabbed to death on a London street is more likely to have been a member of a gang and to have been murdered by a rival gang member - who is usually also black - than to have been murdered by a "gang of racist white men."

Almost every black teenager murdered on London's streets today is a gang member killed by a fellow gang member, so it's reasonable to assume that Lawrence was a gang member killed by a fellow gang member. In fact, the police acknowledged this, too, and initially believed that Lawrence was in a gang and killed by a fellow gang member.

Thankfully police investigations and the subsequent court cases are normally more concerned with evidence rather than just making assumptions based of probability.

So once again, is there any evidence that implies Lawrence was in a gang, or stabbed by another black youth.

I will not dispute the fact that he was stabbed by another gang member as clearly he was....in this case a gang of white youths.

El Weirdo

Batsy wrote: »

Originally Posted by biko
Batsy, I need you to find some proof of Lawrence being in a gang and that this was gang related, otherwise it's just you trolling this thread, trying to make it into something it's not. Even if other black youths are in gangs doesn't mean Lawrence was in one.
Come back when you have said proof. Thx
Originally Posted by biko
Batsy, I need you to find some proof of Lawrence being in a gang and that this was gang related, otherwise it's just you trolling this thread, trying to make it into something it's not. Even if other black youths are in gangs doesn't mean Lawrence was in one.
Come back when you have said proof. Thx



I'm fed up of having to repeat myself time and time again.

A black teenager stabbed to death on a London street is more likely to have been a member of a gang and to have been murdered by a rival gang member - who is usually also black - than to have been murdered by a "gang of racist white men."

Almost every black teenager murdered on London's streets today is a gang member killed by a fellow gang member, so it's reasonable to assume that Lawrence was a gang member killed by a fellow gang member. In fact, the police acknowledged this, too, and initially believed that Lawrence was in a gang and killed by a fellow gang member.

Once again you provide zero evidence to back up your assertion that Stephan Lawrence was part of a gang.

You just continue to spout the same crap over and over again (also without providing any links to back your statistics up).

desertcircus

Batsy wrote: »

I'm fed up of having to repeat myself time and time again.

A black teenager stabbed to death on a London street is more likely to have been a member of a gang and to have been murdered by a rival gang member - who is usually also black - than to have been murdered by a "gang of racist white men."

Almost every black teenager murdered on London's streets today is a gang member killed by a fellow gang member, so it's reasonable to assume that Lawrence was a gang member killed by a fellow gang member. In fact, the police acknowledged this, too, and initially believed that Lawrence was in a gang and killed by a fellow gang member.

No, it's not reasonable. It's only reasonable if you have no data whatsoever and are looking at pure odds. Once you look at individual cases, the abstract probabilities vanish. There is no evidence he was in a gang. Therefore it's unreasonable to assume he was. Data applying to a broad group tells you little about a specific person. You might as well assume he was really a woman because women are over 50% of the population.

ejmaztec

Batsy wrote: »

I'm fed up of having to repeat myself time and time again.

You're not the only one fed up with your repeating yourself, join the club.:P

K-9

Batsy wrote: »

Originally Posted by biko
Batsy, I need you to find some proof of Lawrence being in a gang and that this was gang related, otherwise it's just you trolling this thread, trying to make it into something it's not. Even if other black youths are in gangs doesn't mean Lawrence was in one.
Come back when you have said proof. Thx
Originally Posted by biko
Batsy, I need you to find some proof of Lawrence being in a gang and that this was gang related, otherwise it's just you trolling this thread, trying to make it into something it's not. Even if other black youths are in gangs doesn't mean Lawrence was in one.
Come back when you have said proof. Thx



I'm fed up of having to repeat myself time and time again.

A black teenager stabbed to death on a London street is more likely to have been a member of a gang and to have been murdered by a rival gang member - who is usually also black - than to have been murdered by a "gang of racist white men."

Almost every black teenager murdered on London's streets today is a gang member killed by a fellow gang member, so it's reasonable to assume that Lawrence was a gang member killed by a fellow gang member. In fact, the police acknowledged this, too, and initially believed that Lawrence was in a gang and killed by a fellow gang member.

No it isn't a reasonable assumption because it lacks evidence.

It's amazing that you put such store in the evidence for Norris or Dobson and ignore it for Lawrence. Amazing double standard.

dr.bollocko

Aaaand batsy banned.

Again.

Johnny Foreigner

Some interesting information here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Stephen_Lawrence

marcsignal

policarp wrote: »

What's the odds?
If they aren't guilty they're complicit,
if you can believe the media. . .

I'm just speculating that, in time, Dobson and/or Norris will prove to be the thin end of the wedge, the police will use to get at the Acourt Brothers. They are the ones, in my opinion, the police really want to nail.


Just as regards the case in general, I'm looking at it purely from the point of view as a murder case, period. I'm not interested in whether Stephen Lawerence was black or white, or whether the gang were racists, or gay hairderssers.

As regards the theory that Lawerence was killed by another black gang member. I don't think it's plausible for the following reason. Would a rival black gang (or members of) be likely to be hanging around Eltham (an area known to be hostile to blacks) at that time of night ? and on the off chance they were going to run into Lawrence ? Not likely in my opinion.

As regards the gang not speaking about the Lawrence murder on the surveilance tape. There is a suggestion they were tipped off, that they were being watched/listened to. It's also also not unheard of, that a gang involved in a serious crime will agree to wipe it from their collective memory, deliberately, and agree also, never to speak about it again, for any reason. This is what the gang in the Helen Betty Osbourne case did, and were advised to do so by their Lawyer. They were told that 'their silence was their liberty'.

The suspects stories didn't match either, and in some cases directly contradicted each other.

That said, I am entirely speculating about a murder, that has similarities to another murder I have read about. That is all.
I'm not as interested in the 'Race' part of it, as some posters appear to be.

Nodin

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Some interesting information here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Stephen_Lawrence

What are you on about?

Earlier you stated

Norris and Dobson are murderers. Its a mute point.
But Stephen Lawrence was no angel either. ........

Do you have anything to back that up?

pragmatic1

Good news that the scumbags are behind bars. His poor parents must have been to hell and back.

ItsAWindUp

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Good news that the scumbags are behind bars. His poor parents must have been to hell and back.

Made even worse by certain muppets, like certain people in this thread, insinuating that he was a gangster, when there's no evidence to suggest that whatsoever.

Father Damo

Batsy wrote: »

Almost every black teenager murdered on London's streets today is a gang member killed by a fellow gang member,

Indeed. Today.

Probably because in working class areas of London there arent actually many young whites living there any more. Theyve all moved to Essex and such.

This happened 20 years ago. Seeing as they got so much stick for mishandling a racist murder the police would be delighted if it had turned out to be black lads who did it tbh. But wheres the proof? As woeful as the DNA evidence is the black gang theory has even less weight.

marcsignal

examining what i've been reading about the suspects, i can't help getting the feeling that stephen lawrences blackness was just extra bad luck. The past record of the gang give me the impression they weren't fussy, as long as there was agro, preferably when their scumbaggery and numbers allowed them the oppertunity to own the room.

charlemont

marcsignal wrote: »

examining what i've been reading about the suspects, i can't help getting the feeling that stephen lawrences blackness was just extra bad luck. The past record of the gang give me the impression they weren't fussy, as long as there was agro, preferably when their scumbaggery and numbers allowed them the oppertunity to own the room.

Well I agree with what you say about the gang but I reckon Stephen's colour on top of it probably provided the spark for their scummy actions.

marcsignal

charlemont wrote: »

Well I agree with what you say about the gang but I reckon Stephen's colour on top of it probably provided the spark for their scummy actions.

In the way it made him 'different to them' ?

yeah i agree

sunflower27

Documentary on the new evidence on BBC World now.