FTP - Functional Threshold Power....how big is yours!!

sconhome · 14-03-2013 11:47am

User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|298watts|278watts|4.08|320watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
pgibbo|232watts|279watts|3.9|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
Fazz|255 watts|300 watts|4.51|315 watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Lemond/Quarq
Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
BennyMul| 231 watts |255 watts |3.3|270watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
Bambaata|322 watts|319 watts|4|350watts|4.6|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
dx22|239 watts|287 watts|3.63|300watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
couerdelion|252 watts|299 watts|2.85|315 watts|3.50|T5+T20*.95|Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM
Briando|233 watts|233 watts|2.98|280 watts|3.58|T5+T20*.95|Power2Max
Amphkingwest|185 watts|211.85 watts|2.49|300 watts|3.79|T5+T20*.95|Polar / LOOK
duffyshuffle|272 watts|272 watts|2.81|325 watts|3.61|T5+T20*.95|PowerTap
slatanic|200 watts|200 watts|3.07| 227watts|3.5|T5+T20*.95|P2M
Tranche|211 watts|230 watts|3.42| 265watts|3.9|T5+T20*.95|P2M
El Director|287 watts|287 watts|3.7|300watts|4|T5+T20*.95|Quarq SRAM Red

Just to pull the table back into place with a slight 'improvement'.

slatanic · 03-04-2013 12:01pm

amphkingwest wrote: »

User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|298watts|278watts|4.08|320watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
pgibbo|232watts|279watts|3.9|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
Fazz|255 watts|300 watts|4.51|315 watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Lemond/Quarq
Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
BennyMul| 231 watts |255 watts |3.3|270watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
Bambaata|322 watts|319 watts|4|350watts|4.6|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
dx22|239 watts|287 watts|3.63|300watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
couerdelion|252 watts|299 watts|2.85|315 watts|3.50|T5+T20*.95|Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM
Briando|233 watts|233 watts|2.98|280 watts|3.58|T5+T20*.95|Power2Max
Amphkingwest|185 watts|211.85 watts|2.49|300 watts|3.79|T5+T20*.95|Polar / LOOK
duffyshuffle|272 watts|272 watts|2.81|325 watts|3.61|T5+T20*.95|PowerTap
slatanic|200 watts|218 watts|3.52| 230watts|3.7|T5+T20*.95|P2M
Tranche|211 watts|230 watts|3.42| 265watts|3.9|T5+T20*.95|P2M
El Director|287 watts|287 watts|3.7|300watts|4|T5+T20*.95|Quarq SRAM Red

couerdelion · 03-04-2013 4:22pm

User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|298watts|278watts|4.08|320watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
pgibbo|232watts|279watts|3.9|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
Fazz|255 watts|300 watts|4.51|315 watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Lemond/Quarq
Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
BennyMul| 231 watts |255 watts |3.3|270watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
Bambaata|322 watts|319 watts|4|350watts|4.6|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
dx22|239 watts|287 watts|3.63|300watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
couerdelion|252 watts|312 watts|3.00|315 watts|3.50|T5+T20*.95|Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM
Briando|233 watts|233 watts|2.98|280 watts|3.58|T5+T20*.95|Power2Max
Amphkingwest|185 watts|211.85 watts|2.49|300 watts|3.79|T5+T20*.95|Polar / LOOK
duffyshuffle|272 watts|272 watts|2.81|325 watts|3.61|T5+T20*.95|PowerTap
slatanic|200 watts|218 watts|3.52| 230watts|3.7|T5+T20*.95|P2M
Tranche|211 watts|230 watts|3.42| 265watts|3.9|T5+T20*.95|P2M
El Director|287 watts|287 watts|3.7|300watts|4|T5+T20*.95|Quarq SRAM Red

tunney · 22-04-2013 4:38pm

So now people have a few races in their legs - how do the results stack up against your FTP?

Have the assumptions in peoples testing been exposed?

sconhome · 22-04-2013 5:17pm

Testing again tomorrow. Racing next month will tell me all about it.

Tranche · 24-04-2013 12:38pm

All, asked a question of a member of this thread. Please see below my question and their reply. May be of interest to you. Comments welcomed.

******************************************************
Looking for some advise.

As the weather has heated up a little I have taken the TT bike off the turbo and started back training outside. When on the turbo my P2M PM consistently read my average lap power and normal lap power as very similar as my variability index was very low. But now I am out on the road and the introduction of hills and decents I am endeavoring to control the variability index and keep it below say 1.05 but inevitably normal lap power and average lap power differ slightly even when I tell the Garmin not to read zeros of average lap power.

For example, one of my recent sets was 10m w.u., 1h25 @ high intensity and 10m warm down. My high intensity (85%of FTP) based on my FTP is about 195 watts. My lap normal power for the high intensity interval was 195 but my average interval power was only 183 with a variability index of 1.08.

My question is, and I think I know the answer but just need to hear it, do I train off normal power or average power when outdoors. This will apply to my race too.

Thanks,

Tranche

********************************************************
(Reply)

Which P2M version do you have? The one with the temperature sensor or not?

Power on the road is much harder to control than on the turbo. Variables like wind, gradient, road surface all factor in massively.

Firstly Garmins should be set to include zeros. NZAP (or Non Zero Average Power) is, in my opinion, useless. Use ZAP (or Zeroed Average Power)

I don't personally train or race off VI. I have a wattage range and I aim to stay with in it. I don't, and would recommend against, racing off NP or AP. I'll explain why.

Say I think I can hold 270 for a 40km TT. I'll target 260-280 as the range to hold. Lets say the first 10km is downhill and I cannot hold this on the descent (and shouldn't given the cube function that is power to speed, much better off soft pedalling over 40-50kph). After 10km my AP is 180. If I was racing by AP, I'd have to put a mammoth effort in to get the numbers up to 270 for the end. While NP does weight the calculation in favour of the higher wattages (its the quad root of the avarege of the wattages when raised to the power of four) it would still mean riding above 270 to get back to close to an NP of 270.

So what I do is if I have a range what I like to see any time I look at the power meter is power somewhere in 260-280. Then I can be pretty sure that I'll have a well paced bike split. If the course has serious descents there will be periods below this range, and likewise serious ascents then there will be periods above this range.

Something like a moving 10-30 second average is good too if your unit displays it, this in conjunction with instantaneous (or 3s) power is good.

NP, AP, VI and the rest are nice tools for post race/training analysis.

pgibbo · 24-04-2013 2:18pm

I work off 3s power all the time. I saw that Jordan Rapp uses it and hence started using it myself. I do have the secondary screens configured as per his recommendation also but I don't tend to use them.

I basically try to control my 3s output. Last night was the first time that I felt I did a good job of it but I'll probably be back to square one at the weekend.

sconhome · 24-04-2013 2:30pm

P is that a measure rate of 3s or display rate? Presumably configured on separate screens?

I'm guessing from the reply ^^ that Joe Friels, 50-40-30-20-10 rule is the best to apply when pacing a race.

tunney · 24-04-2013 2:31pm

amphkingwest wrote: »

P is that a measure rate of 3s or display rate? Presumably configured on separate screens?

I'm guessing from the reply ^^ that Joe Friels, 50-40-30-20-10 rule is the best to apply when pacing a race.

A rolling 3 second average that's displayed on the decent head units. Recording rate is not affected by it. Not sure polar has it

sconhome · 24-04-2013 2:52pm

tunney wrote: »

A rolling 3 second average that's displayed on the decent head units. Recording rate is not affected by it. Not sure polar has it

pgibbo · 24-04-2013 2:53pm

amphkingwest wrote: »

P is that a measure rate of 3s or display rate? Presumably configured on separate screens?

I'm guessing from the reply ^^ that Joe Friels, 50-40-30-20-10 rule is the best to apply when pacing a race.

As tunney said - http://www.tramsoft.ch/downloads/garmin/manuals/garmin_edge500/edge500_owners-manual_en.pdf

The three-second moving average of power output.

Have you a link to Friels rule? I'm not familiar with it.

sconhome · 24-04-2013 3:07pm

pgibbo wrote: »

Have you a link to Friels rule? I'm not familiar with it.

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2010/08/coast-or-pedal-on-a-downhill.html#

Came across it in that new PM book. Good guide based on your race zone off measured FTP so it is relative to your expected steady state power in the race.

I'll pic the pages from the book with the little graph.

sconhome · 24-04-2013 3:08pm

pgibbo wrote: »

As tunney said - http://www.tramsoft.ch/downloads/garmin/manuals/garmin_edge500/edge500_owners-manual_en.pdf

64 pages of a manual!! No wonder his eyes are fogging!!

sconhome · 24-04-2013 3:13pm

tunney wrote: »

A rolling 3 second average that's displayed on the decent head units. Recording rate is not affected by it. Not sure polar has it

pgibbo wrote: »

The three-second moving average of power output.

Graphs on Page 14. Change one graph view to Power, and record rate to 1s. Same thing except 4 years older :cool:

PS sorry about the 64 page jab, Polar 56

tunney · 24-04-2013 3:18pm

amphkingwest wrote: »

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2010/08/coast-or-pedal-on-a-downhill.html#

Came across it in that new PM book. Good guide based on your race zone off measured FTP so it is relative to your expected steady state power in the race.

I'll pic the pages from the book with the little graph.

That book is god awful. Aoibhe appreciates it though, she reads it when on the toilet. Only person in the house who will. (Eoin tries to flush it, probably should let him).

Disagree with over 50kph though. Never coast, learnt that when I was 12 and doing some MTBing, legs seize up if coasting for decent periods, especially if cold or wet.

tunney · 24-04-2013 3:20pm

amphkingwest wrote: »

Graphs on Page 14. Change one graph view to Power, and record rate to 1s. Same thing except 4 years older :cool:

PS sorry about the 64 page jab, Polar 56

I would have thought the polar would be alot shorter - given the lack of features. Forgot being nice.

sconhome · 24-04-2013 3:29pm

tunney wrote: »

I would have thought the polar would be alot shorter - given the lack of features. Forgot being nice.

Must be all the warranty stuff in the Garmin :P

pgibbo · 24-04-2013 4:39pm

Curiosity got the better of me:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3941788;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=-1;

Post #49 is the relevant one

Fazz · 24-05-2013 10:27pm

tunney wrote: »

So now people have a few races in their legs - how do the results stack up against your FTP?

Have the assumptions in peoples testing been exposed?

After Race 1 I'm happy to say results stack up strong showing progress over last FTP test and more importantly over 10% improvement (in watts/kg, under 10% in actual watts so far) over last 70.3 bike 6 months ago.
Now the hard part to try eek out another few % during the season.
On a plus side, I'm close to or just over/under my target watts/kg for this season. Hopefully look to improve slightly in next 70.3 to have another marker.

The real interesting part, will be seeing how close to FTP I can try hold watts for in Kilkee. Not what I've been training but I've a month or so to work on it so who knows.

tunney · 27-05-2013 12:00pm

Quoting a quote means no one can use your table and it it will get lost @slatanic

slatanic · 27-05-2013 12:02pm

tunney wrote: »

Quoting a quote means no one can use your table and it it will get lost @slatanic

Sorry, I didnt realise. I will delete post & try again.

slatanic · 27-05-2013 12:05pm

User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|298watts|278watts|4.08|320watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
pgibbo|232watts|279watts|3.9|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
Fazz|255 watts|300 watts|4.51|315 watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Lemond/Quarq
Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
BennyMul| 253 watts |231 watts |3.3|270watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
Bambaata|322 watts|319 watts|4|350watts|4.6|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
dx22|239 watts|287 watts|3.63|300watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
couerdelion|252 watts|299 watts|2.85|315 watts|3.50|T5+T20*.95|Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM
Briando|233 watts|233 watts|2.98|280 watts|3.58|T5+T20*.95|Power2Max
Amphkingwest|185 watts|203.3 watts|2.36|300 watts|3.79|T5+T20*.95|Polar / LOOK
duffyshuffle|272 watts|272 watts|2.81|325 watts|3.61|T5+T20*.95|PowerTap
slatanic|200 watts|223 watts|3.76| 230watts|3.9|T5+T20*.95|P2M
Tranche|211 watts|211 watts|3.11| 265watts|3.9|T5+T20*.95|P2M

sconhome · 05-06-2013 9:31pm

User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|298watts|278watts|4.08|320watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
pgibbo|232watts|279watts|3.9|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
Fazz|255 watts|300 watts|4.51|315 watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Lemond/Quarq
Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
BennyMul| 253 watts |231 watts |3.3|270watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
Bambaata|322 watts|319 watts|4|350watts|4.6|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
dx22|239 watts|287 watts|3.63|300watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
couerdelion|252 watts|299 watts|2.85|315 watts|3.50|T5+T20*.95|Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM
Briando|233 watts|233 watts|2.98|280 watts|3.58|T5+T20*.95|Power2Max
Amphkingwest|185 watts|235.6 watts|2.78|300 watts|3.79|T5+T20*.95|Polar / LOOK
duffyshuffle|272 watts|272 watts|2.81|325 watts|3.61|T5+T20*.95|PowerTap
slatanic|200 watts|223 watts|3.76| 230watts|3.9|T5+T20*.95|P2M
Tranche|211 watts|211 watts|3.11| 265watts|3.9|T5+T20*.95|P2M

Still way behind on the w/kg but am happy with the way this is all shaping up

Now if I lost a few kg's I'd see a bit difference on the road.

slatanic · 06-06-2013 8:43am

User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Jackyback|298watts|278watts|4.08|320watts|5.00|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
NWM2|285watts|327watts|3.9|310watts|3.7|40k TT|Powertap SL+
pgibbo|232watts|279watts|3.9|300watts|4.35|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
Fazz|255 watts|300 watts|4.51|315 watts|4.75|T5+T20*0.95|Lemond/Quarq
Nerraw|216 watts|216 watts|3.33|280 watts|4.3|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
shotgunmcos|318 watts|325 watts|4.23|330watts|4.4|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
RedB|230 watts|230 watts|2.55|290 watts|3.5|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
BennyMul| 253 watts |231 watts |3.3|270watts|4|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap SL2+
Bobblehead_jr|345 watts|345 watts|4.9|390 watts|5.6|T5+T20*0.95| iBike iPro
Macanri|237 watts|237 watts|3.22|?280watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow T2200
Bambaata|322 watts|319 watts|4|350watts|4.6|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max PM
dx22|239 watts|287 watts|3.63|300watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
d4r3n|189 watts|210 watts|3.68|240 watts|4.0|T5+T20*0.95|Powertap
couerdelion|252 watts|299 watts|2.85|315 watts|3.50|T5+T20*.95|Cycleops Magneto + Trainer Road
bryangiggsy|221 watts|253 watts|3.24|290 watts|3.84|T5+T20*.95|SRM
Briando|233 watts|233 watts|2.98|280 watts|3.58|T5+T20*.95|Power2Max
Amphkingwest|185 watts|235.6 watts|2.78|300 watts|3.79|T5+T20*.95|Polar / LOOK
duffyshuffle|272 watts|272 watts|2.81|325 watts|3.61|T5+T20*.95|PowerTap
slatanic|200 watts|238 watts|4.01| 250watts|4.2|T5+T20*.95|P2M
Tranche|211 watts|211 watts|3.11| 265watts|3.9|T5+T20*.95|P2M

Doing club TT's over the last month is paying off.

pgibbo · 18-06-2013 8:42am

Has anyone done their test on the road or does everyone do them on the turbo?

I have a test coming up and with the good weather I'm tempted to try it outdoors. Thoughts?

slatanic · 18-06-2013 8:45am

I did my last one on the road & found it much easier (If that's the word) than the garage. Easier to concentrate on maintaining an effort & nicer in the fresh air.

Bambaata · 18-06-2013 9:28am

pgibbo wrote: »

Has anyone done their test on the road or does everyone do them on the turbo?

I have a test coming up and with the good weather I'm tempted to try it outdoors. Thoughts?

Never done it formally outdoors but i would expect turbo to be slightly higher given there is zero freewheeling. I did 340 for 30mins last Saturday on the road so thats probably my nearest "FTP" test outdoors. Reckon im at about 330-335 now as that wasnt done 100%

hf4z6sqo7vjngi · 18-06-2013 9:59am

pgibbo wrote: »

Has anyone done their test on the road or does everyone do them on the turbo?

I have a test coming up and with the good weather I'm tempted to try it outdoors. Thoughts?

I would always do on the turbo tbh as its repeatable and in controlled conditions for comparing against previous testing. Freewheeling and other idiots on the road could impact testing outdoors.

mloc123 · 18-06-2013 10:32am

Generally when I peel myself off the bike after 20mins I am in no condition to be on a road..

Bambaata · 18-06-2013 10:42am

Thats a good point by mloc. I generally have to lie down for 2 to 3 mins after an FTP as i physically cannot sit on the bike any longer as i feel sick, dizzy and would fall off if i stayed on it! I cant imagine doing that outdoors. I generally lie on the couch for 2 or 3 mins and then get into a cool-down