Racist Ireland

cloptrop

Nodin wrote: »

Didn't look that hard then.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/jobseekers_benefit.html

Just cause its not called unemployment benefit doesnt mean they dont come off the boat and get paid straight away. Even people waiting for assylum get paid and as far as I know they still arnt allowed to work until they get okd for asylum.This may have changed in the last 10 years though.
If you honestly think someone from poland would be refused payment because they arnt paying long enough your quite niaeve. As if the goverment would just let someone starve.

Nodin

cloptrop wrote: »

Just cause its not called unemployment benefit doesnt mean they dont come off the boat and get paid straight away.

......they don't get paid.

cloptrop wrote: »

Even people waiting for assylum get paid and as far as I know they still arnt allowed to work until they get okd for asylum.This may have changed in the last 10 years though.
.

19 Euro a week.

cloptrop

Nodin wrote: »

......they don't get paid.




19 Euro a week.

Do they sleep rough , have to pay bills ?
You mean they get 19 euro a week disposable.

Nodin

cloptrop wrote: »

Do they sleep rough , have to pay bills ?
You mean they get 19 euro a week disposable.

...a whole 19 Euro. A veritable fucking fortune.

tigger123

gerryo777 wrote: »

I'm not as well versed on the ins and outs of the benefit system as you ...

But unfortunately it doesn't stop ya spouting misinformed nonsense all over the interwebs.

cloptrop

Nodin wrote: »

...a whole 19 Euro. A veritable fucking fortune.

This is just asylum seekers that get this , eu people get full amount. And 19 euro disposable is pretty much what i have these days.

Nodin

cloptrop wrote: »

This is just asylum seekers that get this , eu people get full amount. ........

You can't arrive and claim. I've linked to the relevant sites that show this. If you want to say different, please provide some back up.

cloptrop

Nodin wrote: »

You can't arrive and claim. I've linked to the relevant sites that show this. If you want to say different, please provide some back up.

What happens to people who arrive from the eu with no money and no plane fare home, are they told to starve?

Nodin

cloptrop wrote: »

What happens to people who arrive from the eu with no money and no plane fare home, are they told to starve?

I've no idea. However they aren't entitled to anything. As I said, I've backed up my side.....

#15

cloptrop wrote: »

Do they sleep rough , have to pay bills ?
You mean they get 19 euro a week disposable.

Disposable, ffs.

we'llallhavetea_old

A client was in today (a real miserable cnut this one) and I was saying how awful that story about the girl in the suitcase was. she agreed and said "well, they were black... " I said "oh right..?" she said, "they've no respect for human life really" :eek:
I just stared her down and said "who? murderers?" she just mumbled yeah.
i really just wish I called her a fcuking retard.

K-9

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

A client was in today (a real miserable cnut this one) and I was saying how awful that story about the girl in the suitcase was. she agreed and said "well, they were black... " I said "oh right..?" she said, "they've no respect for human life really" :eek:
I just stared her down and said "who? murderers?" she just mumbled yeah.
i really just wish I called her a fcuking retard.

That's the voice of the people you hear sooo much about on Boards.ie, the silent majority.

Blazing Saddles is recommended viewing for them.

cloptrop

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

A client was in today (a real miserable cnut this one) and I was saying how awful that story about the girl in the suitcase was. she agreed and said "well, they were black... " I said "oh right..?" she said, "they've no respect for human life really" :eek:
I just stared her down and said "who? murderers?" she just mumbled yeah.
i really just wish I called her a fcuking retard.

So have we accepted a black man killed her? Thats racist

randylonghorn

K-9 wrote: »

That's the voice of the people you hear sooo much about on Boards.ie, the silent majority.

In fairness, I'd be more inclined to say the not-so-silent minority ...

A larger minority these days than I would like, though.

Jimbob 83

Im not even remotely racist and i don't get Black taxi drivers because i have had afew bad experiences, 2-3 times after having a bad experience i have gotten into a African taxi driver and i always ended up regretting it.

Let me run you through my last experience.

Eyre Square Galway around 1-1.30am hop in to the taxi give him a rough indication of where we are going.

Now at this stage with an Irish driver we would casually bitch about this and that fair enough but instead this guy takes a call to his brother/cousin w/e and they proceed to talk the native lingo so i do the whole looking out the window bit no bother that's fine.

Then he get's off the phone and starts to asking me questions like he is interested but as soon as he is finished asking doesn't seem interested(im hardly rambling just giving polite answers) and i found this extremely rude, he then goes on to tell me how he thinks all Irish people are lazy and thats why so many are unemployed and we demand to much pay compared to his homeland and puts on Buffalo soldier on max volume for the last few miles of the journey.

Then here we come to it im outside the gaff and he takes 40e 2x 20's off me for the 26 euro fare and makes no move to give me change(he can clearly see from the journey im a young man who isn't exactly loaded and i was unemployed at the time which came up in conversation)

I dunno it just left me feeling cold, if you want to be distant and cold thats fine dont ask questions and sneer at the answers like you couldn't give a ****e and then try and overcharge me.

I would be the same if it was an Irish person, but it is never the case and im sure im not the only one to have experienced this.

Millicent

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Im not even remotely racist and i don't get Black taxi drivers because i have had afew bad experiences, 2-3 times after having a bad experience i have gotten into a African taxi driver and i always ended up regretting it.

Let me run you through my last experience.

Eyre Square Galway around 1-1.30am hop in to the taxi give him a rough indication of where we are going.

Now at this stage with an Irish driver we would casually bitch about this and that fair enough but instead this guy takes a call to his brother/cousin w/e and they proceed to talk the native lingo so i do the whole looking out the window bit no bother that's fine.

Then he get's off the phone and starts to asking me questions like he is interested but as soon as he is finished asking doesn't seem interested(im hardly rambling just giving polite answers) and i found this extremely rude, he then goes on to tell me how he thinks all Irish people are lazy and thats why so many are unemployed and we demand to much pay compared to his homeland and puts on Buffalo soldier on max volume for the last few miles of the journey.

Then here we come to it im outside the gaff and he takes 40e 2x 20's off me for the 26 euro fare and makes no move to give me change(he can clearly see from the journey im a young man who isn't exactly loaded and i was unemployed at the time which came up in conversation)

I dunno it just left me feeling cold, if you want to be distant and cold thats fine dont ask questions and sneer at the answers like you couldn't give a ****e and then try and overcharge me.

I would be the same if it was an Irish person, but it is never the case and im sure im not the only one to have experienced this.

The plural of anecdote is not data. That guy just sounds like a tit to be honest.

Lanaier

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Im not even remotely racist and i don't get Black taxi drivers because i have had afew bad experiences, 2-3 times after having a bad experience i have gotten into a African taxi driver and i always ended up regretting it.

Let me run you through my last experience.

Eyre Square Galway around 1-1.30am hop in to the taxi give him a rough indication of where we are going.

Now at this stage with an Irish driver we would casually bitch about this and that fair enough but instead this guy takes a call to his brother/cousin w/e and they proceed to talk the native lingo so i do the whole looking out the window bit no bother that's fine.

Then he get's off the phone and starts to asking me questions like he is interested but as soon as he is finished asking doesn't seem interested(im hardly rambling just giving polite answers) and i found this extremely rude, he then goes on to tell me how he thinks all Irish people are lazy and thats why so many are unemployed and we demand to much pay compared to his homeland and puts on Buffalo soldier on max volume for the last few miles of the journey.

Then here we come to it im outside the gaff and he takes 40e 2x 20's off me for the 26 euro fare and makes no move to give me change(he can clearly see from the journey im a young man who isn't exactly loaded and i was unemployed at the time which came up in conversation)

I dunno it just left me feeling cold, if you want to be distant and cold thats fine dont ask questions and sneer at the answers like you couldn't give a ****e and then try and overcharge me.

I would be the same if it was an Irish person, but it is never the case and im sure im not the only one to have experienced this.

...and?

That's really why you don't get black drivers anymore?

He;
A) didn't ask whatever the prerequisite minimum number of questions a taxi driver is supposed to ask about your life.

gave you a "cold feeling" when trying to rip you off?

Did you get your change?

El Weirdo

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Im not even remotely racist and but...

FYP

Annasopra

cloptrop wrote: »

Just cause its not called unemployment benefit doesnt mean they dont come off the boat and get paid straight away. Even people waiting for assylum get paid and as far as I know they still arnt allowed to work until they get okd for asylum.This may have changed in the last 10 years though.
If you honestly think someone from poland would be refused payment because they arnt paying long enough your quite niaeve. As if the goverment would just let someone starve.

Please educate yourself on the habitual residence condition. It might make you a little less ignorant.

maryk123

the habitual residence covers a wide amount of areas and can be perceived in different ways but its hard enough to get paid having lived in ireland and moved abroad and returned again so i cant see how people still believe that people flying in receive everything straight away it just doesnt happen.
asylum seekers do receive payment straight away 19.10 but their meals are paid for and their accommodation is paid for, they get clothing allowance twice a year they get travel to their solicitors about their case and get paid for other appointments around the country. it may not be money into their hand but they are getting it in other ways. not saying this is right or wrong but there is a difference from someone else flying in and applying and getting nothing straight away.

fishy fishy

going back to the original post theme, does anyone know how much a taxi driver would received if he had to give up taxi-ing due to sickness, retirement, etc?

maryk123

fishy fish go in and claim and bring everything with you bank statements, visa bills, mortgage bring the lot and see what happens - nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Nodin

fishy fishy wrote: »

going back to the original post theme, does anyone know how much a taxi driver would received if he had to give up taxi-ing due to sickness, retirement, etc?

If he's self employed, not a bean, as far as I know.

fishy fishy

Nodin wrote: »

If he's self employed, not a bean, as far as I know.

correct!

maryk123

not true - appeal appeal appeal

old hippy

gerryo777 wrote: »

So it's not a 'waltz', but it can still be done.
BTW, I employed people from at least 6 different countries, of all colours and creeds and never had a problem with anyone, so if anyone one here wants to think of me as racist well their sadly mistaken.

Yeah yeah yeah... the old "some of my best friends are..." schtick. :rolleyes:

fishy fishy

maryk123 wrote: »

not true - appeal appeal appeal

Mary, go in and claim and bring everything with you bank statements, visa bills, mortgage bring the lot and see what happens to your "appeal" :rolleyes:

walrusgumble

cloptrop wrote: »

What happens to people who arrive from the eu with no money and no plane fare home, are they told to starve?

Claim they are Job Seekers, be seen to be job seekers, and they may be entitled to some sort of social assistance, like job seekers allowance. Other than that, they are not, after 3 months, exercising their EU rights, and until they do, A State is not obliged to provide welfare to them (Article 24.2 of Directive 2004/38EC), unless they are job seekers. If they are not legitimately looking for work, or with considerable evidence/suspicion considered welfare tourists, welfare can be refused.

THose who are already here, and worked but lost their jobs, might be able to retain their workers status and continue with welfare (numerous ways to do it). It is somewhat a grey area in the sense that they can not be technically exercising their EU rights after only working 1 year or less but lived here for 3-4 years. However, an EU citizen can't be removed for economic reasons, but technically an eu citizen can be removed. It is a matter somewhat ignored by ECJ, until now (Prime example expulsion of gypsies from Romania)

gcgirl

walrusgumble wrote: »

cloptrop wrote: »

What happens to people who arrive from the eu with no money and no plane fare home, are they told to starve?

Claim they are Job Seekers, be seen to be job seekers, and they may be entitled to some sort of social assistance, like job seekers allowance. Other than that, they are not, after 3 months, exercising their EU rights, and until they do, A State is not obliged to provide welfare to them, unless they are job seekers.

They are intitled to zero they have to have 2 years worth of stamps in order to claim anything

walrusgumble

gcgirl wrote: »

They are intitled to zero they have to have 2 years worth of stamps in order to claim anything

Do not comment on areas that you know nothing about, unless you want to come across as an idiot. At least clarify what I am talking about first before going feet deep. I thought girls were better equipped to do that. Would have helped if you pointed out where you got that basis, which, I fully concede, is partially correct.

On a side note, 2 years of stamps? EU citizens? Really. Although they are suppose to let INIS and GNIB know that they are in Ireland, they are not obliged/mandatory to register with them. No EU Citizen is going to have their passports stamped, so how are you going to prove that?

Your correct that such EU citizens (not working) would not / may not (depends if were they fall in the EU legislation) get the full entitlements, but they are fully entitlement to a payment if they are looking for work, irrespective of when they came into the country, as we are if we were in their country. Maybe I got the term "allowance" or "benefit" wrong, but they are entitled to some "social Assistance" equivalent to what Irish citizens and residents get.

Read these EU law cases:

Collins v UK
THe Collins case, he failed, and rightly so (Irish man , unemployed in the UK for 17 years - the irony), he was taking the piss, but read the judgment

http://www.cpag.org.uk/campaigns/press230304.htm

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2004/04/feature/eu0404206f.htm
Case C-138/02, Brian Francis Collins v Secretary of State for Work and Pensions

Full Judgment of the said case: http://csdle.lex.unict.it/Archive/LW/EU%20social%20law/EU%20case-law/Judgments/20111222-115314_C_138_02enpdf.pdf

The recent pronouncement of that Collins case, and more relevant to my argument, is Vatsourous

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/eu/cases/EUECJ/2009/C2208.html&query=Vatsouras&method=boolean

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/eu/cases/EUECJ/2009/C2208_O.html&query=Collins&method=boolean

Point in being, as a job seeker, you may still be considered as a worker (something acknowledged in a case in 1992 - in the above cases, ECJ talks about welfare entitlements, if any)
What they would get, would not be great and they will have to extensively prove that they are out looking. The status is for a limited time only, but a limit has never really being set by the ECJ/CJEU

People who only came in now, would be cast with suspicion and considered social welfare tourists, bit provided they tick the boxes, the residency requirements are irrelevant, a point (very small one mind) that you are incorrect on.

Nodin

walrusgumble wrote: »

Do not comment(.............)are incorrect on.

And can you show where thats reflected in Irish legislation?

K-9

Nodin wrote: »

If he's self employed, not a bean, as far as I know.

Seems it depends. I know a couple of lads who were self-employed carpenters, definitely got payments when things went pear shaped.

walrusgumble

Nodin wrote: »

And can you show where thats reflected in Irish legislation?

Your serious right?

You are telling me that you think that Irish Legislation can ignore an fundamental element of EU law. I know that girl who liked your post (who then says **** all but hide behinds a man thereafter) is a believes in any auld muck, I know that you were beginning to take the piss in other threads (You are normally one of the better ones on this site - that could argue and point to facts and sources), but you really think that Welfare department could carry on as normal and disregard those two judgments?

You realise that Ireland would/are be violating EU law, if they ignored that.
You realise that Article 234 TFEU cases are binding on all of EU and not just the Member States in question. Whatever is the equivalent to the Irish, EU people may be able to get (may)


THose judgments (and this is a very very important factor to note and remind yourself) provide that these type of payment for jobseekers is, oddly, not considered as "social assistance" (how they came up with that wishy washy notion is another matter -read the judgments - if you had, you would not have an issue with what was said)

I will make it easier for you and provide you with the content from the relevant Governmental Website. The social welfare that I refer to (just confirmed) is jobseekers allowance.

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Policy/EU/Pages/OtherEUorEEA.aspx

"A briefer explaination referring specifically to the relevant forms for persons moving between EU countries, and information for posted workers is contained in the Social Insurance and EC Regulations section of the website.

There are no nationality conditions attached to Irish social insurance or social assistance schemes. However, a habitual residence condition applies for certain social assistance schemes and for child benefit."

Let us stop there. THat paragraph, the poster was correct on what she did say regarding Habitual Residency. But note the word "certain" social assistance schemes.

Moving forward

" Where a person is working in Ireland since coming from an EU or EEA country, this condition does not apply for Child Benefit, One-Parent Family Payment or in certain circumstances for Supplementary Welfare Allowance. See Habitual Residence for more detail."

Again, the term "certain". Not all, not carte blanche

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Policy/EU/Pages/SocInsandECReg.aspx
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/Pages/habres.aspx#sect3
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/Pages/habres.aspx#sect7

Relevant Legislation, Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 - Sections 140-141; Section 141 is a start. (conditions for jobseekers allowance)

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Pages/jajbfaq.aspx#q4
Jobseeker's Allowance (JA)
"JA is a means-tested payment made to people who are unemployed and who do not qualify for Jobseeker's Benefit or whose entitlement to Jobseeker's Benefit has expired.

Jobseeker's Benefit or Jobseeker's Allowance is payable in respect of any week of unemployment if you meet the qualifying conditions. You must be unemployed for 3 days in a period of 6 consecutive days. Sunday is not treated as a day of unemployment and is disregarded in computing any period of consecutive days."

Note on conditions for Jobseekers Allowance. Not much to be said regarding Habitual residence. But you do need to show a genuine link to the country and effort to find work!
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/JobseekerSupports/JobseekersAllowance/Pages/ja.aspx

Conditions are set out in the Collins & Vatsouras cases.

Jimbob 83

Lanaier wrote: »

...and?

That's really why you don't get black drivers anymore?

He;
A) didn't ask whatever the prerequisite minimum number of questions a taxi driver is supposed to ask about your life.

gave you a "cold feeling" when trying to rip you off?

Did you get your change?

Yes why should i ?

I gave my reasons above and as i said at the start its like the 6th time and im sick of it, so i should settle for an inferior service just to be PC ?

As for El Weirdo misquoting me w/e im sure it got you some +thanks and made you look like a real comedian but i just came here to relay an experience, just because it doesn't suit the PC masses people get pissy.

Us Irish are a nice and friendly people and we let alot slide, when i am paying my hard earned for a service i will choose somsone i can relate to over someone that comes across as ill mannered and arrogant regardless of skin colour, unfortunately it seems for most African native taxi drivers to be a very accurate indication.

RichieC

Haha..seen the name jimbob in here and correctly guessed a racsist!! which is ironic because it was sort of a biggoted assumption :pac:

patthebus

Parents who want their kids home safe after a night out are not racist they are parents who realise that most non nationals are un vetted and not licensed

Jimbob 83

RichieC wrote: »

Haha..seen the name jimbob in here and correctly guessed a racsist!! which is ironic because it was sort of a biggoted assumption :pac:

When, quotations would be nice ?

#15

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Us Irish are a nice and friendly people and we let alot slide, when i am paying my hard earned for a service i will choose somsone i can relate to over someone that comes across as ill mannered and arrogant regardless of skin colour,

Someone you can relate to?

How do you know you can relate to them before you get into the taxi?

Jimbob 83

#15 wrote: »

Someone you can relate to?

How do you know you can relate to them before you get into the taxi?

Prior experience, as i said i have gotten central african taxi drivers many times before as i was in a job that required it and i have had taxi drivers from all over the world, most regardless of race are professional and friendly.

Reputations are earned, if i had to get a taxi again and there was a black man/woman driving i would probably hop in and give the benifit of the doubt.
Most PC'r don't have a clue anyway as they get the bus the cheapo's :pac:

Nodin

walrusgumble wrote: »

Your serious right?

You are telling me that you think that Irish Legislation can ignore an fundamental element of EU law..

This is the country thats been evading a judgement of its own supreme court for roughly 22 years. Its now putting off a EU judgment in relation to that judgement.

walrusgumble wrote: »

There are no nationality conditions attached (......) Vatsouras cases.

Thats your reading of it.

Is there some reaction from the Irish state in regard to those judgements? Is there somewhere where their consequences are explained in the Dail?

patthebus

Pdfile wrote: »

Leftist wrote: »

Shocked by this post as it is actually sensible.

I got a hungarian taxi driver once around Merrion Square last year, he was absolutely bang on.

I also hated taking white Dublin taxi drivers. Half way through their rant I would say my wife is eastern european/african and their whole rant put on the brakes. oh yeah but this and no but that's family etc.

Scum.

indeed, i got one who hated eastern europeans so i started speaking broken polish and he shat himself....

on the flip side ive gotten polish taxi drivers who where sound, beyond sound if anything...


the irish taxi mans days are numbered thank fcuk.

Seems you want the Irish out of Ireland

Lanaier

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Im not even remotely racist and i don't get Black taxi drivers because i have had afew bad experiences, 2-3 times after having a bad experience i have gotten into a African taxi driver and i always ended up regretting it.

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Yes why should i ?

I gave my reasons above and as i said at the start its like the 6th time and im sick of it

Ah yeah :pac:

Next it'll be 20 times, and he had knives and pet hyenas, and LIONS!! and everything!!

Lanaier

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Yes why should i ?

Considering you still haven't clarified about the change I'm assuming you got it despite the cold, Heart Of Darkness "feeling" he gave you.

Look, I'm not saying it would be totally wrong to avoid some people based on experiences....the problem I have is that the worst experience you could come up with seems to be that you were a little intimidated.

That sounds terrible, are you ok?
:P

LighterGuy

Am I the only one in thinking there are actually more people who believe there is more racism in Ireland ... Compared to actual racists in Ireland?

(short answer: people thinking more racists out there than what there actual is :pac:)

Lanaier

LighterGuy wrote: »

Am I the only one in thinking there are actually more people who believe there is more racism in Ireland ... Compared to actual racists in Ireland?

(short answer: people thinking more racists out there than what there actual is :pac:)

I hope you're right.

Actually I'm a little surprised by some of the comments on this forum, perhaps having been away for so long had deluded me into thinking Irish people were mostly beyond this sort of thing.

walrusgumble

Nodin wrote: »

This is the country thats been evading a judgement of its own supreme court for roughly 22 years. Its now putting off a EU judgment in relation to that judgement.

Which Supreme Court Judgment do you refer to? 1990 ? This on tax and social welfare issues?

Yes, Ireland does also have a habit of ignoring EU law, but, only knee jerkers would have come out with the response that you made to ignore basic law (which I know that you know). I would be slow to suggest that you are on of those. Secondly, the Commission would be quicker to put them in line

People (Irish and EU) should really review their refusals for social carefully, because there is a bit of a knee jerker regarding "habitual residency" (re different payments)

Nodin wrote: »

Thats your reading of it.

Is there some reaction from the Irish state in regard to those judgements? Is there somewhere where their consequences are explained in the Dail?

It does not matter one iota what the Dáil think. (They are suppose to have regard for the Constitution when legislating as per Article 15, yet you rarely hear a discussion for more than 5 minutes regarding the implications of legislation on Constitutional rights) It is not my reading of it. It is the reading as explained by the CJEU. The fact that legislation did not put any obstacles in the way, suggests they knew about it. The same probably can't be said for our esteemed members in the dole office. No doubt, most of our Dáil boys never heard of these cases.

I am only discussing Job Seekers Allowance not the other payments (where that poster would have been correct). People have an issue with it with social and get refused, go to court. (It is means tested of course)

Have a gawk through that
http://euce.org/eusa/2011/papers/8d_wollenschlaeger.pdf

If you can, get someone's subscription to sites like Lexis Nexis or other pre paid Law sites, and get onto Law Journals on EU law. (maybe a really good library has some stock/access). At best bet, maybe googling will pick you some stuff. THe books to read (easier to get) but not too much to say on it, are EU law books by De Burca and Craig and then Chalmers. (Illac SC would have them)

Now, don't get me wrong, there has been a few step backs on social welfare issues lately by the Court, ie in area of Students. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next while.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/8798443/Brussels-poses-serious-threat-to-our-welfare-reforms.html

greimorm

While its awful people get attacked and their race used against them in such situations.Mountain mole hills this thread says to me.
Ireland is the least racist country in world for now anyway.

old hippy

patthebus wrote: »

Parents who want their kids home safe after a night out are not racist they are parents who realise that most non nationals are un vetted and not licensed

Yeah because no white Irish taxi drivers would assault anyone :rolleyes:

old hippy

patthebus wrote: »

Seems you want the Irish out of Ireland

Only the racist ones. Nobody would miss ye.

ste551

Maybe its a good thing kicking out a few black taxi men outta the country, just dont let them keep the cars that social welfare give them for free