Racist Ireland

Leftist

fishy fishy wrote: »

I think my exact words were

Most of the black taxi men and some irish taxi drivers are "independent"

look its all very well picking out what you want to read, but unless you have the FULL story and are not just looking to point score, then it comes across as you not having a clue. Oh, you still did not reply to your post "it was okay to hang blacks in the past". ARe you conveniently omiting replying to that also, cause it doesn't suit your agenda.

listen lads, come back when you have done a bit of living and educated yourselves a bit more. Until then I'm afraid you are only spouting nonsense. The facts are there if you chose to take the blinkers off. If not, well, hope the goalposts are to heavy for ye.

fishy fishy wrote: »

No, I will not get into a black taxi for the following reasons

Racist.

And yes, it was accepted to hang black people in the past because of their skin colour.

It was called lynching.

if you think aknowledging that means accepting it, then I feel sorry for your parents.

old hippy

We experience occasional racism here, in London. I've also witnessed some very unpleasant acts of violence. But because this place is so diverse, there's more likely to be an immediate backlash against such vile behaviour.

Amazingly, we still get stared at in Ireland but it's mostly out of curiosity.

It's my black female friends who have suffered the most abuse, here and in Dublin. Some guys see them as exotic toys and want to possess them, some get obssessed when they are rejected & some end up in trouble with the law for waiting outside their house to shout abuse at them every morning.

Leftist

fishy fishy wrote: »

wrong, it's because it says "truly Irish" on the side of the car - same as on the sausages.

Really? I've never once seen truly irish written on the side of a cab.

fishy fishy

Leftist wrote: »

Racist.

And yes, it was accepted to hang black people in the past because of their skin colour.

It was called lynching.

if you think aknowledging that means accepting it, then I feel sorry for your parents.

you're the fella that said it, and I think you said it was "fine" to hang them. Wow, can't believe you would even THINK such a thing.

confused dot com

Off to jump in my truly irish taxi now to eat truly irish sausages and watch my guaranteed irish ads on tv.

fishy fishy

Leftist wrote: »

Really? I've never once seen truly irish written on the side of a cab.

you don't seem to see a lot of things really.

(he he couldn't resist that one)

Ray Palmer

The one that always annoys me is the way people use race positively and don't realise it is racist too.

e.g "The Polish are much better workers ..."

It is no different from saying they are bad workers becasue it is based on their race.

At the same time if you say you don't like a particular cultural norm people call you a racist. " Homosexuality is frowned upon in Poland so the Polisish are often homophobic"

Certain things are real and being aware of differences is important to intigrate cultures.

Calling somebody a non national is not racist it is just a short way of saying non-Irish national and nothing more. I don't mind people wanting to be PC it is people who are both ignorant and missing the point of being PC.

K-9

Leftist wrote: »

skin colour.

Doesn't seem to have contradicted it anyway.

Hopefully Paul McGrath never ends up taxi driving, he isn't Irish apparently.

Leftist

fishy fishy wrote: »

you're the fella that said it, and I think you said it was "fine" to hang them. Wow, can't believe you would even THINK such a thing.

confused dot com

Off to jump in my truly irish taxi now to eat truly irish sausages and watch my guaranteed irish ads on tv.

pathetic.

SONIC2008

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I know it's only one man's story, but I've seen it so many times, people skipping taxis because of the driver being black. It's just pathetic, I feel sorry for them.

First of all can I say that I think this assualt is a disgrace, but like some of the above posters, I dont believe it was racially motivated. Taxi dirvers are attacked on occasion, I know of another attack of a white taxi driver in Ennis, I wonder why that didn't make national news?

I am a racist when it comes to getting a taxi in this town. Im sick to my teeth of getting taxis in Ennis with people who rip me off because they cannot understand what im saying and refuse to follow my directions of where im going. I have been over charged and verbally abused by them. I have been charged 15 euro for a one mile fare which im usually charged 6/8 euro for. This is not a once off, it has happened several times for the same journey with a fare of between 12 and 15 euro being charged.

I have been followed down the street by these drivers who keep asking me to get a lift with them. Whether I say no or ignore them the response is usually the same, they drive slowly beside me and then speed of in a huff. This to me is harrassment and I find it very intimidating as a 27 year old female. This again is not an isolated incident, it has happened many of my female friends after the nightclub too. On one incident, having being charged the 15 euro for a one mile journey, I told the driver I found it too expensive and wished to get out at this stop (the stop off at my friends house). He shouted abuse at me when I got out of the car (after paying him his amount in full). He was shouting "Get into the car, you got this taxi, you get into the car now"

Now every one of my negative experiences with taxi drivers in Ennis has been with black taxi drivers. I wish that I could treat everyone fairly but for my own safety and well being I just don't believe I can! When they deicde to treat me the same as the white taxi drivers treat me, then maybe we can begin to have some sort of fairness and equality.

lugha

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The one that always annoys me is the way people use race positively and don't realise it is racist too.

Isn't.

Ray Palmer

lugha wrote: »

Isn't.

Yes it is as it basically means other races aren't as good and uses race to distinguish people just becasue it is positive doesn't mean it isn't racist.



Look up the definition



Racism

suicide_circus

Father Damo wrote: »

Oh jesus.

Sorry, but foreign taxi drivers are

a- More likely to try to take a long route, or not know/ pretend not to know the best route

b- More likely to spend the entire journey having a hands free convo in another language

c- Less likely to cut off the extras

Honestly. It is not racist to say that a larger proportion of black drivers try to diddle the fare a bit. It is not racist to say alot of them are either clueless as to the route or pretend not to know to bleed an extra few quid out of it. It is not racist to say that most Irish drivers round to the nearest euro or half euro if the amt goes to say, 19.10 or 19.20, but foreign drivers demand every penny.

Grow up. Really. Not saying this applies to all foreign drivers but generally they show alot less fair play than Irish drivers.

Paparazzo wrote: »

Funny, complete opposite in my experience. Better chance of a Dublin driver ripping you off, going a longer way or generally having a bad experience.

And as such paparazzo, you are perfectly entitled to avoid 'native' Dublin drivers if your experiences have been negative. My extensive taxi taking career has however been similar to father damos in that black drivers are less likely to know where I want to or how to get there, less likely to round down the fare, less likely to take the quickest route and avoid traffic, more likely to take ages messing around with coins trying to embarrass me into letting them keep my change, more likely to have loud phone conversations on the hands free and more likely not to be the same guy as the photo on the license on the dash.
As such I would feel completely justified on choosing my taxi partly on the basis of the colour of the taxi drivers skin. Is it ideal? No. Is it modern and progressive? No. Is it racist? By definition, yes. Is it reasonable and justifiable based on my extensive past experience? Yes.

Cork boy 55

Leftist wrote: »

Shocked by this post as it is actually sensible.

I got a hungarian taxi driver once around Merrion Square last year, he was absolutely bang on.

I also hated taking white Dublin taxi drivers. Half way through their rant I would say my wife is eastern european/african and their whole rant put on the brakes. oh yeah but this and no but that's family etc.

Scum.

Why has this poster not been warned or banned?

double standards

copeyhagen

people have a right to choose whos taxi they get into, just as they have a right to choose whos shop to go into.

Ray Palmer

sunshine-dasies wrote: »

Sorry to interject on the current conversation, but just wanted to comment on the original post of this thread.

The guy who attacked the taxi driver - as far as I'm aware, he's schizophrenic and was off his medication at the time.

I'm not saying this to defend his actions (which are inexcusable & I think he should be in an institution) but just might shed a bit more light as to what was going on.

If that is the case then it does make a massive difference. If somebody is that meantally ill it pretty much is an valid excuse.

Even if somebody attacks somebody and uses an insult involving race I wouldn't nessarily think it is racially motivated. Insults can be quick and fast and don't nessarily connect to the entire brain in an argument

lugha

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yes it is as it basically means other races aren't as good and uses race to distinguish people just becasue it is positive doesn't mean it isn't racist.

Well if you permit additional meaning by inference to be extended to any word you will end up in an Alice in Wonderland scenario where everything is the opposite to what it seems.

i.e. If I compliment an individual in a group for something or other I am by extension insulting the others, if I say one is interesting then I am implying the others are boring.

Again I would say, there is nothing wrong per se with generalising about people based on a common characteristic, including race or skin colour. But there are good reasons why we should discourage people from making negative generalisations (I see no good reason to prohibit the making of positive generalisation) on the basis of such characteristics, and we have borrowed the label racist to describe the actions of those that do. (As an aside, it might serve us far better if we were to use a less highly charged word.)

Of course there are downsides. Some ethnic groups (maybe all of them) have specific negative characteristics but it is difficult to address the problem because to even point the problem out is, by definition, racism.

lugha

copeyhagen wrote: »

people have a right to choose whos taxi they get into, just as they have a right to choose whos shop to go into.

Indeed they do. But if they make their choice on the basis of race or skin colour then that is what we like to call racism.

Ray Palmer

lugha wrote: »

Well if you permit additional meaning by inference to be extended to any word you will end up in an Alice in Wonderland scenario where everything is the opposite to what it seems.

It isn't an extention

racism noun

1. The belief that members of one race are superior to members of other races

No additional meaning needed it is a plain statement of superiority of one race over another.

Best test is if you change the statemnet from positive to negative, if in it's negative state it is consider racist then it is racist in the positive too. A complement based on race is racist becasue it is based on race. Any statement based on race is racist by it's very nature

I know people in cork who prefer black taxi drivers because your guaranteed not to hear any racist comments about black taxi drivers/foreigners etc.

I did have one nigerian taxi driver who said he hated foreigners. Funniest taxi man yet

jazzerMac

i f##kin love african people here in ireland.. spent alot of time around africans, they love to cook nice food , so trust me when i say there hospitality is amazing, when you go to there houses it wont just be biscuits and tea..... F.. that.. its a nice fresh meal and a drink of your preference. the children are very well mannered towards their elders, not out of fear.. out of respect and appreciation. And yes they will talk a lot about thier country's in africa because they are beautiful and africa has about 4 of everything that other continents have and more...

Of course there is going to be a problem with africans being integrated into are social system, its not as if there handed a manuel about our country when they get here. They could be living here a long time and still not understand our history (which in most african country's is very simular to are own, supressed by british rule and our land raped..). They fight with the towns and villages next to them just like we do here!!



I totally get African people and i welcome them here to Ireland, and just so you no this is GODS land so all are welcome.

saywhatyousee

Reading this thread just got me thinking i have never seen a black taxi driver in Sligo odd considering they seem so prevalent elsewhere.

lugha

Ray Palmer wrote: »

No additional meaning needed it is a plain statement of superiority of one race over another.

I would say you are mixing up two distinct, if vaguely related meanings of racism.

The one you cite, the belief that a race is superior to others, is the original definition of racism and is appropriate to describe the nazis or white supremacist types. I don’t think too many people would feel that saying a particular race are hard working could be described as racism in this sense.

Happily, there is very little of this “hard” racism about and when people mention racism, they usually are referring to the newer, adapted definition. And IMO, this requires that a trait assigned to a race be negative before it constitutes racism according to this second definition.

Ray Palmer

lugha wrote: »

I would say you are mixing up two distinct, if vaguely related meanings of racism.

The one you cite, the belief that a race is superior to others, is the original definition of racism and is appropriate to describe the nazis or white supremacist types. I don’t think too many people would feel that saying a particular race are hard working could be described as racism in this sense.

Happily, there is very little of this “hard” racism about and when people mention racism, they usually are referring to the newer, adapted definition. And IMO, this requires that a trait assigned to a race be negative before it constitutes racism according to this second definition.

So a phrase like "Working like a black" isn't racist or "hard" racisim in your eyes? It means working hard which is a positive thing.:rolleyes:
The distriction based on race is the first a foremost definition as far as I am concerned. To distiguish in this way is the problem as it leads to either a positive or negative way to group people. It isn't acceptable to judge people on their race period! Positive or negative doesn't matter. Actual details like black people suffer from hypertension more than white is not raciist. It really ins't that hard to tell the difference.

lugha

Ray Palmer wrote: »

So a phrase like "Working like a black" isn't racist or "hard" racisim in your eyes? It means working hard which is a positive thing.

No it isn’t. It originates from times of slavery and alludes to the fact that blacks worked hard because they were forced to, not because they were inclined to.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The distriction based on race is the first a foremost definition as far as I am concerned. To distiguish in this way is the problem as it leads to either a positive or negative way to group people. It isn't acceptable to judge people on their race period!

Again, I would say that in principle, there is nothing wrong with judging people, positively or negatively, as the basis of some grouping that they belong to, including race. We do this all of the time. There just so happens to be good reasons why we should discourage people from making negative generalisations on the basis of their race. There isn’t a particular good reason for refraining from making positive generalisations, even the most PC commentators or public figures do so routinely.

KINGVictor

gbee wrote: »

This is amazing, KingVictor, earlier you con't string a sentence together, speaking pigeon English, now, now, you expect me to think you are still replying,

You're really funny, as transparent as cling film, yet you think a black Nigerian can hide in a black community just becasue they are alos ... erm, black?

Tell you what, you send me the email that you have billions in Nigeria and I'll send you my bank account.

What are trying to say? Like I said, you have lost the plot and now resorting to ad hominem attacks. Maybe you should try and stick to the argument :rolleyes:

I asked to clarify your statement about your special ability to recognise Nigerians when you see them and all you have done is make up stories because you cant defend your position.

It is just like saying you can determine if a white person is British, American or Irish just by looking at them- without interaction or listening to their accents, it is very difficult.

P.S. Make sure you are not living in a glass house before you throw stones. You criticise my use of grammar, you don't have a Nobel laureate in literature either - well going by the quoted post above.
And not that i am being particularly pedantic, it is Pidgin English and not 'Pigeon English' words don't fly.

afrodub

Rachiee wrote: »

yes all countries have racism but i do think the irish is a little bit worse than some other countries generally bhut its hard to measure and that said we dont seem to have the same problems with large organised groups of neo nazis that some other european countries seem to have which is really good.

As someone who isnt racist i find it ereally frustrating and feel i encounter it regularly.

"frustrating" I feel your pain sista I really do :rolleyes:

John_Rambo

biko wrote: »

As usual "Racist Ireland" means "Racist Dubs beats up black taxi drivers".

Post fail of 2012 so far.

There's life outside the Pale Biko...

Amber Lamps

KINGVictor wrote: »

It is just like saying you can determine if a white person is British, American or Irish just by looking at them- without interaction or listening to their accents, it is very difficult.

I think some people do have a knack in telling different nationalities apart, good with faces. I spent a lot of time in asia and i can pretty much tell the differences between a lot of faces from countries over there at this stage(vietnam-china-thailand-japan-korea-phillipines)

Thats why i was asking you earlier if the same sort of diversity can be found in africa. I've never been there but i've met quiet a few kenyans and i could definatly tell a kenyan apart from a nigerian. I have also seen africans who are REALLY black, is there a particular counrty in africa where they are this dark, sudan maybe?

Is it a case maybe that the western african countries are more of a mixed pot and are harder to differentiate between?

Not trying to start a row, just curious since someone brought it up.

Johnny Foreigner

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

For all the uproar on boards about that "Horrible chav English woman" on the tram abusing those immigrants, are we any better? Seems to be happening on a large scale in Ireland. This is shocking stuff, in this day and age Irish people are carrying on like this. I've often seen people avoid taxis because the drivers are black, and I'm ashamed to say I have friends at home who do the same. Are we inherently narrow minded? My own view of it was that Africa is an exploited corrupt sh*thole and we should at least try and offer some of them a better life.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/lsquoi-get-daily-racist-abuse-for-being-a-coloured-taxi-driverrsquo-2980239.html

Personally I don't think Ireland is racist enough.
The Irish have had enough of Governments that have failed them with soft immigration policies.
The Government is doing too little to late to tighten up border control within the Common Travel Area.
I think Ireland should take the same approach as France with regard to immigrants.
They evict Roma gypsies, and keep numbers of asylum seekers and refugees to a minimum. It works.
Personally I will only get an Irish taxi. I have walked in the rain when one is not available. The Irish need to get back to their old school values of looking after their own first.

Johnny Foreigner

saywhatyousee wrote: »

Reading this thread just got me thinking i have never seen a black taxi driver in Sligo odd considering they seem so prevalent elsewhere.

Check out the demographics of Sligo on Wikipedia. It has a very low population of immigrants.
I like the sound of that. It makes me want to live there.

El Weirdo

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Check out the demographics of Sligo on Wikipedia. It has a very low population of immigrants.
I like the sound of that. It makes me want to live there.

You're ok.

You can stay where you are, thanks very much.

Nodin

Amber Lamps wrote: »

I think some people do have a knack in telling different nationalities apart, good with faces. I spent a lot of time in asia and i can pretty much tell the differences between a lot of faces from countries over there at this stage(vietnam-china-thailand-japan-korea-phillipines)

Thats why i was asking you earlier if the same sort of diversity can be found in africa. I've never been there but i've met quiet a few kenyans and i could definatly tell a kenyan apart from a nigerian. I have also seen africans who are REALLY black, is there a particular counrty in africa where they are this dark, sudan maybe?

Is it a case maybe that the western african countries are more of a mixed pot and are harder to differentiate between?

Not trying to start a row, just curious since someone brought it up.

The peoples of certain regions in Africa have (generally )widely differing features. However being able to say that x is from Nigeria as oppossed to Cameroon or Niger is another ball game entirely. Given previous posts of Gbee, its unlikely the intimate knowledge required for such distinctions is his.

Nodin

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Personally I don't think Ireland is racist enough.
The Irish have had enough of Governments that have failed them with soft immigration policies.
The Government is doing too little to late to tighten up border control within the Common Travel Area.
I think Ireland should take the same approach as France with regard to immigrants.
They evict Roma gypsies, and keep numbers of asylum seekers and refugees to a minimum. It works.
Personally I will only get an Irish taxi. I have walked in the rain when one is not available. The Irish need to get back to their old school values of looking after their own first.

You know we've one of the lowest acceptance rates for asylum seekers in Europe...?

Father Damo

JFlah wrote: »

Interesting view , but lets see, so what if the non irish taxi driver wants his entire fare he is entitled to it do u expect all businesses to round charges down in your favour?

Of course not. But I think there is a traditional unwritten rule that if your fare is 19.80 you just hand him 20 quid and get out. If the fare is 19.20 he usually charges 19. This is typical of Irish drivers yet not of foreign.

Having said that I am assuming there are good and bad from every nationality but to say that black drivers are more likely to diddle the fare is simply wrong!!

Ive even had it happen here in Sydney, not just Dublin. One guy "forgot" to turn on his meter when we set off and then tried to do me for a tenner when its no more than 7 quid. I told him to get fcuked and handed him a fiver for his cheek (tbh no meter on, he was lucky I handed him anything, he never engaged me as a customer so technically I owed him nothing)

Paparazzo wrote: »

Funny, complete opposite in my experience. Better chance of a Dublin driver ripping you off, going a longer way or generally having a bad experience.

The only bad experience in all my years of taxis back home was one lad whos cab stank of sh1te and who was a bit....meh, odd. 99% have been good for a banter. The vast majority of the foreign lads have been grand and all but certainly a larger proportion of them are sly. And nearly every negative taxi story Ive ever heard regarded foreign drivers. Its not at all a racist statement. Get over yourselves.

Johnny Foreigner

Nodin wrote: »

You know we've one of the lowest acceptance rates for asylum seekers in Europe...?

Yes, its a disgrace.
Ireland should be the lowest in the EU.
Zero tolerance is what we need.

Nodin

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Yes, its a disgrace.
Ireland should be the lowest in the EU.
Zero tolerance is what we need.

Why?

MugMugs

Nodin wrote: »

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Yes, its a disgrace.
Ireland should be the lowest in the EU.
Zero tolerance is what we need.

Why?

+1 ?

Johnny Foreigner

Nodin wrote: »

Why?

There are too many asylum seekers and refugees in Ireland that have previously been refused asylum in the UK.
Rather than return to their country of origin when the are refused by the Home Office in the UK, they are coming to Ireland.
The Governments of Ireland and the UK are doing too little to late to tighten up border control within the Common Travel Area.
We need a zero tolerance approach.
It should be EU passport holders only allowed to stay in Ireland.
France evicts Roma gypsies, and they often have EU citizenship as they are from Romania. The French Government still evict them.
Ireland should do the same.
Tight control on immigration works.

Nodin

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

There are too many asylum seekers and refugees in Ireland that have previously been refused asylum in the UK.
Rather than return to their country of origin when the are refused by the Home Office in the UK, they are coming to Ireland..

.....which is a waste of time, as they won't be accepted.

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

We need a zero tolerance approach...

A zero tolerance approach to what, exactly?

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

It should be EU passport holders only allowed to stay in Ireland....

For one thing, as signatories to the Geneva convention, we're obliged to take in Asylum seekers and process their claims.

Do you propose that we expel , Australian, Canadian, American, Brazillian passport holders who are here on legitamate business?

Johnny Foreigner

Nodin wrote: »

.....which is a waste of time, as they won't be accepted.



A zero tolerance approach to what, exactly?



For one thing, as signatories to the Geneva convention, we're obliged to take in Asylum seekers and process their claims.

Do you propose that we expel , Australian, Canadian, American, Brazillian passport holders who are here on legitamate business?

Zero tolerance to asylum seekers.
Yes, evict anyone without EU citizenship.

Nodin

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Zero tolerance to asylum seekers..

So we remove ourselves as signatories of the Geneva convention. Brilliant.

Whats the "upside" to refusing all asylum applications?

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Yes, evict anyone without EU citizenship.

And you can't see any downside to that?

Herb Powell

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

There are too many asylum seekers and refugees in Ireland that have previously been refused asylum in the UK.
Rather than return to their country of origin when the are refused by the Home Office in the UK, they are coming to Ireland.
The Governments of Ireland and the UK are doing too little to late to tighten up border control within the Common Travel Area.
We need a zero tolerance approach.
It should be EU passport holders only allowed to stay in Ireland.
France evicts Roma gypsies, and they often have EU citizenship as they are from Romania. The French Government still evict them.
Ireland should do the same.
Tight control on immigration works.

Figures to back all this up, or GTFO

gbee

Nodin wrote: »

And you can't see any downside to that?

No. We are inclined to be a teaching state for other nations anyway. Doctors, nurses, teachers, huge expense and little or no return and attempts to try and make doctors stay for five years and practice post qualifications have been rejected.

Nodin

gbee wrote: »

No. We are inclined to be a teaching state for other nations anyway. Doctors, nurses, teachers, huge expense and little or no return and attempts to try and make doctors stay for five years and practice post qualifications have been rejected.

Do you think we train foreign Doctors for free?

El Weirdo

gbee wrote: »

No. We are inclined to be a teaching state for other nations anyway. Doctors, nurses, teachers, huge expense and little or no return and attempts to try and make doctors stay for five years and practice post qualifications have been rejected.

Then why do I always hear racists complain about being treated by a foreign doctor whenever they go to A&E?

gbee

El Weirdo wrote: »

Then why do I always hear racists complain about being treated by a foreign doctor whenever they go to A&E?

I think the answer is in my post already.

gbee

Nodin wrote: »

Do you think we train foreign Doctors for free?

The government bring it up as cost factor often enough. Free? If one listened to some of the ministers, one would be left with that conclusion.

Nodin

gbee wrote: »

The government bring it up as cost factor often enough. .............

They do? I haven't noticed. You've a link to such a story?

ItsAWindUp

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

There are too many asylum seekers and refugees in Ireland that have previously been refused asylum in the UK.
Rather than return to their country of origin when the are refused by the Home Office in the UK, they are coming to Ireland.
The Governments of Ireland and the UK are doing too little to late to tighten up border control within the Common Travel Area.
We need a zero tolerance approach.
It should be EU passport holders only allowed to stay in Ireland.
France evicts Roma gypsies, and they often have EU citizenship as they are from Romania. The French Government still evict them.
Ireland should do the same.
Tight control on immigration works.

What, do you seriously want to take advice on race relations and immigration from France of all places? Hardly a bastion of racial tolerance is it!

gbee

Nodin wrote: »

They do? I haven't noticed. You've a link to such a story?

I would not expect you to notice. http://budget.gov.ie/budgets/2012/FinancialStatement.aspx