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If this was my daughter, I'd be proud of her!

13567…13

Comments

  • #102
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    CodeMonkey wrote: »
    Oh bollocks. You're just making excuses cause you are on her side. She had no clue who it was.
    hondasam wrote: »
    This is where the story changes for me, she knew him, was it revenge?
    He was after her so protecting the baby is a non runner imo.

    Talk about damned if you do...


  • #103
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    CodeMonkey wrote: »
    You 2 are right. Completely justified killing. QED. Sorry I got involved.
    We knew you'd see sense eventually.

    *stops pointing shotgun and makes his way back out the open window.


  • #104
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Biggins wrote: »
    I was rightly corrected on the above.
    She later learned he's been stalking her.

    sorry did not see that.

    seriously how many intruders is she allowed shoot?


  • #105
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,414 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    CodeMonkey wrote: »
    Seems your not cause she can do no wrong or anything different. She was right, guy had to die. I really am out of here.

    She didn't decide to kill him. She decided to shoot the intruder when she felt that it was her only option to prevent him from harming her or her child. She might have been trying to scare him away, or to injure him. She asked the cop if it was okay to shoot, not kill. She's 18, she probably never lifted a gun in her life, let alone fired one.

    The guy, after trying for 20 minutes to get in, banging loudly on the door, entered the room, and she felt that by shooting at him, it was the only way and the last option she had to protect herself and her child. Remember, she called a dispatch car to come. She didn't want to shoot him, but she had to be prepared in case it was her only option. And when a guy who tries for 20 minutes to enter your property, bursts into the room you're in, and you're afraid for your life, and the life of your child, rational thinking doesn't always prevail. She did what she had to do, the only thing she felt she could do, and I applaud her for it.


  • #106
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Why not shoot him in the legs?

    Because alive burglars can come back

    And this, AH, is why guns should be legal to own by everybody


  • #107
    MonkieSocks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,386 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    dey took r Dawgs!

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • #108
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    hondasam wrote: »
    sorry did not see that.

    seriously how many intruders is she allowed shoot?

    Speculation at this point.

    The answer to that question might lie in the speed of a person to drop a phone, baby and reload a shotgun as each enters!

    ...Now if she was John Rambo armed with a heaver weapon...! :pac:


  • #109
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Penn wrote: »
    She's 18, she probably never lifted a gun in her life, let alone fired one.

    I'm guessing she's had at least 15 years practice.


  • #110
    danniemcq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Why not shoot him in the legs?

    to small a target

    aim for chest center mass.

    a terrified girl with 2 guys trying to break into your house you won't have the ability to shoot straight and true unless you are a very VERY good shot. If she missed the guy could have reacted quickly and could have led to him getting the gun off her.

    heck even swat and special forces are taught to aim for center mass instead of guaranteed kill headshot


  • #111
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,927 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    hondasam wrote: »

    seriously how many intruders is she allowed shoot?
    How many people are dumb enough to intrude after the first?

    The second guy got the right the hell outta dodge.


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  • #112
    mconigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    Unfortunately scum like this operate in Ireland too and target recently widowed women...probably not well known.


  • #113
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Biggins wrote: »
    Speculation at this point.

    The answer to that question might lie in the speed of a person to drop a phone, baby and reload as each enters!

    ...Now if she was John Rambo armed with a heaver weapon...! :pac:

    I meant if someone breaks in next month is it ok if she shoots them dead?

    we complain about the response of AGS here, how long did it take the cops to get there?


  • #114
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    hooradiation wrote: »
    Unless his knife had the ability to fly and attack on it's own I think she'd have been just fine. Basically, the only scenario in which what took place was the only possible recourse involves magic weapons is what I'm saying here.


    But whatever, shitty states have shitty laws. In other news water wet, sky blue.


    There was of course the small matter of the second man who was trying to get in the back door as well. If the first guy was shot and just injured it could have spurred the second guy on to try and get to his injured partner in crime.


    Basically it was a young girl/mother with her infant child one week after her husband died who was trapped in her own home by two men who were trying to break in through the front and back doors.

    What she did may well have saved her life and the life of her baby.

    I have no sympathy whatsover for the dead man. He was happy to try and force his way into the home of an 18 yo and child armed with a 12 inch blade. Now he won't be able to do the same shyte to anyway else.


  • #115
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    hondasam wrote: »
    I meant if someone breaks in next month is it ok if she shoots them dead?

    we complain about the response of AGS here, how long did it take the cops to get there?

    I think it took the cops something around 28 minutes after, to get there.

    If someone breaks in the next month, for that county the law is still the same and is applicable.
    I assume she (or anyone) would still be allowed defend themselves - of course being opened to investigation later as to use of excess force according to the conditions of the then ongoing incident.


  • #116
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    She spoke to the police over the phone first, and didn't shoot until they kicked the door in. There isn't a court in the land that would convict her, she seems to have kept her cool. On an unrelated note, 18 is a very young age to be married at, let alone to be widowed, and to lung cancer of all things.


  • #117
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Overheal wrote: »
    How many people are dumb enough to intrude after the first?

    The second guy got the right the hell outta dodge.

    If someone breaks in again in a few months she can kill them and it's acceptable?


  • #118
    danniemcq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Because alive burglars can come back

    And this, AH, is why guns should be legal to own by everybody

    maybe not everyone

    otherwise scumbags like these will end up with more guns


  • #119
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,927 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    hondasam wrote: »
    If someone breaks in again in a few months she can kill them and it's acceptable?
    She can defend herself. If that involves killing, then yes. Is this a hard concept to understand? "Oh well you already defended yourself in January so I'm sorry but you're just going to have to let this next guy in and have his way with you. Thank you for choosing your local 9-1-1 dispatch have a pleasant day".

    And that is why, as the article states, only 3 people have died from similar circumstances in Oklahoma in the last year. Because most people aren't that batsh*t stupid that they want to go breaking into people's homes.


  • #120
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    This is an interesting one. I don't think she did do the right thing by killing the man. She should have shot him in the leg or the arm. I think this killing might send out the wrong message.

    I would question what made this man try to enter the house to commit robbery.


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  • #121
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    hondasam wrote: »
    If someone breaks in again in a few months she can kill them and it's acceptable?
    Castle Doctrine - colloquially called the Make My Day Law from the 1983

    ...Oklahoma law states that anyone unlawfully entering a person’s home can be defended against by using physical or deadly force. The law was recently expanded in Oklahoma to include businesses.
    Detective Dan Huff told KOCO-TV that under some circumstances, shooting a person is permissible.
    ‘You’re allowed to shoot an unauthorised person that is in your home,’ he said.
    'The law provides you the remedy, and sanctions the use of deadly force.

    We can assume the law that covered her situation still applies if such similar things was to happen again, any time of the year and/or to her or another person.


  • #122
    marcsignal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    Dead Burglar ??

    My heart bleeds.....


  • #123
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Overheal wrote: »
    She can defend herself. If that involves killing, then yes. Is this a hard concept to understand? "Oh well you already defended yourself in January so I'm sorry but you're just going to have to let this next guy in and have his way with you. Thank you for choosing your local 9-1-1 dispatch have a pleasant day".

    LOL you know what I mean. she cannot just keep shooting people dead ffs.
    Talk about notch on the bed post :pac:


  • #124
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,927 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    She can actually, if people are dumb enough to try.
    KeithAFC wrote: »
    This is an interesting one. I don't think she did do the right thing by killing the man. She should have shot him in the leg or the arm. I think this killing might send out the wrong message.

    I would question what made this man try to enter the house to commit robbery.
    Perhaps she should have grabbed a pistol and slapped him on the wrist with a glance-shot.

    :rolleyes:

    It's alright I know I'm talking with a bunch of people who are extremely left-leaning and have never held nevermind tried to accurately fire a weapon before. It's hard enough to hit the arm of a static paper target let alone a moving body.

    Also with Shells, hitting him in the arm would have hit him in the chest anyway. Shells are not just a really big bullet they are little cannisters packed with much smaller shots. Hence the name.

    http://www.gothamsurvival.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Shotgun_Rounds.gif

    Depending on what type of ammunition she had (I have Bird Shot for home intrusion) the dispersal pattern is exceptionally wide. 'placing' a shot would be nigh impossible.


  • #125
    danniemcq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    This is an interesting one. I don't think she did do the right thing by killing the man. She should have shot him in the leg or the arm. I think this killing might send out the wrong message.

    I would question what made this man try to enter the house to commit robbery.

    general scumbaggery?

    and as mentioned (turns out lots in this thread already) she couldn't hit legs, arms are to much of a chance esp for a scared 18 year old and injuring him could have meant that the intruders would get the upper hand.

    and i think someone mentioned it was a double barrell. 2 shots max before reloading. miss with one you won't be able to reload and defend yourself against the other guy

    if i was in the same situation i woulda aimed for chest. every time


  • #126
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    This is an interesting one. I don't think she did do the right thing by killing the man. She should have shot him in the leg or the arm. I think this killing might send out the wrong message.

    I would question what made this man try to enter the house to commit robbery.

    She was holding a phone and a baby.
    Not unless she'd been trained by SWAT or the army to a high degree, there is no way to ensure that she would successfully hit him in the legs and it be enough even then, to stop him.
    ...And as already mentioned - she couldn't shot him in the legs anyway as the sofa was in the way.

    For the sake of herself and baby, she took the best option. Aim for the best biggest place to hit.

    Its alright calmly saying hit him 'here or there' later - not in the middle of a fear filled - possible shaking with fear - panicking situation.


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  • #127
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Overheal wrote: »
    She can actually, if people are dumb enough to try.


    Perhaps she should have grabbed a pistol and slapped him on the wrist with a glance-shot.

    :rolleyes:
    The lesson would have been learnt much more if she had just wounded him and he had time to think about what he did. But the way the United States is at the moment, it is no surprise this is happening. People are desperate.


  • #128
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    hondasam wrote: »
    LOL you know what I mean. she cannot just keep shooting people dead ffs.
    Talk about notch on the bed post :pac:

    if they keep breaking into her house she can. acted within the law.


  • #129
    danniemcq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    hondasam wrote: »
    LOL you know what I mean. she cannot just keep shooting people dead ffs.
    Talk about notch on the bed post :pac:

    seriously?

    i'm pretty sure she isn't going to roam the streets killing people now and saying oh they tried to attack me.

    or leaving the door open in the house with a jewelry box in the front hall

    if for some bizarre reason there was a dead guy in the house every week for a year then either

    A) she is a psycho killer

    or

    B) criminals in that area are dumb as fcuk if they keep trying to break into her house week after week. It wouldn't really come across as an easy break in


  • #130
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Biggins wrote: »
    She was holding a phone and a baby.
    Not unless she'd been trained by SWAT or the army to a high degree, there is no way to ensure that she would successfully hit him in the legs and it be enough even then, to stop him.
    ...And as already mentioned - she couldn't shot him in the legs anyway as the sofa was in the way.

    For the sake of herself and baby, she took the best option. Aim for the best biggest place to hit.

    Its alright calmly saying hit him 'here or there' later - not in the middle of a fear filled - possible shaking with fear - panicking situation.
    Well I don't really buy into the whole holding the baby argument. She could have easily put the baby down in the corner of the room and went and shot him in a place which would just wound him. Then he would go to prison and possibly learn a valuable lesson.


  • #131
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Well I don't really buy into the whole holding the baby argument. She could have easily put the baby down in the corner of the room and went and shot him in a place which would just wound him. Then he would go to prison and possibly learn a valuable lesson.

    There was a man ALSO breaking in from behind. What if while she was playing nice with the front guy - the back guy got to the child she put down?

    The then possibilities and consequences are too horrible to think of!


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  • #132
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    krudler wrote: »
    if they keep breaking into her house she can. acted within the law.

    I know she can within the law but would everyone here find it acceptable if she kept shooting intruders? I know they are in the wrong breaking in.
    How many people can you murder before the public's sympathy runs out?


  • #133
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Well I don't really buy into the whole holding the baby argument. She could have easily put the baby down in the corner of the room and went and shot him in a place which would just wound him. Then he would go to prison and possibly learn a valuable lesson.

    I love how people who will never be in this situation give shoulda coulda situations.

    it shouldnt take being shot and wounded and put in prison to learn you dont kill peoples dogs, break into the house and terrorise an 18 year old with a baby. fcuk him.


  • #134
    danniemcq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    The lesson would have been learnt much more if she had just wounded him and he had time to think about what he did. But the way the United States is at the moment, it is no surprise this is happening. People are desperate.

    WHAT!

    yes this war on the taliban is doing everything arseways, we should be injuring taliban soldiers not killing them.

    what if it had went the other way, he got pissed off after being injured and wanted to take out revenge on her?

    Then she woulda been a whole load worse off


  • #135
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,927 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    The lesson would have been learnt much more if she had just wounded him and he had time to think about what he did.
    Jesus wept. You are serious aren't you.


  • #136
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    hondasam wrote: »
    I know she can within the law but would everyone here find it acceptable if she kept shooting intruders? I know they are in the wrong breaking in.
    How many people can you murder before the public's sympathy runs out?

    wtf? are people going to be lining up to break in now or something? are you seriously equating shooting in defence one person to now its going to become a weekly occurence for her or something?


  • #137
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,435 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    The burglars asked for it in fairness. She didn't have to shoot them but they still asked for it.


  • #138
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    hondasam wrote: »
    I know she can within the law but would everyone here find it acceptable if she kept shooting intruders? I know they are in the wrong breaking in.
    How many people can you murder before the public's sympathy runs out?

    Murder?
    ...Or kill in self-defence as in this case?

    I would rather any of my daughters kill every one of any incoming attackers in the right situation.

    I would rather any of my daughters by judged by twelve than be carried to a possible grave by six!


  • #139
    Captain McDuck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 87 ✭✭Captain McDuck


    Dead husband was a sick cnut. At 48 marrying a 16 year old.

    Pure Durt.


  • #140
    danniemcq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    hondasam wrote: »
    I know she can within the law but would everyone here find it acceptable if she kept shooting intruders? I know they are in the wrong breaking in.
    How many people can you murder before the public's sympathy runs out?

    oh ffs seriously?

    oh hey mr intruder. yes come on you might as well rape and torture me, few months back someone broke in and i used my yearly allowence on protecting myself and my child on them

    no no don't worry i won't struggle incase i hurt you


  • #141
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    hondasam wrote: »
    I know she can within the law but would everyone here find it acceptable if she kept shooting intruders? I know they are in the wrong breaking in.
    How many people can you murder before the public's sympathy runs out?

    I personally would have infinite sympathy for anyone defending themselves from scum like those 2. Shoot away my friend!


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  • #142
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,927 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    hondasam wrote: »
    I know she can within the law but would everyone here find it acceptable if she kept shooting intruders? I know they are in the wrong breaking in.
    How many people can you murder before the public's sympathy runs out?
    So after the 5th intrusion say, society just goes "Meh, they must really want her. Let them have her."


  • #143
    marcsignal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Well I don't really buy into the whole holding the baby argument. She could have easily put the baby down in the corner of the room and went and shot him in a place which would just wound him. Then he would go to prison and possibly learn a valuable lesson.

    If you find yourself in a situation, where you are left pointing a loaded weapon at someone, in an effort to defend yourself in your own home, you are not going to have time to think things through, because the adrenaline will be leaking out of your ears.

    under the circumstances, i think she got it spot on.


  • #144
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    krudler wrote: »
    wtf? are people going to be lining up to break in now or something? are you seriously equating shooting in defence one person to now its going to become a weekly occurence for her or something?

    It was just a simple question that's all, no need to get excited.


  • #145
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Overheal wrote: »
    So after the 5th intrusion say, society just goes "Meh, they must really want her. Let them have her."

    its like Home Alone, but with fatal shootings instead of hilarity.


  • #146
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Biggins wrote: »
    There was a man ALSO breaking in from behind. What if while she was playing nice with the front guy - the back guy got to the child she put down?

    The then possibilities and consequences are honorific too think of!
    Well the second robber might not of noticed the baby and these things happen so quickly, it could have been over in a minute. It seems to me she panicked and acted on instincts.


  • #147
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,311 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Biggins wrote: »
    What if she had killed him by her firing a warning shot though the door - while he was there - on the outside?
    Also, don't forget that a police officer could have been at the other side of the door, or an innocent child could have been passing my at that time...

    =-=

    Also, who the f**k burglars armed with a knife in a country that allows you to own a firearm? You go in with a gun, and shoot anyone that gets in your way, so you can steal as much cash as possible. Unless of course you intended to rape the house owner, that is.

    So if the intruder broke in, and she shot his legs. You know, those thing things sticking out of the body. Will be have them apart, or together. When he's running at her, and she misses, what should she do? Or should she shoot the big mass of flesh also called the chest? Guaranteed to hit and stop the intruder. Tough sh|t if he dies, if he wanted to live he should've gotten a 9-5 job like the rest of us!


  • #148
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Well the second robber might not of noticed the baby and these things happen so quickly, it could have been over in a minute. It seems to me she panicked and acted on instincts.

    exactly, so logical "what if" thinking goes out the window and she did what had to be done.


  • #149
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,927 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I just think it's odd, that in half of these AH threads where say some Irish case happens where some guy has been raping a girl for 20 years everyone's like "Blast his balls off!" and all this crap. Now here we are and it's like "Aww, that's kinda mean."


  • #150
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Well the second robber might not of noticed the baby and these things happen so quickly, it could have been over in a minute. It seems to me she panicked and acted on instincts.

    If and buts...
    A mother in such a situation (I suspect) would not be willing to take that chance and be separated from her child - just so a very aggressive attacker (21 minutes!!!) can be treated nicely!

    I think she did act on instincts and kept her child close as possible.
    What parent wouldn't!


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  • #151
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Biggins wrote: »
    If and buts...
    A mother in such a situation (I suspect) would not be willing to take that chance and be separated from her child - just so a very aggressive attacker (21 minutes!!!) can be treated nicely!

    I think she did act on instincts and kept her child close as possible.
    What parent wouldn't!
    Well I don't think all parents are the same. In the UK and the ROI, I doubt every parent would have killed this robber. But in America, there is this aggressive instinct when it comes to protecting the home and it seems to have came out in this case.


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