Met two unusal and rare breeds today.

Queen-Mise

Caucasian Ovcharka wrote: »

As they are a working breed the general consensus would be that they require a lot of exercise. My own experience would be that if for what ever reason I miss a long walk out in open fields it will stress the dog and a change in temperament is definitely noticed even after one day of missing the long walk and even if you have a couple of short walks instead they never have the same effect. I have never noticed this as clear in any other dog. Its simply not like any dog I have known, very sensitive to its surroundings and so intelligent it does on occasion freak me out.

They sound like an incredible dog.

I find it amazing, & somewhat unbelievable that a dog can be trained/reared/bred to have those characteristics. And then at the same time I believe you completely.
All I have to do is to think of guide dogs, and then imagine that training/selective breeding going back several hundred years.

It is a scary to think of this dog in the hands of an inexperienced dog owner.

Caucasian Ovcharka

Shocking story in UK today headlines are young girl killed by 4 dogs

I don't know if it even right to mention it out of some sort of respect.

words just don't reach the feelings on this one

it all seems wrong, the size of the garden, the types of breeds together, the girl visiting left alone with them etc

2 Staffordshire bull terriers (which can be a great dog for a good owner)

2 bull mastiffs which I have no experience of

The pack mentality is something truly bizarre I have seen the nicest little fluffy pet can turn into a wild animal when the pack mentality steps in.

This is just so sad

Caucasian Ovcharka

Another litter now on sale in wexford on dd I think he is selling 4 litters per year with 2 bitches?



is this puppy farming?


anyone?

DBB

Caucasian Ovcharka wrote: »

Another litter now on sale in wexford on dd I think he is selling 4 litters per year with 2 bitches?



is this puppy farming?


anyone?

It depends on your definition of puppy farming. Legally, to be considered a breeder under Irish legislation, you must own 6 or more bitches of breeding potential. Obviously, this would apply to the big puppy farms.
However, in Ireland at any rate, there are hundreds of "back yard breeders" (BYBs) who breed on a smaller scale, but still have no respect for animal welfare: I suppose you could call them mini puppy farms. But because most of these people have less than 6 bitches, they do not fall under the legislation, and are therefore not subject to the supposed welfare stipulations and licence requirements that the law provides for.
Yet these people, with, say, 5 bitches, can still produce 10 litters a year. At a conservative estimate, let's assume 4 pups per litter, though remembering that some breeds routinely produce many more, some less. That's 40 pups a year, at a conservative estimate. Not bad as a little sideline, is it?
Without doubt, BYBs are far more numerous in Ireland than the 6+ bitch puppy farms are, and it is exactly these sort of people that dd, and to a lesser extent other websites, cater for, enable, and facilitate. And the worst thing is, unless he is breaching animal welfare laws, there's nothing illegal about it... Though there is the potential option of turning Revenue's attention to the proceeds from those 40 pups, Al Capone style!

Caucasian Ovcharka

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2300229/If-need-sign-saying-beware-dog-pet-dangerous-share-home-child.html

Melion

Where did the bulldog come from in this story? Yesterday it was 2 mastiffs and 2 staffies that were shot.

loveisdivine

I see from that article that the owner was a BYB. Perhaps some good can come from the incident and it will encourage people not to buy from BYB's.

billy2012

byp?

Nody

billy2012 wrote: »

byp?

Back Yard Breeder; small scale puppy farm.

Caucasian Ovcharka

updated link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2300229/If-need-sign-saying-beware-dog-pet-dangerous-share-home-child.html

I would recommend that every dog owner should read this article as what it communicates is exactly what every dog owner should understand and carry with them especially if its a medium to large breed, working breed and where there is more than 2 dogs in a family.

I thought it was an amazing summation even if its on the dailymail!

The Sweeper

Except his description of illegal pitbull types drips red top hysteria all over the place...

ISDW

Can't read the article, just get an error message

Caucasian Ovcharka

Just changed the link with the updated article, in relation to it I think the overall point is what is profound. I spoke to a few defence dog trainers in my time and its pretty much the same point and needs to be reread a couple of times to be appreciated.

ISDW

I've already read that article. sorry, I'm not being deliberately obtuse, but what exactly in it should dog owners carry with them? I honestly can't see anything informative or helpful in it.

The line "As so often happens when an untrained person tries to intervene in a dog fight, the animals turned on him." is one that I find very surprising. Obviously people can easily get bitten when trying to break up a dog fight, but that is usually because they put a piece of their body in the way of the teeth of the fighting dogs, not because the dogs turn on them. Is there any evidence to back this 'as so often' bit up?

Knine

ISDW wrote: »

I've already read that article. sorry, I'm not being deliberately obtuse, but what exactly in it should dog owners carry with them? I honestly can't see anything informative or helpful in it.

The line "As so often happens when an untrained person tries to intervene in a dog fight, the animals turned on him." is one that I find very surprising. Obviously people can easily get bitten when trying to break up a dog fight, but that is usually because they put a piece of their body in the way of the teeth of the fighting dogs, not because the dogs turn on them. Is there any evidence to back this 'as so often' bit up?

Agree, I've broke up many fights and on one occasion involving a Pit Bull Terrier who was in the process of seriously injuring a Rottweiler. Never has a dog turned on me. Of course like ISDW mentions, you could easily get in the way and be bitten accidently.

I've read several of these similar articles this week, some say the dogs are never at fault and then go on to vilify certain breeds or make inaccurate statments.

Caucasian Ovcharka

In fairness to the author I think he experienced the extreme side of dogs and perhaps how undesirables make foolish owners of aggressive dogs whether the aggression is type (a) typically toward another dog such as in the staff's or type (b) toward humans as with Dobermans etc.

The point I think is simple and mostly unappreciated by many dog owners. My reading in its simplicity is that when a dog is triggered and that very trait of aggression kicks in and which has very often been reinforced by breeding. Then the dog is no longer the pet you know and love. It's another animal.

People say my little darling would never hurt a fly yet when in a pack it will gladly chase down and take part in the kill of sheep, (all chase horses and cattle) mesmerised by the pack.

When in pack mentality
When in aggression mode

the base instinct of the breed takes over and this aggression is what dominates all psychological experience of the dog.

The dog typically fails to respond to commands, calls and pleas from the owner and the owner can't understand why?


This is what the article communicates your domestic lovely dog still has a vicious animal inside that can come out a lot easier than we think and can cause great harm and even loss of life.

forgive any errors and the length of my reply!

Magenta

Caucasian Ovcharka wrote: »

Hi,

I have always been a fan of boards.ie but never had the drive to join until I saw this post hence I joined. So please go easy on me.

I have a Caucasian Shepard and I had a essay written in reply to this post but I when I spell checked it disappeared probably for the best as I went off on one in a critical way about the breeder in Ireland who has pumped between more than 30 pups into the Irish market with his 2 bitches.

I love the breed but as others have pointed out there is an element of a ticking time bomb here as the breed is being sold to anyone who is willing to pay upto €1000 a pup. They have been sold since 2011 and in the past 6 weeks there have been 4 6 month old pups up for rehoming on dondeal which I think is ALARMING!!!

Was just browsing an ads site and remembered this thread. There is an 8 month old for sale now. They are a very rare breed so it is very noticeable and alarming how many of them are being rehomed before they're even a year old.

Caucasian Ovcharka

Hi Magenta,

just had a look at the ad and thanks for highlighting this again,

Its a fact that these dogs have been pumped in to Ireland by 1 breeder and over 10 x 6-12 month dogs have been seeking to be rehomed/sold on for whatever reasons have been advertised just on that site and this I would guess is from the approx 40+ pups produced by him.

Since this discussion on the boards there has been a definite reduction in the irish breeders ads on the same ad site.

This has to be good news!!

People power?

As for the current Ad its been up a few times for past 2-3 months but the poor dog look so sad! I know that looks cannot truly reflect this but the dog does look sad in most pictures. Gorgeous dog and I would love to have her myself but who can now afford 1400 at the moment?

fatmammycat

They're beautiful dogs, but I dread the thought of them in the wrong hands.

Magenta

Caucasian Ovcharka wrote: »

Hi Magenta,

just had a look at the ad and thanks for highlighting this again,

Its a fact that these dogs have been pumped in to Ireland by 1 breeder and over 10 x 6-12 month dogs have been seeking to be rehomed/sold on for whatever reasons have been advertised just on that site and this I would guess is from the approx 40+ pups produced by him.

If you ask me, if he's produced 40ish puppies, and 10 of them are being rehomed a few months later, then it sounds like he's shopping these puppies out to whoever has the cash, and not making sure they're going to knowledgable homes.

Caucasian Ovcharka

An update to all who contributed to this last year.

Just checked the site that lists "all the for sale items" and there is another batch of Caucasian Shepard pups up for sale again!

it will be interesting to see if in another 6-8 months will be a repeat of the pattern from the past 4 years, 2 bitches around the same time producing 2 litters which are sold at up to 1000 a pup.

The problem is that people buy a pup and after 6 months realise the dog is not suitable to their semi-d or their busy lifestyle. And after 5 or 6 months the adverts go up seeking to rehome the dogs. This is traumatic to the dogs and I find this really frustrating as this has happened to at least 15 dogs from this breeder that I have seen on advertisements alone seeking to be rehomed.

If anyone is thinking of buying one of these breed of dogs please do your research first.