Thinking of a new pc, Need advice!

Completionist

So after seeing the thread about a Dell XPS Desktop for €610(Later €650) on Bargain Alerts i began considering a new PC again. The one linked above however seems a bit overkill.
Dell also has a less powerful one which includes a monitor(Which i need) for a total price of ~€700 which seems fair. Difference from a quick look is as follows: A monitor, i5 2320 rather than i7 2600, slightly better graphics card, lack of photoshop elements.

My only concern is the lack of a good graphics card, and the processors being either overkill or not powerful enough(When conpared to the i5 2500k on benchmark websites)

I've never built a PC before which is why i am trying to avoid hardwareversand.de.

Some questions:
What are the suggested specs for a PC to be able to run games on high/medium setting for the next few years?
Are those dell deals any good? I remember a few years back dell used to be considered expensive crap.
If i were to go for the second dell deal, What graphics card should i upgrade to?
Are SSD's really worth it? Im used to long loading times, I've never really had a fast PC before.
Are desktops nowadays loud? The last one i had ran windows 98:o

Heres the thing everyone seems to fill out, Maybe it will help.

1. What is your budget? €800, I could if required go up to €1000 but i would prefare not to!

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? Gaming - It will need to be more powerful than an xbox 360, Which i think is medium settings nowadays? Need to justify my purchase!

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? Yes

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? No

5. Do you need a monitor? Yes

5a. If yes, what size do you need. Unsure, What is the suggested size?

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future?

---

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? Keyboard.

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? Perhaps, But not too much.

8. How can you pay? Bank Transfer/Credit Card/Laser

9. When are you purchasing? Not in a rush, Should i wait until after CES?

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? Shouldn't need help if building is required.

Serephucus

Why does the fact that you haven't built a PC before mean you should avoid HWVS? Anyway, here's one from Dabs:

Item|Price
Total build cost: €879.23 (inc delivery €1.36)
ASRock S1155 Intel H61M DDR3 mATX|€49.19
XIGMATEK Asgard Chassis|€32.52
Intel Core i5-2300 2.80GHz LGA1155 6MB|€169.62
Samsung 320GB SpinPoint F1 7200RPM SATA 3GB/s 16MB 3.5"|€76.26
Crucial 64GB m4 SATA 6Gb/s 2.5" Solid State Drive (Inc Transfer Kit)|€126.05
Microsoft Windows Home Premium 7 SP1 64-bit EN 1pk OEI OEM DVD|€88.52
BenQ G2020HD - LCD display - TFT - 20" - widescreen - 1600 x 900 - DVI-D, VGA - glossy black|€104.71
XFX ATI Radeon 6870 900MHz 1GB PCI-Express HDMI|€156.16
Antec 400W High Current Gamer 80plus Bronze PSU|€58.68
Samsung 22x DVD-RW SATA Black|€16.16


Anyway, in a rush, so can't elaborate, I'll let others explain why this is better than Dell.

Completionist

I want to try and ease the shock on my wallet so would using my tv be a viable alternative to a monitor? I have a 32Inch sitting in the corner unused than seems to work grand connected to my laptop over hdmi?

Would upgrading the CPU you suggested to an i5 2500k be worth it?

Serephucus

You could, but just to be sure that's it's decent (1920x1080), could you post the model number / link, etc.?

You could, but to avail of overclocking, you'd need a different motherboard (costing about €90), so it would be more expensive than you think. You could get a compatible motherboard now and upgrade down the line if you wanted a performance boost.

If you're wondering where to put extra money: GPU, GPU, GPU. It's what'll show the most in games, hands-down.

Completionist

Its a pretty old TV, An LG 32LH2000. The default resolution when connected to my laptop is 1360x768, When scaled up to 1920x1080 the edges of the screen are missing(enough to make the close button on firefox almost disappear). This may be due to not being set up or just not compatiable. The writing is also slightly blurry.

Edit: After a look at the link i posted, It does say the tv is only 1360x768. That explains it.

Completionist

So im slowly building a pc on hardwareversand.de.

Is the 6870 much of a difference over the 6850?

Do i need to buy cables to connect anything if i were to build it myself? >_>

Here is a build i have put together, Is it all compatiable and how long should i be expecting to get out of it before an upgrade is needed? Is there anything i can do to cut the price, Or anything that i should buy instead that increases the price and performance?

I was thinking maybe:
Replace HD with a SSD(The one suggested above should do? Or this) - Wait for HD prices to drop, Then begin expanding my storage options
Replace CPU with i5 2500k - Would require a new mobo, Increasing total cost by around €80?
Replace GPU with either 5870, Or 6950? - Increasing cost by €30 or €85



Item|Price
Total build cost: €565.72 + €30 shipping
Xigmatek Asgard, ATX, ohne Netzteil, schwarz|€31.61
Intel Core i5-2320 Box, LGA1155|€161.39
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1000GB, SATA II (HD103SJ)|€109.90
Sapphire HD 6850 1GB GDDR5 PCI-Express|€125.04
ASRock H61M-HVS (B3), Sockel 1155, mATX|€41.84
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€41.95
Samsung SH-222AB bare schwarz SATA|€16.46
8GB-Kit Corsair XMS3 PC3-12800U CL9|€37.53



Then a monitor from amazon:
BenQ G2220HD 21.5 Inch Wide LCD Monitor €103.36

I assume using the TV i discussed earlier with this build would be counter productive as it only runs at 720p instead of the full 1080p?

Edit: Will a fancy cpu cooler be required now? Or if i were to get the 2500k, and overclock it? Also, Can the mobo i've chosen take full advantage of SSDs? Thinking of getting this one. Its cheaper and faster than the one suggested.

cgarrad

Compare cpu

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php

cgarrad

1080p screen with free post!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001WRMOTU

Serephucus

Might as well just get the monitor from HWVS as well.

http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=51957&agid=603

RE TV: Depends. If you don't mind how 720p looks, then you could just stick with that. A 1080p monitor is pretty cheap though, but you'll get lower framerates at the higher resolution.

If you can get by with 64GB, then yes, I think the SSD would be a good idea. Yes, the motherboard can take full advantage of it, and yes, the Samsung is a good choice.

CPU cooler: No if you're sticking with the 2320 (unless you just want it to be quieter), but if you're getting the 2500K, then yeah, you'll want one (though you can always use the stock cooler for now, and pick one up later).

partyatmygaff

Serephucus wrote: »

CPU cooler: No if you're sticking with the 2320 (unless you just want it to be quieter), but if you're getting the 2500K, then yeah, you'll want one (though you can always use the stock cooler for now, and pick one up later).

A good rule of thumb for the 2500k is that anything above 4GHz needs more than stock cooling.

Completionist

Questions:

1. Whats next up from a 6870? A 6950?
2. Would a 560, or a 560 ti be a better than the 6950 in terms of power/price?
3. Could someone throw me a good link to their recommendation? Currently have this in my basket, but looking for an alternative.
4. Is it worth going for a 2gb 6950?
5. Is it worth waiting for the rest of the 7XXX to be released?
6. Would an i5 2320 bottleneck a 2gb 6950?
7. Would a 450w psu be enough or would i need to get a 550w?

partyatmygaff

Completionist wrote: »

Questions:

1. Whats next up from a 6870? A 6950?
2. Is it worth going for a 2gb 6950?
3. Is it worth waiting for the rest of the 7XXX to be released?
4. Would an i5 2320 bottleneck a 2gb 6950?
5. Would a 450w psu be enough or would i need to get a 550w?

1. Yes, but if we take in to account Nvidia the next step up is the GTX 560 Ti and GTX 570.

2. Probably a good idea if it's not too expensive. Very few games (Today) manage to even use 1GB but having too much vram is never a bad thing.

3. It's only a month. It may push the prices of 6xxx down by about €10 if that's what you're interested. If you're happy enough to get a HD6xxx then there's no point in delaying.

4. No. Not for games anyway.

5. 450W is grand for a 6850 (And a 6950 at a push) but i'd recommend 550W for a 6950.

Completionist

Whats the difference between lite and retail with regards to graphic cards?

Theres a €7 difference in price, I assume it does not come with retail box?

Serephucus

Probably something like that, yeah.

marco_polo

I think it just means it comes without (unnescessary) addional bundled software/games or whatever bonus crap the particular company is throwing into the full retail version

A lite retail version should still come in a box with cables and a driver disk AFAIK.

Completionist

Nice even numbers. €750.00

Item|Price
Total build cost: €750.00 + €30 shipping
Samsung SH-222AB bare schwarz SATA|€15.65
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9|€31.68
BitFenix Merc Alpha|€31.61
Cooler Master Silent Pro Series - 500 Watt|€75.18
Sapphire HD 6950 Dirt3, 2GB GDDR5 PCI-Express|€242.91
Intel Core i5-2400 Box, LGA1155|€168.98
ASRock H61M-HVS (B3), Sockel 1155, mATX|€42.25
Corsair Force3 120GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5") SATA|€141.74


This is my current basket, i5 2400 was cheaper than i5 2320 so changed to that. Is everything compatiable?


Still need a monitor, However it is low priority. I assume this would be a good monitor for gaming with its 2ms response time and high contrast ratio? Its out of my price range at the moment however:(

Anyone have any suggestions for a cheap €100 - €120, 22 Inch+ monitor that performs decently?:D

Edit: Would a normal psu, Lets say this or this be much louder than the one i have chosen?

marco_polo

Completionist wrote: »

This is my current basket, i5 2400 was cheaper than i5 2320 so changed to that. Is everything compatiable?

Still need a monitor, However it is low priority. I assume this would be a good monitor for gaming with its 2ms response time and high contrast ratio? Its out of my price range at the moment however:(

Anyone have any suggestions for a cheap €100 - €120, 22 Inch+ monitor that performs decently?:D

Edit: Would a normal psu, Lets say this or this be much louder than the one i have chosen?

There is a fairly decent BenQ 21.5 LED DVI monitor available for 113 .

Most good quality PSUs are very quiet unless they start nearing their Full load capacity, so I wouldn't think that the Super Flower Amazon will be noticibly louder than than the CM500 (Get the Amazon not the Gamer one if you decide to switch.) In any case pretty well any PSU fan will be good as silent relative to any GPU without a third party cooler

Completionist

So im having trouble deciding between the 6870 1gb and the 6950 2gb, Im having trouble justifying the purchase...

Does anyone have experience with the two, and can say for sure that the 6950 2gb is worth it over a 6870? The only reason i can see right now(for me) to get the 6950 is for future titles, But wouldn't there be better models out by then?

Total build, when everything is included(Monitor, keyboard,controller, additonal wires) is €930.49 delivered, If i replace the 6950 it will bring it down below €900 which is great:3

Item|Price
Total build cost: €900.49 + €30 shipping

Amazon:
Microsoft Wired Keyboard 600 - Black|€10.66
Samsung S22A300H 21.5 inch Widescreen LED Monitor (MEGA DCR, 1920 x 1080 Full HD, 2ms, HDMI/VGA) - Gloss Black | €134.96
Microsoft Xbox 360 Common Controller for Windows - Black (PC) | €22.07

Hardwareversand.de
Samsung SH-222AB bare schwarz SATA|€15.03
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9|€31.84
Intel Core i5-2400 Box, LGA1155|€166.99
DIGITUS Premium CAT 6 S-FTP, 10m Patchkabel, blau|€3.99
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W|€51.48
Corsair Force3 120GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5") SATA|€136.99
ASRock H61M/U3S3 (B3), Sockel 1155, mATX|€56.99
DIGITUS Netzwerk-Kabel 3M gedr. DB-1521-030-CO RJ45 F-UTP|€7.99
Xigmatek Asgard, ATX, ohne Netzteil, schwarz|€31.61
HIS HD 6950 IceQ X GDDR5 2048MB Native HDMI 2xDVI 2xMiniDP|€229.89

partyatmygaff

For the sake of €30ish euro i'd just go for the 6950.

Completionist

partyatmygaff wrote: »

For the sake of €30ish euro i'd just go for the 6950.

6870 is currently €146, So €84 difference, Is it really worth it?:P

partyatmygaff

Completionist wrote: »

6870 is currently €146, So €84 difference, Is it really worth it?:P

Well in that case... probably not. I'd get the 6870 if you aren't going to be gaming at 1080p (Well you could certainly do it but not with everything maxed out).

Completionist

Will have to sleep on it i think!:o

Trying to balance price with power is tiring work!

warlikedave

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Well in that case... probably not. I'd get the 6870 if you aren't going to be gaming at 1080p (Well you could certainly do it but not with everything maxed out).

the i5 2400 is a nice processor but how does it compare the the sandybridge in price may i ask?

I would go with a k version of the 2500 or 2600 personally - its unlocked so you can actually increase its speed step on load or decrease its speed step when your wanting to conserve power - example mine speed steps up to 3.8 on load but if im watching something on media centre or vlc or just browsing i drop it to 3.0ghz or 2.7ghz to conserve a bit of juice or increase it if needs be :P - ive tested it with skyrim at 4.1ghz - got to 4.3ghz but thermal issues arose (no need for that speed really lol but i wanted to see what it could do easily) so its more flexible and its usually the same price as the standard locked non K version of the processors however beware - overclocking will increase heat and voltage so tread carefully if ye do go this route

At the end of the day it is all about need and want over the period that you will have the machine for - personally though I would go for the i7-2600k processor (2600k: unlocked with standard clock of 1.6ghz and steps to 3.8ghz but can do more in the same way the 2500k does if ye can get it as cheap)

(also note that the original sandybridge like the 2500k and the 2600k were released in quarter 1 as was the i5 2400)

i7 - 2600k
http://ark.intel.com/products/52214/Intel-Core-i7-2600K-Processor-%288M-Cache-3_40-GHz%29

i7 - 2500k

http://ark.intel.com/products/52210?wapkw=i7%202500k

i5 2400

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/benchmarks/desktop/core-i5-2400-vs-core-2-duo-e6550/core-i5-2400-vs-core-2-duo-productivity.html?wapkw=i7%202400

If you type in the processor in the following search link ye should be able to pull up intels gaming benchmarks for each processor and much more:

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/search.advanced.html or http://ark.intel.com/

I could also recommend the GTX 560 ti ASUS overclockable version but its the same price as the 6950 and im not totally sure how they compare performace wise (ive maxed out all games on this card so far but I cant compare it with the ATI/AMD version - skyrim for example runs at 45-60 frames per second) even though they are the same price. One thing i do like about the ATI 6950 is that it has 2gb of dedicated GDDR5 - double my GTX nvidia card so that is a plus but that also depends on the game as well and how much memory it loads into the card when its rendering the game. Its a nip and tuck game between Nvidia and ATI anyway - they have both produced some wonderful cards in the last couple years.

I think ye should be looking at 1336mhz speed DDR3 ram minimum personally as well if the i5 2400 supports it

Heres a link to the build i ordered 6 months ago from elara so ye can have a look at the components and see for yourself - https://www.elara.ie/members/viewpwishlist.aspx?wishid=4324 It was built with a 4 year cycle in mind (with some possible overclocking in mind) for gaming, DVR/PVR via WMC and web design were my needs with a budget of 1k Euros 6 months ago - didnt need a monitor or hard drives so that cut the cost a bit for me) although i might well upgrade the graphics card in year 2.

Thats my thoughts - Hope I was some help although I apologise if I over spammed on this :P

Completionist

As much as i would love to get the i5 2500k, It would increase cost too much. €30 extra for a motherboard that supports it, €30 extra for the processor and then some extra added on for the cooling that will be required.

FlyingIrishMan

Completionist wrote: »

As much as i would love to get the i5 2500k, It would increase cost too much. €30 extra for a motherboard that supports it, €30 extra for the processor and then some extra added on for the cooling that will be required.

You sure your not spending too much on the SSD? 64GB is all that is needed really, you can install your OS, programs, and a few steam games with about 10GB left. It will be much easier, and you'll have spent less money in the long run buying the i5 2500k now and getting a larger HDD later when you get some more money for it.

warlikedave

Completionist wrote: »

As much as i would love to get the i5 2500k, It would increase cost too much. €30 extra for a motherboard that supports it, €30 extra for the processor and then some extra added on for the cooling that will be required.

The i7 is on stock cooling

Anyways I just thought id give ye some insight into the decisions I had to make when I was buying and my experiences researching it all myself....i know the pain dude to an extent - couldnt get all the parts i wanted either

ye have a good machine built there i think anyways :P we all have our preferences :P

Completionist

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

You sure your not spending too much on the SSD? 64GB is all that is needed really, you can install your OS, programs, and a few steam games with about 10GB left. It will be much easier, and you'll have spent less money in the long run buying the i5 2500k now and getting a larger HDD later when you get some more money for it.

Well i want a SSD and a HDD, And getting both would cost me around €200, If i were to get just a HDD i would need to reinstall the OS when i buy a SSD at a later date. However if i get a decent sized SSD i can buy a HDD later and not have any hassle. I could get a 64gb ssd but i would then require a HDD even sooner.

the 120gb SSD will last me a few months hopefully(I have pretty much every game ever released to play!) and then by that time the price of HDD's will have come down, and i will have more money to spend!

However i will take into consideration the prospect of lowering the SSD to 64gb and sticking an i5 and compatiable motherboard in instead. Can't purchase now until monday anyway so i will have the weekend to consider my options.

How much free space will be left on an SSD with Windows 7, and basic programs installed on it?

Serephucus

My 32GB SSD has about 6GB free. That's with Win7, Office, Firefox, Opera, Winamp, Photoshop, and Minecraft. Also drivers and all that junk.

Completionist

So i replaced one of the cables im getting with a cheaper one from amazon, Brings the cost down €6.
I replaced the SSD with the 64gb m4 bringing the cost down a further ~€40

Added the i5 2500k and compatiable motherboard for only €10 extra added to my total.

warlikedave

what size are your games taking up currently if i may ask??

Completionist

Currently i have pretty much no games, So only a few gb's:D

A few indie titles, but other than that nothing, Due to not having a decent machine to play games on in years. Will fix that problem once i get my rig together. The last non indie pc game i bought was morrowind... :pac: