The Great American Novel: Does it exist?

mickoregan

Ormus wrote: »

It should be a novel which perfectly captures America at that time.

Right. Then, there can never be "THE" great american novel - just many great american novels.
Once again, in answer to the OP, the answer must be - no, "it" doesn't exist.

Tombo2000

mickoregan wrote: »

Ormus wrote: »

It should be a novel which perfectly captures America at that time.

Right. Then, there can never be "THE" great american novel - just many great american novels.
Once again, in answer to the OP, the answer must be - no, "it" doesn't exist.

Mick

I think to be fair, the concept is not "The Great American Novel" of which there can be only one; rather is the concept of the "Great American Novel"....which conceptually refers to the novel which captures the essence of what America is for a particular generation or era.

I think in the past it was easier for a novelist to do this as that country was less complex.......1930s America was defined by the recession and the Grapes of Wrath captures this......similarly the roaring twenties and The Great Gatsby.....

I dont actually know what a Great American Novel of the 2000s might deal with, as there is no defining societal shift that one can refer to......I'd say something like The Wire is the closest thing to a great American novel in recent years, except that its not a novel.

mickoregan

Yes, yes, yes....correct.

I was under the impression from the original post that the OP felt that there could be only one and was looking for suggestions as to which one would come nearest in the board's opinion.

I was just stating that there could not be only one.

I'm tired now....:)

Enkidu

I've always found Moby Dick very monotonous, I basically had to force myself to finish it. The development of many characters goes nowhere (e.g. the boat hand who just disappears from the story half way through) and I find that Melville is quite poor at creating a vivid image of a scene except near the start and somewhat toward the end.

However I suspect that this is because I'm missing something, I'd like to read it again with a fuller understanding. I recently did this with Dickens and the difference it makes once you "get" an author is a big one. Anybody have any pointers?

WoollyRedHat

Of mice and men, and The Grapes of Wrath, John Steinbeck

Enkidu

Enkidu wrote: »

I've always found Moby Dick very monotonous, I basically had to force myself to finish it. The development of many characters goes nowhere (e.g. the boat hand who just disappears from the story half way through) and I find that Melville is quite poor at creating a vivid image of a scene except near the start and somewhat toward the end.

However I suspect that this is because I'm missing something, I'd like to read it again with a fuller understanding. I recently did this with Dickens and the difference it makes once you "get" an author is a big one. Anybody have any pointers?

Completely agree with your thoughts on Moby Dick. Every second chapter reads like an instruction manual for various antiquated whaling/boating apparatuses.

I would consider The Great Gatsby, The Grapes of Wrath and Blood Meridian to be fine examples of the Great american novel.

ush

Gravity's Rainbow and the Twilight Series.

ush

ush wrote: »

Gravity's Rainbow and the Twilight Series.

Is there any way to only thank the first part?

johnny_ultimate

I'd say Infinite Jest would kind of fall into this category for me. It, like the country of its origin, is an obese mess, but it's a glorious celebration and/or harsh critique of pretty much every aspect of modern American life - from politics to gluttony and - of course - the mass media and the constant search for mindless entertainment and distraction.

Plus, you've got love how Foster Wallace handles the perceived 'Canadian Problem' in it :P

apsalar

Ormus wrote: »

I disagree. The Great American Novel can't be someone's subjective idea of an American novel which they consider to be great.

It should be a novel which perfectly captures America at that time. That's what the concept means.

Grapes of Wrath ticks all the boxes. Although I enjoyed East of Eden more.

Completely agree with this...it's all subjective and depends on what ones tastes are, but I think enjoyment of the story itself is equally important as tone, language etc...my nominees are:

The Red badge of Courage

Death of a Salesman (I know it's a play, but I think it's a contender)

ush

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there any way to only thank the first part?

Thank the poster and then report the post.

--Kaiser--

I'd put Blood Meridian, Moby Dick and The Catcher in the Rye in this category

raah!

I agree that "Great American Novel" has to mean "novel which captures perfectly America at a certain time" if it is to mean anything at all.

But since I don't really have too great a knowledge of what America was like at any time I'll just have to go for Huckleberry finn, as my "Great American Novel" and Moby Dick as my favourite american novel.

ush

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

I'd put Blood Meridian, Moby Dick and The Catcher in the Rye in this category

And you doing so well there. Holden Caulfield is a whining little twät.

Lady von Purple

I wouldn't go so far as to say 'The Great American Novel' is a subjective term, but I also don't think it's a definitive term.

It does mean different things to different people, but that's because people infer different meanings onto it, it's a category that doesn't come with a set of terms and conditions. For example, I always thought The Great American Novel would be one that represented and embodied The American Dream. Of which the closest I've seen (though highly debatable) would be The Great Gatsby.

The problem I have with the phrase is it singles out one specific text. Even if you say that this particular novel is timeless and will remain The Great American Novel, there may still be future novels that better represent the American ideal. So I think it's a phrase that isn't remotely specific enough and as a result it winds up meaning all things to all men, and is also fallacious if it really is, like it sounds, promoting one novel above all other novels.

ush

ush wrote: »

Thank the poster and then report the post.

Done and done :P

ush wrote: »

And you doing so well there. Holden Caulfield is a whining little twät.

He is indeed but isn't that an integral part of the overall story.
Same way Ferris Bueller is cocky little git.

PurpleBee

Lady von Purple wrote: »

promoting one novel above all other novels.

the great american novel is a great Americanism, where being the best and worshiping the best and owning the best is all important.

But to me it seems the best novels commonly referred to as "great american" are those that interrogate the idea of the american dream most closely and shun the hierarchy into which they're eventually subsumed.

I think the piece of art which most comfortably fits this category is actually a poem... "song of myself" by Walt Whitman.

Harry Angstrom

ush wrote: »

And you doing so well there. Holden Caulfield is a whining little twät.

I wouldn't necessarily say that about Holden Caulfield. I'd say he was mixed up and misunderstood and on the verge of a nervous breakdown. If that sounds like whining to you, then I hope you don't practice psychiatry for a living .

--Kaiser--

ush wrote: »

And you doing so well there. Holden Caulfield is a whining little twät.

That's the thing with the book, you can either stand him or you can't. The book itself is incredibly well written (IMO). I re-read it last year (the first time since the Leaving Cert) and I literally could not put it down until it was finshed

ush

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

That's the thing with the book, you can either stand him or you can't. The book itself is incredibly well written (IMO). I re-read it last year (the first time since the Leaving Cert) and I literally could not put it down until it was finshed

I could stand him as a teenager. But not when I tried to reread it as an adult.

BlueValkyrie

For me the 'Great American Novel' is one of those sprawling epics that span lifetimes or generations - Jeffrey Eugenides 'Middlesex', Jonathan Franzen's 'The Corrections' or John Steinbeck's 'East of Eden' (I preferred this one to The Grapes of Wrath, probably just me though), or maybe Joseph Heller's 'Catch 22'....it's difficult to choose.

On the other hand, I absolutely hated 'Gone with the Wind' which I suspect some would include in any list of great American novels.

Red Hand

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I liked that book but I preferred The Secret History so much more. She's a great writer though.

I read The Little Friend before The Secret History, so maybe that has something to do with it, but yeah, excellent writer. Maybe it's because The Secret History is bigger and the charactor of Harriet is so well developed. You can tell that she spent an age over those books, they can't be improved.

Bodhidharma

Yes it exists, but not as a single novel. The Border Trilogy by Cormac McCarthy is available in a single edition (tough read but worth it) and I would say that contains all the elements of the great American novel.

Ormus

Bodhidharma wrote: »

Yes it exists, but not as a single novel. The Border Trilogy by Cormac McCarthy is available in a single edition (tough read but worth it) and I would say that contains all the elements of the great American novel.

Not sure it qualifies, as it's set in a different time to when it's written.

One of my all time favourite reads though.