Racism discussion in Soccer

daithijjj

Ive not used feedback before but i will try to keep this short.

I would like the Racism thread and debate in the Soccer forum reopened.

The reasons for its closure that i have read include, there needs to be new developments or there has been too many infractions etc.

Now, since the thread has been closed, there have been several developments. The chair of racism movement 'kick it out' has openly criticised Liverpool Football Club, Patrice Evra has a video running on Sky News throughout the day showing him using words that in some ways contradict his evidence. You cannot open a newspaper or listen to a news bulletin without the debate evolving. Lawyers are writing scathing articles on the FA diciplinary procedure. Black journalists are writing articles criticising the press coverage, the journalists, the FA.

Yet, for all the above (and other articles i have left out), i cannot discuss it, i have no platform to discuss a very important topic that has come to the fore and had Soccer as its vehicle. I am told that i have to go to another site if i want to talk about it?, this cannot be right and i know there are plenty of others who feel the same but our posts are repeatedly deleted.

Personally, i find it ridiculous that we can have a thread open for months, and then as soon as we pass judgement day, all of the ramifications, conclusions and cross examination of the whole debacle cannot be entertained anywhere on the Soccer forum. If people cannot handle the hot topic within the thread then they have a choice to not click into it, i dont think an increase in infractions is a legitimate excuse to close such an important thread. It is emotive and it is hard not to spill it over into club specific threads which nobody wants.

Plenty of people have managed to comment for months in this thread without losing their heads, all i want is a platform to discuss what i am reading in the paper today, seeing on tv today, listening to on the radio today. If this does not constitute new developments then i dont know what does.

El Inho

seconded

amiable

Agree totally with daithijjj.

I contacted a mod about posting something relevant and new in the Racism thread but he refused(politely).

IMO it's time to reopen the thread and I agree that if people can't post in the thread without breaking the charter that's their problem.

Handsome Bob

The problem is that it's an exercise in futility at this stage, regardless of the new issues coming to light. The Racism thread was a massive pain in the hole and I don't miss it, and looking at what's happening in last night's match thread just solidifies that for me.

jonniebgood1

Racism in football is indeed a subject that should be discussed and there are so many worrying issues that have come from this case, i.e. what is more important, the team you support or your tolerance of racism. I can only imagine though that it must be a nightmare to moderate it and it probably shouldnt take place in a soccer forum.

Leiva

I initially didn't mind it been closed and asked for it in not so many words , but when LFC mentioned a few items/issues (post accepting ban) that I had highlighted in previous posts I tried to debate them again , but it seemed that it sounded more like going around in circles , which it was not , and it was the soon closed .

The whole 115 document needs to be debated and not just it's verdict .

There is inconsistencies in evidence been highlighted that deserve to be debated .

There is professionals given their views on the document/verdict that deserve debate.

There is a platter of tabloid (so called) journalists having free reign and talking Shiite that need to highlighted for what they are.

Plus numerous other issues which daithijjj can put forward better than I ever would .

mike65

I'm mixed on this, I'm not missing the thread as its a car-crash but the Liverpool thread isn't appropriate either, there have been developments on the could be/racist theme with more to come no doubt.

For mods its a PITA so I'd simply make it utterly clear that the thread is for news, articles and discussion thereof rather than off the cuff opinion that is been typed out a hundred times before and anyone who goes in to rile, abuse or act the maggot in any way should get a straight red and a serious ban - months not days or a week.

YouTookMyName

No, God No. It was going round in circles and was basically at Pool Vs UTD slagging match.

daithijjj

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Racism in football is indeed a subject that should be discussed and there are so many worrying issues that have come from this case, i.e. what is more important, the team you support or your tolerance of racism. I can only imagine though that it must be a nightmare to moderate it and it probably shouldnt take place in a soccer forum.

How can we not talk about a subject though, that expert sports lawyers are referencing as "extraordinary" when commenting on the FA, their procedures and the failures?. A case, that if heard in court would have been thrown out, according to every single source i can find.

Closing threads because they are more difficult to moderate is kindergarten moderation in my honest opinion. Where can the adults talk about such a subject on boards without impinging on or going off topic in another forum?.

amiable

Further reason is Liverpool Football club have just released a statement with regards last nights incident

stovelid

YouTookMyName wrote: »

It was going round in circles and was basically at Pool Vs UTD slagging match.

Hard to believe that would happen in the soccer forum.

GLaDOS

It seems just to have jumped into the Liverpool vs Oldham match thread

mike65

It was always going to find a place.

fred funk }{

Seems strange there's nowhere in the soccer forum to discuss it. Anyone causing trouble, just ban them.

jonniebgood1

daithijjj wrote: »

Closing threads because they are more difficult to moderate is kindergarten moderation in my honest opinion. Where can the adults talk about such a subject on boards without impinging on or going off topic in another forum?.

Perhaps so, but is discussing racism in a forum where football allegiances take preference (this clearly was the case on the closed forum)?

daithijjj

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Perhaps so, but is discussing racism in a forum where football allegiances take preference (this clearly was the case on the closed forum)?

There are many people who post in the forum who have gone months now without resorting to stuff that results in infractions. What we end up with now is overspill into 2 or 3 other threads and mods are not closing those threads, why?.

Either racism discussion is not allowed or it is allowed but in a thread designated to it. Nothing constructive can come of the current situation.

Personal allegiances on the soccer forum is an everyday occurrence. For me its very simple, completely ignoring it doesnt make it go away. Given the stance that allegiance will always come to the fore, then we might as well never open anything that concerns this topic ever again in the soccer forum if this is the thinking behind closing the thread, and all discussion of it is infracted no matter what.

How can this be preferable and moving forward?. I realise now the tactic is to just ignore it and it will go away eventually, when has this ever fixed anything?. It will be in full force again when the crown prosecution delivers its verdict on John Terry. Or will this be ignored also?

greendom

Handsome Bob wrote: »

The problem is that it's an exercise in futility at this stage, regardless of the new issues coming to light. The Racism thread was a massive pain in the hole and I don't miss it, and looking at what's happening in last night's match thread just solidifies that for me.

All the better to have it in one place then where you and others like you won't need to read it. Otherwise it will keep appearing in anything Liverpool related.

PHB

Thread led to the following:

- Upwards of 275 reported posts by my count! In a month! The combined amount of the United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea Superthreads was about 75!
- It has led to one permanent ban for a poster, and 56 infractions. 56!
- That includes three people on here who have shown support for it to be re-opened.
- Vicious, vicious, attacks on posters.
- Multiple mentions of Hesyel and Hillsborough

So, in a forum where we are meant to be talking about the FA Cup and what's going to happen this weekend, we are instead banning people, loads of people, who when posting about football are perfectly fine posters, but in this thread, seem to lose all sense of logic.

Now this might be worthwhile if the thread was actually discussing anything. It really wasn't. It was a complete mind****, where a new poster would come in every 2-3 pages, make a claim that has either been disproved or proved already, and you'd have a page of posts explaining to people why they are wrong, probably ending in an infraction. It was a thread that was impossible to mod, because it seemed everybody was trolling.

The only downside for me is that there wasn't a place where we could keep it out of all the other threads, that's an issue for me, but if this new racist abuse thing hadn't popped up, I'd figure it'd have died down.

There is not a whole not new to discuss. There is a massive report, with about 7 days of debate, discussion, etc that happened afterwards. At the moment, re-opening the thread adds absolutely nothing to the forum, and will no doubt result in more and more posters getting banned because of it, which will take away from the part of the forum that I think is important, ya know, discussing football!

p.s. It'll be re-opened when there's an actual new development, which will most likely be the Terry case.

daithijjj

PHB wrote: »

Thread led to the following:

- Upwards of 275 reported posts by my count! In a month! The combined amount of the United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea Superthreads was about 75!
- It has led to one permanent ban for a poster, and 56 infractions. 56!
- That includes three people on here who have shown support for it to be re-opened.
- Vicious, vicious, attacks on posters.
- Multiple mentions of Hesyel and Hillsborough

So, in a forum where we are meant to be talking about the FA Cup and what's going to happen this weekend, we are instead banning people, loads of people, who when posting about football are perfectly fine posters, but in this thread, seem to lose all sense of logic.

Now this might be worthwhile if the thread was actually discussing anything. It really wasn't. It was a complete mind****, where a new poster would come in every 2-3 pages, make a claim that has either been disproved or proved already, and you'd have a page of posts explaining to people why they are wrong, probably ending in an infraction. It was a thread that was impossible to mod, because it seemed everybody was trolling.

The only downside for me is that there wasn't a place where we could keep it out of all the other threads, that's an issue for me, but if this new racist abuse thing hadn't popped up, I'd figure it'd have died down.

There is not a whole not new to discuss. There is a massive report, with about 7 days of debate, discussion, etc that happened afterwards. At the moment, re-opening the thread adds absolutely nothing to the forum, and will no doubt result in more and more posters getting banned because of it, which will take away from the part of the forum that I think is important, ya know, discussing football!

p.s. It'll be re-opened when there's an actual new development, which will most likely be the Terry case.

I completely disagree, the Soccer forum should cater for all news surrounding the game. All this mod decision has done is postponed the inevitable by a few weeks. Do the mods feel that the Terry case wont be completely deconstructed and compared to the Suarez case?.

We both know people dont bother their backside reporting posts from superthreads that much, if at all. All that thread required was a firmer hand. And most people wont know this feedback thread even exists to comment on.

I appreciate its difficult to mod, i have been a mod myself but not on boards. The assumption that there is nothing new to discuss is ludicrous to be honest, some of us have plenty of stuff to talk about that has only come out since the thread was closed. All i see is a thread being closed because it suits the mods, but doesnt enrich the forum like it should. Instead, it seems to me that the mod decision here is one of babysitters not moderators.

Xavi6

There should be a thread for every aspect of the game and the fact that racism one has been closed leads me to assume, given PHB's stats, that it was simply too much hassle and the mods couldn't be arsed managing it any more.

And that's not how the forum should be fun.

K-9

Xavi6 wrote: »

There should be a thread for every aspect of the game and the fact that racism one has been closed leads me to assume, given PHB's stats, that it was simply too much hassle and the mods couldn't be arsed managing it any more.

And that's not how the forum should be fun.

The problem seems to be that it is brought up on the United, Liverpool and the Oldham game threads. Its such a big issue it's probably unreasonable to expect it not to be discussed or mentioned on other threads.

Super-Rush

Xavi6 wrote: »

There should be a thread for every aspect of the game and the fact that racism one has been closed leads me to assume, given PHB's stats, that it was simply too much hassle and the mods couldn't be arsed managing it any more.

And that's not how the forum should be fun.

This.

Most threads on Boards can be a PITA but mods have to deal with them because thats why they/i signed up to be mods in the first place.

It seems to be a recurring theme in the soccer forum that people troll/insult/wreck threads for fun, but it takes FOREVER to do something about it. Then the mods close threads because its gotten out of hand. The infraction/banning procedure is there for a reason. Why not use it?

super_furry

The entire thing is bizarre. It's a massive issue that's setting the news agenda at the moment with developments all the time - Liverpool have just issued an apology to Tom Adeyemi - and yet there's nowhere to discuss it.

Don't get me wrong, there was some daft stuff said in the Racism thread from many sides, but the mods voluntereed to deal with exactly that kind of stuff. It seems like this decision has been taken to give them an easier life. If the thread needs modding, do it. If people deserve bans, ban them.

Don't close down valid topics of discussion to protect idiots from themselves.

Morag

Why not have the thread in the Humanities forum?

GLaDOS

Sharrow wrote: »

Why not have the thread in the Humanities forum?

Couldn't do that to the poor humanities mods, they'd be overrun!

Pro. F

PHB wrote: »

Thread led to the following:

- Upwards of 275 reported posts by my count! In a month! The combined amount of the United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea Superthreads was about 75!
- It has led to one permanent ban for a poster, and 56 infractions. 56!
- That includes three people on here who have shown support for it to be re-opened.
- Vicious, vicious, attacks on posters.
- Multiple mentions of Hesyel and Hillsborough

So, in a forum where we are meant to be talking about the FA Cup and what's going to happen this weekend, we are instead banning people, loads of people, who when posting about football are perfectly fine posters, but in this thread, seem to lose all sense of logic.

Now this might be worthwhile if the thread was actually discussing anything. It really wasn't. It was a complete mind****, where a new poster would come in every 2-3 pages, make a claim that has either been disproved or proved already, and you'd have a page of posts explaining to people why they are wrong, probably ending in an infraction. It was a thread that was impossible to mod, because it seemed everybody was trolling.

The only downside for me is that there wasn't a place where we could keep it out of all the other threads, that's an issue for me, but if this new racist abuse thing hadn't popped up, I'd figure it'd have died down.

There is not a whole not new to discuss. There is a massive report, with about 7 days of debate, discussion, etc that happened afterwards. At the moment, re-opening the thread adds absolutely nothing to the forum, and will no doubt result in more and more posters getting banned because of it, which will take away from the part of the forum that I think is important, ya know, discussing football!

p.s. It'll be re-opened when there's an actual new development, which will most likely be the Terry case.

PHB you are taking the piss saying that the forum is supposed to be about talking about the FA Cup and not racism in football. It is a massive issue in general and this particular incident is an extremely high profile recent story. The topics discussed in football have never been limited to the on field action. There is undeniably a huge interest in discussing all the aspects of and relating to the game.

Racism in football is a part of football. Evra and Suarez's case is a part of football. The subsequent stories coming out of Liverpool football club and the reactions to them are a part of football. You are not allowing those discussions to happen.

Posters getting banned is not itself a bad thing. If they can't control themselves when discussing a divisive topic then the forum is better off without them. Punish the bad posters for their actions, not the rest of the forum.

An easy solution to the problem of new posters coming into the thread and repeating already disproved/proved claims would be a mod note spelling out the simple things that have already been proved/disproved and a warning that any new uninformed claims to the contrary will be infracted.

LuckyLloyd

Only saw that this thread was here. Barring discussion of this topic is simply poor moderation. Yes, it's a difficult subject and will cause trouble but that discussion absolutely must take place accepting that there will be repetition.

RasTa

Does that mean Mr.Alan is perm banned from soccer?

#15

RasTa wrote: »

Does that mean Mr.Alan is perm banned from soccer?

Didn't know he was banned. Is Flahavaj banned as well?

All while low-level trolls are allowed wreck threads on a consistent basis. Bizarre state of affairs in the SF at the minute.

super_furry

Aside from the racism topic, I think there needs to be a wider discussion about the standard of modding on the soccer forum.

Xavi6

Some acknowledgement of this thread would be a start, I reported the OP yesterday asking from some admin/mod input and not a peep.

Shock horror.