Dundrum SC gift card

corner back 2

I was dundrum sc today and went to the giftcard counter to check the balance on giftcard the my wife and I received as a present. My wife had used the card previously and thought the there was over €50 left on it. She queried the clerk when she was told there was only €17 left. The reply she got was that €3 a month is deducted if you dont use it. This is nothing short of <SNIP> and I find it hard to believe it is even legal. As you can imagine when you get the card it is not printed obviously anywhere that this is case. I am still fuming about this and I imagine that the person who gave us the gift would be horrified to think that this was happening with their money. I havent posted in the consumer forum previously so I dont know if this has been brought up before. I feel that this should be highlighted on a larger scale somewhere as I feel like we have been robbed and also the person who was thoughtful enough to give us the gift has been <SNIP>

snappieT

This is common practice. As an alternative to a voucher just expiring (which I'm sure you're familiar with), its balance is slowly deducted from after that date. You still tend to have 12 months before this deduction begins.

The reason vouchers need to expire (or have some other way of reaching a zero value) is for accounting - you can't have liabilities of thousands of euro of 20-year-old lost vouchers on your books forever, there needs to be a way to remove that debt. Expiration is one way, deducting 3 euro a month is another.

It was in the terms and conditions at the time of purchase, and is better for the consumer than flat out expiration, which is within the law (I assume, given how commonplace it is/was). No scam.

copacetic

I've used the cards before and haven't had this issue, however looking at the t&cs it appears the charge of €3 a month does kick in after 13 months as noted above.
http://www.dundrum.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Perfect_Card_Framework_Contract_4_1.pdf

Personally I don't think that's too bad considering a lot of vouchers run out altogether after 12 months.

corner back 2

It may be on the t&cs at the time of purchase but you have to remember that most of these cards will be bought as gifts. Also there is an expiry date printed on the card which most people will take as .... well ... the expiry date!!!!!! Its great to see posters on the consumer issues forum think that its okay for big businesses like this to literally take money out of peoples pockets without them knowing.:mad:

wmpdd3

I have never seen one of those cards, but I know they take an amount after a certain amount of time. I think 12 months is more than generous.

The Lovely Muffin

corner back 2 wrote: »

It may be on the t&cs at the time of purchase but you have to remember that most of these cards will be bought as gifts. Also there is an expiry date printed on the card which most people will take as .... well ... the expiry date!!!!!! Its great to see posters on the consumer issues forum think that its okay for big businesses like this to literally take money out of peoples pockets without them knowing.:mad:

It isn't the fault of Dundrum that you didn't know this.

The information is freely available on their website, so they are not scamming anyone or hiding anything. There was nothing stopping you from going to their website to get that information.

It's up to you and no one else to get the information. There is no point in blaming Dundrum or anyone else, the information is there for you.

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I think 12 months is more than generous.

I agree with this.

Twelve months is plenty of time to use a gift card and if you don't use a gift card/voucher within this period then I personally think you should expect some sort of charge.

It costs Dundrum money to operate a gift card system so it's only fair that they somehow have to recoup that cost.

Most (if not all) gift cards/vouchers expire after twelve months and cannot be used then, so you should be grateful that you can still use the Dundrum card, even if you have to pay €3 per month.

GerardKeating

corner back 2 wrote: »

It may be on the t&cs at the time of purchase but you have to remember that most of these cards will be bought as gifts. Also there is an expiry date printed on the card which most people will take as .... well ... the expiry date!!!!!! Its great to see posters on the consumer issues forum think that its okay for big businesses like this to literally take money out of peoples pockets without them knowing.:mad:

Some retails are better than others, Shaws recently honoured a 13 year old voucher.

corner back 2

Thanks again for the replies from the two managers of dundrum shopping centre. I will have to remember to check out the website for every voucher or gift card I get in the future! Also I will ignore the expiry date that is printed on it! Seriously I cant believe that any non-dundrum employee wouldnt have a problem with this. My wife didnt feel under pressure to use the card as she believed the expiry date printed on it. I wouldnt feel comfortable giving this as a gift and having to set deadlines for the person to use it and ask them to read the t&c's on the website.:mad:

The Lovely Muffin

corner back 2 wrote: »

Thanks again for the replies from the two managers of dundrum shopping centre. I will have to remember to check out the website for every voucher or gift card I get in the future! Also I will ignore the expiry date that is printed on it! Seriously I cant believe that any non-dundrum employee wouldnt have a problem with this. My wife didnt feel under pressure to use the card as she believed the expiry date printed on it. I wouldnt feel comfortable giving this as a gift and having to set deadlines for the person to use it and ask them to read the t&c's on the website.:mad:

An expiry is just that, expiry date at least you are still able to use the voucher, even if you have to pay fee's.

Perhaps the next voucher yourself and your wife receive should be used before the expiry date, to avoid any fee's etc.

corner back 2

We were trying to spend it before the expiry date. Yes there is those two words again .... EXPIRY DATE. Yes that means the date by which any normal thinking, reasonable, person would believe that they have to use the full value of a gift card. If there is a problem with going beyond 12 or 13 months why not put an expiry date(those two words again!) of 12 months on the card. Then I would use it before the expiry date(again!). Why dont they? The answer is so that they can steal money from you or realistically form the person who gives you a gift card. That my friends is a scam. Hope the job in dundrum is going well. Probably should sign off before I get banned.:mad:

emanresu

The Lovely Muffin wrote: »

...
Perhaps the next voucher yourself and your wife receive should be used before the expiry date, to avoid any fee's etc.

They probably were going to use it before the expiry date.

The point is that using it before the expiry date does not necessarily avoid fees.
It has to be used within one year from the date of purchase to avoid fees.

The expiry date printed on the card is longer than that, a minimum of 2 and a half years.


Edit: This post is obselete now, as I have just seen above post by corner back 2.
However, I didn't see it before posting my reply, as I didn't refresh the page.

The Lovely Muffin

emanresu wrote: »

They probably were going to use it before the expiry date.

According to the link posted by Copacetic the monthly €3 euros fee starts at month thirteen, hence why one would assume that the voucher is past the printed expiry date.

Screen cap from that link.



Perhaps the OP could confirm whether or not the voucher is or is not past the printed expiry date. Ifit is not past the printed expiry date then the OP needs to contact Dundrum to find out why they are being charged €3 per month.

emanresu wrote: »

The expiry date printed on the card is longer than that, a minimum of 2 and a half years.

Have you a link to this information please? Or know where I might find it.

Google isn't bringing up any results.

Although I came across these links, there is nothing to suggest there is a law or anything stating that gift voucher are valid for a minimum of two and a half years.

http://www.nca.ie/index.jsp?a=334&n=164&p=130

http://www.nca.ie/nca/voucherexpiry

I do understand that some places to have vouchers that are valid for a minimum of two years, as far as I am aware, that is down to the actual shop/business to decide, and not a law. I would be interested to know if there is a law.

corner back 2 wrote: »

We were trying to spend it before the expiry date. Yes there is those two words again .... EXPIRY DATE. Yes that means the date by which any normal thinking, reasonable, person would believe that they have to use the full value of a gift card. If there is a problem with going beyond 12 or 13 months why not put an expiry date(those two words again!) of 12 months on the card. Then I would use it before the expiry date(again!). Why dont they? The answer is so that they can steal money from you or realistically form the person who gives you a gift card. That my friends is a scam. Hope the job in dundrum is going well. Probably should sign off before I get banned.:mad:

So the card/voucher is out of date, and you are accusing Dundrum of "stealing" and "scamming" money from you/whoever bought the card even though the terms and conditions are clearly written on Dundum's website which you didn't read.

There is no scam or stealing going on here OP, Dundrum have stated clearly on their website about charges that start thirteen months after a voucher is given to you.

It is up to you and no one else to inform you of any terms and conditions regarding vouchers.

I still believe it is fair and reasonable to expect to pay charges regardless of how much they are if you don't use a voucher/card that is past the expiry date.

emanresu

The Lovely Muffin wrote: »

...
Have you a link to this information please? Or know where I might find it.
...

It's also in copacetic's link in post number 3.
In paragraph 6, "Cancellation and expiry of your Prepaid Card",
towards the end of the paragraph, it says:
"Your Prepaid Card will be valid for a minimum of 2.5 years."

The Lovely Muffin

emanresu wrote: »

It's also in copacetic's link in post number 3.
In paragraph 6, "Cancellation and expiry of your Prepaid Card",
towards the end of the paragraph, it says:
"Your Prepaid Card will be valid for a minimum of 2.5 years."

Thank you.

The OP needs to print out that information and bring it into Dundrum and show it to whoever deals with the gift cards/vouchers and also show them the information about the fee's and see what they say.

Or it could simply mean that the card can be used for up to two and a half years, with fee's starting on the thirteenth month and after the two and a half years the card can no longer be used or the balance transferred to another card/voucher.

emanresu

The Lovely Muffin wrote: »

Thank you.

The OP needs to print out that information and bring it into Dundrum and show it to whoever deals with the gift cards/vouchers and also show them the information about the fee's and see what they say.

Or it could simply mean that the card can be used for up to two and a half years, with fee's starting on the thirteenth month and after the two and a half years the card can no longer be used or the balance transferred to another card/voucher.

For this particular card, the "Expiry Date" and the date when fees start to be charged are two different things.

nibtrix

emanresu wrote: »

For this particular card, the "Expiry Date" and the date when fees start to be charged are two different things.

Which I'm sure everyone will admit is a pretty shitty thing to do, although not unfortunately illegal as the original card/envelope/booklet will probably have listed this info in tiny tiny print.

silentfox

It is clear to me that the T&Cs were not read, you only have yourself to blame for this, unfortunately.

Pablo Sanchez

When i have previously had one of these cards there was a small flyer included in the little card folder, which had the information re the managment fee printed on it.

corner back 2

silentfox wrote: »

It is clear to me that the T&Cs were not read, you only have yourself to blame for this, unfortunately.

Will say again didnt buy the card myself. It was a gift and in the absence of any other information we went by the expiry date(those two words again). Once again my problem is that if it is such a problem to go over 13 months with a gift card why do they just not print that date on it? Then you can spend it by then or lose the complete value if you dont. I believe the reason they operate this system is that most cards are gifts and the people who buy them dont know that the recipients may not receive the full value of the card through no fault of their own.

Mister Dread

Gift cards are the devil and should really be avoided at all costs.

compsys

corner back 2 wrote: »

Will say again didnt buy the card myself. It was a gift and in the absence of any other information we went by the expiry date(those two words again). Once again my problem is that if it is such a problem to go over 13 months with a gift card why do they just not print that date on it? Then you can spend it by then or lose the complete value if you dont. I believe the reason they operate this system is that most cards are gifts and the people who buy them dont know that the recipients may not receive the full value of the card through no fault of their own.

Well the person who gave you the card/voucher as a gift should have found out this information and then mentioned it to you when they were giving you the present. That's what I would have done.

Also, why didn't you use the voucher within a year? I know if that were me I'd probably have been down to the centre within days to spend it, even if it were just on groceries!

Also, a very quick glance of the Dundrum website clearly shows that: after one year from the date of purchase a monthly fee of €3 is deducted from remaining balances.

I can understand why you would be annoyed about this and I would be too but I don't really think it's fair to label the Centre as scam artists.

Perhaps sending Dundrum an email about this rather than venting your anger on here would be more appropriate? You could suggest that in future the cards themselves should have both an expiry date and reference to the fact that a charge applies after one year?

juan.kerr

You can check the balance here: http://www.perfectcard.ie/PerfectCard004_Live05/AccountEnquiry.aspx

I got one of these from a friend for the Blanchardstown Shopping Centre as a house warming gift and have another one from Dundrum in front of me. They are basically a prepaid credit card from Mastercard. I ended up using the first one online on a few sites (amazon.co.uk, sendit among others). The card has all the details required to use online.

jor el

corner back 2 wrote: »

Will say again didnt buy the card myself. It was a gift and in the absence of any other information we went by the expiry date(those two words again).

The information would have come with the card, so it is the gift givers fault for not passing this on to you, or not telling you. The gift card suppliers cannot be responsible for what other people do.

The giver might also have presumed that you wouldn't wait over a year to use the gift card.

In any event, there is nothing wrong with what was done. The T&Cs are there, and either you or the giver are at fault for not checking what these were. The expiry date on the card isn't everything. Upon receiving one of these pre-pay credit card style gift cards for the first time it would be natural to check out how and where it can be used, instead of putting it away for over a year and blindly making assumptions about it.

galwayjohn89

All the information comes on the black sleeve the card came in, or in the case of a last year on a white slip accompanying the gift card in the envelope. It is also written on the back of the card. You have no-one but yourself to blame. The card itself expires on the end of the month written on the card, but there is a fee after 12 months. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that.

BrianE

Vuzuggu wrote: »

All the information comes on the black sleeve the card came in, or in the case of a last year on a white slip accompanying the gift card in the envelope. It is also written on the back of the card. You have no-one but yourself to blame. The card itself expires on the end of the month written on the card, but there is a fee after 12 months. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that.

In my humble opinion, most T&Cs and small print are designed not to be read. If most of the above contributors honesty read every piece of small print related to every product they purchase, I would very surprised. Important info such as fees should be included clearly with the product (and I'm talking ethically, not legally)

I myself will not be spending my life reading every T&C - just as most politicians don't read every law they pass.

whippet

BrianE wrote: »

I myself will not be spending my life reading every T&C - just as most politicians don't read every law they pass.

Not reading the T&Cs is up to yourself .. but unfortunately you can't then act surprised when you realize something was in the T&Cs that you chose not to read and it comes back to bite you in the ass.

Dodge

BrianE wrote: »

In my humble opinion, most T&Cs and small print are designed not to be read. If most of the above contributors honesty read every piece of small print related to every product they purchase, I would very surprised. Important info such as fees should be included clearly with the product (and I'm talking ethically, not legally)

I myself will not be spending my life reading every T&C - just as most politicians don't read every law they pass.

You've spent a couple of minutes moaning about T&Cs, maybe you could use that time more productively. Like reading T&Cs and not moaning about them

BrianE

whippet wrote: »

BrianE wrote: »

I myself will not be spending my life reading every T&C - just as most politicians don't read every law they pass.

Not reading the T&Cs is up to yourself .. but unfortunately you can't then act surprised when you realize something was in the T&Cs that you chose not to read and it comes back to bite you in the ass.

I AM surprised that some companies rely on their T&Cs to make extra cash, rather than creating a strong product which sells itself - thus reducing negative feedback on sites such as this.

What surprises me also, is the high proportion of posts containing the phrase "It is your own fault" or the likes, and very few expressing disappropriation or commiseration.

It is unethical to throw sneaky fees into T&Cs (IMHO). Where is the trust?

Dodge

Its a consumer forum, so people deal with the facts. Saying "jeez, unlucky OP" doesn't change the fact that the charges are legitimate and laid out to the buyer

The reason they exist, and their 'ethical' status, are irrelevent. Was the OP looking for sympathy or some advice on whether they had a case?

slowmoe

I bought one of these for my mother a long while back. When i purchased the 3euro pm deduction was not in place. I had been told that it would never expire and if the 'mastercard' expired the balance would just be reissued on a different card. There was about 250 on the card.

I specifically asked about the expiry because i wouldn't have a clue when my mother would be in Dundrum and be able to spend it. To this i was told no problem at all. Fast forward to their introduction of this rule and my mother gets the card rejected for a purchase of just under 100 euro. She went up to the desk who told her this had been introduced and nearly the entire value of the voucher had gone on this. When i rang to complain that i was told there was no expiration the girl (who was quite rude with a very poor tone) said that they now have a sign on the gift card desk to inform people of the change. I went into complain and wrote in but only received that response.

Guy:Incognito

slowmoe wrote: »

I bought one of these for my mother a long while back. When i purchased the 3euro pm deduction was not in place. I had been told that it would never expire and if the 'mastercard' expired the balance would just be reissued on a different card. There was about 250 on the card.

I specifically asked about the expiry because i wouldn't have a clue when my mother would be in Dundrum and be able to spend it. To this i was told no problem at all. Fast forward to their introduction of this rule and my mother gets the card rejected for a purchase of just under 100 euro. She went up to the desk who told her this had been introduced and nearly the entire value of the voucher had gone on this. When i rang to complain that i was told there was no expiration the girl (who was quite rude with a very poor tone) said that they now have a sign on the gift card desk to inform people of the change. I went into complain and wrote in but only received that response.

How old is that card?
€250 at €3 a month is 83 months. Plus the original 12 would be more months than the centre has been open. Thats a long time to hold on to a voucher.

Similarly, the OP had €50 . €33 is 11 months meaning the OP held on to the card for 2 years befre tryign to use it.