Problem at work - Advice needed

Storminateacup

Hi, I work in an envirnoment where my managers attitude is "nobody is irreplaceable" and she's right. In my field, we are all replaceable. However, Im very unhappy in my job and feel that Im being taken complete advantage of. I live quite a distance from work (travel 2 hours there and two home) and on Christmas week, I was treated appaulingly.

That Saturday (17th) my manager wrote my hours for the week down for me. It went something along the lines of
Monday - off
Tuesday - 9-9
Wednesday - 9- 9
Thursday - 10-7
Friday - 9- 9
Saturday - 8 - 3

On Monday I recieve a call at 10:02 from the receptionist askin me if I was on my way to work. I say no, that it's my day off. She tells me that it's not and that I'm supposed to be in at 10 and to get in ASAP. I remind her of my hours and she says she will ring the manager. She rings back saying there was a mistake and says I need to come to work as soon as possible, and to ring my manager. I called the manager who told me I was in "well your hours are wrong", and to get in as soon as possible.

I arrived in at 2pm and handed the manager my sheet of hours, she later thanked me for coming in as they were stuck and people had called in sick and said she would make sure I got a day off. She later wrote another set of hours down for me, this time giving me Thursday off.

On Wednesday morning another girl called in sick and this prompted a staff meeting with the manager and she told us all she was sick of us all and she had enough of us and none of us were irreplaceable and that there were no more days off for anyone until Christmas day. So, my day off was taken from me. (the only member of staff that hadn't called in sick to have her day taken) however staff on Friday took their day and despite everyone being told they had to work Xmas eve, it was me and the two girls who had called in sick.

This morning I recieved a text from my manager that read "everyone in this afternoon at 3 to clean, no excuses, you were all told about this before Christmas".
4hrs 40 minutes notice. I was definately not told verbally about this however the manager said there was a sign in the staff room. I don't recall seeing it however I'm not disputing it being there.
It ended up with her telling me that I obviously have a huge problem with having to come in and not to bother and shell have a serious chat with me tomorrow (read: fire)
I text her back and say that I don't have a huge problem with it, i just felt I was treated unfairly Christmas week and that if she wanted me in at 3 I'd be in at 3, it was just short notice.
She replied again with "no I don't want you to come in you obviously have a huge problem with it. As a manager I decide who works what and I will have a serious talk with you in the morning".

I'm not upset if she fires me, to be honest, that job makes me so unhappy and it's a horrid place to work however, a jobs a job and I'm just wondering can she do this? I do not have a contract signed

looksee

Just my opinion, and not worth much, but I reckon she is someone who will pick on and fight with the mild and reasonable people because she doesn't know how to handle the skivers and the aggressive ones.

If you feel you have nothing to lose, go in on the attack, don't give her an inch. She can't sack everyone at the same time, it would be too much trouble to train a new lot in. Meantime, look for another job.

marketty

Jesus that is feckin ridiculous. Have you any access to higher management, ie can you go over her head and tell them about her horrible attitude?
If you're not bothered about getting fired I'd go in all guns blazin!!

Storminateacup

No access to a higher manager as the owner of the business lives in America and leaves the running of the business to my manager. My manager seems quite proud of the fact that she's a "physco", her own words to describe herself, not mine. She is 22 years old and seems to feed off staff terror.

Here is a direct copy of messages exchanged this morning

Everyone in at 3 pm today no excuses u all knew about this be for christmas I told u we would all be in to help clean. 3pm see u then

What

What do u not understand from that message ?

This is the first I've heard of it, and 4hrs 40 minutes is a little short notice.


There was a sign up in the staff room for the last week of wrk.

Well fair enough if there was. The only sign I recall seeing was the masking sign, saying everyone was masking on Xmas eve however there was only 3 of us. See you at 3.

I the manager only wanted 3 ppl in on christmas eve. u seem to have a hugh problem with having to come in so ill tell u what don't come in and ill talk to u tommorow.

About christmas eve, as a manager im aware its your decision who works what, but i do feel I was treated unfairly that week and I am a little disappointed with having to come in, I don't recall seeing the notice however I'm not disputing it being there. If you want me to be there at 3, I will be there.

No I don't want u to come in like I said u obviously have a huge problem with it even though uv just been off for a full two weeks. Ur right as the manager I decide who works what. U were not treated unfairly one bit like I said ill have a serious talk wih you tommorow.

I don't have a huge problem with it, I just didn't realise we were in today, and I have some sort of bug since Friday. It's fine if you don't want me to come in. I will see you tomorrow then.

Was I out of line, is she right? Where do I stand

xsiborg

hi OP, first of all, i would strongly disagree with your managers assertion that you are easily replaceable. to put it quite bluntly, and with no disrespect meant to you personally, but your manager will find that people who allow themselves to be treated like doormats, such as yourself, are quite hard to find!

second of all, there are plenty of jobs out there that will not require you to sacrifice your dignity or self respect.

the problem here is simply that your manager lacks the most basic management skills, from being unable to communicate effectively, to attitude towards staff, they've got it completely wrong.

the hours you are working also seem to suggest that your company is short staffed, again due to bad management, nobody should ever have to call in sick just to get a day off.

in short OP, this situation isnt going to be resolved while your manager carries that attitude, and while i know you really need the job for financial reasons, your sanity and self respect are worth ten times any financial remuneration.

being fired might be the best thing that would happen to you as it will force you to look for another job rather than staying where you are and letting your morale and motivation be chipped away slowly on a daily basis.

i see far too many people nowadays like yourself OP who due to fear of the unknown and the current economic climate are unwilling to take the risk of getting themselves out of a rut and therefore stay and become even more miserable, allowing themselves to be exploited simply because they want to work and 'a job is a job', not when its getting you down like that its not, there's always a better job! get out OP before you allow yourself to be dragged down any further by an incompetent 'manager' with a bad attitude towards their own employment, no people skills, and no communication skills.

ps- just a small aside, but never text, always at least call them back if they text, as not only is texting a very unprofessional form of communication, but the message content can be easily misconstrued or taken out of context by either party.

Rhys Essien

Your manager is only 22,what the fcuk.Surely at that age you would not have the work/life experience to be in control of other people.From what I can see the girl is acting very immature.
Is she a relation to the owner of the company by any chance?

P.S. Remind her that it is not very professional for management to be texting staff and that she should be speaking to ye directly.

smcgiff

Devil's advocate....

I don't read from this you are going to be fired.

You driving two hours to and from work is irrelevant from your manager's pov

Is there a huge problem with absenteeism and your manager is having trouble with required staffing?


There are issues with the manager for sure...

xsiborg

smcgiff wrote: »

Devil's advocate....

I don't read from this you are going to be fired.

You driving two hours to and from work is irrelevant from your manager's pov

Is there a huge problem with absenteeism and your manager is having trouble with required staffing?


There are issues with the manager for sure...

smcgiff that wasnt devils advocate, that was nail on the head, the OP wont be fired simply because her manager seems to like the idea that they can instill fear in people, making the mistake of equating fear with respect. if they fire the OP, then thats one less person that fears them. i hate to sound trivial but the manager in this case really does come off as too immature and too irresponsible to be in a position of authority, coming off a bit like Cartman from South Park ('respect mah authorita!').

i dont think the managers age is relevant as i have seen plenty of 22 year old's that were mature enough and level headed enough to be able to handle positions of responsibility, the manager in this particular case seems to be in WAY over her head and is taking out her frustrations on her staff.

like i said though, i can't see this situation changing for the OP unless they change the situation they're in themselves.

Storminateacup

smcgiff wrote: »

Devil's advocate....

I don't read from this you are going to be fired.

You driving two hours to and from work is irrelevant from your manager's pov

Is there a huge problem with absenteeism and your manager is having trouble with required staffing?


There are issues with the manager for sure...

Hi Smcgiff.
I would hope youre right. I have spent all morning applying for other jobs, in different fields, because I really don't care what I work at as long as I can get out of there. But I am thinking I will be fired as a number of staff have been fired for the same, and she did threaten us at the staff meeting that if one of us didn't turn up for work, they need not bother coming back.

I understand that my living so far from work doesnt matter to my manager, but it does mean that I am not physically capable of clicking my fingers and magically being available to come in on demand. Had I known I was supposed to be in today, I would have been in. Her texting at 9:20 did not leave me a lot of time. However, she is saying we were told (definately not told verbally) and that there was a notice in the staff room (which im not disputing, but i do not remember seeing it)

There isnt a high rate of absenteeism really, but there is a very high rate of staff turnover, and this has been remarked to me at least once a day with clients that I deal with.

She had trouble over christmas week as she overbooked clients and had us all on a tight ship, no room for error. There was a bug going around work that week too, and I was ill on monday anyway, 2 people called in sick, it was my day off and despite being ill, i came in anyway. One of the girls was out on tuesday too, and one of the girls came in. On wednesday, the girl out tuesday came back in, and the girl that was missing rang in sick again. However, the manager made her come in for a staff meeting. Thats when she demanded that everybody work for the rest of the week and reminded us that there was plenty of other therapists who would be more than willing to replace us.

As the hours were very long, I think people played up that week, calling in sick as to get their shopping done, or whatever. However, I wasnt one of them and apparently the manager was well within her rights to have us work 6 days, as it was christmas. What really annoyed me, was that essentially, I was the only therapist who worked the 6 days.

Storminateacup

xsiborg wrote: »

ps- just a small aside, but never text, always at least call them back if they text, as not only is texting a very unprofessional form of communication, but the message content can be easily misconstrued or taken out of context by either party.

I agree that texting is unprofessional, and I would generally prefer to speak to a manager, be it me being late or calling in sick, but I know what she is like and would much rather written evidence when dealing with her, rather than verbal. Such as why I ask her to write my hours down... when she gets them wrong, im still expected to be in work. I am not telapathic.

westendgirlie

OP, tomorrow at work I would bring the conversation to her and not wait for her to approach you.

State that you understand that staff absenteeism must be a headache to manage and that you came into work on your scheduled day off to help out. But STRESS to her that you don't appreciate the tone of her texts. Tell her you will help out with staff rotas if she needs a hand.

Be calm and nice when you chat to her. Sounds like this manager has alienated herself from everyone else and her people skills have got lost somewhere.

Above all remember she cannot fire you without using the correct procedure. Verbal, 1st Written & 2nd Written Warnings.

Oh yeah, I counted up your hours above. It came to 52hr without allowing for breaks. Then you worked on the Monday you were off. Are you getting overtime in your pay?

xsiborg

Storminateacup wrote: »

smcgiff wrote: »

Devil's advocate....

I don't read from this you are going to be fired.

You driving two hours to and from work is irrelevant from your manager's pov

Is there a huge problem with absenteeism and your manager is having trouble with required staffing?


There are issues with the manager for sure...

Hi Smcgiff.
I would hope youre right. I have spent all morning applying for other jobs, in different fields, because I really don't care what I work at as long as I can get out of there. But I am thinking I will be fired as a number of staff have been fired for the same, and she did threaten us at the staff meeting that if one of us didn't turn up for work, they need not bother coming back.

I understand that my living so far from work doesnt matter to my manager, but it does mean that I am not physically capable of clicking my fingers and magically being available to come in on demand. Had I known I was supposed to be in today, I would have been in. Her texting at 9:20 did not leave me a lot of time. However, she is saying we were told (definately not told verbally) and that there was a notice in the staff room (which im not disputing, but i do not remember seeing it)

There isnt a high rate of absenteeism really, but there is a very high rate of staff turnover, and this has been remarked to me at least once a day with clients that I deal with.

She had trouble over christmas week as she overbooked clients and had us all on a tight ship, no room for error. There was a bug going around work that week too, and I was ill on monday anyway, 2 people called in sick, it was my day off and despite being ill, i came in anyway. One of the girls was out on tuesday too, and one of the girls came in. On wednesday, the girl out tuesday came back in, and the girl that was missing rang in sick again. However, the manager made her come in for a staff meeting. Thats when she demanded that everybody work for the rest of the week and reminded us that there was plenty of other therapists who would be more than willing to replace us.

As the hours were very long, I think people played up that week, calling in sick as to get their shopping done, or whatever. However, I wasnt one of them and apparently the manager was well within her rights to have us work 6 days, as it was christmas. What really annoyed me, was that essentially, I was the only therapist who worked the 6 days.

storminateacup i hadnt realised is it psychiatric nursing you are working in or counselling? i would suggest you leave as soon as possible because your manager has created an untenable situation where they are not only putting your mental health at risk, but also that of your clients.

Storminateacup

Its standard pay for over time. Allowing for breaks we are allowed 40 minutes if we work 12 hours, which breaks down to 2 20 minutes, and 20 minutes if we work 9 hours.

The hours I ended up working was
Monday, 2-9 (no break)
Tuesday, 9-9 (40 mins)
Wednesday, 9-9 (40 mins)
Thursday, 12 - 8:20 (no break)
Friday, 9-9 (40 mins)
Saturday, 8-2:30

Also, with the breaks, we are not allowed to leave the premises for our entire break as we might be needed to take an over booked appointment. Despite being on break, you must inform the receptionist where you are going at all times.

Also, on thursday, I was told I could leave an hour early as I was upset at having teh day taken off me (i have a 7 month old daughter and had no shopping done for anyone else) but despite being off at 8, i was given a client at 7 for a treatment that was scheduled for 2 hours. I told the receptionist that I was off at 8 and she replied "well you may hurry and get it done". I did hurry, but did not leave until 8:20 and will not be paid for those 20 minutes.

Storminateacup

xsiborg wrote: »

storminateacup i hadnt realised is it psychiatric nursing you are working in or counselling? i would suggest you leave as soon as possible because your manager has created an untenable situation where they are not only putting your mental health at risk, but also that of your clients.

Oh gosh no its nothing like that, its just beauty therapy.

westendgirlie

Storminateacup wrote: »

Its standard pay for over time. Allowing for breaks we are allowed 40 minutes if we work 12 hours, which breaks down to 2 20 minutes, and 20 minutes if we work 9 hours.

The hours I ended up working was
Monday, 2-9 (no break)
Tuesday, 9-9 (40 mins)
Wednesday, 9-9 (40 mins)
Thursday, 12 - 8:20 (no break)
Friday, 9-9 (40 mins)
Saturday, 8-2:30

Also, with the breaks, we are not allowed to leave the premises for our entire break as we might be needed to take an over booked appointment. Despite being on break, you must inform the receptionist where you are going at all times.

Also, on thursday, I was told I could leave an hour early as I was upset at having teh day taken off me (i have a 7 month old daughter and had no shopping done for anyone else) but despite being off at 8, i was given a client at 7 for a treatment that was scheduled for 2 hours. I told the receptionist that I was off at 8 and she replied "well you may hurry and get it done". I did hurry, but did not leave until 8:20 and will not be paid for those 20 minutes.

It sounds like someone needs to take a bit of control of the appointments. As that client booked for 7pm I wouldn't be impressed with paying for a 2hr therapy only for it to last 1hr20m! Ever thought about managing the place yourself? If I were you, I would come up with a better idea for the appointments book and put that idea forward.

barrmur

I have not got a legal background but as far as I know your company/shop is breaking the law in relation to the breaks you are given. I thin you have to be given a break of some sort every 4 hours. In some of those shifts you are working 7 hours straight.

OP don't back down on this one. If anything you will have a case of constructive dismissal if she decides to fire you.

Storminateacup wrote: »

Its standard pay for over time. Allowing for breaks we are allowed 40 minutes if we work 12 hours, which breaks down to 2 20 minutes, and 20 minutes if we work 9 hours.

The hours I ended up working was
Monday, 2-9 (no break)
Tuesday, 9-9 (40 mins)
Wednesday, 9-9 (40 mins)
Thursday, 12 - 8:20 (no break)
Friday, 9-9 (40 mins)
Saturday, 8-2:30

Also, with the breaks, we are not allowed to leave the premises for our entire break as we might be needed to take an over booked appointment. Despite being on break, you must inform the receptionist where you are going at all times.

Also, on thursday, I was told I could leave an hour early as I was upset at having teh day taken off me (i have a 7 month old daughter and had no shopping done for anyone else) but despite being off at 8, i was given a client at 7 for a treatment that was scheduled for 2 hours. I told the receptionist that I was off at 8 and she replied "well you may hurry and get it done". I did hurry, but did not leave until 8:20 and will not be paid for those 20 minutes.

xsiborg

westendgirlie wrote: »

Storminateacup wrote: »

Its standard pay for over time. Allowing for breaks we are allowed 40 minutes if we work 12 hours, which breaks down to 2 20 minutes, and 20 minutes if we work 9 hours.

The hours I ended up working was
Monday, 2-9 (no break)
Tuesday, 9-9 (40 mins)
Wednesday, 9-9 (40 mins)
Thursday, 12 - 8:20 (no break)
Friday, 9-9 (40 mins)
Saturday, 8-2:30

Also, with the breaks, we are not allowed to leave the premises for our entire break as we might be needed to take an over booked appointment. Despite being on break, you must inform the receptionist where you are going at all times.

Also, on thursday, I was told I could leave an hour early as I was upset at having teh day taken off me (i have a 7 month old daughter and had no shopping done for anyone else) but despite being off at 8, i was given a client at 7 for a treatment that was scheduled for 2 hours. I told the receptionist that I was off at 8 and she replied "well you may hurry and get it done". I did hurry, but did not leave until 8:20 and will not be paid for those 20 minutes.

It sounds like someone needs to take a bit of control of the appointments. As that client booked for 7pm I wouldn't be impressed with paying for a 2hr therapy only for it to last 1hr20m! Ever thought about managing the place yourself? If I were you, I would come up with a better idea for the appointments book and put that idea forward.

OP it sounds like the business as a whole is run rather informally, i know its beyond the scope of the thread but i cant help but wonder what the business owner was thinking leaving their business in the hands of an obviously immature and incapable person.

i honestly doubt your manager will be open to suggestions from you, or any of her staff for that matter, on how to improve employee rotas or client schedules, that would require time management skills, which sadly your manager also seems to be lacking.

you mentioned earlier how clients have commented on staff turnover, that kind of thing gets around fast, and doesnt bode well for the reputation of the business, i'd suggest you keep your head down for now and never mind going down the messy legal route, just get out of there asap, and chalk it down to experience. any business being run like that doesnt sound like it'll be able to keep going much longer, and then you'll be out of a job anyway if you stay.

perhaps OP, again outside the scope of the thread, and i apologise for veering off like this (i only wandered into this forum off the front page!), but have you considered the self employed route? i see many beauticians and hairdressers working from home, and perhaps it might be no harm to talk to your local enterprise board about the feasibility of you working as a freelance beautician, perhaps even from home, i found my local enterprise board to be more than helpful when i started my business and i work from home! i just thought i'd throw that out there as another possible alternative employment route...

westendgirlie

Storminateacup wrote: »

I've applied everywhere for a job this morning and hope something will come of it but I'm pretty sure that she will fire me tomorrow and I'm just wondering if she can legally do this.

She can only fire you for the following:

1. You already have written warnings
2. You are still on your trail period
3. You arrive in tomorrow drunk or drugged up
4. You attack a colleague or client

If you have none of the above but she fires you tomorrow. Get home and contact NERA straight away. It will be no skin off your nose nor affect future jobs as you would never get a decent reference anyway.

Ps: If you live anywhere near me I'd love a facial and would happily be the first customer of your own business venture. G'luck tomorrow

Storminateacup

Thank you westendgirlie,

I think I'm on a trial period. This was never discussed when given the job, never brought up or mentioned and I have no contract signed.

I will let you know how I get on.

NicsM

Storminateacup wrote: »

Thank you westendgirlie, <3

I think I'm on a trial period. This was never discussed when given the job, never brought up or mentioned and I have no contract signed.

I will let you know how I get on.

How long have you been employed there Storm? It sounds like you're having a really rough time of it but, as one other poster said, the breaks you are being given are not in line with legal requirements-you are entitled to something like one 15 minute break after 4.5 hours work, 30 mins after 6 hours and an hour for 8 hours work. Having worked in a busy salon myself I know this is sometimes unrealistic but it sounds like you're already over-worked.

I'd be very firm meeting with her tomorrow-she is using a typical (and naive) management tactic of trying to keep employees in fear, be as calm and clear as possible and if she presents you with a vague list of disrepancies, ask for specifics. If she wants a serious chat, then give her one.

Best of luck!

cdaly_

With regards to being called in on days off, I would not answer the phone nor respond to texts on a day off. It's your own time and you have no obligation to make yourself available...

Storminateacup

But, cdaly, as far as she's concerned, it was not my day off.

westendgirlie

Storminateacup wrote: »

But, cdaly, as far as she's concerned, it was not my day off.

Get to bed! You have a 2 hour drive in the morning.

Storminateacup

I'm in bed. I can't sleep though, i feel really sad, and it's not even about tomorrow.

I know she will have me work tomorrow and "speak" to me tomorrow evening which I will do my best to avoid. I'll ask to speak with her 1st thing as if she's going to fire me, I'll be leaving her high and dry.

westendgirlie

Don't be sad x

lestat21

Bad management on a power trip... Best of luck and keep the head up

hondasam

Hi Storm
You manager is out of order here, she obviously has no people's skills and has no respect for her staff.
I know your travel arrangements are not her concern but she should be more sympathetic to them.
The business you work in I would imagine is extremely stressful and busy Christmas week but this is no excuse for the way she treated you.
My advice is talk to her in a reasonable manner and keep your dignity.

smcgiff

Any update?

Storminateacup

Basically after a long meeting (that I initated) she told me she did not want to lose me... That's the very short version, I'll post more detail when I get online properly

pool8

keep a close eye on her as she will surely slip back to her wicked ways. with regards to your breaks its not a prison or would a letter from a parent allow you to leave the premises.mention legal action next time she decides to spout off and finally emotional bullying isnt tolerated in any workplace. so chin up and smile:

looksee

I hope there is going to be a good outcome for you OP, but do remember that this is a public forum and stranger things have happened than your supervisor finding this. I would love to hear how things go for you, but basically that's just me being nosey, the situation is getting a bit specific now, so take care.

Seve OB

Wow, this is horendus

Storm, I would love to take this weapon on on your behalf!

Firstly I think there must be something in the working time act about the hours. I thought nobody should ever be expected to work more than 48 hours per week.

Also you must be entitled to overtime pay rates... Or else don't do it, but legally I expect you are, and they can't make you stay late without pay.

I think you need to speak to your other colleagues and double check the clean up day to see if they knew about it, but also to find out if they have.similar problems.

I think then you need to make a complaint to the company owners or whoever is your bosses boss. Find out how to contact them and write them a letter, email or call them.

Go to the labour courts. It won't cost you anything as far as i know, but I'm not sure how to go about it. surely someone here can help in a legal forum somewhere

I think your boss sounds like a jumped up little git who has just come straight from college where she studied management and thinks she knows everything. Except nobody taught her how to be human! I've seen and heard of lots of people like this. College can teach you sms things but life itself can teach you so much more.

Ps I wouldn't worry to much about text as a means of contact but I would definately not be at her beck and call, esp as you live so far away.

Best of luck with the little weapon and let us know the outcome