Bad news for drinkers. FG/Labour to introduce minimum prices!

FatherLen

Weathercheck wrote: »

Perhaps your ignorance is why we have such a problem.

for a moderator you sure know how to tactfully discuss an issue without resorting to petty insults.

ninebeanrows

cojomo2 wrote: »

Do you drink yourself?

Yes and i would put my hands up and say i am a binge drinker, and every single one of my friends, their friends etc are also binge drinkers and i realise there is a real issue.

overshoot

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

In fairness, it's not just boards. The entire country is filled with people who don't want to even discuss the possibility Ireland has a serious drink problem. Anyone who brings it up is just, after all, a dry arsed auld *****.

personally iv always seen it as they elevate drink to a taboo luxury but an affordable one. go abroad, all these coffee shops people claim we should have all sell drink. its not usual to see someone drinking a beer in the morning as a coffee.
boosting the price, reducing opening hours means then when we go for a pint we go for pints! (resigned to spending money and f all regard is given to money over the night which will only be a few hours). we are limited by government in the interest in health but the reailty is if 24hr nightclubs were there this lifestyle would be unsustainable and a lot more would just go for the 1. plus everyone isnt forced out onto the street and into the chipper at the same time so less fights.

skelliser

Labour traditionally have always done poorly in rural Ireland.
They also realise that they will more then likely lose seats in the next election.

So introduce a minimum price on alcohol to keep the vintners happy and more rural pubs open. That way any loses in the next election could be minimized by gains in more rural areas.

This also helps FG.

People gotta realize that politicians couldnt give toss who pays. Pandoring to the PC "please think of the children" brigade is a lovely excuse and brings good PR.
And also this is a nice stealth tax. So more money to their bondholder friends!

The bottom line is they are only interested in getting re-elected, cronyism and continuing to gorge at the trough of the public purse.

Wise up Boardies!!

DarkJager

FatherLen wrote: »

Weathercheck wrote: »

Perhaps your ignorance is why we have such a problem.

for a moderator you sure know how to tactfully discuss an issue without resorting to petty insults.

We have a problem in this country of people who think they know what's best for everybody else and feel obliged to inflict their thoughts on others to the point of trying to dictate what you can and can't do. I'd prefer these people to take their noses out of my ****ing business, I have no time for self appointed moral guardians.

cojomo2

Weathercheck wrote: »

Yes and i would put my hands up and say i am a binge drinker, and every single one of my friends, their friends etc are also binge drinkers and i realise there is a real issue.

So you are a binge drinker, do you think when this minimum pricing comes in, that will change as a result?

ilovesleep

It's nothing whatsoever to do with teenagers. It's just another tax thieving way of getting more money, without touching their own pockets or the pockets of their mates or the high public sector/civil service incomes.

The law on underage drinking is very much in force so their excuse is very much a load of sh1te.

If the real reason was to help teenagers to keep away from drink they would increase the age of alcohol selling from 18 to 21 like what it is in the states.

Perhaps even having amendities in areas for teenagers to socalise. Why is it only Dublin has all the major concert halls that attrach all the international bands, and fcek all else available around the country except for the royal theatre castlebar and the place down in killarney but those establishments only hold a few hundred attracting kenny rodgers and dolly Parton. No way would they hold numbers for Michael Buble fans/Metallica fans, etc

Having a proper concert hall or two outside from Dublin would do wonders. I suppose development here in this country was only for housing estates, many now empty or shopping centres and hotels with such new developments also empty, gone into recievership, Nama.

Jim_Kiy

Its a tax pure and simple that yet again will have the most effect on the most vulnerable families.All to easy to say its a luxury for some its a necessity
This has nothing to with under-age drinking and anyone who argues it is clearly deluded.Could they not have banned advertising? stop getting events sponsored by drink companies? No be cause the loss of revenue would be huge.

c_man

Great news for the publicans of Ireland. Pubs went through as rough patch but thankfully successive governments have been very helpful in doing their absolute best to help out the industry.

ninebeanrows

cojomo2 wrote: »

So you are a binge drinker, do you think when this minimum pricing comes in, that will change as a result?

The price would have to go up by a decent bit further to impact me. But it would have a bigger effect on people from 13-20 who have less spare cash.

And these are the people that should be targeted first.

Herb Powell

Weathercheck wrote: »

The above sentiment is all that is wrong about Ireland.

Alright raising the price may not have a huge affect but hopefully it would have some impact on the major drinking problem in this country.

At least a government is going to make some sort of move and signal they are ready and willing to tackle the problem.

Simple economics would indicate that young drinkers have a higher sensitivity to price than older drinkers, so push up the prices, reduce demand. Why not give it a shout? Might save a life or two.

Past governments were all talk but no action.

Come up with some better ideas to change the horrible culture that has manifested itself in this country without moaning and venting at the government who are trying to at least do something to stop the rot.

No, this reactionary bull****.
Just because I can buy a load of drink cheap doesn't mean I'm going to drink it all at once. I do it responsibly, as do many others I'm sure.

Biggins

Sulmac wrote: »

The Scottish law might not be around for too long, as there are concerns it could contravene EU law. The European Court of Justice also ruled that our own minimum price for tobacco contravenes EU law (although in that case it was in clear violation of a specific EU Directive).

From The Guardian:

So it now looks like the government will in the near future be fighting not one but TWO possible European court battles.

The other being the use of possible seen as "forced labour" for those unemployed if they as some suggested, decided to bring that to full fruition. The European Human Rights Act prohibits compulsory or forced labour.

YaY for FG & Labour!
Carrying on FF tradition of jumping from the frying pan into the fire!

bijapos

Weathercheck wrote: »

This is the bullshiet i love reading. Ah yeah a few casual pints me arse. Maybe you do but for such a large percentage this is utter crap, more like 6-12 pints and highly damaging for ones health.

A large percentage? I presume you mean something like 70% so. I've no idea where you live but I can safelt say that the majority of people in this country don't drink to the excess that you mentioned. Young people on a Friday or Saturday night maybe but the vasy majority dont drink to excess.

Weathercheck wrote: »

If you've went out to a pub recently and counted how many of your mates consume more than 4/5 pints in an evening, you'd understand we have a very big problem that affects more than just a small minority.

I would think that most times I go out, say 7 a month I will have 2 or 3, maybe once I'll have 6 or 7. So no I dont think I have a problem with drink. I'm 40 and i speak for the vast majority of my friends and colleagues with these figures. Yes I know people who have a problem with drink, but tbh they have other problems and they use drink (or drugs, hard and soft) to get away from these problems, thing is, when they get up in the morning, the problems are still there.

Jacking up the price of drink helps nobody, teen drinking here is an issue because of various things such as peer pressure, bordeom, and a total lack of facilities for the youth. Some drink because of personal problems and alcohol is an escape but the vast majority drink for the three I mentioned above, and increasing the price of drink will do feck all to help that.

We have amongst the highest priced alcohol in Europe along with some of the strictest opening hours, yet we still have a problem with binge drinking, its a cultural issue and all the price hikes in the world won't stop it.

Biggins

c_man wrote: »

Great news for the publicans of Ireland. Pubs went through as rough patch but thankfully successive governments have been very helpful in doing their absolute best to help out the industry.

What about people that rarely drink in pubs at all - but do so within moderation at home?
Who? Me for example.

I don't get a choice. I'm just being told "Stuff ya! Your paying more. Don't like it? Tough!"

Lord TSC

The law on underage drinking is very much in force so their excuse is very much a load of sh1te.

If the real reason was to help teenagers to keep away from drink they would increase the age of alcohol selling from 18 to 21 like what it is in the states.

Thats nonsense. There's no point upping it to 21 when we don't enforce it at 18 as it is now. How anyone could argue that laws on underage drinking are enforced fully is beyond me...

c_man

Biggins wrote: »

What about people that rarely drink in pubs at all - but do so within moderation at home?
Who? Me for example.

I don't get a choice. I'm just being told "Stuff ya! Your paying more. Don't like it? Tough!"

*Ahem*

cojomo2

Weathercheck wrote: »

The price would have to go up by a decent bit further to impact me. But it would have a bigger effect on people from 13-20 who have less spare cash.

And these are the people that should be targeted first.

How about they have proper laws that are strictly enforced, as well as investing in education, and more facilities to keep younger people occupied ?

So, you have agreed that this minimum pricing won't effect you and others like you , but that it will impact on kids. So instead of taking measures like I suggested, the whole country, in the middle of a recession, has to suffer financially in order to discourage the kids from the drink?

Leo Dowling

Great news for the black market. They already have cigarettes sewn up and now drink. At least it will be more widely available for much cheaper than it is now when this comes in. Great news for Northern retailers too.

congo_90

Simply put it is like when they banned 10 and 15 packs of cigarettes. people just bought 20

Yakult

cojomo2 wrote: »

How about they have proper laws that are strictly enforced, as well as investing in education, and more facilities to keep younger people occupied ?

That's the "hard" right way of doing things and you should know by now our gov. always takes the easier option.

But I agree with what you said, would have alot more benefits doing it the right way.

Duggy747

Lol at the thought that raising prices will curb drinking habits, extra money thinly veiled as a "protecting the yoofs!" agenda. People and kids will stay cough up, much to the delight to the vintners since they've been wanting to tackle the supermarkets for years.

Sorting out facilities / education on drinking for them would be a start, considering if you're not into sports then your younger years are going to be pretty boring. Especially if you live in a town with more pubs than anything else.

The black market will only welcome this news, too.

Biggins

Leo Dowling wrote: »

Great news for the black market. They already have cigarettes sewn up and now drink. At least it will be more widely available for much cheaper than it is now when this comes in. Great news for Northern retailers too.

Yep, but the Vintners Association don't want to hear that or the government don't want to hear it either as they (I suspect) are bowing to the pressure of the Vintners association.

A lot of TD's by the way, own bars and places that serve meals and drinks, in other words, are also part of the leisure industry to some degree!
Nice that their latest move might help them out too, of course.

ilovesleep

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Thats nonsense. There's no point upping it to 21 when we don't enforce it at 18 as it is now. How anyone could argue that laws on underage drinking are enforced fully is beyond me...

That's what I am saying. Their excuse to up the taxes is crock of sh1te. If it was really to keep teenagers away they would up the age limit or provide facitilies for teenagers.

Lord TSC

I don't know if anyone is arguing that this will definitly change attitudes towards drinking as much as people are saying it's a (albeit minor) step in the right direction.

ninebeanrows

bijapos wrote: »

A large percentage? I presume you mean something like 70% so. I've no idea where you live but I can safelt say that the majority of people in this country don't drink to the excess that you mentioned. Young people on a Friday or Saturday night maybe but the vasy majority dont drink to excess.



I would think that most times I go out, say 7 a month I will have 2 or 3, maybe once I'll have 6 or 7. So no I dont think I have a problem with drink. I'm 40 and i speak for the vast majority of my friends and colleagues with these figures. Yes I know people who have a problem with drink, but tbh they have other problems and they use drink (or drugs, hard and soft) to get away from these problems, thing is, when they get up in the morning, the problems are still there.

Jacking up the price of drink helps nobody, teen drinking here is an issue because of various things such as peer pressure, bordeom, and a total lack of facilities for the youth. Some drink because of personal problems and alcohol is an escape but the vast majority drink for the three I mentioned above, and increasing the price of drink will do feck all to help that.

We have amongst the highest priced alcohol in Europe along with some of the strictest opening hours, yet we still have a problem with binge drinking, its a cultural issue and all the price hikes in the world won't stop it.

Well i can assure you the drinking culture for people between 17-25 in Dublin is very very different. The average male student would go out and consume the equivalent of 6-8 pints in a night with a good percentage consuming considerably more combining spirits etc. So there is a serious issue here. And perhaps it doesn't impact the older generation as much.

I do honestly think increasing base price could deter people from buying the quantity of drink they do at the moment. And i think its a small price to pay for the older generation to see the youth of Ireland start to deal with the alcohol problem.

Obviously many more measures are necessary in combination with this measure.

El Weirdo

Weathercheck wrote: »

Yes and i would put my hands up and say i am a binge drinker, and every single one of my friends, their friends etc are also binge drinkers and i realise there is a real issue.

Just because you and your mates have a problem and are unable to drink responsibly, doesn't mean everyone else should be punished.

By using your example here to back up you assertion that 30-50% of the country have a drink problem:

Weathercheck wrote: »

If you've went out to a pub recently and counted how many of your mates consume more than 4/5 pints in an evening, you'd understand we have a very big problem that affects more than just a small minority.

Of the three people in the pub with me, 2 of us had 3 pints. The other two had coffee.

Therefore, using your logic, I have deduced that your assertion is indeed bollocks, 50% of the country drinks coffee whenever they go to the pub and 100% of all pub-goers are male.

Raging_Ninja

I think that the notion of high prices deterring alcohol abuse is a load of rubbish. We have high relative prices, yet the consumption of alcohol is far higher here than it is in countries where the prices are low.

It has little to do with price and more to do with problems in the society. But those are harder to tackle, so instead the Government bends over for the vintners cartel (which has been keeping prices up for years) and introduces a price floor.

Galwayguy35

Yakult wrote: »

It is a big problem that needs to be worked on and I think this is a good step forward.

No harm bringing more money into the countries pocket.

The Governments pocket you mean.

later12

Biggins wrote: »

Shortall says its “crazy” that young people could buy a “slab of beer”, 24 cans, or a bottle of vodka for €12.

Then stamp out underage drinking you daft bint. €3 extra on the price of cheap vodka isn't going to stop some kid from buying it, it just makes the thing more expensive for everyone.

I cannot believe that any member of our parliament, with the exception of Mick Wallace, could be such a buffoon.

ilovesleep

Weathercheck wrote: »

Well i can assure you the drinking culture for people between 17-25 in Dublin is very very different. The average male student would go out and consume the equivalent of 6-8 pints in a night with a good percentage consuming considerably more combining spirits etc. So there is a serious issue here. And perhaps it doesn't impact the older generation as much.

I do honestly think increasing base price could deter people from buying the quantity of drink they do at the moment. And i think its a small price to pay for the older generation to see the youth of Ireland start to deal with the alcohol problem.

Obviously many more measures are necessary in combination with this measure.

IMO responsibilties changes the attitude of drinking and binge drinking. Any body in their right mind who is holding down a full time job that they are passionate about is not out getting drunk. It's just not worth it. A clear head and a refreshing feeling is much better on a monday morning. Even studying a course in an area that one is passionate about would help.
IMO it's a lot better to head out to the cinema or a meal followed by a drink or two.

For many young people, with the economy in the toilet, their futures are uncertain with unemployment high and college fees increasing and they have no sense of responsibilty.

There are few opportunities for young people now.

An army would be great here in this country. Pack a load of youngsters into the army and make it compulsory. That will sort it.