Bad news for drinkers. FG/Labour to introduce minimum prices!

sdanseo

In the form of a tax, I don't really see a problem with this.

But the phrase "minimum price" for ANYTHING is an abhorrent abuse of what should be a free market. The groceries order did this - in effect - and was abolished accordingly.

In either guise, it will not solve the problem. €16 instead of €12 for a cheapy bottle of vodka would not deter anyone I know now, nor would it have deterred them when they were 16 or 17 (6 years ago, wow) when it would probably have cost them that anyway. Meanwhile, minimum wage for their age group has gne up and cost of living has gone down. It may work on the younger kids buying cans but only in quantity - they will still binge drink in fields, albeit perhaps not have such a sore head afterwards. Go figure, they can afford it.

Doc Ruby

Damn near half the TDs in the Dáil were publicans when FF were in power, thats why they called it the publican party, I wonder has it changed since. I'm not a heavy drinker but I don't like seeing anyone abusing their position to line their own pockets, even if ostensibly in the name of public health.

Pedro K

Stained Class wrote: »

Pedro K wrote: »

This measure was in FG's pre election manifesto, and was one of the reasons I didn't vote for FG, so it comes as no surprise to me. Seeing how they've performed in government thus far, I am happy I didn't give them a vote.

But we have to be realistic here.

FF were in power for most of the time this state was created.

They did what they liked because the Irish people voted for them.

See the job they made of it?

Not good.

This Govt have their hands tied as a result.

We have lost a great deal of our independence because of the 'republican' party.

There's a lot more at stake here than the probability of having a cheap drink.

I am being realistic.

I'm well aware of all that, thanks. If you look through my previous posts you'll see that I'm far from a FF supporter. In fact I never have, and never will vote for them, ever. I've written to numerous FF TD's And ministers (when they were in power) expressing my disgust at their stewardship, and this was before everybody else jumped on the anti FF wagon. I don't need to be reminded of the damage they've done to the country.

That doesn't mean that I have to be happy with the current governments performance either.

leeroybrown

Knowing the way things "work" here we'll probably end up with a farce like the UK parliament's minimum price legislation. As I understand it, by the time the minimum pricing finally made it through it was so low that the number of below cost supermarket booze offers it would have effectively have banned was barely in double digits.

Biggins

leeroybrown wrote: »

Knowing the way things "work" here we'll probably end up with a farce like the UK parliament's minimum price legislation...

... As mentioned earlier, they too might be facing a European court battle for doing what our government is proposing to do too!

So after much expensive court time and fees for lawyers, we could be back to square one!

With all these "corners we have rounded" we will have gotten nowhere!

nyan warrior

Vote in the socialists They will make sure that everyone can afford drink

leeroybrown

...and prohibitions on below cost selling are impossible to enforce on big supermarkets due to the incredibly complex nature of their supply chains. Effectively whatever they say is the "cost" is the cost. We could try taking a proper national look at our drinking culture but as it suits no major lobby group and generates no revenue for the exchequer I don't see it happening.

Azureus

There's no point pretending that it's to curb underage or bringe drinking-it's an excuse to raise the price of something end of. I wish the government would just be upfront about these things instead of the smoke and mirrors policies they introduce.

figarofigaro

the government is pimps

Liam Byrne

Pedro K wrote: »

This measure was in FG's pre election manifesto, and was one of the reasons I didn't vote for FG, so it comes as no surprise to me. Seeing how they've performed in government thus far, I am happy I didn't give them a vote.

Making Bondholders face their losses was also in their manifesto. Seems they're very selective about the ones they'll implement - only the ones that hit decent people's pockets.

Biggins

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Making Bondholders face their losses was also in their manifesto. Seems they're very selective about the ones they'll implement - only the ones that hit decent people's pockets.

They are getting another 1.25 BILLION on the 25th of January.

http://www.boomingback.org/2012/01/time-to-hesitate-is-through.html

...payments arising from Anglo alone this year (2012) would account for over 25% of our entire national tax take for 2011, and this is before the bondpayments for AIB, BOI and the others have all been factored in.

Predalien

Minimum pricing is absolute nonsense, by all means increase the tax on certain alcoholic products but at least try and be smart about it. If they added a euro to every bottle of wine they could prob raise a couple of hundred million, all the supermarkets sell below cost anyway so let them absorb some of the tax increase as part of their promotions.

charlietheminxx

I can't believe the stuff that some people will actually believe when it comes from a government!

Simple fact: If they raise the price of a bottle of "value" vodka to 15 euro, and I went halves with a friend on that, with some mixer, I would have change from a tenner. Now I'm in my mid twenties, and a half bottle of vodka would have me pretty drunk (though not completely wasted). What would it do to someone ten years younger than me - who would also easily have a tenner to spare?

Minimum pricing would change fuck all. The problem with this country, as already stated, is a SIGNIFICANT lack of facilities for young people. When I was a teenager, we drank out of boredom. It was something to look forward to, a change of pace. Have their been any additional recreational activities targeted at minors since then? If anything, it seems like there is less (at least when I was a teen there was often underage gigs/battle of the bands etc.)

Price will not change our underage drinking. Underage drinking isn't even the MAIN problem to begin with; the Irish attitude to drinking is. If we introduced drinking to young people in a more casual and moderated way, they might grow up to be more responsible drinkers rather than going mad for it.

mickydoomsux

Biggins wrote: »

They are getting another 1.25 BILLION on the 25th of January.

http://www.boomingback.org/2012/01/time-to-hesitate-is-through.html

Seriously, that link you provided looks like the least reliable source of information ever.

The guy writes about Occupy Dame Street an awful lot. Rabble-rabble crackpot, spouting populist misinformation and providing no alternative other than "tell them all to **** off".

Biggins

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Seriously, that link you provided looks like the least reliable source of information ever.

It is however backed up with links for the information it gives out.
Not just asks you to rely in their word!

If the figures are wrong - please feel free to point them out where!

yupyup7up

-Woah there buddy-

jack presley

Is any decent beer ever under €1.10 anyway? Will it not only be stuff like Dutch Gold that's affected? Surely no one on boards drinks that kind of stuff?

Lord TSC

charlietheminxx wrote: »

The problem with this country, as already stated, is a SIGNIFICANT lack of facilities for young people. When I was a teenager, we drank out of boredom.

I've always wondered about this arguement. I grew up in the same country everyone else did and I didn't find the need to drink out of boredom. Neither did a few of my friends.

Don't get me wrong, the lack of facilities does annoy me; I'd even argue it goes beyond teenagers and up to adults, who seem to spend every night in the pubs and clubs, while theatre scenes or music scenes die a death unless they involve alcohol being sold nearby. But I think boredom is an excuse rather than a cause; we drink heavily as a nation because it's part of our culture and society, and we don't want to be "left out".

gazzer

Nanny state in action once again. Rather than using education as the tool to try and stop so much underage drinking and binge drinking they use a blanket approach that affects the sensible people.

Its just going to mean more and more people go up north to avail of cheap drink.

In addition. Perhaps Roisin Shorthall should look at the fact that in the building where all the decisions are made affecting our future there is a subsidised bar selling alcohol. Maybe the first step would be to ban the sale of alcohol in the dail or does she think that TD's are better able to handle our drink than us mere mortals?

coffee_cake

further proof it's nothing to do with teen drinking:

Fine Gael manifesto:

Supporting Irish Pubs: Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol consumption and the viability of pubs

http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/Fine%20Gael%20Manifesto%20low-res.pdf

Paparazzo

And if the government really wants to cut down teenage drinking, I know a way they could do it significantly overnight: ban alcopops like Smirnoff ice, bacardi breezers and wkd.
Every time some kids are outside a shop asking me to get them drink, it's always one of these.

jack presley

jack presley wrote: »

Is any decent beer ever under €1.10 anyway? Will it not only be stuff like Dutch Gold that's affected? Surely no one on boards drinks that kind of stuff?

There was any amount of 12 for 12 euro or 24 for 24 euro around in the lead up to Christmas on all the well known brands Guinness, carlsberg etc. Bavaria is usually around 1 euro a can too and its a very nice beer imo.

StephenHendry

raising prices isn't going to solve the problem of underage drinking, funny that FG want to support the irish pub for tourism when they have been ripping us for ages and continue to do so

maxfresh

personally i'd tend to binge drink on a night out in a pub/club ,where the prices are four times of what they are in an off licence

usally if drinkin at home i'd get four or five cheap cans (which is most weekend cause im broke)

jack presley

Brenda Greasy Theory wrote: »

jack presley wrote: »

Is any decent beer ever under €1.10 anyway? Will it not only be stuff like Dutch Gold that's affected? Surely no one on boards drinks that kind of stuff?

There was any amount of 12 for 12 euro or 24 for 24 euro around in the lead up to Christmas on all the well known brands Guinness, carlsberg etc. Bavaria is usually around 1 euro a can too and its a very nice beer imo.

Fair enough but 12 for €13.20 or 24 for €26.40 isn't the end of the world is it? It's an extra 10c a can

seanmc1980

raising the price of drink will have no affect on young people drinking

Would it not make more sense to actually enforce the laws that are there at present?
Office licences, pubs and supermarkets are heavily peanilised for selling to underges or even shut down for repeat offeneders.
Unfortunatly this will never happen are the guards and TD's get drink for free in pubs and have no desire to clamp down the illigal activities of said pubs. typical gombeenism alive and well!

Pedro K

Pedro K wrote: »

This measure was in FG's pre election manifesto, and was one of the reasons I didn't vote for FG, so it comes as no surprise to me. Seeing how they've performed in government thus far, I am happy I didn't give them a vote.

bluewolf wrote: »

further proof it's nothing to do with teen drinking:

Fine Gael manifesto:

Supporting Irish Pubs: Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol consumption and the viability of pubs

http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/Fine%20Gael%20Manifesto%20low-res.pdf

Like I said earlier, it was in their manifesto, and was one of the reasons I didn't give them a vote. The particular section that bluewolf has quoted illustrates perfectly that this government is not doing this for the well being of the population, or to curb teen or binge drinking.

They are doing it to protect the publicans, many of whom, as far as I'm concerned, have fallen on their own sword by driving up prices and not improving their service at all.

Thank you, bluewolf, for digging up the relevant link!

WalterMitty

Families will stock up on cheap booze from the north. Teens will get access to these stashes in their own homes from through friends/older people, or worse some will turn to other substances. Better off breathalysing trouble making teens and charging their parents a thousand euro if they are drunk, apply that to adults too mind.

Paparazzo

The holy grail of politics is to be able to raise money and spin it to the public that you're doing it to actually protect the ordinary joe soap.
Examples:
Cigarette increases - government are only doing it to help you quit
"Safety" cameras - Only doing it to reduce accidents
Petrol prices - Only raising it to help you reduce carbon emissions
Plastic bag tax - Only doing it to help you use less
Carbon tax - only doing it for the enviroment

This in the latest. They're only raising the price to help the teenagers.

Logical Fallacy

bluewolf wrote: »

further proof it's nothing to do with teen drinking:

Fine Gael manifesto:

http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/Fine%20Gael%20Manifesto%20low-res.pdf

LoL, it really is very funny. Political parties will talk about the importance of pubs and how awesome they are, booze companies will sponsor sporting events, a large percentage of Irish socialising will revolve around the bottle...all happily cheered on by the government...and yet there is shock when teenagers want to drink.

"Booze is horrible and wrong until you turn 18, when it magically becomes awesome!".