New aparts for sale for 30 weeks average pay - will property go lower?

zac8

gigino wrote: »

Now, what other country in the world could you buy a new 2-bedroom apartment, built to Irish government standards, for as little as 7 or 8 months ( not years ) average public sector salary ?

Germany

MagicSean

Another thread where you claim the same old **** over and over. Why is it that whenever you start a thread I start to wish there was a blast with piss option instead of a thanks button. How are you still even allowed start threads?

Degsy

the groutch wrote: »

48k a year, that's about 40% higher than the private sector. (iirc)
and people are still defending the CPA?

Come work in the Public Sector and see how long it takes you to earn 48k...

I've never seen so much bullshiit written on one subject.

Benny_Cake

Congratulations OP, you've successfully derailed your own thread!

ScumLord

Degsy wrote: »

They're not known for thier industrious lifestyle in fairness.

Ya, I was shown a big building that was built for them, from a distance it looked derelict but as you passed by it you could see they'd built a shanty town in the back by pulling apart the brand new apartment block. The locals said the gypsies just didn't know how to live in buildings.

It's still hard to see people living like that is this day and age, they'd be going through bins and when you come up close to them they scatter like wild animals. We'd be scared of them here but over there they're bottom of the ladder.

gigino

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

Everyone I know on the continent (mainly in Spain) rents. This would include (in one example) a family (fairly wealthy) who never bought their own place, but rented right until the mother died. Like I said, the impression I get is that it is advantageous to rent on the continent.

But somebody must buy or own the apartments on the continent. For every tenant there is a landlord. If they can buy them for the equivalent of only 30 weeks average public service wages, then they must be making a fortune if they keep them rented for years and decades ? When was property ever so cheap in terms of earning power ?

James.

Kristopherus wrote: »

Those were 2008 figures. Knock 15% off and it will be fairly accurate.

dont forget to add on your increments...

so in reality there was no pay cut at all !

you are probably earning more today than you were 2 or 3 years ago

gigino

James. wrote: »

dont forget to add on your increments...

so in reality there was no pay cut at all !

you are probably earning more today than you were 2 or 3 years ago

Life is still tough when it takes 30 weeks gross average salary to buy a relatively new 2-bedroom apartment in the middle of Ireland . Soon it will be a couple of months work will buy a dwelling the way things are going. Something out of balance I think.

MagicSean

James. wrote: »

dont forget to add on your increments...

so in reality there was no pay cut at all !

you are probably earning more today than you were 2 or 3 years ago

I'm not due another increment for four years. Can I still claim a paycut?

gigino

MagicSean wrote: »

I'm not due another increment for four years.

given the state of the economy, why are there incremental pay increases at all, especially when you consider spending on public sector wages doubled in 10 years. Why do you want yet more pay increases, when your average gross pay will now buy an apartment in 30 weeks ? That not a high enough standard of living for you ?

MagicSean

gigino wrote: »

given the state of the economy, why are there incremental pay increases at all, especially when you consider spending on public sector wages doubled in 10 years. Why do you want yet more pay increases, when your average gross pay will now buy an apartment in 30 weeks ? That not a high enough standard of living for you ?

Sorry, I assumed you had some kind of ability when it came to calculating wages. As someone on the lower end of the ladder I do not earn the average. I earn less than that. I also have to pay pension contributions, pension levy, paye, prsi and usc and out of that. All in all they take the guts of 35%+ out of my wage. When you get a job you'll understand the difference betwenn average gross pay and your own net pay.

gigino

MagicSean wrote: »

When you get a job you'll understand the difference betwenn average gross pay and your own net pay.

I understand full well the difference between gross pay and net pay, and nowhere did I state 30 weeks average net pay would buy that apartment.

MagicSean

gigino wrote: »

I understand full well the difference between gross pay and net pay,

Fooled me

gigino wrote: »

and nowhere did I state 30 weeks average net pay would buy that apartment.

No you are good at avoiding statements like that. You just imply.

James.

MagicSean wrote: »

I'm not due another increment for four years. Can I still claim a paycut?

anyone who is not getting an increment is already at the top of their payscale.

and to get the huge pension that you will receive you should be contributing about 30 % of your salary so dont be moaning about a small pension levy

MagicSean

James. wrote: »

anyone who is not getting an increment is already at the top of their payscale.

and to get the huge pension that you will receive you should be contributing about 30 % of your salary so dont be moaning about a small pension levy

I'm not near the top of my payscale. There are 4 or 5 more years before i get another increment though. Clearly you are not as all knowing as you think.

And while I do only contribute 15% of my wage toward my pension that does not help me purchase a house as Gigino seems to think I can.

Degsy

James. wrote: »

anyone who is not getting an increment is already at the top of their payscale.

And the top in some grades can be 33k per anum.


Some dole scroungers make more than that.

ronan45

Jesus they are great Value !!!!!!!!!!!


Kicks both his heels together and runs to Local Bank.............:D

Galtee

gigino wrote: »

Will property fall further, thats the question on many peoples minds. How affordible is property - in terms of peoples earnings. If you want to compare wages to property prices in Ireland then lets choose average public sector salary which is € 48,000 per year according to the CSO. www.cso.ie We could choose average private sector salary but statistics on that may be less reliable. Now lets look at what you can buy new 2 bedroom apartments for in ordinary, middle Ireland. You can get them for not just less than 48k, not just less than 38k but less than 30k even.
Here is a 2 bedroom apartment in " middle Ireland" for 29k ( if you want it, offer 25 or 26k - that may buy it ! )
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=631593

Elsewhere in the country, from Donegal to Louth to Waterford city, property can also be got for less than a years salary:
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=614632
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=613282
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=630903
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=629156
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=629383
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=627468


Now, what other country in the world could you buy a new 2-bedroom apartment, built to Irish government standards, for as little as 7 or 8 months ( not years ) average public sector salary ? This suggests to me that property prices are already very low. Property is already buttons in many areas of this country. It cannot fall much more in many areas surely ? If it does, will you see an apartment for sale for only 2 or 3 months wages ?
Will this be the year property bounces back to 2 or 3 years salary ? Historically you would think property should cost at least that anyway ?

If I buy four of them can I build a hotel?

neil_hosey

Degsy wrote: »

And the top in some grades can be 33k per anum.


Some dole scroungers make more than that.

not everyone should get pay increase just for doing the job. Low skilled jobs whether they be private or public sector pay lower! thats obvious! just because someone works in the public sector doesnt mean that they deserve to get bumped every year if they just an admin clerk!

CreepingDeath

Degsy wrote: »

And the top in some grades can be 33k per anum.

Post a link of this "claim" to back up this.
Looks like most will walk into a public sector job on €30k+ in year one.

Dept of Health pay scales 2011

Dept of Education teacher pay scales

Degsy

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Post a link of this "claim" to back up this.
Looks like most will walk into a public sector job on €30k+ in year one.

Dept of Health pay scales 2011

Dept of Education teacher pay scales

Sure..

Degsy

neil_hosey wrote: »

not everyone should get pay increase just for doing the job. Low skilled jobs whether they be private or public sector pay lower! thats obvious! just because someone works in the public sector doesnt mean that they deserve to get bumped every year if they just an admin clerk!

So you're saying they should work forever on the same pay,yeah?

Good luck with getting anybody to apply for any job anywhere where you're on the same money for 40 years.

gigino

Galtee wrote: »

If I buy four of them can I build a hotel?

Wait until you retire after 30 or 40 years of service , and you can use your 18 month tax free " gratuity" from the government to buy a handful of apartments. You can call them your hotel or whatever you want. Should supplement your government pension nicely, but do not forget to disclose the income from it to the revenue. . Its a great little country.

gigino

Degsy wrote: »

So you're saying they should work forever on the same pay,yeah?

Good luck with getting anybody to apply for any job anywhere where you're on the same money for 40 years.

Hundreds of thousands of people in the private sector are earning less money now than they did 5 or 10 years ago.

Degsy

gigino wrote: »

Hundreds of thousands of people in the private sector are earning less money now than they did 5 or 10 years ago.

Every single person in the Public Sector is making less money than they did two years ago.

Due of course to stupidity and greed in the private sector.

DoesNotCompute

gigino wrote: »

Will property fall further, thats the question on many peoples minds. How affordible is property - in terms of peoples earnings. If you want to compare wages to property prices in Ireland then lets choose average public sector salary which is € 48,000 per year according to the CSO. www.cso.ie We could choose average private sector salary but statistics on that may be less reliable. Now lets look at what you can buy new 2 bedroom apartments for in ordinary, middle Ireland. You can get them for not just less than 48k, not just less than 38k but less than 30k even.
Here is a 2 bedroom apartment in " middle Ireland" for 29k ( if you want it, offer 25 or 26k - that may buy it ! )
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=631593

Elsewhere in the country, from Donegal to Louth to Waterford city, property can also be got for less than a years salary:
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=614632
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=613282
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=630903
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=629156
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=629383
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=627468


Now, what other country in the world could you buy a new 2-bedroom apartment, built to Irish government standards, for as little as 7 or 8 months ( not years ) average public sector salary ? This suggests to me that property prices are already very low. Property is already buttons in many areas of this country. It cannot fall much more in many areas surely ? If it does, will you see an apartment for sale for only 2 or 3 months wages ?
Will this be the year property bounces back to 2 or 3 years salary ? Historically you would think property should cost at least that anyway ?

Two points:

1. Apartments may have come down sharply in price, but houses still have a looonnnnggggg way to go. Nobody wants a 2 bed box apartment in the back *rse of Longford, miles away from anything.

2. As a civil servant, I can tell you now that your assumption that the average civil servant is on €48k per annum is a load of auld horseshíte. Even if the average was €48k, the take-home would probably be around €38k after tax, usc, pension levy, prsi, etc

tayto lover

gigino wrote: »

It was over 49,000, its between 47 and 48k now, according to the latest government statistics ( they should know ).
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2011/earnlabcosts_q32011.pdf

According to the cso, average hours worked in the public service is 31.8 hours per week, and average weekly pay is € 906.81 Thats for quarter 3, 2011, the latest statistics available.


I've never been to Texas. Its a big place I believe. Would those properties @ 90k + 250 in Texas be 50 miles from civiliisation or in sizeable towns ? Any what are wages like in Texas ? Do people there get an average of the equivalent of 30 euro an hour ( plus pension when they retire of half finishing wage and 18 months tax free lump sum )? There are new 4 bedroom houses being sold in some parts of Ireland for 60k, I wonder how the Texas ones @ 90k compare to them ?

Did you not reverse those numbers on another thread and say they were 84k a week? Your same old tune is played out now.

tayto lover

Degsy wrote: »

Here's a gaff in Dublin for 40k!!

You have to understand auctioneer's language. Quaint = shyte.

Benny_Cake

The Catholic Church AND the public service are keeping you busy today gigino - keep fighting the good fight buddy :rolleyes:

Degsy

Benny_Cake wrote: »

The Catholic Church AND the public service are keeping you busy today gigino - keep fighting the good fight buddy :rolleyes:

The voices in his head are probably playing thier part too.

Robdude

I don't know about Ireland, but I do know the price of housing in Dublin is unbelievably rediculous (to me). I seriously can't fathom how anyone can make a go at owning a house - unless there are some government programs I'm unaware of.

Finding a job outside of Dublin is next to impossible.
Jobs inside Dublin don't pay nearly enough to afford a house in Dublin.

I've lived in other cities where people complained about housing prices - like Chicago back in the US - but is an order of magnitude worse here.

I'm not complaining so much as I'm honestly confused. I just don't see how it's possible for people to do it. According to all the numbers I've seen, I make reasonably good money by Irish standards and I have no children. I also live a very cheap lifestyle. And I couldn't even come close to affording a proper house.

If prices dropped 50% - I'd still think, 'Yikes - that's kind of expensive!'

(for comparision - I owned a 1600 sq. ft. detached/single family house with three bedrooms, 2.5 baths, a two car garage, new furnace/central air, large garden and I paid 115k euro for it - and I could find a job down the road).

Paulzx

gigino wrote: »

Wait until you retire after 30 or 40 years of service , and you can use your 18 month tax free " gratuity" from the government to buy a handful of apartments. You can call them your hotel or whatever you want. Should supplement your government pension nicely, but do not forget to disclose the income from it to the revenue. . Its a great little country.

Obviously you're still banned from Irish Economy.

Why weren't you honest in your thread title?

What you really wanted to put as a thread title "Public Servants are a drain on society and can buy 10 apartments with the cash they've bled out of everyone else"

You got the thread moving along these lines pretty quickly to suit your usual agenda.

Should you not be studying hard for your mock exams at the moment instead of polluting the internet with your normal drivel?

Degsy

There was another bloke on here who started threads on the same subject pretty much every day... Chucky the tree i think his name was..it turns out he was miffed because he was rejected for a Public sector job her applied for.

Hell hath no fury like a job candidate who wasnt as good as he thinks he was!

Robdude

Degsy wrote: »

There was another bloke on here who started threads on the same subject pretty much every day... Chucky the tree i think his name was..it turns out he was miffed because he was rejected for a Public sector job her applied for.

Hell hath no fury like a job candidate who wasnt as good as he thinks he was!

Off-topic a bit; but do you know if green card holders can get public sector jobs? If half of what people are saying is true, I should be working in the public sector.

Degsy

Robdude wrote: »

Off-topic a bit; but do you know if green card holders can get public sector jobs? If half of what people are saying is true, I should be working in the public sector.

There's a moratorium on public sector recruitment at the moment..No new jobs are being created and people who leave or retire arent being replaced.

It means those left beind are doing other people's work as well as thier own..of course you cant tell the unemployed,college-bum,would-be IT workers that,they know everything and have all the answers.

Hank_Jones

I would think there are reasons why some of them are priced so low.

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=629156

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76059394

http://www.argus.ie/news/broke-in-through-window-2923514.html

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Scum-Hole-that-is-Douglas-Court/133886973355778?v=info#info_edit_sections

MagicSean

gigino wrote: »

Wait until you retire after 30 or 40 years of service , and you can use your 18 month tax free " gratuity" from the government to buy a handful of apartments. You can call them your hotel or whatever you want. Should supplement your government pension nicely, but do not forget to disclose the income from it to the revenue. . Its a great little country.

You believe that in 30 years house prices will be the same?

Degsy

Not all shiit places are cheap...


http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=591847

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054890825

http://www.neighbours.ie/forums/forumdisplay.php/2915-Crosbies-Yard

bryaner

Deleted User wrote: »

48k a year average? What in the name of sweet fuk.

48k sure you were a muppet if you were on that in the celtic tiger days..

impr0v

gigino wrote: »

Here is a 2 bedroom apartment in " middle Ireland" for 29k ( if you want it, offer 25 or 26k - that may buy it ! )
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=631593

The first sentence of the property description in the daft ad is perhaps the worst example of hyperbole I have ever seen.

The pictures are absolutely terrible too.

Vizzy

gigino wrote: »

Wait until Iyou retire after 30 or 40 years of service , and Iyou can use Myyour 18 month tax free " gratuity" from the government to buy a handful of apartments. IYou can call them myyour hotel or whatever Iyou want. Should supplement myyour government pension nicely, but I won'tdo not forget to disclose the income from it to the revenue. . Its a great little country.

Fixed your post

gigino

MagicSean wrote: »

You believe that in 30 years house prices will be the same?

No. Prices throughout history would point to the likelyhood of prices being the same in 30 years time as being very slim. In the meantime, if you are on the equivalent of the average public sector salary of 48k a year, its up to you what you spent that on. Buy an apartment @ 29k every year if you want. If you think prices will go higher then that may be a financially advantageous thing for you to do. I'm just wondering will prices go lower.

Slasher78

I think our government have a hell of a lot to awnser for with the bubble, they turned a blind eye to the market as they were getting so much tax and lets be honest back handers to keep the prices high.

In Holland & most parts of Germany the cities are zoned and prices are SET for the type of dwelling .... so for example 1 bed/ 2 bed or 3 bed or whatever all have a set price, the builder cant ask for any more.

Also this set pricing is also used in the letting market.... so a 2 bed is maybe 400 in the cental zone1, and maybe 350 in zone 3...you get the idea... But city center living is still expensive

It makes for a fair and very sustainable market......as you will make a bit of money buying up property...but nothing like what we had over here, which was more like the rich stacking the deck and getting the rest of us to play against them.

gurramok

Robdude wrote: »

I don't know about Ireland, but I do know the price of housing in Dublin is unbelievably rediculous (to me). I seriously can't fathom how anyone can make a go at owning a house - unless there are some government programs I'm unaware of.

Did you not get the memo from Bertie for the last 10yrs? Singletons are not supposed to buy a house!!

Most purchases were based on a couples salary hence it makes that affordability thing better. Thing is they forgot to say what happens when one half of the couple has that kid or gets an illness or loses their job, hey its trouble!

Most singletons I know who bought in the bubble years did so with a phantom partner, that is their brother, sister, daddy or a mother. They lied to the banks to get that mortgage.

Robdude

gurramok wrote: »

Did you not get the memo from Bertie for the last 10yrs? Singletons are not supposed to buy a house!!

Most purchases were based on a couples salary hence it makes that affordability thing better. Thing is they forgot to say what happens when one half of the couple has that kid or gets an illness or loses their job, hey its trouble!

Most singletons I know who bought in the bubble years did so with a phantom partner, that is their brother, sister, daddy or a mother. They lied to the banks to get that mortgage.

Even if my wife made as much I do; (she's a student currently, so I don't count on her income at all) it would take pretty much all of our income to afford a place.

If either of us got sick or lost our jobs, even for a short period of time, we'd be unable to pay the mortgage.

neil_hosey

Degsy wrote: »

So you're saying they should work forever on the same pay,yeah?

Good luck with getting anybody to apply for any job anywhere where you're on the same money for 40 years.

Wait a minute... lol.. this is the PROBLEM with the Public sector. Just because someone works 40 years emptying ****ing bins for the dept of finance, doesnt mean he should be getting salary bumps every year. Your salary should be based on the difficulty of your job, but you'll find admins in universities earning 50K a year to answer phone calls and send faxes.. this is why the PS is so overinflated.

By your logic, someone answering a telephone in a public sector call centre should get regular bumps up and up and up, until they are earning what?? 100 grand a year??!?!?! you are off your rocker, get back to the celtic tiger!

tayto lover

Slasher78 wrote: »

I think our government have a hell of a lot to awnser for with the bubble, they turned a blind eye to the market as they were getting so much tax and lets be honest back handers to keep the prices high.

In Holland & most parts of Germany the cities are zoned and prices are SET for the type of dwelling .... so for example 1 bed/ 2 bed or 3 bed or whatever all have a set price, the builder cant ask for any more.

Also this set pricing is also used in the letting market.... so a 2 bed is maybe 400 in the cental zone1, and maybe 350 in zone 3...you get the idea... But city center living is still expensive

It makes for a fair and very sustainable market......as you will make a bit of money buying up property...but nothing like what we had over here, which was more like the rich stacking the deck and getting the rest of us to play against them.

Look what's happening here again. It's the same rich people with their hidden money buying up the cheap N.A.M.A. properties to get the ball rolling again. Still prepared to invest in property and cash in again as prices rise in a few years. They haven't gone away you know.

gigino

tayto lover wrote: »

It's the same rich people with their hidden money buying up the cheap N.A.M.A. properties to get the ball rolling again. Still prepared to invest in property and cash in again as prices rise in a few years. They haven't gone away you know.

If you ask any auctioneer they will tell you not much propertry is being sold, but a lot of what propery is changing hands is being bought by those people like university lecturers, Hospital consultants, higher paid HSE workers, higher public servants, retiring Professionals in the public service who want to invest their 18 month's salary worth of tax-free "gratuity" etc. Over 35,000 people in the public service earn over 85,000 per year. If you retired with a lump sum of 130,000 or more tax free, as well as a pension of 50% of your finishing salary, why would'nt you invest a new 2-bedroom apartment or two when they can be got as cheap as 29k ?
As you correctly say " They haven't gone away you know".

tayto lover

gigino wrote: »

If you ask any auctioneer they will tell you not much propertry is being sold, but a lot of what propery is changing hands is being bought by those people like university lecturers, Hospital consultants, higher paid HSE workers, higher public servants, retiring Professionals in the public service who want to invest their 18 month's salary worth of tax-free "gratuity" etc. Over 35,000 people in the public service earn over 85,000 per year. If you retired with a lump sum of 130,000 or more tax free, as well as a pension of 50% of your finishing salary, why would'nt you invest a new 2-bedroom apartment or two when they can be got as cheap as 29k ?
As you correctly say " They haven't gone away you know".

50% pension ?? Link please.

Yahew

gigino wrote: »

Will property fall further, thats the question on many peoples minds. How affordible is property - in terms of peoples earnings. If you want to compare wages to property prices in Ireland then lets choose average public sector salary which is € 48,000 per year according to the CSO. www.cso.ie We could choose average private sector salary but statistics on that may be less reliable. Now lets look at what you can buy new 2 bedroom apartments for in ordinary, middle Ireland. You can get them for not just less than 48k, not just less than 38k but less than 30k even.
Here is a 2 bedroom apartment in " middle Ireland" for 29k ( if you want it, offer 25 or 26k - that may buy it ! )
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=631593

Elsewhere in the country, from Donegal to Louth to Waterford city, property can also be got for less than a years salary:
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=614632
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=613282
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=630903
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=629156
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=629383
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=627468


Now, what other country in the world could you buy a new 2-bedroom apartment, built to Irish government standards, for as little as 7 or 8 months ( not years ) average public sector salary ? This suggests to me that property prices are already very low. Property is already buttons in many areas of this country. It cannot fall much more in many areas surely ? If it does, will you see an apartment for sale for only 2 or 3 months wages ?
Will this be the year property bounces back to 2 or 3 years salary ? Historically you would think property should cost at least that anyway ?

The average public sector pay is way higher than the average pay.