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You can't quit UK without my approval, David Cameron warns Scots

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    #182
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    dublinscot wrote: »
    No

    Erm, yes


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    #183
    celtictiger32
    Registered Users Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭celtictiger32


    junder wrote: »
    Erm, yes

    why, because loyalists cant accept democracy?


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    #184
    dublinscot
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭dublinscot


    junder wrote: »
    Erm, yes
    Huh? :confused:


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    #185
    promethius42
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 167 ✭✭promethius42


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    It would be an interesting outcome though if England's referendum passed, but the Scottish/Welsh/NI referendums failed!

    That would be irony at its best.


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    #186
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    It would be an interesting outcome though if England's referendum passed, but the Scottish/Welsh/NI referendums failed!
    Wouldn't be much odder than if Wales and Scotland wanted out and England and NI voted to remain, there are a few possible combinations, but no country should be forced to join with another against the wishes of its people, and the others would just have to deal with that.


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    #187
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Who gets to vote in the referendum? Is it all Scots, all Scots living in Scotland, or all residents of Scotland?


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    #188
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Wouldn't be much odder than if Wales and Scotland wanted out and England and NI voted to remain, there are a few possible combinations, but no country should be forced to join with another against the wishes of its people, and the others would just have to deal with that.

    It would have the same effect as a host leaving a conference call.


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    #189
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Can anyone think of a worthy candidate (in relation to post#116).


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    #190
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    promethius42 wrote: »
    That would be irony at its best.
    I think this shows the inequality of the UK, if the people of Scotland want out but England want them to remain most people would say "fair enough", but if it's the other way around people use terms like "irony" or say "now that would be interesting".


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    #191
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    It would have the same effect as a host leaving a conference call.
    The very reason many in Scotland, Wales and NI want out, they are fed up of just being England's guests.


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    #192
    dublinscot
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭dublinscot


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Who gets to vote in the referendum? Is it all Scots, all Scots living in Scotland, or all residents of Scotland?
    As far as i know everyone on the electoral roll in Scotland will get to vote.


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    #193
    djrichard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭djrichard


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Who gets to vote in the referendum? Is it all Scots, all Scots living in Scotland, or all residents of Scotland?

    Id imagine it will be everyone on the electoral register in Scotland.

    I will be going back home to vote YES! Im still registered there.

    "Fight and you may die. Run and you will live at least a while. And dying in your bed many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance, to come back here as young men and tell our enemies that they may take our lives but they will never take our freedom!"

    Ahhh stirs the emotions.

    Truth be told, I dont think Scotland will choose its freedom. Along with immigration and a lot of other things, we are losing our identity. There are so many questions about what would happen if we were to be independant, currency; defence; nationality; EU, laws etc etc. There will have to be some amount of time to discuss these options for the voters to have any chance of an educated decision.


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    #194
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    djrichard wrote: »
    "Fight and you may die. Run and you will live at least a while. And dying in your bed many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance, to come back here as young men and tell our enemies that they may take our lives but they will never take our freedom!"

    Ahhh stirs the emotions.

    I hear that every time I'm out with my Scottish drinking buddy.

    I like to remind him that it ended up with the English dishing out a good hiding!


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    #195
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    Salmond is playing a very clever game. Even if he doesn't get full independence for Scotland at once, he has a much better chance of securing the "devolution max" or "independence lite" (whichever you want to call it) that is the third option.

    That will leave Scotland very close to full independence and well placed to take its destiny into its own hands when, as can not be ruled out, the UK disintegrates under the weight of its own contradictions. :) Any referendum that is pushed through and excludes that option will be seen - as it must be - as just a cynical ploy to deny the Scots a real choice - and it will backfire badly.:mad:

    Cameron should learn from Machiavelli, who taught us that "Recognition of realities is the beginning of all wisdom.":D

    And the first reality that springs to mind, and perhaps should also spring to his, is that there are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs.:rolleyes::rolleyes:


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    #196
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    dlofnep wrote: »
    He may be the PM of the UK, but he has absolutely no justification to dictate the internal matters of the Scottish state.
    Are you saying David Cameron has no authority in Scotland?


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    #197
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    dublinscot wrote: »
    There are around 20 billion barrels left according to the latest UK Oil & Gas report.
    About 7 billion according to the latest figures I’ve seen (and that’s being very optimistic):
    http://og.decc.gov.uk/assets/og/data-maps/docs/3183-uk-oil-reserves-and-eur-2011.pdf
    dublinscot wrote: »
    No, you're forgetting that RBS is effectively a British bank.
    So RBS is British but North Sea Oil is Scottish? That’s convenient.
    dublinscot wrote: »
    The Scottish people are sovereign...
    The Claim of Right has no legal force?


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    #198
    dublinscot
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭dublinscot


    djpbarry wrote: »
    About 7 billion according to the latest figures I’ve seen (and that’s being very optimistic):
    http://og.decc.gov.uk/assets/og/data-maps/docs/3183-uk-oil-reserves-and-eur-2011.pdf
    Hmm...why is the UK Oil & Gas estimate of 14 to 24 so different?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-15415218
    So RBS is British but North Sea Oil is Scottish? That’s convenient.
    Like it or not, that's the case, yes.

    Re RBS, the bailout would have been dealt with by both governments. What other solution could there be?
    The Claim of Right has no legal force?
    Doesn't really matter. I'm just making the point that the Scots have the right to decide for themselves.


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    #199
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,202 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    I can't believe some people are trying to equate the failure of RBS to a potential failure of an independent Scotland. The facts are RBS is a UK bank that is headquatered in Scotland and was regulated under UK parliamentary laws. Remember Ulster Bank & Natwest?


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    #200
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Scots would do well to consider the fate of Slovakia after the 1993 breakup;

    What currency to use will be interesting to see, if they peg at par to sterling or trade Scottish pounds. Joining the euro at a pegged rate would also be an (unlikely) option...


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    #201
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,202 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Are you saying David Cameron has no authority in Scotland?

    He has authority. He does not have credibility


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    #202
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-16478121

    Scotland plans to hold an independence referendum in the autumn of 2014, First Minister Alex Salmond has said.

    He said this date would allow the Scottish people to make a "considered" decision on Scotland's future within the United Kingdom.

    The news came as the UK government said a referendum would be unconstitutional without its authority.


    So thats the date set.


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    #203
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    He has authority. He does not have credibility
    Two completely different things. Tony Blair had authority for a lot of his reign as Prime Minister but quickly lost any credibility he had built for himself.


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    #204
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,202 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Cameron never did have any credibility to lose


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    #205
    Mance Rayder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Mance Rayder


    Cameron is the best thing to happen to the British Isles in a long time, I know it's cool to bash politicians but at least he stands up for his country, more then can be said for any Irish mp.


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    #206
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    I can't believe some people are trying to equate the failure of RBS to a potential failure of an independent Scotland. The facts are RBS is a UK bank that is headquatered in Scotland and was regulated under UK parliamentary laws. Remember Ulster Bank & Natwest?

    So the Royal Bank of Scotland and Bank of Scotland are both UK banks, but North Sea Oil is Scottish.

    Sounds like the wanting a divorce but coming home for dinner scenario I mentioned earlier.


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    #207
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,202 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    So the Royal Bank of Scotland and Bank of Scotland are both UK banks, but North Sea Oil is Scottish.

    Sounds like the wanting a divorce but coming home for dinner scenario I mentioned earlier.


    Of course oil in the North Sea is UK oil, a proportion of that will be Scotlands post independence.

    A proportion of UK National Debt will be Scotlands post independence

    Do you disagree?


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    #208
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    21 months to organise a referendum??? Seriously?

    Doesn't bode well for independent Government does it? Perhaps they will follow the Belgian model and give up making decisions....


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    #209
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,202 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    It is easier to dismiss than to learn


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    #210
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    dublinscot wrote: »
    Ach don't worry about that. We'll be too busy partying with our similarly oil-rich Scandinavian friends to have time to eat dinner. Good luck with looking after the kids (Wales and NI) :)

    Ha ha very good. And one of the is still on the breast = NI

    junder wrote: »
    Erm, yes

    No chance at all. Not even remotely possible.


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    #211
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Of course oil in the North Sea is UK oil, a proportion of that will be Scotlands post independence.

    A proportion of UK National Debt will be Scotlands post independence

    Do you disagree?

    That may come as a bit of a shock to Mr Salmond.


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