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You can't quit UK without my approval, David Cameron warns Scots

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    #212
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    woodoo wrote: »
    Ha ha very good. And one of the is still on the breast = NI




    No chance at all. Not even remotely possible.


    Why not ?


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    #213
    Richard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    View wrote: »
    And of course the "United Kingdom of the remaining bits of Great Britain & Northern Ireland" (i.e. E, W & NI) would be a new member state too, wouldn't it?

    I do presume that Westminster wouldn't try to adopt the line used by the Serbs in the 1990's when they kept insisting that there really was a Yugoslavia in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

    I think you'd presume wrong. When the Irish Free State left the UK, the UK carried on.

    Whilst, in the event of an independent Scotland, there would be a division on UK assets, the reality is that the UK would continue in a smaller form.

    Remember when Greenland obtained Home Rule from Denmark. Greenland was out of the EEC and didn' rejoin. Denmark's membership was unaffected.

    In the event of a United Ireland, neither the UK nor Ireland would cease to be EU members.

    In the event of Scotland leaving the UK, it would be out of the EU. Unless they changed the rules. Which may very well happen.


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    #214
    Richard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    That may come as a bit of a shock to Mr Salmond.

    I think he knows that. But he's keeping quiet.

    Something similar happened with Irish independence.


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    #215
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Are you saying David Cameron has no authority in Scotland?

    He has authority over some issues, but this isn't one of them. An internal discussion on independence is for the Scottish people alone.


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    #216
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    realies wrote: »
    Why not ?

    I have never heard a Scot even mention the possibility of it.

    Do you think it could happen?


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    #217
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    dlofnep wrote: »
    He has authority over some issues, but this isn't one of them. An internal discussion on independence is for the Scottish people alone.

    And interested Irish nationalists, obviously.


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    #218
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    voodoo wrote: »
    I have never heard a Scot even mention the possibility of it.

    Do you think it could happen?





    Yes, especially & more than likely from the scottish unionist side.


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    #219
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    And interested Irish nationalists, obviously.

    Hold up a second, and drop the charade. Anyone can comment on the matter. That is a wholly different issue than attempting to dictate the matter from Westminster. When it comes down to deciding on the future of Scotland, it will be solely down to the Scottish people. Do I have to explain the difference between commentary on Scottish independence, and attempting to control internal affairs of Scotland from Westminster again, or will you attempt to grasp it this time around? Genuinely curious.


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    #220
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    And interested Irish nationalists, obviously.



    Why wouldn't it interest Irish nationalists or any Irish person,If scottish independence came about it would have a huge effect throughout the rest of the UK and Ireland.


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    #221
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    realies wrote: »
    Why wouldn't it interest Irish nationalists or any Irish person,If scottish independence came about it would have a huge effect throughout the rest of the UK and Ireland.

    In what respect? Would all the Celtic countries form a new United Kingdom of their own? :D


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    #222
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,202 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    And interested Irish nationalists, obviously.

    Are you recommending the banning of non Irish current political events from the Politics forum?


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    #223
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    What about the monarchy situation with Scotland and is Alex Samond in favour of the monarchy?


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    #224
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,202 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    What about the monarchy situation with Scotland and is Alex Samond in favour of the monarchy?


    He is in favour although I would vote for dumping the monarchy


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    #225
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    As I understand it, Alex Salmond favours retaining the monarchy's involvement with Scotland - mighty big of him.


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    #226
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Are you recommending the banning of non Irish current political events from the Politics forum?

    Basically, he is subtly attempting imply that Irish people who support the SNP should not be commenting on the topic of Scottish independence, when it's clear that he has posted as much as anyone else on the topic.

    The only difference of course is that Irish nationalists are very upfront about who they are, and what their stance is. Fratton Fred, and a handful of other posters in this thread clearly demonstrate a pro-union stance - whilst belittling the legitimate aspiration of Scottish independence, and then attempt to masquerade as impartial commentators. It's quite transparent.

    Everyone across the world will take interest in this referendum - from both sides of the spectrum. Fratton Fred would prefer that Irish people supportive of Scottish independence didn't pontificate about Scottish affairs.


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    #227
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    As I understand it, Alex Salmond favours retaining the monarchy's involvement with Scotland - mighty big of him.
    Does he? Hmmm. Might convince some Unionists.


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    #228
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,202 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Basically, he is subtly attempting imply that Irish people who support the SNP should not be commenting on the topic of Scottish independence, when it's clear that he has posted as much as anyone else on the topic.

    I see what you mean

    capturegxo.jpg


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    #229
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Basically, he is subtly attempting imply that Irish people who support the SNP should not be commenting on the topic of Scottish independence, when it's clear that he has posted as much as anyone else on the topic.

    The only difference of course is that Irish nationalists are very upfront about who they are, and what their stance is. Fratton Fred, and a handful of other posters in this thread clearly demonstrate a pro-union stance - whilst belittling the legitimate aspiration of Scottish independence, and then attempt to masquerade as impartial commentators. It's quite transparent.

    Everyone across the world will take interest in this referendum - from both sides of the spectrum. Fratton Fred would prefer that Irish people supportive of Scottish independence didn't pontificate about Scottish affairs.

    Perhaps he's just fed up at the way Irish nationalist posters here feel obliged to climb onboard any anti-British/English bandwagon whether it's Scottish Independence, the Monarchy or whatever. If Cornwall wanted to go independent in the morning the same weary old tripe would be trotted out by the usual suspects. * No rolling eyes!


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    #230
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,202 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    If Cornwall wanted to go independent in the morning the same weary old tripe would be trotted out by the usual suspects. * No rolling eyes!

    That is no way to talk about the pro union people!


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    #231
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Perhaps he's just fed up at the way Irish nationalist posters here feel obliged to climb onboard any anti-British/English bandwagon whether it's Scottish Independence, the Monarchy or whatever. If Cornwall wanted to go independent in the morning the same weary old tripe would be trotted out by the usual suspects. * No rolling eyes!

    And now, you're going to have to demonstrate how supporting Scottish independence is 'anti-English'. I mean, you can make that accusation time and time again - but it doesn't become anymore true the more you say it. The reality is - you simply don't like the fact that those who support Scottish independence have clear-cut, reasoned arguments in favour of it - So you've resorted to attacking their character.

    It's a piss-poor form of debate. But by all means, if that's all you have to contribute - go for it.


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    #232
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    LordSutch wrote: »
    The ramifications of a UK breakup are far too serious & far reaching as to be dictated by the likes of Alex Salmond ......


    Do be as good as to explain what you mean by "the likes of Alex Salmond".


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    #233
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Of course oil in the North Sea is UK oil, a proportion of that will be Scotlands post independence.

    A proportion of UK National Debt will be Scotlands post independence
    That’s fine, but it has been suggested on more than one occasion on this thread that North Sea reserves are Scotland’s alone.


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    #234
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    dlofnep wrote: »
    An internal discussion on independence is for the Scottish people alone.
    Their prime minister is allowed no say?
    dlofnep wrote: »
    When it comes down to deciding on the future of Scotland, it will be solely down to the Scottish people.
    But we’re not just talking about the future of Scotland – we’re talking about the future of the UK.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    Basically, he is subtly attempting imply that Irish people who support the SNP should not be commenting on the topic of Scottish independence...
    No, I believe he was implying that you’re being a hypocrite.


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    #235
    Richard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    dublinscot wrote: »



    Not true. Look at the Czech Republic. Joined the EU without having to adopt the Euro.

    They are committed to join when they meet the convergence criteria. As are all other recent EU entrants.


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    #236
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    From the Guardian tonight: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jan/10/scottish-independence-salmond-poll-date?newsfeed=true


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    #237
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Their prime minister is allowed no say?

    He can say whatever he likes. What he is not allowed is to dictate the terms of the referendum. The SNP has a mandate from the Scottish people, something David Cameron's party failed to receive at either the national elections, or the UK elections in Scotland.
    djpbarry wrote: »
    But we’re not just talking about the future of Scotland – we’re talking about the future of the UK.

    The UK will remain in Scotland's absence. Scotland should get to determine if it wishes to remain in the UK, or leave.


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    #238
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    dlofnep wrote: »
    He can say whatever he likes. What he is not allowed is to dictate the terms of the referendum. The SNP has a mandate from the Scottish people, something David Cameron's party failed to receive at either the national elections, or the UK elections in Scotland.
    No point in going on about mandates around here. I’m always bleating on about them but no one pays any attention. :)
    dlofnep wrote: »
    Scotland should get to determine if it wishes to remain in the UK, or leave.
    And they will. Cameron is not disputing that. But to suggest that the prime minister of any state has no business involving himself in something that will lead to a change in the territory of that state is simply ridiculous. I cannot think of anything, short of an invasion by another hostile state, that would be more the business of a PM.

    And you can be quite sure that there will be, and needs to be, extensive negotiation between Edinburgh and London in working out the practicalities of Scotland leaving the UK. And I see no good reason why the timing of a referendum would be outside the scope of London’s interest.

    Do you imagine, if and when an Irish referendum comes up, London (and Dublin) will have no input on the timing of it?


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    #239
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 921 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    I'm glad that Salmond has held his ground, another tactical victory against Cameron's blowharding. I would like Scotland to follow our path and adopt strict neutrality. No defense pacts. Which may mean re-locating trident, UK armor etc. One things for sure, the Trident deterrent won't be re-located to here :D


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    #240
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    I'm glad that Salmond has held his ground, another tactical victory against Cameron's blowharding. I would like Scotland to follow our path and adopt strict neutrality. No defense pacts. Which may mean re-locating trident, UK armor etc. One things for sure, the Trident deterrent won't be re-located to here :D

    Except we don't adopt "strict neutrality"...


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    #241
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Perhaps he's just fed up at the way Irish nationalist posters here feel obliged to climb onboard any anti-British/English bandwagon whether it's Scottish Independence, the Monarchy or whatever. If Cornwall wanted to go independent in the morning the same weary old tripe would be trotted out by the usual suspects. * No rolling eyes!

    I would not like to see Cornwall break from England. I would like to see England go it alone.


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