Galway City Council Offices this eve

biko

So no chairs were thrown? And "prevented from throwing it" could mean "held chair" as we cannot know the intention of the person. This means to me the papers were wrong/ jumped to conclusions?
Also no arrests were done.

Hello world

So someone lifted a chair above shoulder hight im not sure about the rest of you but I would consider that to be violent or threating given the circumstances.

antoobrien

biko wrote: »

So no chairs were thrown? And "prevented from throwing it" could mean "held chair" as we cannot know the intention of the person. This means to me the papers were wrong/ jumped to conclusions?
Also no arrests were done.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/23632-gardaí-keep-angry-crowd-storming-galway-city-council-meeting

The protest started noisily but was nonviolent at first until shortly after the City Council meeting got underway – then scores of angry demonstrators attempted to barge and force their way into the chamber. Galway Gardaí successfully kept the crowd at bay. The protestors had pried open the main large doors of the chamber, which double as walls, and attempted to pour forward into the room but Gardaí repelled the surge and also ejected members of the public from the chamber.

At one stage a protestor picked up a chair but he was prevented from throwing it.

Biko why the hell was the individual lifting a chair in the first place?

At the least it was public disorder (i.e. not leaving when asked), at worst it was in preparation for assault.

This property tax was voted in by the Dáil - the United Left Alliance who seemed to be the organisers of this protest (facebook.com/events/) [Edit - just spotted that that event had all of 31 people attending so it might not be the principal organising platform] had their opportunity to vote against this but since they don't have the support of the masses and have only five members in the Dáil it passed.

That is the democratic process - trying to interrupt meetings is not.

If you are so convinced of your ideas stand in the next local elections which will be due in two and a bit years.

Looking through electionsireland.org the ULA or people before profit don't even seem to have fielded a candidate in Galway in the last general election. [edit 2 - they might not have been organised in Galway at the time]

As for the point of there being real anger there - anger isn't going to pay the bills.

Predalien

padraig47 wrote: »

Yes. I find it ironic that a so-called left alliance is opposed to a property tax. The charge is only an interim charge on the way to tax property. The protesters do not speak for me. I object to any intimidation of elected representatives, even if I do not always agree with said representatives.

A charge that does not in anyway take into account ability to pay is not fair, that's fairly simple whether you a lefty, righty or anything in between.

It is likely the property taxes will be fairly high and unfortunately most of the money will be wasted funding incompetent and inefficient local councils who have a serious financial shortfall. We already pay for our bins, we will soon be paying for water, we have amongst the highest road taxes in Europe, we have feck all parks, community swimming pools, general amenities. Local public transport systems are very poor. If funding raised by a property tax was ring-fenced to actually provide services (perhaps even create community jobs) and was carefully assessed to see who should/can pay, then fine. Right now though it's just another crude attempt to plug the gap, with more money heading into a black hole.

Elected representatives spend a lot of time intimidating us with scaremongering rubbish (Derek Nolan sent leaflets around the day after the budget with scary numbers and no solutions). I doubt a protest group made up in a large part by pensioners caused too much intimidation. As elected representatives they should expect to be challenged. No one was hurt and it sounds like local media blew this whole thing out of proportion.

eire.man

Hello world wrote: »

So someone lifted a chair above shoulder hight im not sure about the rest of you but I would consider that to be violent or threating given the circumstances.

will ya stop, were you there???

the guy lifted the chair/s to move them out of ghe way when all hell had broken lose and people had nowhere to turn in the ****ty small room they have the meeting in,

there was nobody at the protest who would be so stupid as to "throw a chair" at an elected official (at this stage anyway!!)

we are not animals, scum, or anything of the sort so please stop trying to make out from the comfort of your laptops that there was something in what you did not see for yourself!!

eire.man

antoobrien wrote: »

biko wrote: »

So no chairs were thrown? And "prevented from throwing it" could mean "held chair" as we cannot know the intention of the person. This means to me the papers were wrong/ jumped to conclusions?
Also no arrests were done.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/23632-gardaí-keep-angry-crowd-storming-galway-city-council-meeting

The protest started noisily but was nonviolent at first until shortly after the City Council meeting got underway – then scores of angry demonstrators attempted to barge and force their way into the chamber. Galway Gardaí successfully kept the crowd at bay. The protestors had pried open the main large doors of the chamber, which double as walls, and attempted to pour forward into the room but Gardaí repelled the surge and also ejected members of the public from the chamber.

At one stage a protestor picked up a chair but he was prevented from throwing it.

Biko why the hell was the individual lifting a chair in the first place?

At the least it was public disorder (i.e. not leaving when asked), at worst it was in preparation for assault.

I guarantee you galwaynew.ie will go further with recaning their bull**** this afternoon!!

they didn't go far enough with their editing as now people are still reading it and making their minds up that someone tried to throw a chair, wtf!!!!

NOBODY TRIED/OR WOULD HAVE TRIED TO THROW A CHAIR AT THE COUNCILLORS!!

Anger won't pay the bills, sure, same as just bending over won't prevent a rape in progress!!

Hello world

eire.man wrote: »

Hello world wrote: »

So someone lifted a chair above shoulder hight im not sure about the rest of you but I would consider that to be violent or threating given the circumstances.

will ya stop, were you there???

the guy lifted the chair/s to move them out of ghe way when all hell had broken lose and people had nowhere to turn in the ****ty small room they have the meeting in,

there was nobody at the protest who would be so stupid as to "throw a chair" at an elected official (at this stage anyway!!)

we are not animals, scum, or anything of the sort so please stop trying to make out from the comfort of your laptops that there was something in what you did not see for yourself!!

No I wasn't there but Mollie Breathna said he was and he also said at least one chair was raised above shoulder height. No one is arguing if the chair was thrown or not except you. And as far as I'm concerned it was a stupid move by the protestor to lift a chair like that regardless if he wanted to throw it or not
And I never tried to make it out as if I was there sorry if you got that idea (also I'm
On a desktop)
You really need to calm yourself down a bit

eire.man

Hello world wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

Hello world wrote: »

So someone lifted a chair above shoulder hight im not sure about the rest of you but I would consider that to be violent or threating given the circumstances.

will ya stop, were you there???

the guy lifted the chair/s to move them out of ghe way when all hell had broken lose and people had nowhere to turn in the ****ty small room they have the meeting in,

there was nobody at the protest who would be so stupid as to "throw a chair" at an elected official (at this stage anyway!!)

we are not animals, scum, or anything of the sort so please stop trying to make out from the comfort of your laptops that there was something in what you did not see for yourself!!

No I wasn't there but Mollie Breathna said he was and he also said at least one chair was raised above shoulder height. No one is arguing if the chair was thrown or not except you. And as far as I'm concerned it was a stupid move by the protestor to lift a chair like that regardless if he wanted to throw it or not
And I never tried to make it out as if I was there sorry if you got that idea (also I'm
On a desktop)
You really need to calm yourself down a bit

calm myself down!! will i fcuk and i'll kindly ask you to not to patronise me again please. So now we've gone from you firmly believing the chair was thrown, to ok it wasnt thrown but it looked like it was going to be but was hindered in someway, to now admitting you weren't there at all and instead you're telling me Mollie said he was so he was!! And to further show your ignorance you insist it was a stupid move by the protestor to move the chair above shoulder height in the first place, let me explain something to ya, if you were getting squashed, pushed and moved around a very small room and had nowhere to just push the chairs out of the way due to being confined then the only place a chair can go to be moved is up!!

i have worked in bars and when the place packss up i carried stock/buckets of ice through the crowds above my head, even furniture too to be honest, never once did i see a member of the public afraid for their safety if they seen me coming arms held high in the air!!

Mollie Breathna

eire.man wrote: »

NOBODY TRIED/OR WOULD HAVE TRIED TO THROW A CHAIR AT THE COUNCILLORS!!

I was there and saw the group burst through the double-doors, pushing chairs out of the way. I saw one of the group raise a chair above his head - much higher than necessary to just move it out of the way. It was intimidating and disorderly.

CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND – BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN

Article 40. 6. 1° The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality:

i. The right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions.

The education of public opinion being, however, a matter of such grave import to the common good, the State shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State.

The publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law.

ii. The right of the citizens to assemble peaceably and without arms.

Provision may be made by law to prevent or control meetings which are determined in accordance with law to be calculated to cause a breach of the peace or to be a danger or nuisance to the general public and to prevent or control meetings in the vicinity of either House of the Oireachtas.

iii. The right of the citizens to form associations and unions.

Laws, however, may be enacted for the regulation and control in the public interest of the exercise of the foregoing right.

Notwithstanding the right to assembly and protest above, this event changed from being a noisy, peaceful protest to being an attempt at intimidation; it was disorderly and a breach of the peace.
No-one has the right to behave the way some of these protesters did and they did their overall cause no good.
And eire.man, stop threatening to shut down legitimate reporting of the event.

inisboffin

I wasn't there first off. But it seems someone lifted a chair over their head according to reports. People are saying the intention of this person was/wasn't to threaten. It's not likely we will find out either way.

Now people are saying the chair was lifted "much higher that you would need to move it out of the way"..

Has anyone ever tried to move a chair in a crowded room, or say a room full of fast moving students? You DO lift a chair over your head so as not to take up the 'people' space at body level and poked by a leg or poke someone yourself. You lift it over your head, either legs up high, or by the legs usually.

So based on what I have read, and the fact that the papers have already 'downgraded', and two eye witness accounts at least on here, I think things were much exaggerated for sensationalism. And that someone lifted a chair. Woop de doo!

Predalien

Mollie Breathna wrote: »

And eire.man, stop threatening to shut down legitimate reporting of the event.

It is not legitimate reporting if it reports alleged incidents as facts, any half decent reporter would have the cop on to report what could be criminal actions as alleged incidents. The Tribune and Advertiser have both put themselves in a position where an action for defamation could be taken against them because of amateur reporting.

thesandeman

It will probably turn out in the end that somebody just wanted to make a point so they raised their hand and said 'through the chair'.

eire.man

thesandeman wrote: »

It will probably turn out in the end that somebody just wanted to make a point so they raised their hand and said 'through the chair'.

oh the puns!!

Hello world

eire.man wrote: »

calm myself down!! will i fcuk and i'll kindly ask you to not to patronise me again please. So now we've gone from you firmly believing the chair was thrown, to ok it wasnt thrown but it looked like it was going to be but was hindered in someway, to now admitting you weren't there at all and instead you're telling me Mollie said he was so he was!! And to further show your ignorance you insist it was a stupid move by the protestor to move the chair above shoulder height in the first place, let me explain something to ya, if you were getting squashed, pushed and moved around a very small room and had nowhere to just push the chairs out of the way due to being confined then the only place a chair can go to be moved is up!!

i have worked in bars and when the place packss up i carried stock/buckets of ice through the crowds above my head, even furniture too to be honest, never once did i see a member of the public afraid for their safety if they seen me coming arms held high in the air!!

I am discussing the news with other members of the forum some who were there and some who were not this thread is not exclusively for people who were at the protest.
And once again I couldn't care less where u har worked so please stop telling me
And I never made it out like I was there

padraig47

Predalien wrote: »

A charge that does not in anyway take into account ability to pay is not fair, that's fairly simple whether you a lefty, righty or anything in between.

It is likely the property taxes will be fairly high and unfortunately most of the money will be wasted funding incompetent and inefficient local councils who have a serious financial shortfall. We already pay for our bins, we will soon be paying for water, we have amongst the highest road taxes in Europe, we have feck all parks, community swimming pools, general amenities. Local public transport systems are very poor. If funding raised by a property tax was ring-fenced to actually provide services (perhaps even create community jobs) and was carefully assessed to see who should/can pay, then fine. Right now though it's just another crude attempt to plug the gap, with more money heading into a black hole.

Elected representatives spend a lot of time intimidating us with scaremongering rubbish (Derek Nolan sent leaflets around the day after the budget with scary numbers and no solutions). I doubt a protest group made up in a large part by pensioners caused too much intimidation. As elected representatives they should expect to be challenged. No one was hurt and it sounds like local media blew this whole thing out of proportion.

If we do not raise taxes how do we pay for services, including social welfare ?

Predalien

padraig47 wrote: »

If we do not raise taxes how do we pay for services, including social welfare ?

Nowhere in my post suggested we do not raise taxes, what I stated was they should be raised in an equitable and fair manner which at present the household charge is not. On your point of social welfare, if we take it that 450,000 people are unemployed and the standard rate of welfare is €188 per week (I know a lot are on less than this and some are on more, but just for a ball park figure) then basic social welfare comes to about €4.4 billion, yet our entire budget for social welfare is €20.5 billion. There is clearly a lot of waste going on, to pay for services it is plainly obvious that the pay and working conditions of state employees have to be changed. This however is the Galway city forum so I'm not going to go into an economic discussion here.

padraig47

Predalien wrote: »

Nowhere in my post suggested we do not raise taxes, what I stated was they should be raised in an equitable and fair manner which at present the household charge is not. On your point of social welfare, if we take it that 450,000 people are unemployed and the standard rate of welfare is €188 per week (I know a lot are on less than this and some are on more, but just for a ball park figure) then basic social welfare comes to about €4.4 billion, yet our entire budget for social welfare is €20.5 billion. There is clearly a lot of waste going on, to pay for services it is plainly obvious that the pay and working conditions of state employees have to be changed. This however is the Galway city forum so I'm not going to go into an economic discussion here.

You have avoided the issue of property tax, which is the nub of the problem here. Property tax will help the local authorities and make our tax system fairer than it is, given that the PAYE sector pay an unfair tax burden compared to those who can emplOy accountants in the self employed sector.

Predalien

Predalien wrote: »

If funding raised by a property tax was ring-fenced to actually provide services (perhaps even create community jobs) and was carefully assessed to see who should/can pay, then fine.

This is what I stated earlier, as you can see I have no issue with a properly thought out property tax.

eire.man

Hello world wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

calm myself down!! will i fcuk and i'll kindly ask you to not to patronise me again please. So now we've gone from you firmly believing the chair was thrown, to ok it wasnt thrown but it looked like it was going to be but was hindered in someway, to now admitting you weren't there at all and instead you're telling me Mollie said he was so he was!! And to further show your ignorance you insist it was a stupid move by the protestor to move the chair above shoulder height in the first place, let me explain something to ya, if you were getting squashed, pushed and moved around a very small room and had nowhere to just push the chairs out of the way due to being confined then the only place a chair can go to be moved is up!!

i have worked in bars and when the place packss up i carried stock/buckets of ice through the crowds above my head, even furniture too to be honest, never once did i see a member of the public afraid for their safety if they seen me coming arms held high in the air!!

I am discussing the news with other members of the forum some who were there and some who were not this thread is not exclusively for people who were at the protest.
And once again I couldn't care less where u har worked so please stop telling me
And I never made it out like I was there

so the truth behind your arguing last night and today here was that you were taking the account of every other person or source except for mine?

You stated that you wouldnt take the word of some random poster online about what happened at the protest, when i begin to prove the papers are lying you suddenly start jumping to other random sources from those who were or weren't down there,

trolling much?

ben.schlomo

eire.man wrote: »

so the truth behind your arguing last night and today here was that you were taking the account of every other person or source except for mine?

You stated that you wouldnt take the word of some random poster online about what happened at the protest, when i begin to prove the papers are lying you suddenly start jumping to other random sources from those who were or weren't down there,

trolling much?

hello world doesnt appear to be trolling at all, simply listening to what was widely reported last night. They arent losing their cool, or using less than intellignet language like you have done in many posts in more than one thread while talking with this particular poster. Stick to the issues instead of disecting little points.

Gold Leaf Tea

Saw a video of the protest earlier. Looked fairly tame tbh.

Wompa1

hehe this kind of thing is pretty funny. No matter how I feel about it I like that the useless politicians felt intimidated because the councillors are a lot like the Occupy protestors. They moan about things to make it seem like they care but never offer good alternatives and rely on the same sources for advice that they've used for years even though they've made nothing but mistakes. Pity it seems from the accounts on here that the people doing the intimidating were acting like A-holes

skelliser

Here is some of the photos i took











The rest are on Galway.com

Doc Ruby

padraig47 wrote: »

If we do not raise taxes how do we pay for services, including social welfare ?

Cut spending in less economically sensitive areas, and reduce taxes to stimulate growth. Reduce spending by 10 billion, reduce taxes by 5 billion, the government comes out 5 billion ahead and the larger economy isn't too badly off.

We can't raise any more taxes, the economy is already reeling. Therefore we have to cut.

BhoscaCapall

Sponge Bob

WHERE is FRED JOHNSTON ???

bildo

Central progressive taxation system including a higher rate of tax for higher earners (over 150k a year).
The household charge is absolute non-sense and exists purely as a means of bleeding more money out of the vast majority of the population to plug a gaping hole in the country's economy created by the bank bailouts. This is undeniable. Why on earth should a multi-millionaire investment banker pay the same rate of property tax as a widowed pensioner struggling to heat her 1 bedroom apartment? This is unjust in the extreme and does nothing but to further the divide between the rich and the poor in this country.

To hell with FG and any elected representative who fails to stand up to this injustice.

This is a clear demonstration of people asserting their power and their will in order to correct a broken system that benefits the few at the expense of the many. Councilors and TDs across the country need to be hounded in the streets constantly until this rotten tax is forgotten and resigned to the annals of history much like Thatchers Poll tax was. These unfair blanket taxes have been defeated before, the water charge last decade for example, and they will be beaten again.
It's a shame we have to get our grannies and grandads to go out and do the fighting for us though. How embarassing it is to be a part of this generation sometimes that pensioners are more radical than students and workers.

No no household charge! Can't pay won't pay!
Forward the revolution!

thesandeman

Thanks for Chairing.

antoobrien

bildo wrote: »

Central progressive taxation system including a higher rate of tax for higher earners (over 150k a year).

We had something like that in the 80s. Guess what happened - Ansbacher, non resident accounts & various (legal and illegal) tax reduction schemes.

Oh yeah, only the middle income earners paid these so called progressive taxes.

We're doomed to repeat the mistakes of our recent past because of suggestions like this.