201 Class Locomotives

dowlingm

steamengine wrote: »

Nostalgia is the thing of the future. Just being proactive in capturing the 'Evening Star' moments of locomotion, as perhaps the 22000 moment may not be too far away for the Enterprise. Does anyone know anything about if, and when, the 22000's will be phased in, as there seems to be plenty of them in Connolly. Great video - thanks Eiretrains. :)

I believe Drogheda depot may be finally ready to accept 22s but until the new sets are released to service this will probably mean Sligo/Rosslare sets being serviced there instead of Portlaoise rather than being placed on Enterprise or even the morning service ex Newry.

Of course it remains to be seen if 22s can tow a DART to Drogheda as the 29s do these days

Losty Dublin

22's won't be crossing the border anytime soon. NIR require a guard on all trains on their track; as of yet they have not trained any guards, drivers or inspector to operate the sets. This means that any 22's running north can only be crewed with Irish Rail staff. In any case, the sets have not been cleared to operate beyond Dundalk nor has NIR been in a position to address this.

steamengine

Losty Dublin wrote: »

22's won't be crossing the border anytime soon. NIR require a guard on all trains on their track; as of yet they have not trained any guards, drivers or inspector to operate the sets. This means that any 22's running north can only be crewed with Irish Rail staff. In any case, the sets have not been cleared to operate beyond Dundalk nor has NIR been in a position to address this.

Which means that, all things being equal, the spectacle of 201's at speed can be enjoyed for some time to come ! The Lady's Bridge between Balbriggan and Skerries is an ideal place to watch the Enterprise, for anyone whose interested !!! The Northbound Enterprise rounds the bend at Barnageera, on to the straight, and down past the footbridge, usually quite fast. A lot quieter than the 071's but if you time it right you might also see a Tara, and almost certainly some Commuters. The Commuters don't sit about either ! :)

dowlingm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

22's won't be crossing the border anytime soon. NIR require a guard on all trains on their track; as of yet they have not trained any guards, drivers or inspector to operate the sets. This means that any 22's running north can only be crewed with Irish Rail staff

Losty could the existing arrangements for the 29s (Newry commuter, Enterprise failure replacement) not be carried over to the 22s or has at least some NIR crew training been done in addition to gauge clearance? Not disputing you, to be clear, just trying to get a sense for how many boxes need to be ticked before a 22 goes north in any circumstance.

The DDs are coming up to the 15 year mark so even if the 22s aren't going to supplement them they will likely be needed to backstop the service when the DDs start needing refurb work, the question is how long can that work be deferred?

Losty Dublin

dowlingm wrote: »

Losty could the existing arrangements for the 29s (Newry commuter, Enterprise failure replacement) not be carried over to the 22s or has at least some NIR crew training been done in addition to gauge clearance? Not disputing you, to be clear, just trying to get a sense for how many boxes need to be ticked before a 22 goes north in any circumstance.

The DDs are coming up to the 15 year mark so even if the 22s aren't going to supplement them they will likely be needed to backstop the service when the DDs start needing refurb work, the question is how long can that work be deferred?

In the case of the sole 29000 that works ex Newry, a man is to be on board to cover the guard duty. The Enterprise replacements are crewed by the already allocated crew of driver and guard as need be so no special arrangement is required. The remedy as I understand it is for NIR to train their staff to accept and handle the sets and for them to be cleared for platform and bridge clearance, signaling, train radio etc. Kingshankly will know more about the specifics as he is a Connolly driver and I'll bow to his call on this

shamwari

steamengine wrote: »

the spectacle of 201's at speed can be enjoyed for some time to come ! The Lady's Bridge between Balbriggan and Skerries is an ideal place to watch the Enterprise, for anyone whose interested !!!

+1 on that. That stretch just below Ardgillan allows any train to do itself justice. The Beller fairly hammers through there. 071 on a laden Tara has to be heard to believed too. Notch 8 at 40mph....:)

kc56

Karsini wrote: »

I remembered hearing the same about 233 after the silencer bypass experiment.

Don't know if it's the same loco, but there's a 201 on the Dublin-Cork service doing its best to emulate an 071 these days. Normally passes by at full power. Good crack from the exhaust at close quarters and a throb as a it heads down the track.

Captain Chaos

kc56 wrote: »

Don't know if it's the same loco, but there's a 201 on the Dublin-Cork service doing its best to emulate an 071 these days. Normally passes by at full power. Good crack from the exhaust at close quarters and a throb as a it heads down the track.

Could be 206, I almost thought there was a tara passing HJ a few months ago only to see 206 with a late Enterprise thunder though the station. Very rare to see an Enterprise go though HJ at any sort of speed these days.

According to IRN it's 220. Seems to be another bypass like 233 used to have.

Oscar Bravo

Sure is 220,saw it on the IWT a few times last year.Lovely sound going up the hill leaving Claremorris.

101sean

Had my camera on my dog walk today, too late for an 071 but this is how close to the line we walk.

228 Cork bound


Well compressed half mile stretch to Milltown Bridge

dowlingm

That picture with the loco is exactly how I think the Achill-Westport greenway should be extended to Claremorris and onwards to Sligo and Athenry. The arrangement could be that IE would have the right to close sections of the greenway from time to time so the greenway could also act as a service road.

Oscar Bravo

Enterprise Loco,207,worked the empty train from Waterford-Ballina today. It will return to Waterford with the laden timber tomorrow(1620 Ex Ballina),a nice photo op as its rare to have a 201,let alone an Enterprise one on a timber.

101sean

Enterprise loco on Cork train through here at around 13.30 yesterday, think it was 233. Crept up on me as I was daydreaming and didn't have time to wield the camera

steamengine

101sean wrote: »

Enterprise loco on Cork train through here at around 13.30 yesterday, think it was 233. Crept up on me as I was daydreaming and didn't have time to wield the camera

Oscar Bravo wrote: »

Enterprise Loco,207,worked the empty train from Waterford-Ballina today. It will return to Waterford with the laden timber tomorrow(1620 Ex Ballina),a nice photo op as its rare to have a 201,let alone an Enterprise one on a timber.

With the 201's I found that you have to keep an eye out for them, unlike the 071's which give you about a 'mile' to get the camera ready. Here's a pic of 207 passing through Harmonstown about a year ago, and 233 passing through Killester a couple of months back.

demanufactured

Those enterprise locos always look manky...you'd think they'd give the a wash once in a while...

Oscar Bravo

207 is alot cleaner at the moment than pictured above,but i agree and the 071s should be washed too.I suppose they knew what they were at when they painted them mostly black.

steamengine

Popped down to nearby Howth Junction earlier, just in time to see 228 hauling the 13.20 dep down Enterprise. Engine humming and turbo whistling nicely as it passed by. :D:D

Rud

Went down to see the usual 071 and DFDS combo last Friday 2nd of March in my hometown station in Athy when i was happily surprised by this beauty,which was far from home.Great to see the Enterprises getting plenty of rotation on the freight trains over the last while

demanufactured

Rud wrote: »

Went down to see the usual 071 and DFDS combo last Friday 2nd of March in my hometown station in Athy when i was happily surprised by this beauty,which was far from home.Great to see the Enterprises getting plenty of rotation on the freight trains over the last while

They do that to give them a break from being run in HEP mode all the time i think.

etchyed

demanufactured wrote: »

They do that to give them a break from being run in HEP mode all the time i think.

Any updates on those Mk3 Generator Vans being put on Enterprise? Is it ever going to happen?

Oscar Bravo

Alot of H and S issues there im told.In other news the loudest 201,220 is resting in Ballina this weekend,parked alongside 207.(Easily seen from the road into Ballina). 220 will work the 0815 Ballina-N.wall IWT liner on Monday-get out and have a listen!! Also,a fair bit of rust is visible on both 207 and 209.

dowlingm

The Enterprise EGVs will be another DBSO fiasco, wait and see. I saw a parliamentary answer on the latter subject during the week which was disingenuous to say the least.

dowlingm

dowlingm wrote: »

The Enterprise EGVs will be another DBSO fiasco, wait and see. I saw a parliamentary answer on the latter subject during the week which was disingenuous to say the least.

They'd want to do something about it. The fuel and engine rebuild costs on the Enterprise must be unreal.

dowlingm

About a year ago I proposed a swap - IE to take on the "NIR" 201s and DDs and send all the Enterprise stock to Heuston. A number of 22K 1st class sets would head the other way when fitted with TPWS supplemented by 22001-06. Differences in capacity would be resolved by extra service and/or yield management.

Here was my justification:
1. The DMUs would probably perform better in mixed traffic until the Northern Line gets fast/slow tracks and god knows when that will be. It might also do better given the speed limitations north of the Border for similar reasons.
2. The 201s would form a large cohort which would make it easy to quickly sub in another for a failed unit without sending locos to/from Connolly.

To which I would add - NIR doesn't seem to "get" locohaul any more. They've done okay with 80/450 and the C3K and C4K sets but the DDs have been a perpetual problem, there was the Gatwicks on which much was spent for little return, the poor performance of the 111s which time in Inchicore seemed to do a lot to fix and so on. The DDs will need a refit soon and I think that will happen best if a single organisation is in charge of it.

While the 22s might need some refitting to approach the comfort expected on an Enterprise 1st car I think extra services by virtue of having a 4th or 5th consist in rotation (one or more being all-econ) would do wonders for the service - if the nutbags could be persuaded to stop causing security alerts on the line that is.

Of course, DMU Dick would have to sign off on all that, and Translink would have to tread carefully since unlike Dick, they really do answer to their political masters.

Oscar Bravo

207 arriving into Claremorris on Thursday....

etchyed

dowlingm wrote: »

The Enterprise EGVs will be another DBSO fiasco, wait and see.

What was the DBSO fiasco? Also, Oscar Bravo mentions Health and Safety issues. I don't really understand, does anyone know what these are, or if not what they could potentially be?

Sorry to ask so many questions, it's just that I find this all quite interesting but I don't have the background knowledge to understand it.

Jehuty42

I think the issue with the Enterprise generator van was that in case of fire there was no access to the van for staff to extinguish it. Being an older engine, it probably doesn't have as good a fire rating as the other carriages in the rake, and it probably lacks automatic fire suppression like the loco engine would have. I don't really understand the holdup myself to be honest.

csd

etchyed wrote: »

What was the DBSO fiasco?

The DBSO fiasco refers to NIR's purchase of a driving trailer to work with the loco-hauled "Gatwick" stock. The trailer (DBSO - Driving Brake Standard Open) has never turned a wheel in revenue service, and is now stored out of use at York road.

Background
NIR purchased a rake of eight BR Mark 2f coaches for use with one of the 111 class locos on peak time Belfast commuter services. These coaches used to work the Gatwick Express service in London, hence the name. They did see some sporadic use with NIR, but the requirement for the loco to run around the carriages at the end of each journey was expensive (shunter required) and time consuming.

To avoid having to run around, a surplus push-pull driving trailer was acquired and expensively refurbished and re-guaged in Glasgow. By the time the work was finally complete, the entire Mk 2 Gatwick rake was surplus to requirements, and now forms part NIR's "strategic stock", slowly rusting away at the sidings in Lisburn.

/csd

dowlingm

etchyed wrote: »

What was the DBSO fiasco? Also, Oscar Bravo mentions Health and Safety issues. I don't really understand, does anyone know what these are, or if not what they could potentially be?

Sorry to ask so many questions, it's just that I find this all quite interesting but I don't have the background knowledge to understand it.

The "Gatwick" set was a set of Mark2f built 1983 which were converted to push-pull for service on the Gatwick Express service. They became surplus and NIR snapped them up in 2001, regauged them to 5ft 3 and used them for about 4 years and thereafter stored them. Because they were pulled around by a 111 and had no driving cab at the far end they had to have the locomotive run around at termini which increases the ratio of non-service time to service time on a given day.

The DBSO (Driving Brake Standard Open) was a UK Mark 2f driving trailer/cab car obtained by NIR. Once commissioned either one of the push pull 201s or, after mods were done, the NIR 111s could push the Gatwick set controlled from the DBSO at the front end.

The DBSO arrived in Belfast over a year late by which time a lot of the need for it had passed but even then it never seemed to do anything even for rugby specials - the Class 3000 had taken over. NIR kept the set in storage, with ministers continually telling the assembly the set was fleet even as vandals got at some of the carriages. This thread from IRN with commentary below will give you a flavour of what ducks and drakes have been played (and what money wasted) on this project.

EDIT: did not see csd's post before hitting save on mine.