201 Class Locomotives

Deutschbahn

03/07/15

Irish Rail 201 no.220+Mk4's no.4006 pass on the 12:00 service to Cork

VIDEO on Youtube:
/watch?v=eXYMmu4imiE

Captain Chaos

216 back from the dead, in unfinished Belmond livery.

Captain Chaos

Here is another view, as can be seen the fuel tank has yet to be fitted and it's still on temporary bogies for the time being. There is good bit of work yet before it returns to service.

Jamie2k9

Is the green just an undercoat?, please say i'ts not the real thing.

Captain Chaos

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Is the green just an undercoat?, please say i'ts not the real thing.

It's the real thing, just not finished. It does look like aircraft paint primer alright. What I don't understand is that in the pictures The Wander posted of the EGV in Kilmarnock it was painted blue.

Jamie2k9

Captain Chaos wrote: »

It's the real thing, just not finished. It does look like aircraft paint primer alright. What I don't understand is that in the pictures The Wander posted of the EGV in Kilmarnock it was painted blue.

That's exactly why I asked as I remember his photo to!

They should of used the Green used for Mark IV, best 201 colors yet and probably the last.

Captain Chaos

I was hoping for an NIR style blue livery to return but no. I'd have rathered the green used in the 2008 Enterprise livery.

GM228

Captain Chaos wrote: »

It's the real thing, just not finished. It does look like aircraft paint primer alright. What I don't understand is that in the pictures The Wander posted of the EGV in Kilmarnock it was painted blue.

The green is an interim livery until summer 2016 AFAIK.

GM228

metrovick001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOvzuT2ZP_Y

Jamie2k9

Was driving into Cork at around 10.30 and saw a 201 heading out towards Cobh/Midleton line.

Any idea's why?

BabyGM146

That was probably 217 going to return the weed sprayer which 074 had worked out to Midleton or Cobh, I'm unsure which.

Jamie2k9

BabyGM146 wrote: »

That was probably 217 going to return the weed sprayer which 074 had worked out to Midleton or Cobh, I'm unsure which.

Thinking it was something like that but it only seems a few weeks since it was last down.

Is the whole network done twice?

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Thinking it was something like that but it only seems a few weeks since it was last down.

Is the whole network done twice?

Some lines were sprayed twice this year and last year depending on how successful the first run was as a result of the weather!

GM228

Captain Chaos

Anyone got any snaps or spot 207, 228 or 233 at Inchicore? They have been missing a while so I assume they are being repainted.

8208 I think is hiding in York Road while 8209 and 227 are the only 2 201s taking turns on the only Enterprise set with DVT 9004 for the past 3 weeks. 206 is gone missing too and last I saw of 231 it was in Mallow on a spoil train.

There was some speculation that 227,228 and 231 will not be repainted into the new Enterprise livery but will stay in the IC livery but with the new Irish Rail double arrow logo like 215 got last year.

GM228

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Anyone got any snaps or spot 207, 228 or 233 at Inchicore? They have been missing a while so I assume they are being repainted.

8208 I think is hiding in York Road while 8209 and 227 are the only 2 201s taking turns on the only Enterprise set with DVT 9004 for the past 3 weeks. 206 is gone missing too and last I saw of 231 it was in Mallow on a spoil train.

There was some speculation that 227,228 and 231 will not be repainted into the new Enterprise livery but will stay in the IC livery but with the new Irish Rail double arrow logo like 215 got last year.

That is the plan at present but with a white logo like on the 071s.

GM228

roundymac

Captain Chaos wrote: »

216 back from the dead, in unfinished Belmond livery.

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but why are you saying back from the dead, was it out of action for a long time?

Captain Chaos

roundymac wrote: »

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but why are you saying back from the dead, was it out of action for a long time?

About 7 years out of service. When the 10 orange 201s were withdrawn 215 was withdrawn from service too with 216 relagated to "taxi" duties only between Inchicore and Heuston. Shortly after 216 failed badly and was never repaired, 215 was reinstated instead.

216 has spent years being used for spare parts for the rest of the fleet.

GM228

Captain Chaos wrote: »

About 7 years out of service. When the 10 orange 201s were withdrawn 215 was withdrawn from service too with 216 relagated to "taxi" duties only between Inchicore and Heuston. Shortly after 216 failed badly and was never repaired, 215 was reinstated instead.

216 has spent years being used for spare parts for the rest of the fleet.

216 is in store for 5 years now and of the three candidates for return initially 216 was the easiest/cheapest to return to service using parts from the other stored 201s.

A second Belmond 201 may come from the active fleet, although with a higher loco availability required by late 2016 it is likely that 225 is the next candidate for return-nothing officially decided yet with 230 but believed to be beyond economic repair and if so will be the first 201 withdrawl.

GM228

Captain Chaos

GM228 wrote: »

nothing officially decided yet with 230 but believed to be beyond economic repair and if so will be the first 201 withdrawl.

GM228

I think the same was said about 206 after it's HEP fire at 10+ years back. It spent about 18 months in Inchicore getting a full rebuild and a few kilometers of cable reinstalled. That was a very big job at the time.

In saying 230 will be the first official withdrawl, I can't see any of the first batch of 201 ever coming back regardless off how much freight we may wish would return to the network.

GM228

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I think the same was said about 206 after it's HEP fire at 10+ years back. It spent about 18 months in Inchicore getting a full rebuild and a few kilometers of cable reinstalled. That was a very big job at the time.

In saying 230 will be the first official withdrawl, I can't see any of the first batch of 201 ever coming back regardless off how much freight we may wish would return to the network.

The difference between 206 and 230 is that from very early on it was decided to fix 206 at a cost of €250,000 and about 20km of wiring, at the time they needed all the 201s and that was also a big deciding factor, there are better stored 201s than 230 and they don't need as many now as when 206 was fixed.

Indeed it's not planed to return any of the orange 201s however the difference between them and 230 is they were only ever officially stored and not withdrawn, 230 may be the first 201 to be withdrawn, storage vs withdrawl dosn't make much of a difference from our point of view but it does make a huge difference for a rail company.

GM228

Jamie2k9

A second Belmond 201 may come from the active fleet, although with a higher loco availability required by late 2016 it is likely that 225 is the next candidate for return-nothing officially decided yet

Why 225, are none of the other stored 201's in better condition? Considering it doesn't need to be PP or are they only returning PP so they can be used on Cork services if required?

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Why 225, are none of the other stored 201's in better condition? Considering it doesn't need to be PP or are they only returning PP so they can be used on Cork services if required?

Off season the Belmond locos will find use on the Cork line (and possibly Belfast if eventually fitted with the new MMIs as it should be getting everyrhing else such as TWPS, AWS etc) aswell as the liners so yes PP required, makes sense to spend a bit extra on a PP loco which has greater flexability.

225 is actually in better condition than a lot of the other stored 201 and has less bits missing, it has had most of it's structural repairs completed and wouldn't be as hard as people think to return to service. It's in better nick mechanically than 216 was!

GM228

Captain Chaos

Never accrued to me that 216 can/will basically fill in for an Enterprise loco off season so long as it gets the new MMI screens filling in the gap left by 230.

metrovick001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01uPdFgG2Lc

Jamie2k9

217 is on Cork currently and not sounding normal, when they usually tick over between duties it begins to reve up and back down continually.

Was a little suprised to see it continuing on Cork services for around 10 days now.

Thedarkb

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

217 is on Cork currently and not sounding normal, when they usually tick over between duties it begins to reve up and back down continually.

Was a little suprised to see it continuing on Cork services for around 10 days now.

That's usually the governor hunting, happens a lot on Honda GX200 generator engines, usually only requires an adjustment. Then again, an EMD 12-710 is a lot larger than your average generator so I could be wrong.

Anyway, from what I can tell, the only difference between the stored and push pull 201s is the coupling, the AAR socket is present and working on both the push pull and non push pull units, why weren't they all ordered with the retractable buffers? It makes no sense to me why they would divide the fleet like that.

metrovick001

Captain Chaos

Despite reports saying 227 will no longer be part of the Enterprise fleet it was spotted yesterday morning in Northwall on the 9:35 IWT liner in the new Enterprise livery. It developed problems before it set off and had to be removed and returned to Inchicore.

With the second Enterprise set very behind schedule 207, 8208 and 8209 have spent weeks sitting around York Road while 206 has covered all workings of the first set after 8208's wheel flat issues.

I have yet to see 228 out in traffic.

metrovick001

226 on Northwall-Ballina IWT liner at Stacumny bridge 23-Dec-15 by Metro Vick, on Flickr

Captain Chaos

Anyone got a picture of the side of 8208 showing it's full EVN. I figured it would be 92-70-0318208-0.
But looking at the front of the loco that does not seem to be the case, looks like NIR went with a different system that does not fall in with Irish Rail's 201 EVN series.


206 and 207 are 92-60-0310206-4 and 92-60-0310207-2.

NIR seem to have moved the 8208 up one digit place and added another number behind the 8208 part but I can't tell what it is.

GM228

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Anyone got a picture of the side of 8208 showing it's full EVN. I figured it would be 92-70-0318208-0.
But looking at the front of the loco that does not seem to be the case, looks like NIR went with a different system that does not fall in with Irish Rail's 201 EVN series.


206 and 207 are 92-60-0310206-4 and 92-60-0310207-2.

NIR seem to have moved the 8208 up one digit place and added another number behind the 8208 part but I can't tell what it is.

208 is 92-70-0382-080-4
209 is 92-70-0382-090-3
As per the NVR.

208 and 209 are under a different system to IE 201s as they come under the UK national rules for EVN numbers.

And for the record:-

*216 is 92-60-0210-216-4
227 is 92-60-0310-227-0
228 is 92-60-0310-228-8
231 is 92-60-0310-231-2
233 is 92-60-0310-233-8

216 is currently registered as above, but should be re-registered as 92-60-0310-216-3 in due course.

Captain Chaos

Don't know why NIR did that but thanks anyway. They could have went with the EVN I thought it was leaving the main loco ID number in the same location within the EVN.

Have a spreadsheett done up with all the loco EVNs even the stored 121,141 and 181s for just ifs....

GM228

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Don't know why NIR did that but thanks anyway

They were required to as they come under the UK rules for EVNs. Each jurisdiction has it's own national rules concerning the 5th to 11th digit of the EVN. The NIR EVNs come under the control of the RSSB in the UK whilst IE EVNs come under the control of the CRR.

There are also a small number of errors in numbers on the NVR and those actually carried by stock, but what is listed in the NVRs are the correct numbers.

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Have a spreadsheett done up with all the loco EVNs even the stored 121,141 and 181s for just ifs....

Of the 121, 141 and 181s only 144, 147, 162, 171, 175 and 177 are assigned EVNs.

No other's were ever registered on the current NVR.

Of note it's an offence not to display an EVN number without reasonable excuse in the state on a rail vehicle in service after 2011!

Rootsblower

IR looking for expressions of interest regarding re-powering 201 class and mud life overhaul just search e-tenders website.

Doesn't specify how many units to be re-powered/overhauled. From reading the tender details all equipment on the loco's except the frame, body, cab controls, traction motors and bogies are being replaced

Perhaps the orange 201's may see use again

Captain Chaos

There is talk of them re engining the 071s too to bring the locos inline with EU Tier 3 emissions control. The only way I can see the orange 201s coming back is to directly replace all the 071s as they finally life expire as they can only haul freight until they have their draw hook coupling modified to the later 201 design to allow for the fitting of drop head auto couplers as required.

Most likely the 201s could end up with a power unit like the CAT in the UK class 68s.

Jamie2k9

Captain Chaos wrote: »

There is talk of them re engining the 071s too to bring the locos inline with EU Tier 3 emissions control. The only way I can see the orange 201s coming back is to directly replace all the 071s as they finally life expire as they can only haul freight until they have their draw hook coupling modified to the later 201 design to allow for the fitting of drop head auto couplers as required.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=97392&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

Looking at the tender it would appear it may be a case of them cutting costs with existing 201's and increased reliability

Captain Chaos

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=97392&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

Looking at the tender it would appear it may be a case of them cutting costs with existing 201's and increased reliability

That will be a massive project for who ever tenders for it. Good luck to them. Wonder what happens if no one bites at the cherry.

Early mothballing of the entire 201 fleet and they go tendering for a small fleet of economical locos. Might actually be cheaper than rebuilding the existing active 201s.

end of the road

Captain Chaos wrote: »

There is talk of them re engining the 071s too to bring the locos inline with EU Tier 3 emissions control.

personally i can't see that happening myself. while the 071 will be around for a long time yet, i'm not sure they would get enough years out of them to justify a new engine? unless of course the engine could be re-used somewhere else outside the EU later on, which if so then re-engining would be a non issue in terms of the expence i think.
if it does happen, i'd say the real reason for re-engining would be the fuel savings new engines would bring. emissions is a good way of selling the pitch to get funding though so if they are using that reason and it works, all the better.

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The only way I can see the orange 201s coming back is to directly replace all the 071s as they finally life expire as they can only haul freight until they have their draw hook coupling modified to the later 201 design to allow for the fitting of drop head auto couplers as required.

i personally can't understand why they couldn't have simply rotated the 201 locos around a bit rather then simply storing some and allowing them to deteriorate. obviously the non pushpulls can't work passenger services but they could work freight. or for god sake at least put some kind of covering on the stored lot, tarp would even be better then nothing?

Captain Chaos wrote: »

That will be a massive project for who ever tenders for it. Good luck to them. Wonder what happens if no one bites at the cherry.

Early mothballing of the entire 201 fleet and they go tendering for a small fleet of economical locos. Might actually be cheaper than rebuilding the existing active 201s.

is there anything light enough availible that could work network wide though? they would be around after the 071 retires so that would have to be taken into account i should imagine. or maybe not

Jamie2k9

Captain Chaos wrote: »

That will be a massive project for who ever tenders for it. Good luck to them. Wonder what happens if no one bites at the cherry.

Early mothballing of the entire 201 fleet and they go tendering for a small fleet of economical locos. Might actually be cheaper than rebuilding the existing active 201s.

I think they will get people to take on the job. Interesting to see if they manage to get them to 125 mph for future years.

I would expect if they don't get takers, then long term they may bite the bullet and convert power cars for the Mark IV, keep a few for freight and I'm sure Belfast will get new stock at some stage if powers cars were not possible.

Rootsblower

I wonder will EMD do a rebuild similar to their USA ECO rebuilds

Captain Chaos

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I think they will get people to take on the job. Interesting to see if they manage to get them to 125 mph for future years.
.

If they are keeping the existing traction motors and bogies as per the tender spec then there is no way they are getting to 125mph. It's not a raw power issue limiting the speed to 100mph.

kc56

Noticed a 201 (213 I think) in Heuston in a new black and grey (silver) livery on a Mk4 set.

flyingsnail

kc56 wrote: »

Noticed a 201 (213 I think) in Heuston in a new black and grey (silver) livery on a Mk4 set.

231 perhaps ?
https://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/2016Photos/May-2016/i-cHd6brP/A

kc56

flyingsnail wrote: »

231 perhaps ?
https://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/2016Photos/May-2016/i-cHd6brP/A

The very train I saw yesterday!

Captain Chaos

Saw missing 8209 outside Connolly shed facing the "wrong" way this evening. I assume it was in Belfast getting finally commissioned for Enterprise work and got turned around at GVS. It won't be working any Enterprise services until it gets turned back around the right way.

Jamie2k9

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Saw missing 8209 outside Connolly shed facing the "wrong" way this evening. I assume it was in Belfast getting finally commissioned for Enterprise work and got turned around at GVS. It won't be working any Enterprise services until it gets turned back around the right way.

Its likely waiting transfer to Inchicore, 075 went to rescue it yesterday

Captain Chaos

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Its likely waiting transfer to Inchicore, 075 went to rescue it yesterday

Do you know where it failed or how it ended up about face? It wasn't outside Connolly at 7am this morning. There was just 227 on the turntable road and 228 on the 7:35 ex Connolly service.

Jonathan

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Its likely waiting transfer to Inchicore, 075 went to rescue it yesterday

Taken a few mins ago.

Jamie2k9

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Do you know where it failed or how it ended up about face? It wasn't outside Connolly at 7am this morning. There was just 227 on the turntable road and 228 on the 7:35 ex Connolly service.

075 went to York Road, no idea how it was turned.

BeardySi

Looks like it was hauled from York Road facing that way (pics and video posted to FB of them approaching Central from York Road yesterday) . Why it was pointing the wrong way in York Road is beyond me.