201 Class Locomotives

Oscar Bravo

234 in Westport with timber train(out Tuesday). 226 in Ballina.230 also in Ballina coupled to the IWT,ready for the morning. (073 noted outside Inchicore yesterday morning)

Oscar Bravo

230 passed through Manulla Junction at 1425 today with the Northwall-Ballina IWT liner. 234 passed through Manulla Junction at 1655 today with a day late Westport-Waterford laden timber.

Oscar Bravo

222 is sitting in Ballina for the weekend after working the Northwall-Ballina IWT liner today.It "ran around" the liner once it arrived in Ballina.

Jamie2k9

208, 218, 219, 223 have all operated a number of Cork services over the last 3 days. 208 was in Heuston and was replaced by another loco didn't get number last night.

Captain Chaos

228 with DD set 9004 was on the 11:00 Connolly - Central.

Just noticed today the DVTs still have the the drop head knuckle couplers fitted. I don't see why they still have them fitted as any loco having to rescue a set will not a knuckle coupler of it's own in place and will still use the standard screw hook method.

They were removed from the Mk4 DVTs after one was involved in a crash, the knuckle came off and went back along the underside of the train causing all sorts of damage to other coaches in the set like a wrecking ball.

corktina

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

208, 218, 219, 223 have all operated a number of Cork services over the last 3 days. 208 was in Heuston and was replaced by another loco didn't get number last night.

208 still on Cork services last night....damn, Im a Trainspotter...

Captain Chaos

corktina wrote: »

208 still on Cork services last night....damn, Im a Trainspotter...

Are you sure?? I saw it on Enterprise duties yesterday and took a pic of it today on the 11:00 Connolly to Central, it was hauling DD set 9003.

corktina

yep im sure

Captain Chaos

corktina wrote: »

yep im sure

This is 208 as in 8208 and the only 201 in the current Enterprise livery, impossible to mix up with any other 201 from any view point or distance.

I saw it last night at 8ish through Clongriffin pushing an Enterprise set. And it's still on Enterprise duties today.

209 is on Cork links currently though.

corktina

it was in Enerprise livery alright and i thought it said 208...didnt say 8208 so must have been 209 i guess...

Captain Chaos

corktina wrote: »

it was in Enerprise livery alright and i thought it said 208...didnt say 8208 so must have been 209 i guess...

Yeah, you can't miss 8208. It only has it's number on each end and offset to the drivers side and none on the sides unlike all the other 201s have theirs centered at each end and on each side of the cab.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/darren_hall/6942001196/

corktina

not only was I trainspotting, but also doing it particularly badly....anyone got a rubber so I can scratch out where I underlind 208 in my Spotting Book?

steamengine

corktina wrote: »

not only was I trainspotting, but also doing it particularly badly....anyone got a rubber so I can scratch out where I underlind 208 in my Spotting Book?

Yea, using a rubber can prevent unwanted posts !!!

steamengine

228 & Enterprise at the Ladies Stairs Bridge - 11:20 approx this morning. Sound quality is poor unfortunately - wind affecting the mic. !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-t8X5HS6Ho

DannyGrey

corktina wrote: »

not only was I trainspotting, but also doing it particularly badly....anyone got a rubber so I can scratch out where I underlind 208 in my Spotting Book?

I am wondering are you a spotter corktina at all , i get the feeling your just on the transport boards with a big wooden spoon in your hand each time , i might be pretty new to this board but you use spotter in you posts alot is it to take the p..s out of peoples interests in railways :cool:

corktina

since you ask, im not a spotter at all, although i used to be when i was a kid. what I am is a railfan, or an enthusiast if you like, it's just that nowadays I share the General Publics faint amusment at spotters collecting numbers and wanting obscure lines re-opened for no better reason than they would like to watch the trains go by
.For me , rail has to make sense either in social or economic terms (or both preferably.), I'm interested in it's future and it's development and I'm sorely afraid that it is endangered in Ireland because of inept management and political interferance.
Sitting behind a keyboard discussing what locos you've seen and posting pics is all very well but at the end of the day, when €106 million is wasted on the WCR and other pie in the sky ideas are pursued on here,someone (and there are a few of us thankfully) needs to stand up and cry "enough"

steamengine

As the OP, could I please request that this emerging debate about 'spotters' either cease or be held elsewhere ?

201 Class locomotives 'per se' is what this thread is all about: technical, operational, videos, photos and observations.

corktina

steamengine wrote: »

As the OP, could I please request that this emerging debate about 'spotters' either cease or be held elsewhere ?

201 Class locomotives 'per se' is what this thread is all about: technical, operational, videos, photos and observations.

Indeed you may ask, however if a veteran poster of 4 posts attacks you , having mis-interpreted a self-deprecating post, what woudl you do?

DannyGrey

corktina wrote: »

Indeed you may ask, however if a veteran poster of 4 posts attacks you , having mis-interpreted a self-deprecating post, what woudl you do?

I might have only 4 posts on here but at the same time i want to add to the 201 thread which i hope i can , i should be able too without the thought of being called a spotter which i dont really care if i am or not i have an interest in railways thats all i can say what i am .



Right now back to the 201s can anyone provide stop dates for 201- 205 + 210- 214 stored at Inchicore and what future there is for the 10 locos

corktina

DannyGrey wrote: »

I might have only 4 posts on here but at the same time i want to add to the 201 thread which i hope i can , i should be able too without the thought of being called a spotter which i dont really care if i am or not i have an interest in railways thats all i can say what i am .



Right now back to the 201s can anyone provide stop dates for 201- 205 + 210- 214 stored at Inchicore and what future there is for the 10 locos

the only person Ive called a trainspotter on this thread is ME!!!. I havent called you anything, in fact I never even noticed you until you decided to have a pop at me!

You have an objection I guess that someone (not me you note) might think you are a bit of an Anorak and then you post asking for the stop dates of various locos... hmmm...

DannyGrey

corktina wrote: »

the only person Ive called a trainspotter on this thread is ME!!!. I havent called you anything, in fact I never even noticed you until you decided to have a pop at me!

You have an objection I guess that someone (not me you note) might think you are a bit of an Anorak and then you post asking for the stop dates of various locos... hmmm...

Well there you go just proves a point that mybe its not worth being a member here , i tried in my last post to get the thread back on track but nope you are still at it well have fun better things todo with my time like taking more numbers down bye bye


P.s hows the family keeping you know me well

Sligo Quay

DannyGrey wrote: »

I might have only 4 posts on here but at the same time i want to add to the 201 thread

I couldn'd resist here, but it shouldnd make any difference how many posts you have DannyGrey, all points of view should be most welcome.
It just comes back to me on a very hot thread which I raised the issue on tresspassing, another poster more or less said I shouldnd have raised this issue because of my post count (not a wet day on boards) well the strange thing I went back to that thread yesterday and found the poster banned and the post deleted, but maybe banned over something else.

Victor

Let's stick to locomotives.

Captain Chaos

DannyGrey wrote: »

Right now back to the 201s can anyone provide stop dates for 201- 205 + 210- 214 stored at Inchicore and what future there is for the 10 locos

3 years ago to the month. They were all more or less stopped together once the Mk3 started being stored.

217 was also in warm storage for a short time in early 2010 but managed to escape Inchicore.

214s last day was 06/08/09 when it failed to start up, 079 dumped it in a siding in Mallow along with a failed 082, 152 then hauled 214 to Inchicore on the 14/08/09 and that was that for 214.

Captain Chaos

Captain Chaos wrote: »

152 then hauled 214 to Inchicore on the 14/08/09 and that was that for 214.

Amazing to think that a 141 outlived a 201.

Oscar Bravo

226 is in Ballina for the weekend after working the IWT liner there yesterday.

dermo88

I was never too keen on the 201's original livery, thinking that the Orange Black and Yellow looked a wee bit too garish, and it did'nt 'match' the rake of Mk2's or Mk3's attached to them. I do like the new 071 colour scheme, it would be nice to see a few of the non P/P fitted 201's done out in that style, and the new Intercity livery on the 201's looks stylish also. My all time favourite though has to be the NIR Blue colour scheme. Simple and smart.

The 201's were not the most reliable on delivery, I remember tales of broken crankshafts and the likes. One suggestion at the time was that the obsession to get the weight down meant that a lot of 'meat' was trimmed off to get them down from the weight on what was essentially an Irish variant of a British Class 59.

demanufactured

dermo88 wrote: »

I was never too keen on the 201's original livery, thinking that the Orange Black and Yellow looked a wee bit too garish, and it did'nt 'match' the rake of Mk2's or Mk3's attached to them. I do like the new 071 colour scheme, it would be nice to see a few of the non P/P fitted 201's done out in that style, and the new Intercity livery on the 201's looks stylish also. My all time favourite though has to be the NIR Blue colour scheme. Simple and smart.

The 201's were not the most reliable on delivery, I remember tales of broken crankshafts and the likes. One suggestion at the time was that the obsession to get the weight down meant that a lot of 'meat' was trimmed off to get them down from the weight on what was essentially an Irish variant of a British Class 59.

The class 59 looks almost identical to a class 66.

Question , Why do BR use so many different types of loco??
class 20
class 37
class 43 HST
class 47
class 50
class 55
class 59
class 60
class 66
class 67
There are more i know but i cant think of them all.

corktina

demanufactured wrote: »

The class 59 looks almost identical to a class 66.

Question , Why do BR use so many different types of loco??
class 20
class 37
class 43 HST
class 47
class 50
class 55
class 59
class 60
class 66
class 67
There are more i know but i cant think of them all.

why DID I guess you mean? Lots of types to match lots of different work is one answer, but developing the brand new (late1950s/1960s) diesel loco buiilding industry is another. Political interferance meant BR were not permitted to buy off-the shelf US locos, a decsion which cost them dear over the years and the mould was only broken in the 1980s by Foster Yeoman privatley buying its fleet of class 59s.There were locos for almost ever class number from 01 to 55 in the original scheme of things , with DC electrics in the 70s and AC electircs in the 80s

Losty Dublin

corktina wrote: »

Political interferance meant BR were not permitted to buy off-the shelf US locos, a decsion which cost them dear over the years and the mould was only broken in the 1980s by Foster Yeoman privatley buying its fleet of class 59s.There were locos for almost ever class number from 01 to 55 in the original scheme of things , with DC electrics in the 70s and AC electircs in the 80s

To add to this; large scale construction of diesel locomotives was largely untried in Europe so there wasn't a wealth of consistent reliable manufacturers out there, let alone in the UK. When the decision was made to go with diesel and electric by BR instead of steam, they had to go with many UK companies to see who would make the better locomotives rather than a small amount of experienced companies as common sense would dictate. This practice resulted in BR taking a lot longer to replace steam than hoped as they struggled to cope with experimental designs such as the Deltic, the application of the Beeching report and the demise of their freight market.

dermo88

What survived, and was successful:

Class 20, Class 37, Class 50 - All 3 are English Electric, although the 50's did have problems with their electronics.

Class 55 uses English Electric components but with a Napier engine.

Losty Dublin is correct. There were a lot of competing manufacturers with little expertise. In the post war climate, Dollars were scarce, as were the preferred option of Bulleid of going down the route of getting General Motors licenced equipment. There were political considerations, unions, pride, and stubborness, such as that amongst the Western region that screwed matters up a lot.

Hindsight is a great teacher. That would dictate the best option being to buy a mix of licenced General Motors and ALCO equipment, and going for a twin cab option of these. Likely you'd end up with something like the bullnose engines of the Danish, Norwegians, etc, and that Britain rather than Scandinavia would be the exporter. And many would be running reconditioned today.

Losty Dublin

dermo88 wrote: »

There were a lot of competing manufacturers with little expertise. In the post war climate, Dollars were scarce, as were the preferred option of Bulleid of going down the route of getting General Motors licenced equipment. There were political considerations, unions, pride, and stubborness, such as that amongst the Western region that screwed matters up a lot.

Could you just imagine, Dermo? A fleet of about 100 121's, a good 600 141's and maybe 60 071's up and down the UK; all top and tailed with Bulleid's iconic cab design?

dermo88

It would be the roundnose design for first generation (equivalents to Class 40's, 37's, 20's). These emerging in the 1957-1961 period. I think the Bulleid cab design would emerge later. The European Sulzer designs heavily influenced early UK styling.

I have left the Germans out for an odd reason. I think their technology, while superior was unable to cope with the rough and tumble of what were mixed traffic depots in many cases.

corktina

left out the Germans? No you didnt, you rubbished the Western Region even though their fleet of Hydraulics were far superior in many respects to their contempories and were essentaially German locos built under license. The problem was they were relativley hi-tech but were being maintained in Steam Sheds...not good. Ultimatley (after many many many trails and tribulations they , and especially the Western Class 52s settled down to be excellent locos, but were killed off by the decision to standardise on heavy weight Diesel Electrics.

dermo88

Thanks corktina

This is going to be rather divisive. Frankly, until recently, Hydraulic transmissions with a single engine were unable to cope with power loadings above 2,000hp (1.5 MW) on a Single engine.

I have never rubbished the Western designs. Just that they were non standard, and a non standard fleet costs a hell of a lot more to manage. Manufacturing under licence unfortunately was a failure with the North British Locomotive produced diesels. There was a learning curve, and an expensive one at that. Britain wanted to run them constantly at 90mph speeds, despite the Germans warning them that they were not meant to be run at more than 75mph, hence the list of transmission overloads, bogie fractures and the rest. Meanwhile, the English Electrics and Sulzers, slogged on being beat up to ribbons, and still survived.

Two engines will always be more expensive to maintain than one. Even the Germans got rid of theirs by the early 1980's, and they are a design icon. What became the workhorse throughout Europe?

Diesel Electric.

We are reaching a point in time where its becoming two design philosophies, and its narrowing down to a railway parralel between the Airbus-Boeing battle.

On the left, for Heavy Freight and mixed passenger workings, its the Diesel Electric, using General Motors, General Electric, and to a lesser extent some German Manufacturers.

On the right for Express Passenger, medium to light shunting, we have MAN/Paxman/Voith.

The Western region in using Diesel Hydraulic was ahead of its time. Very much so. But longevity won out. Heck, we have the descendent of the original English Electric Engine still going strong in the latest locomotives exported to New Zealand and Malaysia in their purchases from Dalian Locomotive works in China.

Hindsight is a great teacher. Ireland has done very well from using General Motors. Given what was required, lets see:

Co-Co / A1A-A1A, Mixed Traffic, 80mph capable, 15 tonne axleload:
Bo-Bo....Mixed Traffic, Branch line, 60mph capable, 15 tonne axleload.

Our choices are for the A Class with 1,200hp and the C Class of 550hp.

Sulzer
English Electric
Maybach and other Germans
French Manufacturers
Metrovick
General Motors
Alco

The American offers are too heavy at the time for Irish track (1954). It was needless to say a system which needed Narrow gauge axleloads on Standard gauge or Broad gauge track. In fact, when we see what the 201's and 071's are, that is actually still the case, but it was far more extreme in the 1950's.

I'd personally have gone for English Electric in the economics of the time, but the idea of the boys at Inchicore having to manage something with English Electric written on it may have been unpalatable, bearing in mind we were barely a generation from saying 'burn everything British but their coal'.

The Germans would have cost an absolute fortune at the time, easily 25% more than the British competitor, but would last if maintained right. Not something which happens in Ireland, where its a case of fuel them and flog them. This is something the GM equipment has proven itself capable of time and time again from the likes of India to Latin America to Africa. The German equipment does not last in such areas at all.

Political considerations really screwed it up.

Losty Dublin

dermo88 wrote: »

Our choices are for the A Class with 1,200hp and the C Class of 550hp.

Sulzer
English Electric
Maybach and other Germans
French Manufacturers
Metrovick
General Motors
Alco

The American offers are too heavy at the time for Irish track (1954). It was needless to say a system which needed Narrow gauge axleloads on Standard gauge or Broad gauge track. In fact, when we see what the 201's and 071's are, that is actually still the case, but it was far more extreme in the 1950's.

I'd personally have gone for English Electric in the economics of the time, but the idea of the boys at Inchicore having to manage something with English Electric written on it may have been unpalatable, bearing in mind we were barely a generation from saying 'burn everything British but their coal'.

The Germans would have cost an absolute fortune at the time, easily 25% more than the British competitor, but would last if maintained right. Not something which happens in Ireland, where its a case of fuel them and flog them. This is something the GM equipment has proven itself capable of time and time again from the likes of India to Latin America to Africa. The German equipment does not last in such areas at all.

Political considerations really screwed it up.

Back you up on something here, Dermo.

GM were liasing with CIE for over a decade about supplying loco's and CIE were very keen to purchase from them, even before Bulleid was around and he had a stiffy for their product. Only one thing stopped them from purchasing; a lack of $ to pay for the fleet as distinct to a lack of money. When the push to eliminate steam was made, the cash came from the cabinet coffers so effectively it was what they wanted to go for that decided what CIE got. GM's bid was superior to every other bid in what they offered and Inchicore knew they were the preferred bidder in every way bar being slightly dearer; CIE actually worked out that the GM bid would, in one year, save them more than the cost of the cheapest bid in operational economies. However, cabinet made the call and the gig went to Metro Vicks, Irish meat and dairy produce oddly being sold to the UK at the same meeting :roll eyes:

Anyway, the decision was made and CIE received the 96 loco's to complement their 2 homegrown Sulzers as well as the Birmingham built locos that became the 101 class. In fairness to the Metro Vick fleet, they were well built with good electrics and were largely favored by drivers but their primary fall down was in an engine that was proven to work but in boats and stationary generators, not motive vehicles. The fitters in Inchicore were only getting used to diesel by the time the first A Class engines were delivered (Some say quicker than the Metro Vick techies who built them!) but they adapted very well to the new beasts and kept them ticking over on the road for over 30 years.

corktina

western region locos with a single engine were limited to the Hymek class 35 at 1750bhp. The Warship 42/43 classes and the Western class 52 were twin engine design, with a good "get you home capability" assuming only one engine failed :-) which it often did in the early years...

The NBL locos were a disaster (class 43) largely used for freight and early withdrawals but the class 42s were much better (Swindon built ....of course...) To see TWO if these power the Cornish Riviera through Reading station on full power after the slack coming off the Berks and Hants line was almost orgasmic.

You might gather I'm a Hydraulic fan...so much for anyone who might say I'm not a Rail Enthusiast!

Having said that I was quickly converted to 001 class and 121 as amongst my all time favourites when I met them first in the late 70s

miller50841

Sorry to go off thread just wondering what has and is happening to all the old engines and carriages ?

Losty Dublin

miller50841 wrote: »

Sorry to go off thread just wondering what has and is happening to all the old engines and carriages ?

Stopped 201's are stored in Inchicore and are started on a semi regular basis to charge batteries and to help prevent engines from seizing. Mark 3's are tendered for scrapping after no approaches were made to sell them on as working stock.

dermo88

Thanks again Losty

We also have to remember that Europe was nowhere near as economically integrated as it is today.

If we go and plump for Maybach, MAN, MTU you still need Deutschmarks.
If we go for Brissonleau and Lotz you need French Francs
If we go for NOHAB we need Swedish Kronor
If we go for Sulzer we need Swiss Francs
If we go for GM we need Dollars

ALL of these were scarce or practically non-existent in the Irish Central Bank coffers which was still part of the Sterling zone and dictating Irish economic policy through London. Ireland was a Sterling user until 1979. Not only the Irish Central Bank, Irish state finance was handled by Bank of Ireland until the late 1960's.

So a half decent quality English Electric is off the cards (fortunately). The Sulzer 101's were a damn good quality engine.

"Irish meat and dairy produce oddly being sold to the UK at the same meeting :roll eyes:"

Its the best thing we had to offer at the time, apart from navvies to slog away on the M62, M5, M1, etc, and make a generation of Irishmen who pretended to be Irish on St Patricks Day, but were born in England. Heck, the job of many of those locomotives was to bring emigrants to the Boat trains on a one way trip, and then haul 15 coach rakes of them on holidays at Christmas, Summer, Easter from Carlisle Pier, Rosslare, North Wall, Cobh, Waterford......

Captain Chaos

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Stopped 201's are stored in Inchicore and are started on a semi regular basis to charge batteries and to help prevent engines from seizing. Mark 3's are tendered for scrapping after no approaches were made to sell them on as working stock.

I reckon some of the stopped 201s have been stripped for parts to keep the others running.

204 spent a long time in the middle of the 141 scrap line next to the mainline at Inchicore during 2010. It was blocked right in the middle of about 5 or 6 of the withdrawn 141s, I was convinced that 204 was up for scrap and stripped of all useful spare parts at that stage.

Captain Chaos

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I reckon some of the stopped 201s have been stripped for parts to keep the others running.

216 certainly has been stripped.

steamengine

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Back you up on something here, Dermo.

GM were liasing with CIE for over a decade about supplying loco's and CIE were very keen to purchase from them, even before Bulleid was around and he had a stiffy for their product. Only one thing stopped them from purchasing; a lack of $ to pay for the fleet as distinct to a lack of money. When the push to eliminate steam was made, the cash came from the cabinet coffers so effectively it was what they wanted to go for that decided what CIE got. GM's bid was superior to every other bid in what they offered and Inchicore knew they were the preferred bidder in every way bar being slightly dearer; CIE actually worked out that the GM bid would, in one year, save them more than the cost of the cheapest bid in operational economies. However, cabinet made the call and the gig went to Metro Vicks, Irish meat and dairy produce oddly being sold to the UK at the same meeting :roll eyes:

Anyway, the decision was made and CIE received the 96 loco's to complement their 2 homegrown Sulzers as well as the Birmingham built locos that became the 101 class. In fairness to the Metro Vick fleet, they were well built with good electrics and were largely favored by drivers but their primary fall down was in an engine that was proven to work but in boats and stationary generators, not motive vehicles. The fitters in Inchicore were only getting used to diesel by the time the first A Class engines were delivered (Some say quicker than the Metro Vick techies who built them!) but they adapted very well to the new beasts and kept them ticking over on the road for over 30 years.

It appears nevertheless that they stuck with the Crossleys for 10-14 years before re-engining. I think they were generally regarded as maintenance intensive, rather than being an outright failure, otherwise they couldn't have operated for that long. It must have come at some cost to keep them operational.

Losty Dublin

steamengine wrote: »

It appears nevertheless that they stuck with the Crossleys for 10-14 years before re-engining. I think they were generally regarded as maintenance intensive, rather than being an outright failure, otherwise they couldn't have operated for that long. It must have come at some cost to keep them operational.

It was more of a case of not being in a position to re-engine them and giving them time than wanting to stand by them. Even before the last specimens of A's were built, there was rectification of wholesale issues with the engines that required a lot of warranty shop time on them. Indeed, this low availability (50% at it's trough) led to Bulleid and his board getting their way with the Cabinet and making what was a panic order from GM (They offered a 10 month completion of the order) for what we now know as the 121 class and in 1961, the 37 members of the 141 class. CIE wanted to refit the A and C class fleet by then but the bigger problem was aquiring 96 powerheads, or more accurately, a willing supplier of same.

GM was the preferred choice after their orders were seen to be highly reliable but they, like most other companies, wanted to supply whole units if possible but certainly not powerheads for fear of association with the Metro Vick brand. Maybach supplied two engines for C's but they weren't much better than what they replaced while Mirlees and Sulzer, two other interested parties and companies that CIE hadn't been too happy with given past experiences. Eventually, GM agreed to the order of 60 engines for the A's and 30 for the C's (233 and 234 being Maybach powered by then) along with the supply of what were the 181 class to help sweeten them up.

Overall, the experience was a success with the GM order and it expanded the A and C's operational flexibity given their larger power to rail capability, faster speeds and general availability.

dermo88

Losty Dublin

Maybach supplied two engines for C's but they weren't much better than what they replaced while Mirlees and Sulzer, two other interested parties and companies that CIE hadn't been too happy with given past experiences.

The Maybachs were only a small two engine batch. Its possible down to the use of shunters (E401/E421) that they got ordered.

Mirlees, would'nt touch with a bargepole.
Sulzer, is the best choice of a European manufacturer instead of GM. But even then, in terms of reliability, it does not come close.

In fairness to the Metro Vick fleet, they were well built with good electrics and were largely favored by drivers but their primary fall down was in an engine that was proven to work but in boats and stationary generators, not motive vehicles.

The electrics and build was superb, apart from the engine, which while fine in a Marine environment was not suited to the rough and tumble of stopping and starting on a railway. Their longevity bears testament to that.

Though.....I'll never understand the thinking behind a 550hp BoBo. It seems distinctly underpowered for its remit.

Losty Dublin

dermo88 wrote: »

The Maybachs were only a small two engine batch. Its possible down to the use of shunters (E401/E421) that they got ordered.

You are almost right; apparently they pretty much gave CIE two engines at a good price to try out after CIE weren't too willing to talk to them about it. They were a bit easier on fuel than a GM but they were an awkward 4 stroke cycle and they went down a fair bit.

dermo88 wrote: »

Sulzer, is the best choice of a European manufacturer instead of GM. But even then, in terms of reliability, it does not come close.

The Sulzer units in the 101 class were not very reliable but they were a pre war design. Something else that the Sulzer had was a turbocharger and to a mid speed low weight system, this wasn't essential so a supercharged engine was going to be cheaper to fuel. As an bythought on this, the engine supplied for the A class was virtually identical to that in an 071 bar for the turbo; the A was capable enough in it's own right.

dermo88 wrote: »

TThough.....I'll never understand the thinking behind a 550hp BoBo. It seems distinctly underpowered for its remit.

The C Class were earmarked for lighter branch work on the likes of Ardee, Foynes, Ballinrobe etc. The thought was that 550Hp was an increase of what most steam engines offered at rail so that's what was fitted.

dermo88

Losty Dublin

I learned more off you in a few days than 7 years of self opinionated bull excrement expressed by myself on IRN between 2001-2009. Your Dad was an engineer in Inchicore, and despite my horrifically right wing nonsense over the years, you are NOW giving me, and others a clue of the realiy. For that, thanks....

Frankly speaking, please accept my apologies for my past right wing stance. The ones I really wanted shot are CIE management. Not the workers.....

Christ........no wonder I got banned for 6 months....I knew too little, yet spoke too much. An internet A Class engine tackling Maedhbh

Sligo Quay

dermo88 wrote: »

Losty Dublin

I learned more off you in a few days than 7 years of self opinionated bull excrement expressed by myself on IRN between 2001-2009.

Christ........no wonder I got banned for 6 months....I knew too little, yet spoke too much.

About time:D

dermo88

Sligo Quay

Please do not be under any illusions that I have seen some railroad to Damascus. There are all kinds of namby pamby theories on how Iarnrod Eireann could work better. My preference will be towards lousy basic pay but decent bonuses if management and workforce perform. Thats fine in theory, reality is another matter.

Now...meanwhile, back on topic, the 201's. Probably the best looking locomotives to grace Irish Rails, although the A Class with the Iarnrod Eireann white stripe likely win in my eyes.

Cookie_Monster

dermo88 wrote: »

What survived, and was successful:

Class 20, Class 37, Class 50 - All 3 are English Electric, although the 50's did have problems with their electronics.

There've been a few more than that, those above are the most successful, particularly 37s but class 08 are everywhere, even now (78 listed on Wikipedia as still in mainline service, not to mention industry). Class 47 and 57 are still around and of the newer ones class 60s still achieve much of the super heavy work. 66 are everywhere but are of course not UK made.

In the 2nd level 24,25,26,27 and 31s all lasted successfully a fair while until multiple units and lack of light freight started to kill them off. Indeed 31s are still around for Network Rail.

Not to mention the Detics, one of which is back in service now