Gaming News

gizmo

So, there's been a bit of Epic Store related news at GDC today. The biggest aspects being new exclusives in the form of...

The Outer Worlds and Ancestors: The Humankind Odyssey from Take-Two Interactive.

Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls and Detroit: Become Human from Quantic Dream.

Control from Remedy.

And also, rather intriguingly...

Epic also revealed that Deep Silver's Metro: Exodus sold more than 2.5 times as many copies in its first few weeks on the Epic Games store in comparison to the previous franchise release (Metro: Last Light) on Steam over the same period of time.

TitianGerm

gizmo wrote: »

So, there's been a bit of Epic Store related news at GDC today. The biggest aspects being new exclusives in the form of...

The Outer Worlds and Ancestors: The Humankind Odyssey from Take-Two Interactive.

Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls and Detroit: Become Human from Quantic Dream.

Control from Remedy.

And also, rather intriguingly...

I think Epic are going to try lock Borderlands 3 down to their store. The lower take from Epic would be huge for Gearbox and the game is going to be a hit anyway.

Kiith

Not surprising Metro Exodus sold better, as it was a far bigger release then the previous two games (plus had a bigger fan base because of the two previous games). As for the rest, never expected them to come to the pc anyway, so i guess i will keep not expecting them.

TitianGerm wrote: »

I think Epic are going to try lock Borderlands 3 down to their store. The lower take from Epic would be huge for Gearbox and the game is going to be a hit anyway.

They will try and get an exclusive they can, regardless of what people think.

Bringing exclusivity for non first party games is a real ****ty thing to do, which nobody on the pc wants.

TitianGerm

Kiith wrote: »

Not surprising Metro Exodus sold better, as it was a far bigger release then the previous two games (plus had a bigger fan base because of the two previous games). As for the rest, never expected them to come to the pc anyway, so i guess i will keep not expecting them.


They will try and get an exclusive they can, regardless of what people think.

Bringing exclusivity for non first party games is a real ****ty thing to do, which nobody on the pc wants.

Developers want to save money where they can so if it's worth their while it'll be on the Epic store going forward.

gizmo

TitianGerm wrote: »

I think Epic are going to try lock Borderlands 3 down to their store. The lower take from Epic would be huge for Gearbox and the game is going to be a hit anyway.

A minor point but I'd be amazed if 2K didn't have some kind of publishing agreement with Gearbox for the Borderlands series. With 2K being a subsidiary of Take-Two and said publisher now having a pretty established relationship with Epic for the Store, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if you were correct.

As for Metro, as Kiith said, Exodus was certainly a bigger release again this time but it's also worth considering that Last Light was released in 2013 when, even on PC, physical sales were still considerably higher than they are now. I'd wager that had an additional hand in the disparity this time around.

Kiith

It's on the Epic store because Epic threw massive bags of money at them. Just look at the Phoenix Point dev, who pointed out that even if they had to refund all pre-orders, they'd still break even with the bag of cash from Epic. I don't deny that it's an enticing offer for developers, but exclusivity is a ****ty practice.

Do whatever you want with your own games (i.e. Uplay and Origin), but buying out other games well into their development and making them exclusive (even if it's timed) is not something anyone wants on the pc.

And i'm far from being Steam's biggest fan, but it is a far superior platform (and will be for a long time).

TitianGerm

Kiith wrote: »

It's on the Epic store because Epic threw massive bags of money at them. Just look at the Phoenix Point dev, who pointed out that even if they had to refund all pre-orders, they'd still break even with the bag of cash from Epic. I don't deny that it's an enticing offer for developers, but exclusivity is a ****ty practice.

Do whatever you want with your own games (i.e. Uplay and Origin), but buying out other games well into their development and making them exclusive (even if it's timed) is not something anyone wants on the pc.

And i'm far from being Steam's biggest fan, but it is a far superior platform (and will be for a long time).

But honestly what difference does it make to the consumer? Its not as if you need to buy a new PC or different hardware to access the game if it's exclusive to Epic or wherever. You just have to download a new store, that's hardly an inconvenience.

gimli2112

^the question I was afraid to ask

EoinHef

How anyone cant see why making games an exclusive of a single storefront on PC is bad is beyond me.

What if they use the exclusivity to push up the price of games. Eliminating all competition through exclusivity in the process would certainly help them in that regard. Will people still be happy to have just another launcher then? Is basically eliminating competition in the interests of consumers?

Then you have the feature disparity,being forced to buy from a platform in 2019 that doesnt even have cloud saves!!

One of the great things about PC is your not locked into one eco system like consoles. Choice has been abundent,id wager most people that dont like Epics strategy as they would like the platform to stay that way.

TitianGerm

EoinHef wrote: »

How anyone cant see why making games an exclusive of a single storefront on PC is bad is beyond me.

What if they use the exclusivity to push up the price of games. Eliminating all competition through exclusivity in the process would certainly help them in that regard. Will people still be happy to have just another launcher then? Is basically eliminating competition in the interests of consumers?

Then you have the feature disparity,being forced to buy from a platform in 2019 that doesnt even have cloud saves!!

One of the great things about PC is your not locked into one eco system like consoles. Choice has been abundent,id wager most people that dont like Epics strategy as they would like the platform to stay that way.

Well everyone seems to want everything on Steam. What happens in the future if Steam decide to jack up the prices to €90 for new releases? More competition is better. If Epic offer lower store cuts to developers and they all start going that direction then Steam will lower their take. It only benefits the developer.

Now what needs to happen is the savings are passed on either fully (unlikely) or partially to the consumer. Say the Epic deal saves the developer €10 per game and they decided to reduce the price of the game by €5 then the consumer benefits. That's a win for everyone involved.

earthwormjack

TitianGerm wrote: »

But honestly what difference does it make to the consumer? Its not as if you need to buy a new PC or different hardware to access the game if it's exclusive to Epic or wherever. You just have to download a new store, that's hardly an inconvenience.

No Linux support
No cloud saves
No mod support
No community guides or walkthroughs
No big picture mode
No in home streaming
No family sharing
Higher prices and zero price competition from other stores.
No automated refunds

These are all features that matter to me, and without them offers plenty of inconvenience and I'm sure many others might think similar. Saying "it's just another launcher" is a nonsense argument and completely disingenuous.

The Epic Store at the moment is as anti-consumer as it gets.

dreamers75

TitianGerm wrote: »

Now what needs to happen is the savings are passed on either fully (unlikely) or partially to the consumer. Say the Epic deal saves the developer €10 per game and they decided to reduce the price of the game by €5 then the consumer benefits. That's a win for everyone involved.

Thats not going to happen tho, Epics money gaurantees development is covered to a point.

Case in point Metro is €59.99 on Epic and was €59.99 on Steam. Deep Silver give €8 for every sale compared to €18.

TitianGerm

dreamers75 wrote: »

Thats not going to happen tho, Epics money gaurantees development is covered to a point.

Case in point Metro is €59.99 on Epic and was €59.99 on Steam. Deep Silver give €8 for every sale compared to €18.

Metro was offered at a reduced price in the US on Epic though. Ideally they'd do that worldwide though.

earthwormjack

TitianGerm wrote: »

Metro was offered at a reduced price in the US on Epic though. Ideally they'd do that worldwide though.

Steam Pre-order keys were still cheaper on 3rd party sites before becoming epic exclusive. The game ended up being more expensive.

TitianGerm

earthwormjack wrote: »

No Linux support
No cloud saves
No mod support
No community guides or walkthroughs
No big picture mode
No in home streaming
No family sharing
Higher prices and zero price competition from other stores.
No automated refunds

These are all features that matter to me, and without them offers plenty of inconvenience and I'm sure many others might think similar. Saying "it's just another launcher" is a nonsense argument and completely disingenuous.

The Epic Store at the moment is as anti-consumer as it gets.

I haven't seen much of a difference in prices on either store.

How many of those did Steam have at launch or within 12 months? Epic is still early doors yet so needs time to add more features.

I don't care either way. If there's a game I want I'll buy it wherever it's cheapest. If I don't want it at launch I'll buy it a few weeks later when it's even cheaper.

EoinHef

TitianGerm wrote: »

Well everyone seems to want everything on Steam. What happens in the future if Steam decide to jack up the prices to €90 for new releases? More competition is better. If Epic offer lower store cuts to developers and they all start going that direction then Steam will lower their take. It only benefits the developer.

Now what needs to happen is the savings are passed on either fully (unlikely) or partially to the consumer. Say the Epic deal saves the developer €10 per game and they decided to reduce the price of the game by €5 then the consumer benefits. That's a win for everyone involved.

Steam requires zero exclusivity as a store. Developers can sell there games on any other platform,including epics,while also selling on steam. Epic are doing the opposite,there paying large sums of money to make games exclusive to their platform only.

You say more competition is better but you dont mind epic paying to effectively eliminate all competition?

Your spot on,it only benefits the developer,not nessacerily the consumer. In fact theres plenty of things to point to that it actually disadvantegs the consumer ie less features on the epic store.

There is no eveidence that the saving for developers will be passed to consumers. The one time it happened with metro it was region specific and was used as a tool to try and assuage the anger of consumers being told use the epic launcher or dont buy the game,and this was after months of the developer getting pre order sales on steam.

TitianGerm

earthwormjack wrote: »

Steam Pre-order keys were still cheaper on 3rd party sites before becoming epic exclusive. The game ended up being more expensive.

But key retailers aren't what we're really talking about, we're on about the actual official stores.

You can say the same thing for PS, Xbox or Switch games and buying games from Key sites or different regions to get them cheaper.

TitianGerm

EoinHef wrote: »

Steam requires zero exclusivity as a store. Developers can sell there games on any other platform,including epics. Epic are doing the opposite,there paying large sums of money to make games exclusive to their platform only.

You say more competition is better but you dont mind epic paying to effectively eliminate all competition?

Your spot on,it only benefits the developer,not nessacerily the consumer. In fact theres plenty of things to point to that it actually disadvantegs the consumer ie less features on the epic store.

There is no eveidence that the saving for developers will be passed to consumers. The one time it happened with metro it was region specific and was used as a tool to try and assuage the anger of consumers being told use the epic launcher or dont buy the game,and this was after months of the developer getting pre order sales on steam.

What I'm saying is most people complain when something won't be available on Steam. If the majority had their way they would only have Steam. If Steam is the only store they create an exclusive platform. This is a problem as well.

Again, it's not really exclusive if you only have to download a new Store front to get a game. Your creating a barrier to entry yourself.

earthwormjack

TitianGerm wrote: »

I haven't seen much of a difference in prices on either store.

How many of those did Steam have at launch or within 12 months? Epic is still early doors yet so needs time to add more features.

I don't care either way. If there's a game I want I'll buy it wherever it's cheapest. If I don't want it at launch I'll buy it a few weeks later when it's even cheaper.

Key sites generally have the games from 10 to 20% cheaper at least. That adds up a lot over time.

As for features the Epic Store is competing now in 2019. Whatever features steam launched with in 2004/05 is irrelevant. I don't expect all of them but even the most basic ones would be nice.

Where you wish to spend your money is your choice and if you don't really use any of the features of other launchers that's fine obviously.

But good luck getting good sales on the store, the head of epic store is actively against them and has mentioned encouraging developers not to have deep sales.

TitianGerm

earthwormjack wrote: »

Key sites generally have the games from 10 to 20% cheaper at least. That adds up a lot over time.

As for features the Epic Store is competing now in 2019. Whatever features steam launched with in 2004/05 is irrelevant. I don't expect all of them but even the most basic ones would be nice.

Where you wish to spend your money is your choice and if you don't really use any of the features of other launchers that's fine obviously.

But good luck getting good sales on the store, the head of epic store is actively against them and has mentioned encouraging developers not to have deep sales.

Where do the key sites get the codes? With stolen credit cards or cheaper regions? That's usually how it goes for the console ones, but not sure if it's the same with PC?

Yes they are competing in 2019 but it's a new product for them. Launch a more streamlined product now and troubleshoot problems as they arise. Once those are sorted add more features and troubleshoot problems that arise with these. Too much at once and you could create an absolute s**tstorm for yourself if something goes wrong. In another 12 months if it's still as bare bones then obviously goodwill will obviously be gone.

Where the good sales happen is irrelevant if you avail of all stores though. You can buy any game you want when it hits a price your happy with.

EoinHef

TitianGerm wrote: »

What I'm saying is most people complain when something won't be available on Steam. If the majority had their way they would only have Steam. If Steam is the only store they create an exclusive platform. This is a problem as well.

Again, it's not really exclusive if you only have to download a new Store front to get a game. Your creating a barrier to entry yourself.

Steam,despite its stature in the PC market,does not tie developers into exclusives. I like the idea of competition as well and would normally welcome someone like epic into the space. This gives more competition.

Epic coming into the market and saying buy games from us or dont play them on PC is not something that stokes competition,its the exact opposite. It basically elimiates all competition.

If your happy to be locked into a inferior platform for the sake of developers making more money id say your entitles to you opinion,but as i said earlier,its beyond me how it can be considered a good thing.

earthwormjack

TitianGerm wrote: »

Where do the key sites get the codes? With stolen credit cards or cheaper regions? That's usually how it goes for the console ones, but not sure if it's the same with PC?

Yes they are competing in 2019 but it's a new product for them. Launch a more streamlined product now and troubleshoot problems as they arise. Once those are sorted add more features and troubleshoot problems that arise with these. Too much at once and you could create an absolute s**tstorm for yourself if something goes wrong. In another 12 months if it's still as bare bones then obviously goodwill will obviously be gone.

Where the good sales happen is irrelevant if you avail of all stores though. You can buy any game you want when it hits a price your happy with.

The codes are supplied from the publisher. Free of charge from Valve and unlimited quantity, then given to publisher authorised resellers.

Fair point regarding the features I guess but ya got to launch with some. Even a wishlist, cloud saves and the like. The store was under development for 3 years. Plenty of time to have the basic ones but point taken.

But you can't avail of all stores regarding Epic Store games. They're locked down to only their store at the minute. Something completely at odds with PC gaming. Epic have just announced that they will be selling game keys on the Humble Store, so that's a tiny start in the right direction at least.

TitianGerm

EoinHef wrote: »

Steam,despite its stature in the PC market,does not tie developers into exclusives. I like the idea of competition as well and would normally welcome someone like epic into the space. This gives more competition.

Epic coming into the market and saying buy games from us or dont play them on PC is not something that stokes competition,its the exact opposite. It basically elimiates all competition.

If your happy to be locked into a inferior platform for the sake of developers making more money id say your entitles to you opinion,but as i said earlier,its beyond me how it can be considered a good thing.

Steam doesn't tie developers but consumers complain if it's not on Steam. I'd wager that most consumers would never use another PC store if they could. If that happened then Steam would be the only PC store and that would be horrible for a consumer.

But there is nothing to stop you from accessing the Epic Store to purchase that "exclusive" game bar you yourself.

The store is very bare bones now but it's early days. You would hope that developers do start to pass on some of the savings to the consumer but unfortunately we won't know until it actually happens.

Retr0gamer

gizmo wrote: »

I guess I just wish they had done a separate Gameboy series release and given us the correct chronological releases instead of going with the mix and match approach?

Contra-wise, I wasn't aware the Playstation releases were particularly strong. Are any of the other ones worth a shot?

The problem with the gsmeboy ones is the first one is a bit weak and the third is pants. Only good one is the great second game.

As for the PlayStation contra games, the two PS1 games are utter ****.

Shattered soldier though was made by most of the old hard corp team and is pretty excellent. Not hard corp or contra 3 excellent but a really worthy game. Neo Contra is a lot of fun but just way too easy.

In also hoping they might include the three rebirth games they made for wiiware. They were all excellent but are now impossible to get now as they are exclusive to wiiware.

EoinHef

TitianGerm wrote: »

Steam doesn't tie developers but consumers complain if it's not on Steam. I'd wager that most consumers would never use another PC store if they could. If that happened then Steam would be the only PC store and that would be horrible for a consumer.

But there is nothing to stop you from accessing the Epic Store to purchase that "exclusive" game bar you yourself.

The store is very bare bones now but it's early days. You would hope that developers do start to pass on some of the savings to the consumer but unfortunately we won't know until it actually happens.

Your talking about something that hasnt happened in all the years steam has been going in your first paragraph. Steam hasnt tried to eliminate competition. It is not a platform that ties devs to its platform only. And im not suggesting every game should be only on steam,you are the one saying that others think that way. If steam decided to to tie games to exclusivity deals id be just as critical of them

Free and open competition can only be a good thing for consumers,artificially limiting that competition is only good for corporations and their share holders.

As for me creating my own barrier,if by that you mean i dont want to spend my hard earned cash in a fenced in eco system that has zero benefit and quite a few negatives to the consumer you would be right. And why anyone else would deem it not a problem to support that business model is beyond me.

Why would i support scummy practices that are of zero benefit to me as a consumer?

johnny_ultimate

Listen folks: no matter what launcher - Steam or Epic or elsewhere - the Quantic Dream games are awful ****e.

Mr Crispy

SHAUN!!!

J. Marston

JAY-SUN!

JASON!

JAY-SUN!

Retr0gamer

Epic store can keep the quantic dreams games.

Epic store need to sort their store out before I use them as I've had multiple log in attempts from Russian ips. I don't even use the store.

gizmo

There was one other bit of Epic Store news that's relevant to some folks complaints...

Devs can now sell Epic Game Store keys on the Humble Store

Generally speaking, Tim Sweeney also did an interview with PC Gamer where he basically outlined the approach they're taking with regards the games they'll be selling, essentially, they're taking a curated approach that some people are more in favour of.

The Epic Store won't accept 'crappy games,' says Tim Sweeney