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FAILSAFE 00

Last time something similar happened Xbox had to issue an apology and that was only for using the PC footage of the Witcher 3 with an Xbox logo over it. There was a lot of fuss made about it.

www.gamespot.com/amp-articles/microsoft-apologizes-for-confusion-over-1080p-60fp/1100-6426814/

It's highly common for both consoles to use PC gameplay in their trailers or marketing content. However it is a whole different ball game using console competitor footage of a game and doctoring it to make it appear that it is running on that platform.

This is the Xbox conference gameplay trailer that was uploaded to PlayStation's Youtube channel.

I would have no issue if they referenced that the trailer was gameplay footage from Xbox One X. Even a few lines in the description. However there was an effort here to pawn off the trailer as being PS4 gameplay.

It is also misleading PS4 owners who will be expecting the game at XB1X level which isn't possible.

SeantheMan

Evade wrote: »

If you use the . key to go forward frame by frame (or 0.1 second increments, I forget which) the Xbox buttons do show under the PS buttons for a few frames just as they pop up.

I checked multiple times at 3:41 as per the timestamp, and slowed it down to 0.25 and looked at it in 4k ....they DON'T show up.

FAILSAFE 00

SeantheMan wrote: »

I checked multiple times at 3:41 as per the timestamp, and slowed it down to 0.25 and looked at it in 4k ....they DON'T show up.

They do show up.

Here it is zoomed in and slowed down also.

https://youtu.be/YfzccPgitTg

Penn

I think it's fairly obvious the video would have been provided by EA to Sony, which means it would have been EA who photoshopped the button prompts.

Firstly, Playstation aren't just going to lift a video from another developer's conference and throw it on their own site because there could be exclusivity deals regarding marketing etc. The video would have to be provided by the developer with permission to use.

Secondly, given it was the devs who would have scripted & created the gameplay demo for the conference, they're not going to a) try recreate the whole thing exactly with it running on a PS4 or b) show off new footage. The trailer shown at E3 was what they felt was the best representation of the game they could show at this point. They're not going to change that for the PS4 video or try play through it exactly the same again.

EA aren't going to supply Sony with a video that shows XB button prompts or say on the video that it was captured on an Xbox, and Sony aren't going to doctor a video given to them by a developer. The more likely explanation is that EA changed the button prompts on the video and gave it to Sony, maybe because EA are confident that with upscaling to 4K on PS4 Pro, the gameplay will look indistinguishable to the vast, vast majority of consumers (who, given the fact the video was published to Youtube means most people won't be watching that video in 4K anyway).

Evade

SeantheMan wrote: »

I checked multiple times at 3:41 as per the timestamp, and slowed it down to 0.25 and looked at it in 4k ....they DON'T show up.

Use . to go forward frame by frame. The buttons show up then the Xbox buttons show under them for a few frames.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

This is the Xbox conference gameplay trailer that was uploaded to PlayStation's Youtube channel.

Most likely supplied by EA.

Mickeroo

Who cares? Same thing happened with PS4 watchdogs footage being shown on the MS youtube from what I remember and probably happens with loads of other games we don't hear about due to better editing. The game is going to look and run much the same on both platforms, why would they be ****ed recording another trailer that will look the same?

Storm in a tea cup.

kunst nugget

Mickeroo wrote: »

Storm in a tea cup.

But is it a PS or Xbox cup? I hear clouds are rendered better in an Xbox tea cup.

Penn

Actually, just checked the ending of the video and it says "Pre-Alpha Footage. 4K resolution not available on all platforms", which wasn't on the MS video (which did note 4K resolution).

So yeah, controversy over. The video clearly has a disclaimer on it and is clearly from EA as the official video on EA's official Anthem Youtube account has the same disclaimer on it which wasn't on the video shown at MS's E3 conference.

Given the incredible journalism the site DARK-KNIGHT linked to undertook, and the time they obviously spent crafting such writing as "The Sony employee who did the work is obviously terrible at it and you can still see the Xbox One buttons in the background. This is beyond despicable and is fraud. That's not Playstation 4 footage, don't try to pass it off as PlayStation 4 footage.", I'm amazed they didn't pick up on that.

heebusjeebus

Some people love to get riled up over the stupidest of things.
Shur the XBoxX uses checkerboarding so technically it's not pure 4k either.

Let's bang one nail on the head right away: resolution. Anthem is running at 3840x2160 in this demo, but it does so using checkerboard rendering.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-anthem-the-real-deal-for-xbox-one

Retr0gamer

Trailers for movies show stuff that isn't in the final film all the time. Rogue One being a recent example.

It doesn't matter where the footage is taken from. The game is in development stages and can or will change before release. It's not like the footage shown is not going to be mirepresentative if the final product either.

In other words it's a whole load of nonsense over a total non issue.

kunst nugget

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Trailers for movies show stuff that isn't in the final film all the time. Rogue One being a recent example.

It doesn't matter where the footage is taken from. The game is in development stages and can or will change before release. It's not like the footage shown is not going to be mirepresentative if the final product either.

In other words it's a whole load of nonsense over a total non issue.

I blame the SJWs. They've ruined gaming so they must have had a hand in this.

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

I think it's fairly obvious the video would have been provided by EA to Sony, which means it would have been EA who photoshopped the button prompts.

Firstly, Playstation aren't just going to lift a video from another developer's conference and throw it on their own site because there could be exclusivity deals regarding marketing etc. The video would have to be provided by the developer with permission to use.

Secondly, given it was the devs who would have scripted & created the gameplay demo for the conference, they're not going to a) try recreate the whole thing exactly with it running on a PS4 or b) show off new footage. The trailer shown at E3 was what they felt was the best representation of the game they could show at this point. They're not going to change that for the PS4 video or try play through it exactly the same again.

EA aren't going to supply Sony with a video that shows XB button prompts or say on the video that it was captured on an Xbox, and Sony aren't going to doctor a video given to them by a developer. The more likely explanation is that EA changed the button prompts on the video and gave it to Sony, maybe because EA are confident that with upscaling to 4K on PS4 Pro, the gameplay will look indistinguishable to the vast, vast majority of consumers (who, given the fact the video was published to Youtube means most people won't be watching that video in 4K anyway).

A very well thought out post that has me agreeing with many points.

However the buck stops with PlayStation.
They should have placed a few lines in the description or edited the video to say it is gameplay running on Xbox One X hardware.

It's incredibly misleading to take 7 minutes of actual gameplay from a competing console and have it made to look like it's running at that level of performance on PS4.

There is no way that the PS4, PS4 Pro can run the game at that high a level. I wouldn't call it false advertising because it's not the final product however it is incredibly misleading.

FAILSAFE 00

Mickeroo wrote: »

Who cares? Same thing happened with PS4 watchdogs footage being shown on the MS youtube from what I remember and probably happens with loads of other games we don't hear about due to better editing. The game is going to look and run much the same on both platforms, why would they be ****ed recording another trailer that will look the same?

Storm in a tea cup.

No one is suggesting PS4 should have a whole new video. Playstation just need to man up and say that it's Xbox One X footage in the description or edit it into the video.

This is more than your average 30 second trailer. This is 7 minutes of gameplay from the Xbox E3 conference running on much more powerful console hardware.

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

A very well thought out post that has me agreeing with many points.

However the buck stops with PlayStation.
They should have placed a few lines in the description or edited the video to say it is gameplay running on Xbox One X hardware.

It's incredibly misleading to take 7 minutes of actual gameplay from a competing console and have it made to look like it's running at that level of performance on PS4.

There is no way that the PS4, PS4 Pro can run the game at that high a level. I wouldn't call it false advertising because it's not the final product however it is incredibly misleading.

Sony are never going to say it was running on an Xbox One X for the exact same reason Xbox never have or will say footage on their channel for any video was running on a PS4 or Pro. They're given the videos by the developers which includes generic disclaimers. Always, unless explicitly stated otherwise.

The video in question has a disclaimer by the developer themselves (which is on the video on their own official channel) to cover all the bases. It's not misleading, certainly not this far out from release of the game.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

No one is suggesting PS4 should have a whole new video. Playstation just need to man up and say that it's Xbox One X footage in the description or edit it into the video.

This is more than your average 30 second trailer. This is 7 minutes of gameplay from the Xbox E3 conference running on much more powerful console hardware.

And given the proportion of console users who have neither the Pro, XB1X (or rather, may not have the XB1X after release) or a 4K TV, the gameplay footage is going to wildly differ from the video for the majority of people regardless. As I said, the disclaimer on the video is a catch-all to prevent having to make different videos for consoles/console-upgrades and note that the resolution possible may vary. There's no need for Sony to say it was done on an XB1X nor should they be expected to, and similarly so for any time such a situation has occurred in the past where gameplay footage of videos captured on a PS4 or Pro were used in videos shown on Xbox's Youtube channel. The disclaimers at the end of the videos always absolve them of the need to.

FAILSAFE 00

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Some people love to get riled up over the stupidest of things.
Shur the XBoxX uses checkerboarding so technically it's not pure 4k either.



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-anthem-the-real-deal-for-xbox-one

The Xbox One X will have a resolution much closer to 4K and it will also use 4K graphical assets. Along with loads of other graphic effects. The PS4 Pro is much more limited due to its power constraint.

heebusjeebus

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

The Xbox One X will have a resolution much closer to 4K and it will also use 4K graphical assets. Along with loads of other graphic effects. The PS4 Pro is much more limited due to its power constraint.

You don't need 4k assets if checkboarding is used. Would be a waste of storage space.

Penn

Also, just to note regarding my point about disclaimers absolving them of the need to note the footage wasn't captured on that particular console

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Last time something similar happened Xbox had to issue an apology and that was only for using the PC footage of the Witcher 3 with an Xbox logo over it. There was a lot of fuss made about it.

www.gamespot.com/amp-articles/microsoft-apologizes-for-confusion-over-1080p-60fp/1100-6426814/

That video had no such disclaimer, hence the need to apologise.

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

Sony are never going to say it was running on an Xbox One X for the exact same reason Xbox never have or will say footage on their channel for any video was running on a PS4 or Pro. They're given the videos by the developers which includes generic disclaimers. Always, unless explicitly stated otherwise.

The video in question has a disclaimer by the developer themselves (which is on the video on their own official channel) to cover all the bases. It's not misleading, certainly not this far out from release of the game.

It's incredibly misleading.

PS4 button prompts over Xbox One X gameplay. Come on, with no message to say it was XB1X gameplay.

When Xbox used PC footage of The Witcher 3 on their YouTube channel every gaming news outlet ran the story and Xbox issued an apology.

Lets face it. If Xbox used 7 minutes of PS4 Pro gameplay from a Playstation E3 conference, edited Xbox prompts on it and uploaded it to their channel that would be big news.

FAILSAFE 00

heebusjeebus wrote: »

You don't need 4k assets if checkboarding is used. Would be a waste of storage space.

Unfortunately you don't know what you are talking about.

Retr0gamer

I think people are getting a bit sensitive about this. Most game trailers are filmed on pc no matter if they are exclusive or not. The trailer is representative of the current build of the game. Doesn't matter what machine they used to record it from unless they specifically say this is from a playstation system.

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

It's incredibly misleading.

PS4 button prompts over Xbox One X gameplay. Come on, with no message to say it was XB1X gameplay.

When Xbox used PC footage of The Witcher 3 on their YouTube channel every gaming news outlet ran the story and Xbox issued an apology.

Lets face it. If Xbox used 7 minutes of PS4 Pro gameplay from a Playstation E3 conference, edited Xbox prompts on it and uploaded it to their channel that would be big news.

Again, the two big differences are that a) the video on the PS channel has a disclaimer which the Witcher 3 video at the time did not have, and b) PS didn't use the video from the Xbox conference, they would have had to have been given that video from EA themselves (which is evident by the disclaimer on the PS and official Anthem channel being the exact same which is different to the ending of the video at the end of the Xbox conference) and EA would have been responsible for editing the button prompts (as PS wouldn't have accepted it with showing Xbox buttons).

PS didn't upload the video Xbox showed at E3. They uploaded a different video given to them by EA and which has a disclaimer about resolution.

FAILSAFE 00

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think people are getting a bit sensitive about this. Most game trailers are filmed on pc no matter if they are exclusive or not. The trailer is representative of the current build of the game. Doesn't matter what machine they used to record it from unless they specifically say this is from a playstation system.

It's almost standard practice to use PC footage. No issue with that at all. PC is not a competitor to console.

Taking console competitor gameplay and having it look like it is running at that high a level on PS4 isn't standard practice.

This was recorded straight from XB1X console and is 7 minute long gameplay from the Xbox conference.

Evade

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

It's almost standard practice to use PC footage. No issue with that at all. PC is not a competitor to console.

Taking console competitor gameplay and having it look like it is running at that high a level on PS4 isn't standard practice.

This is pretty contradictory, how is it only wrong if it's another console?

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

Again, the two big differences are that a) the video on the PS channel has a disclaimer which the Witcher 3 video at the time did not have, and b) PS didn't use the video from the Xbox conference, they would have had to have been given that video from EA themselves (which is evident by the disclaimer on the PS and official Anthem channel being the exact same which is different to the ending of the video at the end of the Xbox conference) and EA would have been responsible for editing the button prompts (as PS wouldn't have accepted it with showing Xbox buttons).

PS didn't upload the video Xbox showed at E3. They uploaded a different video given to them by EA and which has a disclaimer about resolution.

It is the exact same video. It just has been edited with PS4 button prompts and a disclaimer.

That disclaimer only says 4K resolution not available on all platforms. No surprises there or a reason why Playstation should show this footage without stating that it is XB1X gameplay or that it isn't even Playstation footage at all.

The Xbox One OG and PS4 OG of course will not be 4K.

FAILSAFE 00

Evade wrote: »

This is pretty contradictory, how is it only wrong if it's another console?

Because they are not competitors.

The PC does not compete with either console.

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

It is the exact same video. It just has been edited with PS4 button prompts and a disclaimer.

That disclaimer only says 4K resolution not available on all platforms. No surprises there or a reason why Playstation should show this footage without stating that it is XB1X gameplay or that it isn't even Playstation footage at all.

The Xbox One OG and PS4 OG of course will not be 4K.

Yes, edited by EA. The video would have been provided to Sony by EA.

There's no reason why Sony should say it was from XB1X gameplay. Why would they? There's a clear disclaimer on the video. The video doesn't say it will be in 4K on Pro, it specifically says the video is a pre-Alpha build and 4K resolution is not available on all platforms. Doesn't say it's available on Pro. It's a generic disclaimer by the devs which essentially means (final product may vary).

Seriously, it's incredible that anyone considers this even a slight issue worth mentioning.

Digital Solitude

Can I be PM'd when this dies so I can refollow the thread? Cheers

Evade

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Because they are not competitors.

The PC does not compete with either console.

But if your argument is that's it's false advertising because it won't look that good* on Playstation it doesn't matter if it's an XBoneX or a PC.


*It's pre-alpha, it won't look like that.

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

Yes, edited by EA. The video would have been provided to Sony by EA.

There's no reason why Sony should say it was from XB1X gameplay. Why would they? There's a clear disclaimer on the video. The video doesn't say it will be in 4K on Pro, it specifically says the video is a pre-Alpha build and 4K resolution is not available on all platforms. Doesn't say it's available on Pro. It's a generic disclaimer by the devs which essentially means (final product may vary).

Seriously, it's incredible that anyone considers this even a slight issue worth mentioning.

It's 7 minutes of gameplay from the Xbox E3 conference running on the Xbox One X.

I am very surprised you cannot see the issue. It's a simple few lines to either state it's XB1X gameplay or it isn't PS4 gameplay.

It's incredibly dishonest of Playstation trying to pawn off the gameplay as PS4 footage. The buck stops with them. It is their channel.

I think its a compliment that Playstation used Xbox One X footage however they should just say it's XB1X. No one would have cared if they had of been honest about it.

FAILSAFE 00

Evade wrote: »

But if your argument is that's it's false advertising because it won't look that good* on Playstation it doesn't matter if it's an XBoneX or a PC.


*It's pre-alpha, it won't look like that.

It's not my argument.

I have already pointed out in an earlier post that it isn't false advertising but it is incredibly misleading.

It's pre-alpha running on the Xbox One X. This is rare to see these days. Meaning if it's that good already at pre alpha imagine what it will be liked when it's optimised.