Secondary school application query

angeldaisy

Sorry don't really know how to phrase this question.
I had an interesting chat with another mum today, we were discussing secondary schools and she asked if I had thought of where I was going to send my son (its a long way off yet - thankfully). The system here is that you pick the schools on a list of 1-10 and wait and see if you get accepted by any.
One of the schools would be handy for me, near where we live, where my oh works and near to the hospital (my son has a condition which requires hospital treatment - usually in an emergency), however this school has a reputation for being very difficult to get in and we wouldn't have right of entry. She mentioned that I should talk to them about the need for my son to be educated somewhere close to a hospital and this might help my application.
Anyone had any experience with anything like this before

Orion

What do you mean you pick them on a list and wait to see if any accept you? Secondary schools don't divvy up students. Private schools can refuse you but every area has a school that must accept you if you're in the catchment area.

Whereabouts are you?

angeldaisy

Orion wrote: »

What do you mean you pick them on a list and wait to see if any accept you? Secondary schools don't divvy up students. Private schools can refuse you but every area has a school that must accept you if you're in the catchment area.

Whereabouts are you?

In Limerick there is currently a Common Application System in place, like a CAO system, basically it appears that the schools can pick and choose who they want to attend. Unfortunately it seems to be a very stressful process to go through. Hopefully it will be changed shortly as catchment areas do not appear to apply.

Lola92

I have heard about this system in Limerick before ( meant to reply yesterday in fact). As far as I know it is pot luck really as to where you might end up. I have heard donations at fundraisers etc. can do wonders though :rolleyes: Typical of Ireland really.

angeldaisy

Lola92 wrote: »

I have heard about this system in Limerick before ( meant to reply yesterday in fact). As far as I know it is pot luck really as to where you might end up. I have heard donations at fundraisers etc. can do wonders though :rolleyes: Typical of Ireland really.

Well I certainly won't be going down the 'donations' route, I would sooner put the money towards private education. Hopefully things will change:rolleyes::rolleyes:

StillWaters

I'm not familiar with the limerick system, but normally on applications for Secondary School there is a box to write about exceptional circumstances. I would imagine you would have a strong case for this school if it is the one nearest the hospital, and if your child suffers fom an illness that requires proximity to same.

RB94

I'm familiar with the system in Limerick as I'm in 5th year in Ardscoil Rís. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're talking about Crescent Comprehensive? Basically, if you are refused your number 1 choice on the Common Application System it's unlikely you'll get an offer from the other schools as anyone who put another school as number 1 will have priority over someone who put it as number 2,3 etc.

If you live near enough to a school, it's likely that you'll be in their catchment area. It would be no harm to ring the school in question and find out the boundary of their catchment area.

I do think that when the time comes, setting up a meeting with the principal and explaining the situation will help a lot. All the secondary schools say that they randomly choose the students from those who picked it as number 1 but it's commonly thought that this is untrue in some cases.

LegacyUser

Maybe put St Clements ( boys ) , laurel hill or scoil carmel (girls) as your number two .. If you look at the km in the difference between CCC and St C it is tiny .. Dont put all your eggs in the same basket .. likewise maybe you should consider CBS just inside the city as a choice aswell .. I assume you live in the catchment area as you talk about the need to be so close to the hospital so perhaps contact local TD aswell to get him onside .

Shelli2

Go to your local TD and explain the situation, I had similar problem with my son and primary schools. We didn't get into any of our chosen schools, and our number one choice claimed to never had received our application at all. One polite email to our local TD, and following a quick conversation with his 'Education Officer', low and behold we had a place in our first choice.....a school which takes only 9 children each year and with a waiting list of minimum 20 (even though they said we hadn't even applied!)

Imhof Tank

Shelli2 wrote: »

Go to your local TD and explain the situation, I had similar problem with my son and primary schools. We didn't get into any of our chosen schools, and our number one choice claimed to never had received our application at all. One polite email to our local TD, and following a quick conversation with his 'Education Officer', low and behold we had a place in our first choice.....a school which takes only 9 children each year and with a waiting list of minimum 20 (even though they said we hadn't even applied!)

What a really great little country.

Not having a go at you Shelli, but for you to have to work the system this way is just .......I dont know.

OK, so you were in a position to put together a polite email and hey presto - problem solved - and Id say you will find it hard not to vote for this guy next time round?

Kids with parents not set up in this way - well they can just rot obviously, just tell them their applications were never received like they told you until you went to the parish pump TD.

I suppose the same thing happens with medical cards and suchlike.

meg3178

angeldaisy wrote: »

Sorry don't really know how to phrase this question.
I had an interesting chat with another mum today, we were discussing secondary schools and she asked if I had thought of where I was going to send my son (its a long way off yet - thankfully). The system here is that you pick the schools on a list of 1-10 and wait and see if you get accepted by any.
One of the schools would be handy for me, near where we live, where my oh works and near to the hospital (my son has a condition which requires hospital treatment - usually in an emergency), however this school has a reputation for being very difficult to get in and we wouldn't have right of entry. She mentioned that I should talk to them about the need for my son to be educated somewhere close to a hospital and this might help my application.
Anyone had any experience with anything like this before

I have a friend who was in a similar situation last year. They were advised before applying, to have a meeting with the principal of the school they were interested in, taking with them relevant paperwork, letter from the doctors etc, which would explain their reasons for needing to be so close to the hospital. The principal was very helpful. They submitted copies of the documents with their application when they applied and were successful.

Shelli2

]

What a really great little country

Not really, it's a shambles IMO

Not having a go at you Shelli, but for you to have to work the system this way is just .......I dont know.

Exactly....but if I didn't I honestly don't know what the alternative would have been. As it stood my son had no place in any school, even though I applied to the 3 school when he was 3 months old! I did not "work" any system though, I asked for help and received it.

OK, so you were in a position to put together a polite email and hey presto - problem solved - and Id say you will find it hard not to vote for this guy next time round?

Everyone is in the same position, that's what they are there for, to help members of the public. And, for the record, I did not vote for said politician, as I didn't agree with his parties policies, although he himself is very good in the local area.

Kids with parents not set up in this way - well they can just rot obviously, just tell them their applications were never received like they told you until you went to the parish pump TD.

Every parent has the option of asking for help. Also, an important point to note, I live in North Dublin, not a small rural village, and had never had contact with the local TD before. (ie. he's not some family friend or anything)

I suppose the same thing happens with medical cards and suchlike

I sincerely hope not, as there are strict rules in place with benefits etc. Schools on the other hand, seem to be able to construct their own enrolment policies, which leads to problems like the OPs.

Imhof Tank

Shelli2 wrote: »

]
Not really, it's a shambles IMO


Exactly....but if I didn't I honestly don't know what the alternative would have been. As it stood my son had no place in any school, even though I applied to the 3 school when he was 3 months old! I did not "work" any system though, I asked for help and received it.


Everyone is in the same position, that's what they are there for, to help members of the public. And, for the record, I did not vote for said politician, as I didn't agree with his parties policies, although he himself is very good in the local area.


Every parent has the option of asking for help. Also, an important point to note, I live in North Dublin, not a small rural village, and had never had contact with the local TD before. (ie. he's not some family friend or anything)


I sincerely hope not, as there are strict rules in place with benefits etc. Schools on the other hand, seem to be able to construct their own enrolment policies, which leads to problems like the OPs.

Shelli, I was actually going for irony with the great little country remark.

I wouldnt agree that every one is in the same position. Do you think every TD is as accessable to and / or interested in each of their constituents equally? Stories like yours are exactly what keeps the clientelist system going.

Parish Pump politicians will tell you "we're here to help people" ie get them medical cards, council houses, get into the school of their choice. Their input should not be necessary at all if the system were functioning fairly.

Shelli2

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Their input should not be necessary at all if the system were functioning fairly.

I completely agree, it should not be necessary at all, but with the schools 'selection' system in this country, and how it varies greatly from school to school, sometimes asking for their input is the only option a parent has.

Also, when I said everyone is in the same position, I meant that everyone can ask for help if they need it.

Imhof Tank

Shelli2 wrote: »

I completely agree, it should not be necessary at all, but with the schools 'selection' system in this country, and how it varies greatly from school to school, sometimes asking for their input is the only option a parent has.

Also, when I said everyone is in the same position, I meant that everyone can ask for help if they need it.

OK, so you ask for their input, everyone can do that in theory - but the whole thing then depends on how the local TD responds to you, and unfortunately I would not be confident that everyone will get equal treatment, which makes it arbitrary.

By way of extreme example - do you think a young professional atriculate parent who probably knows and can quote from Department of Education policies on school selection, is sure to get the same response from the TD than a minority parent? Say traveller or asylum seeker parents?

Shelli2

So your saying we shouldn't ask our local TDs for help and input, the whole reason they are there, just in case someone else may or may not be given the same treatment by the same or a different TD?

PseudoFamous

Shelli2 wrote: »

a school which takes only 9 children each year and with a waiting list of minimum 20

offtopic, but you're saying that there's a school in an area densely populated enough to warrant a CAS system, that has less than 80 pupils? That's outrageous, that school should either have been amalgamated into another or expanded, what a ridiculous waste of teaching resources.

Imhof Tank

Shelli2 wrote: »

So your saying we shouldn't ask our local TDs for help and input, the whole reason they are there, just in case someone else may or may not be given the same treatment by the same or a different TD?

Not at all - go ahead and work the system to the max. I think you know this anyway.

I am trying to make a point about the corupt system.

Shelli2

PseudoFamous wrote: »

offtopic, but you're saying that there's a school in an area densely populated enough to warrant a CAS system, that has less than 80 pupils? That's outrageous, that school should either have been amalgamated into another or expanded, what a ridiculous waste of teaching resources.

It's a Church of Ireland School, which raises most of it's own funding, and has 3 teachers and 3 classrooms. Don't think its a waste. There are two Educate Together schools, which are stretched to their limits, and the only other options in the area are Catholic Schools. If anything it should be given more funding in order to expand.

rainbowtrout

Orion wrote: »

What do you mean you pick them on a list and wait to see if any accept you? Secondary schools don't divvy up students. Private schools can refuse you but every area has a school that must accept you if you're in the catchment area.

Whereabouts are you?

Limerick City schools follow their own rules unfortunately. When I was in secondary school there, there were plenty of kids coming in from Co. Limk, Clare, Tipp well outside any schools catchment area and plenty of city children not being offered any place every year. The solution? Those children were told, repeat sixth class and re-apply next year. There were cases of students not being offered a school two years running. I started secondary school in 1991. 2000 students from the city applied to secondary school, and 200 of those were left without a place. Absolutely disgraceful stuff.

Despite the common application system, certain schools still held interviews and amazingly there were some schools who never took students from certain areas of town, or from certain socio-economic categories. The primary school I went to and area I lived in pretty much guaranteed entry to your first choice school in most cases. Remember my cousin applying to send her daughter to a certain girls secondary school in town and being refused even though all students from my school/area always got in. The only reason she could come up with was that she was a single parent. She was probably right.


But I digress, assuming Crescent Comp is the school the OP is talking about, they tended to take in students from the local primary feeder schools, siblings of students already in the school, students from the local catchment area and then the few places that were left were a free for all. It can't do any harm for her to call into the principal and state her case and see what the story is.

rainbowtrout

angeldaisy wrote: »

In Limerick there is currently a Common Application System in place, like a CAO system, basically it appears that the schools can pick and choose who they want to attend. Unfortunately it seems to be a very stressful process to go through. Hopefully it will be changed shortly as catchment areas do not appear to apply.

The reason it was brought in about 20 years ago was that each of the schools had their own entrance exam, so if you were applying to five different schools your son/daughter sat five different entrance exams. Depending on how you got on, you might receive offers from all five schools, but another child might receive none. All schools were cherry picking the best students, so the common application system was introduced to alleviate the problem and ensure that all students were offered a place. While it relieves the stress of having to sit multiple entrance exams on the student, I don't think it has changed the demographic of students in any of the schools wildly. And some students still have trouble getting a place.

thesimpsons

the common application system in limerick was brought about in 2005 for the first time. part of its remit was to ensure all pupils in primary schools in the region got a place offered for secondary school. what the system did do is to make it harder for a pupil to get into any school which was their 2nd or 3rd or subsequent choice. unlike the CAO system where if you don't have the points for your first choice course, you still have high expectancy of getting your next choice course, with the Limerick system, if you don't get first choice, you options are usually way down the list, and would usually be for a school way out of your location or expectations. The current system now means that there are kids travelling back and forth across the city/county to schools, bypassing more local ones, to ensure they can avail of their right of entry rather than chancing that more local school might take them. If you don't get a place in your first choice school, chances are you won't get your 2nd/3rd/4th choice either as they will already be full from the first choices of everyone else. All schools have their own enrolment policies and once they adhere to their policy, there is no argument. Section 29 Appeals to the Dept of Education can be taken but are notoriously difficult to win. Complaining to TDs, calling in old favours, etc should have absolutely no place if the school has adhered to their policy.

rainbowtrout

thesimpsons wrote: »

the common application system in limerick was brought about in 2005 for the first time.

2005? I had to go through that system in 1991

thesimpsons

dunno about 1991 but the current format is definitely 2005 cos 2004 was the year over 80 kids got no places at all. following a host of section 29 Appeals (none of which won) some schools relented and found places where none previously existed, all the students eventually got secondary places. The next year the current system came in place.