Jeff Winter

Jelle1880

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Staunch my arse he aligned himself to us to make money on the after dinner circuit he even made what could be construed as racist comments about our own player not the sort of fan we need thankyou

Eh ?
That's the first I've heard of that.

He didn't just align himself with us, he's been to Ibrox and to away games on numerous occasions.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Staunch my arse he aligned himself to us to make money on the after dinner circuit he even made what could be construed as racist comments about our own player not the sort of fan we need thankyou

Eh ?
That's the first I've heard of that.

He didn't just align himself with us, he's been to Ibrox and to away games on numerous occasions.

So have plenty of others it doesn't make them staunch

Look through the bag issues of his blog you will find it

DrumSteve

What I can't figure out is what people were doing on Jeff Winter's website.

Sir Gallagher

DrumSteve wrote: »

What I can't figure out is what people were doing on Jeff Winter's website.

Somebody googled, "alter boy facial hair" and it popped up.

tommyhaas

Jelle1880 wrote: »

For disliking Catholicism ? :eek:

.

The initial comment I responded to I took as the poster saying he disliked Celtic based on the religion of their fans, as oppose to disliking Catholicism. I asked him specifically if that was what he was saying as oppose to simply accusing him of sectarianism
It was the following poster that then jumped on this an agreed (that he disliked Celtic because of the religion of the fans). That’s what I referred to as sectarian. I specifically didn’t do so in my first reply to the comment as I could see that it was possible that what had been said could have been misconstrued

Dempsey

CSF wrote: »

I agree about the Catholicism part, and it being one of my primary reasons for disliking Celtic

Thank you for your sectarian outlook on Celtic. Do you dislike Ireland too?

Surprised at the people that thanked your post, expected better from them.

bobbysands81

Dempsey wrote: »

Thank you for your sectarian outlook on Celtic. Do you dislike Ireland too?

Surprised at the people that thanked your post, expected better from them.

What annoys me is that folk make such comments but disappear when it comes to debating them. As their assertions are based on false and ignorant premises their argument wouldn't have a hope in hell in standing up... therefore they can't hang around and debate as they'd be fllored if they did.

Even a staunch Rangers fan in BBE disagrees in what they're saying.

Finally, and I say this as a person with not an ounce of interest in religion, people often think that Celtic might be sectarian because they're deemed to be pro-Catholic or Rangers as they're pro-Protestant, they're wrong. Sectarianism would be when a Rangers fan would be against another religion, not when he's in favour of Protestantism.

Blatter

Never realised Jeff Winter was such a bigoted nutjob.

Jelle1880

bobbysands81 wrote: »

What annoys me is that folk make such comments but disappear when it comes to debating them. As their assertions are based on false and ignorant premises their argument wouldn't have a hope in hell in standing up... therefore they can't hang around and debate as they'd be fllored if they did.

Even a staunch Rangers fan in BBE disagrees in what they're saying.

Finally, and I say this as a person with not an ounce of interest in religion, people often think that Celtic might be sectarian because they're deemed to be pro-Catholic or Rangers as they're pro-Protestant, they're wrong. Sectarianism would be when a Rangers fan would be against another religion, not when he's in favour of Protestantism.

I don't think that's a correct way to look at sectarianism.

Sectarianism imo is when you deem other people to be lesser than you, because of their religion (or, like in Northern Ireland, Iraq,... it leads to violence against a specific group of people, based on religion).

Disliking religion is not sectarian, not even when it's one specific religion.

The reason I think this is was due to a hack was the fact that it took a while to come out.
He has a rather large amount of readers, has posted several posts since then so surely it should have been picked up sooner ?

Blatter

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I don't think that's a correct way to look at sectarianism.

Sectarianism imo is when you deem other people to be lesser than you, because of their religion (or, like in Northern Ireland, Iraq,... it leads to violence against a specific group of people, based on religion).

Disliking religion is not sectarian, not even when it's one specific religion.

Sectarianism is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, class, regional or factions of a political movement.

That's the wiki definition.

ColeTrain

CSF wrote: »

I agree about the Catholicism part, and it being one of my primary reasons for disliking Celtic

I'm a Celtic supporter and an atheist. I'd imagine plenty more are too, as well as Protestant, Muslim etc. A good chunk of the support may be church going Catholics but I'm not sure and I don't think it matters. The club has always been inclusive.

dreamers75 wrote: »

Your last point negates your 1st point.

I detest Glasgow Celtic and everyone of their "Irish" fans. They are a scum that attach themselves to football and somehow think they are righteous.

Irish roots Fcuk off....wait till your team plays them and then see how they view "irish" roots.

Disgusting club living off the fact they are Catholic.

Pathetic post. Probably the worst I've seen on this forum.

bobbysands81

Celtic have reported Jeff Winter's blog -

https://twitter.com/#!/polishturnsti...56376208166912

#Celtic are taking legal advice and have made a complaint to the police about a blog, which appeared yesterday - no other comment. Cheers.

Dempsey

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Celtic have reported Jeff Winter's blog -

https://twitter.com/#!/polishturnsti...56376208166912

#Celtic are taking legal advice and have made a complaint to the police about a blog, which appeared yesterday - no other comment. Cheers.

Proper order!

bobbysands81

Here's other stuff that Jeff Winter has blogged about in the past. As you can see his comments were not a one-off, nor was his account hacked.

http://jeffwinterbigot.blogspot.com

Some sick filth in there.

The_Kew_Tour

I ain't the biggest Celtic fan, but Jeff Winter shows what sort of a sad, stupid and brainless person that he is.

and he was a Ref!!!!

PARKHEAD67

dreamers75 wrote: »

Your last point negates your 1st point.

I detest Glasgow Celtic and everyone of their "Irish" fans. They are a scum that attach themselves to football and somehow think they are righteous.

Irish roots Fcuk off....wait till your team plays them and then see how they view "irish" roots.

Disgusting club living off the fact they are Catholic.

Oh deary me. Proper fruitcake material.:rolleyes:

carlcon

Dempsey wrote: »

Thank you for your sectarian outlook on Celtic. Do you dislike Ireland too?

Surprised at the people that thanked your post, expected better from them.

I was one of 2 people who thanked that post, so I'll take at least half of that was aimed at me.

It's not sectarian at all, because the guy in question also feels the same way about religion in general - which is why I defended him.

The line "I agree about the Catholicism part, and it being one of my primary reasons for disliking Celtic" on it's own could seem dodgy if he didn't also say "I don't feel religion has any place in football." - that completely clears him of any sectarianism.

This whole conversation has gone outside the realms of football, so we have to think outside the realms of football when discussing it. There are significantly more reasons to dislike the Catholic church than there are to like it. Replace "the Catholic church" with "Christianity" or even less specifically "religion", and you've got 3 very acceptable statements.

If I was brought up in a society where I had idiots with gold Muslim chains around their necks supporting anti-British and anti-Christianity sentiments towards Celtic, who "just so happened" to appear with their jerseys at pretty much every riot that happened in my country, and kept sectarianism alive, I would hate those people too.

In this instance... the people in my society just so happen to be Catholic... just so happen to be Celtic fans... and that's why I can't stand "those" Celtic fans.
Nobody is saying "all Celtic fans" - but it's a very large % of them that fit into this. It's literally impossible to go to a bar in Ireland during a Celtic game without being surrounded by them, so I avoid them and everything to do with the club in this country for that very reason.

We can bury our heads in the sand and pretend that the Celtic-Rangers rivalry has nothing to do with religion or politics, but we'd be lying. It's entirely to do with those things... and for that reason, I think anyone who hates either side while supporting the other is an idiot (unless you have a friendly rivalry with the opposition and only dislike them because they're fellow title challengers- which is perfectly fine).

--

But regardless of any of this; Jeff Winter is obviously a moron - I'm absolutely not defending him. It's the poster who has been called a sectarian several times when he clearly isn't that I'm defending.

Dempsey

carlcon wrote: »

I was one of 2 people who thanked that post, so I'll take at least half of that was aimed at me.

It's not sectarian at all, because the guy in question also feels the same way about religion in general - which is why I defended him.

I stopped reading right there, its still sectarian unless you want to go redefining what is sectarian.

"Its ok because he's an atheist" FFS!

carlcon

Dempsey wrote: »

I stopped reading right there, its still sectarian unless you want to go redefining what is sectarian.

"Its ok because he's an atheist" FFS!

In order for it to be sectarianism, you need to show bigotry or hatred towards someone in a sub-section of the same group. So no... it's not redefining the word at all, it's using the definition in its broadest meaning.

It's about "excessive devotion to a particular sect" - it could be religion, politics, or whatever. Dismissing religion is not in any way covered there. Being an atheist isn't being part of a sect... if anything, it's the opposite.

Jelle1880

carlcon wrote: »

In order for it to be sectarianism, you need to show bigotry or hatred towards someone in a sub-section of the same group. So no... it's not redefining the word at all, it's using the definition in its broadest meaning.

It's about "excessive devotion to a particular sect" - it could be religion, politics, or whatever. Dismissing religion is not in any way covered there. Being an atheist isn't being part of a sect... if anything, it's the opposite.

Have to agree with this, if you want to claim that sectarianism simply equals disdain or a hatred for religion then you're crossing the line, as you're basically calling most atheists sectarian.

edit: Can someone explain to me why Celtic are getting involved ?
Surely comments directed to the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope have nothing to do with the all-inclusive club that Celtic is ?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Celtic have reported Jeff Winter's blog -

https://twitter.com/#!/polishturnsti...56376208166912

#Celtic are taking legal advice and have made a complaint to the police about a blog, which appeared yesterday - no other comment. Cheers.

Glad. To hear it Bobby the man is a disgrace and I can tell yes there will be morons in our support who thrive on his bile but talking to a lot of Bears today they are disgusted by him

Sir Gallagher

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Here's other stuff that Jeff Winter has blogged about in the past. As you can see his comments were not a one-off, nor was his account hacked.

http://jeffwinterbigot.blogspot.com

Some sick filth in there.

Pretty hate filled inividual by the looks of things. The whole fixation on abuse in the catholic church is bizarre. He must have been interfered with as a child himself, thats not meant as a joke btw, just seems that he's very eager to bring up a subject which has no relevance to Celtic whatsoever. By his reasoning, all Irish, Spanish and Italian clubs condone peadophilia strange stuff.

bobbysands81

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Have to agree with this, if you want to claim that sectarianism simply equals disdain or a hatred for religion then you're crossing the line, as you're basically calling most atheists sectarian.

edit: Can someone explain to me why Celtic are getting involved ?
Surely comments directed to the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope have nothing to do with the all-inclusive club that Celtic is ?

It's quite simple why Celtic are getting involved, Winter attacks the club with his comments - they're f&*Kin disgusting, you obviously didn't read them but have still formulated an opinion just to score points.

Winter says:

"Celtic are top of the league!!! Now the football implications are obvious, but what does it mean for the altar boys? Do they get abused in celebration? Would it gave(sic) been worse in the anger of defeat? Or would they just get abused anyway?"

He's linking Celtic winning matches with child abuse, Celtic are stepping in to protect their 'brand' from vile and disgusting insinuations from a man that really should know better.

If you can't see why Celtic would object to those comments then I'm afraid you're as blinkered as Jeff Winter.

bobbysands81

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Have to agree with this, if you want to claim that sectarianism simply equals disdain or a hatred for religion then you're crossing the line, as you're basically calling most atheists sectarian.

edit: Can someone explain to me why Celtic are getting involved ?
Surely comments directed to the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope have nothing to do with the all-inclusive club that Celtic is ?

Also...

So if Celtic take a stand against racists would you also claim that they're not being inclusive?

Your logic is so skewed! You can be 'pro-something' and still be inclusive. It's when your 'anti-something' that you lose that inclusiveness. A little analogy (for illustrative reasons only)... There is nothing wrong with Rangers being pro-Protestant, Rangers being pro-Protestant doesn't mean that they're not being inclusive, it's when they start excluding folk (let's say Catholics) that they lose that inclusivity.

Dempsey

carlcon wrote: »

In order for it to be sectarianism, you need to show bigotry or hatred towards someone in a sub-section of the same group. So no... it's not redefining the word at all, it's using the definition in its broadest meaning.

Its still a sectarian outlook no matter what way you try to spin it and you are only trying to defend it because you happen to dislike Celtic because of same reason, the "catholic part"

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Have to agree with this, if you want to claim that sectarianism simply equals disdain or a hatred for religion then you're crossing the line, as you're basically calling most atheists sectarian.

No, most atheists come across as bigots. :P

We are talking about people hating Celtic because of the "Catholic part".

carlcon

Dempsey wrote: »

Its still a sectarian outlook no matter what way you try to spin it and you are only trying to defend it because you happen to dislike Celtic because of same reason, the "catholic part"



No, most atheists come across as bigots. :P

We are talking about people hating Celtic because of the "Catholic part".

You're completely misrepresenting the meaning of sectarianism, while also ignoring the vital difference between "hating Catholics" and thinking "any religion in football is wrong".

I couldn't care less whether they're wearing a cross around their necks or a taqiyah on their heads... and I certainly don't care about their views on Irish/British politics... but if they're doing so while ridiculing or hating others for their views, they're idiots... plain and simple. Saying that is 100% not sectarian - that's an act of hating sectarianism.

Sectarianism comes into it when you look at the facts and acknowledge that there's no coincidence that the vast vast majority of Celtic fans in Ireland are either Republicans, Catholics, or both. You can't call someone sectarian for disliking that fact, or merely pointing it out.

In a country were religion is dying out and Republicanism is in a minority, you can't ignore the very obvious correlation between those 2 things and Celtic fandom.

Dempsey

carlcon wrote: »

You're completely misrepresenting the meaning of sectarianism, while also ignoring the vital difference between "hating Catholics" and thinking "any religion in football is wrong".

CSF dislikes Celtic because of the "catholic part". You thanked that post.

carlcon

I'm done repeating myself after this post. If CSF said he hated the Catholic part of Celtic, but was OK with the Protestant part of Rangers, I'd accept the point that he's sectarian and morally wrong. But he didn't do that, so I won't. If he comes back and does that, I'll rescind all support I gave him.

I 100% agree with him that the Catholic part of Celtic is shameful. That's why I "thanked" his post.

I also believe that any religious affiliation with any other club is equally shameful. And CSF showed no sign that he believed it was OK for any other club either... and that's why it was wrong for people to be throwing words like sectarian around.

And it's as simple as that. If you dislike Rangers because you just happen to be a Celtic fan and because they're your title challengers, then that's 100% fine and healthy for the game. But if anyone does so with even the slightest reason of religion, politics, nationalism, or anything like that... then they're the sectarians, not people who want to exclude religion from their lives entirely.

Dempsey

So what your saying if that its ok for an atheist to make that remark but not, e.g., a Rangers supporting protestant or even a Celtic supporting muslim?! LOL!

Atheists still have to deal with religious beliefs of others just like religious people have to tolerate their beliefs and disliking a club because of the "catholic part" is sectarian. It doesnt matter a jot what his opinion of Rangers or any religious element of their club is. You have a fúcked up idea of what sectarianism is.

Blatter

Brian McNally of The Mirror:

Police probe into Jeff Winter website confirmed by STV & BBC Scotland tonight after complaint from #Celtic FC.

TheBuilder

They guy should be locked up, he racially abused Mo Edu last year in a blog as well.

CSF

So just to clarify, it is sectarian to despise a religion because you think it preaches evil? If this is the case, then I'm ok with that.

the realpigiron

http://soccerspeaker.com/speaker.php?page=13

He's an after dinner soccer speaker. We should invite him to Parkhead for a gig sometime and see if he is as outspoken.:)

bobbysands81

TheBuilder wrote: »

They guy should be locked up, he racially abused Mo Edu last year in a blog as well.

Your oul fella did such a good job with you fellas I just refuse to believe you're Rangers fans!

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You're oul fella did such a good job with you fellas I just refuse to believe you're Rangers fans!

HaHa true blues to the core Bobby

Broxi_Bear_Eire

CSF wrote: »

So just to clarify, it is sectarian to despise a religion because you think it preaches evil? If this is the case, then I'm ok with that.

No but if you spout hatred at people of said religion that can be seen as sectarian.

Frankly I don't care what religion anyone is or if they have no beliefs at all. I don't feel the need to shove my religion down peoples throats as I do try and follow a christian way of living I might not be very good at it but I try.

CSF

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

No but if you spout hatred at people of said religion that can be seen as sectarian.

Yes, but you're talking to me here, not Jeff Winters.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

CSF wrote: »

Yes, but you're talking to me here, not Jeff Winters.

Oh I wasn't having a dig at you mate when I answered you I sort of had a moment of rambling what you do is your business

bobbysands81

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

No but if you spout hatred at people of said religion that can be seen as sectarian.

Frankly I don't care what religion anyone is or if they have no beliefs at all. I don't feel the need to shove my religion down peoples throats as I do try and follow a christian way of living I might not be very good at it but I try.

Why is it that the people in the know on this thread (the Celtic and Rangers fans) are talking far more sense than non Celtic/Rangers fans?

KeithAFC

ColeTrain wrote: »

I'm a Celtic supporter and an atheist. I'd imagine plenty more are too, as well as Protestant, Muslim etc. A good chunk of the support may be church going Catholics but I'm not sure and I don't think it matters. The club has always been inclusive.



Pathetic post. Probably the worst I've seen on this forum.

I would say the majority of supporters at Celtic park aren't church going. But they are most likely Republican. Same as Rangers supporters. Not church going but most likely look at Unionism favourably or Loyalism.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

KeithAFC wrote: »

ColeTrain wrote: »

I'm a Celtic supporter and an atheist. I'd imagine plenty more are too, as well as Protestant, Muslim etc. A good chunk of the support may be church going Catholics but I'm not sure and I don't think it matters. The club has always been inclusive.



Pathetic post. Probably the worst I've seen on this forum.

I would say the majority of supporters at Celtic park aren't church going. But they are most likely Republican. Same as Rangers supporters. Not church going but most likely look at Unionism favourably or Loyalism.

My belief is while you may get most shouting about republicanism or loyalist most don't really have anything more than a vague idea they don't know all the in's and outs

bobbysands81

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

My belief is while you may get most shouting about republicanism or loyalist most don't really have anything more than a vague idea they don't know all the in's and outs

I thought it was just me struggling with the site but looks like you are too buddy.

KeithAFC

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

My belief is while you may get most shouting about republicanism or loyalist most don't really have anything more than a vague idea they don't know all the in's and outs

Yes. Sadly most people in Glasgow don't have a clue from both sides in terms of the politics.

I know glasgow lads who support celtic and rangers, celtic mostly.

They haven't a clue about the history of Ireland etc but sing "rebel" songs. Does that make them Republicans? (as a poster above has said)

No,of course not, just ignorant.

KeithAFC

rarnes1 wrote: »

I know glasgow lads who support celtic and rangers, celtic mostly.

They haven't a clue about the history of Ireland etc but sing "rebel" songs. Does that make them Republicans? (as a poster above has said)

No,of course not, just ignorant.

Well they would be Republican in ideology. That is what I meant. I agree that they don't understand the political history of the UK and the ROI.

Eirebear

Guys an arsehole.

Compared Mo Edu to a "Looky Looky Man" last season, racist and bigoted.
Scum.

Dempsey

CSF wrote: »

So just to clarify, it is sectarian to despise a religion because you think it preaches evil? If this is the case, then I'm ok with that.

But that isnt what you said, is it.

I agree about the Catholicism part, and it being one of my primary reasons for disliking Celtic

Disliking Celtic because of a religious element is sectarian. Doesnt matter if you are Atheist, Protestant, Muslim or bloody Scientologist. Being an atheist doesnt make sectarian remarks acceptable.

CSF

Dempsey wrote: »

But that isnt what you said, is it.



Disliking Celtic because of a religious element is sectarian. Doesnt matter if you are Atheist, Protestant, Muslim or bloody Scientologist. Being an atheist doesnt make sectarian remarks acceptable.

So having valid reasons is irrelevant then?

Dempsey

CSF wrote: »

So having valid reasons is irrelevant then?

Whats the 'valid reason'?

CSF

Dempsey wrote: »

Whats the 'valid reason'?

For hating Catholicism? Surely that is obvious.