Jeff Winter

Dempsey

CSF wrote: »

For hating Catholicism? Surely that is obvious.

Needed to make sure that we were on the same page is all.

What do the crimes of the catholic church have to do with Celtic FC?

CSF

Dempsey wrote: »

Needed to make sure that we were on the same page is all.

What do the crimes of the catholic church have to do with Celtic FC?

I actually wasn't talking about the priests. I was more referring to do with views on homosexuality and such and the lives that have been ruined as a result.

As for what that has to do with Celtic, directly nothing, but I have always considered Celtic a Catholic club (and no not just a club supported mostly by Catholics, if that were the case I'd dislike my own club) and my pure hatred for the Catholic church would lead me to dislike (not hate) institutions (not people) I consider to be Catholic. Especially a football club because I feel religion has no place in football.

We've had people in here saying that Celtic are not a Catholic football club, but from my experience of the Celtic/Rangers rivalry, particularly having spent time up north where it raises its head alot more than here, the intensity has been as much Catholic/Protestant as it has Nationalist/Unionist. I strongly dislike that.

Dempsey

Celtic are not 'Catholic club' no matter what you say or think or anyone that you met up north says or thinks. Its an ignorant label you have there tbh. Someone's perception doesnt make it a reality no matter how much they convince themselves it is.

When people say that Celtic is an Irish club, do you believe them?

Richard Hillman

Ive seen many instances of celtic fans dressing up as the pope when they go to Ibrox.

The_Kew_Tour

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Ive seen many instances of celtic fans dressing up as the pope when they go to Ibrox.

Seen it few times at Easter Road too:pac:

CSF

Celtic fans actually sing or have sung about how good it is to be a Roman Catholic. How did I forget this when such stupid arguments were thrown at me?

Eirebear

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Ive seen many instances of celtic fans dressing up as the pope when they go to Ibrox.

He only does it to wind up rangers fans, silly.

tommyhaas

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Ive seen many instances of celtic fans dressing up as the pope when they go to Ibrox.

Which I'd imagine is more an insult to those who take religion seriously then a means of respect or worship. I've certainly never seen a religious person worship the Catholic church by dressing up as the Pope

As an aside, do those that dislike Celtic on the basis of the perceived association with Catholicism fell similarly about Spurs on the basis of their perceived association with Judaism?

And I assume those associating Catholicism with Republicanism are aware of the large number of Nationalists who weren't Catholic, notably Wolfe Tone who I think was Presbyterian

Broxi_Bear_Eire

tommyhaas wrote: »

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Ive seen many instances of celtic fans dressing up as the pope when they go to Ibrox.

Which I'd imagine is more an insult to those who take religion seriously then a means of respect or worship. I've certainly never seen a religious person worship the Catholic church by dressing up as the Pope

As an aside, do those that dislike Celtic on the basis of the perceived association with Catholicism fell similarly about Spurs on the basis of their perceived association with Judaism?

And I assume those associating Catholicism with Republicanism are aware of the large number of Nationalists who weren't Catholic, notably Wolfe Tone who I think was Presbyterian

Don't tell us go over to Parkhead and tell a fair few of them who don't know these things
Also this "perceived association with Catholicism to Celtic" it's not perceived its factual the demographics of there support tell you this I am not saying this in a bad way it's just the way it is

tommyhaas

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Don't tell us go over to Parkhead and tell a fair few of them who don't know these things
Also this "perceived association with Catholicism to Celtic" it's not perceived its factual the demographics of there support tell you this I am not saying this in a bad way it's just the way it is

The fan base are predominately Catholic, but the association is with the fan base as oppose to the institution of the Catholic church which is what I was getting at, as a previous posters assertion was that his dislike of Celtic was based on a dislike of the Catholic Church as oppose to Catholics in general

The post wasn't aimed at you by any means, I realise you know more about it then most. My post was aimed at the previous poster who seemed to think a fans dressing up as the Pope was a religious act, as oppose to it being a lad taking the piss

I realise there are of course Celtic fans who are completely unaware of the issues related to what they purport to believe in, and believe it to be a Catholic v Protestant thing. These people IMO are the one of the root causes of the problem, along with a denominational schooling system

carlcon

Is it not fair to say though that the Catholic -v- Protestant thing comes out more via political/nationalist ways? "Ooh ah, up the RA" being sang along with songs about famine in response, for example? I know it's being argued that religion and politics are different things, but come on... we all know they're very strongly intertwined, particularly amongst the Irish involved.

And on the point about Spurs and their Jewish connections... do they sing any anti-German songs, pro-war songs, or have an opposing team who chant Islamic/Palestinian/whatever chants at them? Because if they do, then yeah, it'd totally be the same thing and I would also oppose that.

That's an actual question, by the way... not being a smart arse (although I accept the 3rd one is highly unlikely).

To my knowledge, the Jewish contingent of the Spurs fans have been victims of anti-Semitism, but they're not ones for aggressive pro-Jewish war chants. If someone can prove me wrong on that, I'll happily acknowledge it. Fully admitting I'm coming from a certain level of ignorance when it comes to the Spurs fanbase.

Will I Amnt

I keep forgetting this thread is about Jeff Winter every time I start reading it.

Paparazzo

CSF wrote: »

Celtic fans actually sing or have sung about how good it is to be a Roman Catholic. How did I forget this when such stupid arguments were thrown at me?

Ah, good old celtic fans, sing ira songs, but go mental when rangers sing billy boys. Both teams wind each other up, but they seem to like being wound up. Celtic seem to love playing the victim.

bobbysands81

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Ive seen many instances of celtic fans dressing up as the pope when they go to Ibrox.

I'm struggling to see your point here.

There's a fella lives near me that has a Nazi tattoo, do you think I'm stupid enough to think that all Irish people are Nazi's?

bobbysands81

CSF wrote: »

Celtic fans actually sing or have sung about how good it is to be a Roman Catholic. How did I forget this when such stupid arguments were thrown at me?

:facepalm:

So what???

Some Celtic fans are Catholic. Celtic are not a Catholic club though, can you not see this difference?

bobbysands81

Paparazzo wrote: »

Ah, good old celtic fans, sing ira songs, but go mental when rangers sing billy boys. Both teams wind each other up, but they seem to like being wound up. Celtic seem to love playing the victim.

The ignorance on this thread is astounding!!!

Silvio.Dante

Paparazzo wrote: »

Ah, good old celtic fans, sing ira songs, but go mental when rangers sing billy boys. Both teams wind each other up, but they seem to like being wound up. Celtic seem to love playing the victim.

Here we go again with the old canard that Celtic and Rangers fans are as bad as eachother... Yawn...

Paparazzo

bobbysands81 wrote: »

...ignorant standpoint....

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Fantastic ignorance - congratulations!

bobbysands81 wrote: »

The ignorance you are posting ....

bobbysands81 wrote: »

......you're being ignorant to the facts.

bobbysands81 wrote: »

...... based on ignorance.

bobbysands81 wrote: »

.....false and ignorant

bobbysands81 wrote: »

The ignorance on this thread is astounding!!!

Bobby, your posts remind me of Michael Jackson in Southpark.
Funny that someone with the username "bobbysands81" is arguing it too. Celtic fans never mention the ira then?

TheBuilder

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Here we go again with the old canard that Celtic and Rangers fans are as bad as eachother... Yawn...

Well, they are.

But that's for a different thread.

Drummerboy2

I read Winter's book recently, why I don't know. However in the book he refers to becoming friendly with Alex Rae of Wolves, who went on to Rangers. Rae invited Winter up to watch him play at Rangers. Winter is a Middlesboro supporter and he writes in his book about the time he spent as a football holigan before he took up refereeing.

TheBuilder

"I apologise if anyone has been offended by my comments but they were simply aimed at the 4692 celtic-minded morons who have racial abused me over the past year, including 583 death threats. I suggest Scotland has a very serious problem of sectarianism against protestants and i suggest that this stems soley from the of support celtic fc. The real story is why the media in scotland has never pursued this."

.....

bobbysands81

Paparazzo wrote: »

Bobby, your posts remind me of Michael Jackson in Southpark.
Funny that someone with the username "bobbysands81" is arguing it too. Celtic fans never mention the ira then?

Where has anyone tried to claim they haven't? When you're losing the argument move the goalposts eh? This argument is about someone saying that Celtic were a Catholic institution and all Celtic fans were Catholic, utter nonsense, religion is not and never has been at issue at Celtic.

super_furry

TheBuilder wrote: »

.....

Where's that from?

bobbysands81

TheBuilder wrote: »

.....

Is that real mate???

If so, his proof reader has obviously left him in the lurch!

GLaDOS

Apologies if this has been explained before (I've skipped through a lot of the arguing on thread), but why is there such animosity between Winters and Celtic FC? Seems like a bizarrely antagonistic thing for him to say, so I assume there's some sort of history there.

TheBuilder

super_furry wrote: »

Where's that from?

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Is that real mate???

If so, his proof reader has obviously left him in the lurch!

I've taken it from another forum, where its been said its his reply to the media when he was questioned about the blog, he currently in Australia. If its not actually what he said I'll remove it.

TheBuilder

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Apologies if this has been explained before (I've skipped through a lot of the arguing on thread), but why is there such animosity between Winters and Celtic FC? Seems like a bizarrely antagonistic thing for him to say, so I assume there's some sort of history there.

Basically he is a Middlesbrough fan, became friends with Alex Rae during his time at Rangers and went to a few games. Now he writes nonsense on a blog and does after dinner speaking to big himself up to a section of the Rangers support, he called McGeady a cheating bastard, Lennon a hate figure and now this. He's also racially abused a Rangers player in his blog.

The guy is a total cock, and the attention he is getting now is probably exactly what he wanted.

ballsymchugh

he feels he's been racially abused??

what race is he? he looks as much a caucasian as the majority of celtic fans in parkhead on a given weekend. unless there's a group of black/sub-continental/latino/asian celtic fans directing abuse at him?!

Paparazzo

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Where has anyone tried to claim they haven't? When you're losing the argument move the goalposts eh? This argument is about someone saying that Celtic were a Catholic institution and all Celtic fans were Catholic, utter nonsense, religion is not and never has been at issue at Celtic.

That wasn't my original point. I said celtic fans sing ira songs, but are up in arms when rangers sing the billy boys.

Although, I do think rangers are worse than celtic fans when it comes to this type of thing.

GLaDOS

TheBuilder wrote: »

Basically he is a Middlesbrough fan, became friends with Alex Rae during his time at Rangers and went to a few games. Now he writes nonsense on a blog and does after dinner speaking to big himself up to a section of the Rangers support, he called McGeady a cheating bastard, Lennon a hate figure and now this. He's also racially abused a Rangers player in his blog.

The guy is a total cock, and the attention he is getting now is probably exactly what he wanted.

Sounds like he's a bit.. simple.

TheBuilder

ballsymchugh wrote: »

he feels he's been racially abused??

what race is he? he looks as much a caucasian as the majority of celtic fans in parkhead on a given weekend. unless there's a group of black/sub-continental/latino/asian celtic fans directing abuse at him?!

Probably anti-english stuff.

Jelle1880

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Apologies if this has been explained before (I've skipped through a lot of the arguing on thread), but why is there such animosity between Winters and Celtic FC? Seems like a bizarrely antagonistic thing for him to say, so I assume there's some sort of history there.

He often posted screenshots from twitter and the likes on his blog, where he responded to insults aimed at him by Celtic fans.

RoryMac

Jelle1880 wrote: »

He often posted screenshots from twitter and the likes on his blog, where he responded to insults aimed at him by Celtic fans.

Yes where he showed himself to be just as idiotic as the clowns insulting him. Unfortunately everyone in the public eye receives a certain amount of this kind of abuse on sites like twitter, most deal with it without having to resort to the sh!te Winter wrote.

bobbysands81

Jeff Winter seems to have bagged himself a job with Sky Sports.

I hope he fails miserably.

Mr.Crinklewood

His house was raided this morning in relation to the remarks on his website.

Source.

Ex-referee Jeff Winter probed over 'anti-Catholic posts'

Mr Winter retired from professional refereeing in 2004
The home of former Premiership referee Jeff Winter has been raided by police over alleged anti-Catholic remarks on his website after an Old Firm game.

Officers from Strathclyde Police seized equipment from Mr Winter's home in Middlesbrough on Tuesday morning.

A man was detained and later released by police in London during a further operation. This was not Mr Winter.

The probe centres on comments on Mr Winter's website after Celtic beat Rangers 1-0 in December 2011.

Mr Winter, who has described himself as a Rangers fan, is alleged to have made anti-Catholic remarks on his website following the game.

'Ongoing inquiry'
A spokeswoman for Strathclyde Police confirmed that an operation had targeted an address in Middlesbrough.

She said: "Around 0800 hours on Tuesday 11 September 2012, officers from the national Football Co-ordination Unit, acting under warrant, searched a house in Middlesbrough and seized various items of equipment.

"The search is part of an ongoing inquiry in connection with alleged offensive comments posted on a website.

"A further operation in London resulted in one man being detained by police and thereafter released. Enquiries continue."

Mr Winter's last post on his twitter account, dated 30 August, said that he was at the airport and would not be back until 18 September.

The 57-year-old retired from professional refereeing after taking charge of the 2004 FA Cup Final between Manchester United and Millwall.

Dempsey

With a response time like that, the police must have been bored off their tits today!

NIMAN

That news story says

The probe centres on comments on Mr Winter's website after Celtic beat Rangers 1-0 in December 2011.

So why did it take so long to talk to him? Its 9 months old.

And I guess this bit
A man was detained and later released by police in London during a further operation. This was not Mr Winter.
maybe means it was hacked?

ctrl-alt-delete

Dempsey wrote: »

With a response time like that, the police must have been bored off their tits today!

It is quite a rapid response for Middlesbrough!

Jelle1880

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

It is quite a rapid response for Middlesbrough!

That's what makes it even more stupid, it wasn't even English police.

Strathclyde Police raided his house.

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

That's what makes it even more stupid, it wasn't even English police.

Strathclyde Police raided his house.

Whats stupid about it? Middlesbrough Police probably helped them make the raid.

Jelle1880

The article clearly states Strathclyde Police officers.

I just think it's weird that officers from another country can do this, due to a stupid post on a website.

Madam

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The article clearly states Strathclyde Police officers.

I just think it's weird that officers from another country can do this, due to a stupid post on a website.

You think its stupid, not sectarian?

Jelle1880

Madam wrote: »

You think its stupid, not sectarian?

There's definitely a bigoted viewpoint at play, regarding the pope.

But what he said is not sectarian in my opinion.

Madam

Jelle1880 wrote: »

There's definitely a bigoted viewpoint at play, regarding the pope.

But what he said is not sectarian in my opinion.

You say bigoted I say sectarian - what's the difference?:)

Jelle1880

Madam wrote: »

You say bigoted I say sectarian - what's the difference?:)

Look up the definitions of both

A bigot is someone who regards people of other groups (be it religious or ethnic) with hatred or intolerance.

So yes, saying **** the Pope is intolerant and clearly a bigoted statement.

Sectarianism is taking that bigotry and using it to actively discriminate or even perform violent acts against other groups.

So to me sectarianism is a step further than bigotry.

Why I think it's one and not the other ?
Because he simply states his point of view about the Pope, something which may be rather unsavory, but doesn't harm anyone.

Renn

tommyhaas wrote: »

And regarding agreeing with his sentiments about the Catholic church, what about all the good people within the church? And the huge amount of good they have done both over here and abroad? Should the good deeds and dedication to communities of many be tainted by the disgusting deeds of a few? Should those who continue to do good work in the name of the church be also criticised?

Agreed. Say, if there’s two hundred million priests in the world, and five per cent of them are paedophiles, that’s still only ten million.

Madam

Renn wrote: »

Agreed. Say, if there’s two hundred million priests in the world, and five per cent of them are paedophiles, that’s still only ten million.

Only:eek:

Madam

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Look up the definitions of both

A bigot is someone who regards people of other groups (be it religious or ethnic) with hatred or intolerance.

So yes, saying **** the Pope is intolerant and clearly a bigoted statement.

Sectarianism is taking that bigotry and using it to actively discriminate or even perform violent acts against other groups.

So to me sectarianism is a step further than bigotry.

Why I think it's one and not the other ?
Because he simply states his point of view about the Pope, something which may be rather unsavory, but doesn't harm anyone.

I see - I think I agree with ya:)

Oh and the Pope thing, well he was kind of spot on there wasn't he?

Jelle1880

I wasn't gonna comment on that, but well... :pac:

Not really tasteful, but hard to disagree with it.
It's more the manner in which he said it, followed by the FTP at the end.

CSF

I don't think hatred of a religion is a problem at all. I openly will express my hatred for Catholicism and I couldn't give a fiddlers what term is put on that.

The problem arises when people start hating people for being that religion. Tolerance is a virtue.