New fish tank, 13 fish DEAD in a week please help

somegirl2009

ok so we got a new fish tank, 50L, have the temperature set at 24degres have the filter , set up the fish tank for a few days before we put the fish in it, we got about 7 of the very small neon fish and then 6 bigger fish. there was lots of space in the tank.

a week later, there is only 1 fish left, alive,

i treated the water as i was told to do in pet mania . the fish were fed twice a day maby this was a bit much?


is there anyone out there that has any idea what could have happened? thanks

Rangi

Sounds like your filter and tank have not 'matured' properly. What were the 'bigger fish'? If you don't know,you shouldn't have bought them. Sorry,I don't mean to sound harsh,but there are so many species out there,it's best to research what their requirements are before buying them,eg what type of water(hard/soft),what size they will grow too,what other species they are compatible with,etc.
Have a look on http://www.irishfishforum.com/ and read about maturing filters. the lads and lassies on there really know their stuff,and are only too keen to help out.
Good luck with sorting it out,and hope it dosn't put you off a very rewarding hobby.

WIZE

clearly you didn't cycle you tank . You .poisoned them . Could have been ph Levels or ammonia levels did it. should have your tank running for weeks before you add any fish . Next time you should do your research . Lesson learned.

Cookie_Monster

as above tank is not cycled.

This takes about 6 weeks. What you need to make sure happens is that there are enough bacteria living in the tank and filter to be able to process your fish waste. Ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate. The bacteria need a source of ammonia to grow and then the next type process the nitrite and grow and then it's ok.

Too many fish to fast = too much ammonia and not enough bacteria = poisoned fish.

A 50L tank may not be suitable for the number of fish you had either, depending on how big they were, even when it was fully matured.

An explanation and a decent diagram to understand it
http://www.worldcichlids.com/faqs/cycling.html

paddy147

Guys will you lay off the girl with the aggressive and harsh comments.

We have all made mistakes in the past,no one is perfect,especially when you are only a newbie and getting into fish keeping.Making mistakes is how you learn and become a better fish keeper.Its like anything in life really.


Ok,so the tank and filter have not established themselves in a matter of a few days,and sadly all of the fished have died on her.
She "may" have been given wrong advice by the pet shop on setting up the tank,but no one has stopped to think of that though.


But acting all aggressive like this towards her isnt going to make the girl want to post here anymore.

Ease off and be a bit more polite in the way you post.

paddy147

WIZE wrote: »

clearly you didn't cycle you tank . You .poisoned them . Could have been ph Levels or ammonia levels did it. should have your tank running for weeks before you add any fish . Next time you should do your research . Lesson learned.

Thats why she is asking here,in a polite and non aggressive manner.

To ask and get the help and get experience from others here on this "friendly" and "informative" fish forum.

She WAS given ADVICE from a particular fish shop (which she clearly states).

She may also have "possibly" been given wrong advice by the pet shop and been miss informed on other aspects of the tank setup,cycling and adding the fish ........did you ever stop to think of that???????

Because an aggressive and rude post like the above post of you're doesnt help anyone out.:(

WIZE

Paddy I'm not going to sugar coat my post . I'm stating the fact that if your going to keep tropical fish then research it first . Not research it after you killed your fish .

I stated bluntly in my post the facts .

Sleepy

To be fair, I made a similar mistake when I first started keeping goldfish, had 5 of the poor things in an uncycled 20l tank as that's how many the pet-store told me I'd be fine keeping, washed the filter out with tap water and all the other idiotic mistakes a fish-keeper can make when they've not been given proper advice at point-of-purchase.

I blame the petshops and the companys making the "quick start your filter" snake oil far more than the new fish-keepers tbh.

Sleepy

OP - if your last fish is still alive, the first thing to do is a 50% water change making sure to top the tank back up with water you've treated with a good de-chlorinator (Stress Coat, Prime etc.) and brought up to as close as possible to 25 degrees as possible.

fungun

A pet shop should tell you the correct approach and for a lot of people that is all the research they do at the start - the pet shop is to blame for that.

anyway, for now - what can you do? 2 approaches - One would be to do as Sleepy says, do a large water change and keep changing it, and carefully manage your tank for now. If doing this, reduce your feeding to a small amount once a day or once every 2 days...dont worry they wont starve. At this stage it might be easier though if you knew someone with a tank (or go back to your fish shop and tell them what happened) and ask them to take your last fish. Then cycle your tank as per links above and wait until it is all ok before introducing fish into it.

Another thing for next time is that I really wouldnt add 13 fish into a new tank from scratch, its a large quick change to the biological load. Also the quality of a lot of the neons you get in shops can be a bit iffy, so they arent the best first fish to put in (although people use them for that as they are cheap). Depending what else you would like in the tank Id consider putting in 1 or 2 larger, more robust fish first, and then add a few of the neons a couple of weeks later.

Best of luck with your new hobby; dont get put off by your first mistake, we all make them

paddy147

WIZE wrote: »

Paddy I'm not going to sugar coat my post . I'm stating the fact that if your going to keep tropical fish then research it first . Not research it after you killed your fish .

I stated bluntly in my post the facts .

You stated it bluntly??

Yes you sure did,and you were very aggressive and quite rude in how you posted it too.

The girl/lady is new to fish keeping.
For all you know,she could have been given wrong/bad advice by a pet shop on how to set up the tank,but you didnt stop to read the post propperly and digest it all 1st,before posting.You just waded straight in with a very aggressive and rude post to her.

Shes a newbie to fish keeping,and you being so aggressive and harsh towards her,will not make her want to post here anymore,if thats how you intend to treat her and respond to newbies to fish keeping.:rolleyes::mad:

No one is perfect and we all make misstakes from time to time,when we dont know what to do or are learning for the 1st time.

Cop on a bit here and wize up,and be a little more polite too.

star-pants

Paddy147 - you've had more than one backseat moderating style post in this thread. If you have an issue with a post, use the report post function and a moderator will deal with any issues. (Do not reply to this post, PM if you seek more clarification)

Can we please get back ON to the topic at hand here and offer helpful comments and advice to the OP given she's obviously trying to learn now.

paddy147

somegirl2009 wrote: »

ok so we got a new fish tank, 50L, have the temperature set at 24degres have the filter , set up the fish tank for a few days before we put the fish in it, we got about 7 of the very small neon fish and then 6 bigger fish. there was lots of space in the tank.

a week later, there is only 1 fish left, alive,

i treated the water as i was told to do in pet mania . the fish were fed twice a day maby this was a bit much?


is there anyone out there that has any idea what could have happened? thanks

Can I just add this.......

If you were given wrong advice on how to set up the tank by a pet shop,and you followed that advice,then I would also take the dead fish back to the pet shop and either ask for you're money back or get replacement fish off them,when the tank is ready nfor them.

Its not you're fault if you followed their advice,and this resulted in the fish dying.

"IF" (and Im using the word if carefully here) you have been given bad advice,then you are not blame and you should follow this up with the pet shop and get either money back or new fish stock offf them for no charge.

Fair is fair.

But go back to the pet shop and raise the matter with them ASAP.

Best of luck.:)

Cameron Poe

It does sound like the shop gave poor advice and they should not have sold that many fish for a new tank. But they are not fully at fault here.

Not doing any research on any live animals before buying is asking for trouble. If this was in the dog and cat section and the animal died from poor husbandry there would be no sympathy for the op.

The "snake oil" solutions to instantly cycle a tank work very well if the directions are followed to the letter. I wouldn't recommend them for newbies though as it is easy to mess it up.

I would not buy fish from any of the chain stores. There is a list of shops on the link Rangi put up. Stick to those and you will not be put wrong.

paddy147

Has anyone stopped to think that as a newbie,the girl may have very well gone to the pet shop and said "I want to start up a small fish tank,Id like that type of fish,so what do I need to do and buy to do this,and how do I set it up"????

To me that is research and thats what pet stores are supposed to do....ADVIZE newbies to various forms of keeping fish,pets and animals.

Its the responsibility of the pet store to advize PROPPERLY the customer what the best thing to do is.

So if a fish keeping person in the pet store tells a newbie what to do or what to buy or how to set it up,then the newbie is going to go with that advice and also believe that pet store worker.

So if the newbie has got and taken advice from the pet store then SHE HAS done her research by asking the pet shops advice on fish keeping..

WIZE

Paddy , take a chill pill

the OP asked what could have happened

She was told by the facts she provided is that most likely the fish got ammonia poisoning due to adding too any fish to an uncycled tank . ( 13 fish to 50ltr )

feeding them twice a day just added to the ammonia

how could a shop get so many things wrong

Cameron Poe

I don't really buy that Paddy. I think the majority of people would carry out their own research. A shop is a shop and certain shops only care about profit. They have cheap unknowledgable staff, cheap fish, high prices and zero interest in customer care. They are not a good substitute for a decent book.

I know the op had no way of knowing where to shop but any small amount of research on the Internet would have provided a list of decent shops.

Anyway OP I wouldn't be too disheartened. Do a 30% water change and bring a sample of water to be tested in a good shop.

MiamiMice

Is the last fish one of them japanese fighting fish thingys?

If so, I think I know the problem...

paddy147

Cameron Poe wrote: »

I don't really buy that Paddy. I think the majority of people would carry out their own research. A shop is a shop and certain shops only care about profit. They have cheap unknowledgable staff, cheap fish, high prices and zero interest in customer care. They are not a good substitute for a decent book.

I know the op had no way of knowing where to shop but any small amount of research on the Internet would have provided a list of decent shops.

Anyway OP I wouldn't be too disheartened. Do a 30% water change and bring a sample of water to be tested in a good shop.

The lady is a newbie,and when a new person goes into a pet shop and sees a fish section and asks a question or 2 and gets answers and feedback,then that person will tend to believe what the pet shop worker is telling them.

I learned the hard way myself,and now know that what one shop says might not be the gospel truth.Its called gaining experience and knowladge



But bashing a newbie up like this in such an aggressive way isnt the way to do things or promote this forum either.

If anything,it might dishearten her or any other potential nerwbies from daring to post a thread here again.Advize by all means,but advize with a more gentle and subtle approach and dont go all aggro on her.

star-pants

WIZE wrote: »

Paddy , take a chill pill

WIZE if you've an issue with a manner of posting, please use the report post function

paddy147 wrote: »

But bashing a newbie up like this in such an aggressive way isnt the way to do things or promote this forum either.

If anything,it might dishearten her or any other potential nerwbies from daring to post a thread here again.Advize by all means,but advize with a more gentle and subtle approach and dont go all aggro on her.

I have warned you on-thread and via PM about backseat moderation. This is your last warning. Do NOT respond on thread or via PM.

WIZE

star-pants wrote: »

WIZE if you've an issue with a manner of posting, please use the report post function


[/B]

fine

fungun

I dont think bringing the fish back to the shop is going to get her a refund, but it might be worth letting the shop know that having followed their advice to the best of your ability you still had all these problems. Prob best to address this to a manager rather than the fish person...the fish person will prob just poke holes in what you did to defend themselves. But if it stops them giving out the same rubbish advice to the next person, then you will have done your good deed for the day.

paddy147

To somegirl2009.................

Please do post again and let us know how you get on and what the pet shop says to you.Go and talk tyo them and tell them what has happened,after taking their advice.

Dont get or be put off by this experience,bacause once you get the hang of it,you will never look back.

Trust me.:)

Cherry Blossom

OP - I know you only have one fish left now, but I wouldn't get any more for the next three weeks until the tank stabilizes. In the meantime that gives you three weeks to get a good book on fish keeping, the one I have is very much a beginners book and there are probably better ones some other posters might be able to recommend. It is very easy to understand though and gives clear instructions on setting up and maintaining your tank and gives good information on on different species of fish and which types they get on with etc.

The book I have is The Aquarium Owners Handbook.

I'd also be inclined to stick to the hardier types of fish until you gain a little more experience with those, it's always a good idea to plan ahead as well so if there are certain types you want to add in future, make sure the fish you get now will be compatible with those.

somegirl2009

Thanks to everybody for the comments and advice ,

1 pet shop said to leave the tank running a week before putting fish, and another pet shop told me that there is no need to do this at all.from reading all the comments im guessing that the fish tank was not ready for fish.........there is one fish left alive in the tank, should i change 30-50% of the water and wait a few weeks before adding any more fish? and is once a day enough to feed the fish?


Thanks

Cookie_Monster

somegirl2009 wrote: »

Thanks to everybody for the comments and advice ,

1 pet shop said to leave the tank running a week before putting fish, and another pet shop told me that there is no need to do this at all.from reading all the comments im guessing that the fish tank was not ready for fish.........there is one fish left alive in the tank, should i change 30-50% of the water and wait a few weeks before adding any more fish? and is once a day enough to feed the fish?


Thanks

Yes, change about 50%. This will take out lots of the ammonia while leaving enough for the bacteria to continue to grow but not poison your fish.

Once a day is enough to feed, you should just add a little at a time and watch how much is eaten

With a tank that small you should change about 20-30% of the water weekly normally, it's just not a big enough volume to stay stable on its own and you'll need to remove the nitrate buildup by changing the water.

Leave the tank for a couple of weeks and then only add small numbers of fish, adding too many at once will lead to the same problem all over again, too much waste to handle. Adding a few fish at a time gives the filter bacteria a chance to grow to handle the increased load.

You might want to get a test kit too, there lots of types but one that test for ammonia and nitrite are the most useful, you can then easily monitor the levels and know when it safe to add fish. If you read about cycling you'll see that ammonia will increase first and then drop down to zero, then nitrite will increase and drop down too. Once both have spiked and dropped you are good to add more fish

Got any pics?

uck51js9zml2yt

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

somegirl2009 wrote: »

Thanks to everybody for the comments and advice ,

1 pet shop said to leave the tank running a week before putting fish, and another pet shop told me that there is no need to do this at all.from reading all the comments im guessing that the fish tank was not ready for fish.........there is one fish left alive in the tank, should i change 30-50% of the water and wait a few weeks before adding any more fish? and is once a day enough to feed the fish?


Thanks

Yes, change about 50%. This will take out lots of the ammonia while leaving enough for the bacteria to continue to grow but not poison your fish.

Once a day is enough to feed, you should just add a little at a time and watch how much is eaten

With a tank that small you should change about 20-30% of the water weekly normally, it's just not a big enough volume to stay stable on its own and you'll need to remove the nitrate buildup by changing the water.

Leave the tank for a couple of weeks and then only add small numbers of fish, adding too many at once will lead to the same problem all over again, too much waste to handle. Adding a few fish at a time gives the filter bacteria a chance to grow to handle the increased load.

You might want to get a test kit too, there lots of types but one that test for ammonia and nitrite are the most useful, you can then easily monitor the levels and know when it safe to add fish. If you read about cycling you'll see that ammonia will increase first and then drop down to zero, then nitrite will increase and drop down too. Once both have spiked and dropped you are good to add more fish

Got any pics?

i was going to.mention a test kit as well. the most important piece of kit for a fishkeeper.
you can get them online a lot cheaper than in store.