Us marines urinate on dead taliban

MrStuffins

tfitzgerald wrote: »

They should treat the dead with some respect . I don't care if they were Taliban or anything else they paid the ultimate sacrifice for their beliefs . To do that to them was wrong

No they didn't.

THEY paid the price for OTHER'S beliefs because the guys pulling the strings aren't stupid enough to go do the dirty work themselves!

Do you think each individual US soldier is there because they "believe"? Ballocks, they're there because their superior officers and politicians decide who they wanna be pissed off with this week and tell them who go go fight with.

Then you have the Taliban. They only believe what they believe because they're been indoctrinated severely!

"Blow yourself up, become a martyr and go to the next life where you will be rewarded!"

-"Sounds awesome, why havent you done it?"

"Erm......... i'm gonna let you go first...... being a nice guy and all! Remember, save some virgins for me!!"

Doc Ruby

I don't think they should have done it, the US forces should adhere to a higher standard because they need to set an example and they are a professional fighting force.

However I don't care and am baffled at the ferocious debate. The men are just men, human, and no doubt this was a little stress relief.

two wheels good

slowmoe wrote: »

Tbh i don't think its ever ok to urinate on a dead body or to humilate it in any way. I think its disgusting and says a lot about the american soldiers themselves nevermind how this behavour contributes to the volatile situation there.

Exactly so.
"Despoiling of the dead is illegal under the Geneva conventions as well as under US military law." Quote from here. So why would anyone want to excuse it?

Most posters seem to be assuming the dead Afghanis were indeed Taliban. The Afghani civilians have been targeted too.

"The US Military command in Kabul, which was severely embarrassed last year by revelations that Americans soldiers were running a "kill squad" murdering Afghan civilians," Here

"A US army soldier accused of exhorting his bored underlings to slaughter Afghan civilians for sport has been convicted of murder, conspiracy and all other charges at his court martial."

Then there was the recent story of a British squaddy, so hung-over after a binge on smuggled vodka that his weapons were confiscated by his officer. Unfortunately he was left his bayonet which he used to stab an Afghani child in the back - because the child, cycling his bike, wouldn't stop for him.

Then there are the numerous stories of drone attacks in Afghan and Pakistan inadvertently hitting civilians.

deisedave

How do people even know the dead guys were not just farmers they didnt have taliban tattooed across their head, People are judging these guys before anyone know what happened.
Taliban are scumbags but can you say every Irish person killed by the British army was IRA... no you cant same with the Afghans.

The American army is by and large full of good to do young men but these lads were acting the scumbags.

mr kr0nik

War, huh! What is it good for?


Absolutely nothing...


(in my opinion)

Nodin

ronan45 wrote: »

I saw a video of the taliban cutting off an elderly mans head. I cant recall the poor chaps name. English chap think he had a philipino wife he was about 60
.........!

No, you didn't. Different country, different group.

smash

jomc wrote: »

Pissing on people, dead or alive is just wrong

Unless you're into that kinda thing!

Logical Fallacy

MrStuffins wrote: »

Is pissing against the Geneva Convention?

Desecration of bodies is.

So...you kind of just shot your argument and pissed on it tbh.

Manic Moran

hightower1 wrote: »

To survive mentally over there you have to cultivate an attitude of hate twords your enemy, the corps knows this and promotes it. It gives you strength to carry on and focus on something other than the constant threat of unexpected death.

You cant ask someone to hate their enemy, to fight in a forigen land far from their loved ones , to hold on to and learn to use that hate to survive ... then be shocked when they cross lines with that hate.

What they did wasnt right but I can see as to where their mentality was from. No doubt the soldiers in question will be dealth with by their CO.

Still, its very hard to feel empathy twords any taiban fighter though.

I think I have a little personal experience on the matter, and I have little sympathy for this argument. The Marines were idiots, plain and simple.

Now, there is something of an old tradition of symbolically urinating on the enemy. General Patton made a full photo-op of urinating into the Rhine to express his opinion of Germans, for example. There is a very common bumper sticker in the US of a boy urinating on <insert object of derision here>. The act itself really isn't the end of the world. However, this is not WWII, or the American Civil War, and there is just little leeway for such acts today in Afghanistan. It was, plain and simple, unprofessional and unthinking. And, arguably, illegal given the rules on desecration of enemy bodies.

In terms of the Afghan conflict, I actually think it'll have little practical effect. But it certainly doesn't help the US PR effort in countries outside of Afghanistan.

NTM

SillyMcCarthy

MrStuffins wrote: »

Lads, it's war.

But oh no, a bit of piss! What's the world coming to?!?!?!

A bit of perspective here!

Gotta agree! No rules out there folks. It's everyman for themselves.
Geneva conventions my arse.

Robdude

If someone brutally killed me, and then pissed on my dead body; I'd be a lot more upset about the KILLLING than the pissing.

I'd rather someone piss on me and NOT kill me, than have someone kill me but then treat my body with the utmost of care.

I think it's interesting that nobody has a problem with the death of these guys. That's okay. If the marines killed them....so what? That's cool. That's what marines do! They kill. That's fine. We're cool with that.

BUT OH NO! THEY DIDN'T TREAT THE BODY PROPERLY!

I'm not saying pissing on dead bodies is a good way to go through life. But I do find it interesting how people are responding to it.

af_thefragile

SillyMcCarthy wrote: »

Gotta agree! No rules out there folks. It's everyman for themselves.
Geneva conventions my arse.

So why does everyone moan when the Taliban plant IEDs and blow up american soldiers or when they decide to kidnap some western media personal and stuff?

There is a reason more and more people in the tribal areas of north Pakistan and Afghanistan are joining the Taliban and taking arms against US military forces by the day.

US army drops bombs and missiles on the civilian population of that region nearly everyday. Thousands of people have lost their family members in US drone attacks or under fire from the soldiers. Most of these people see the war as unjust, unfair and imposed on them by USA. After losing their family members and seeing their loved ones die by american fire, a lot of these people decide to fight against the invading armies by joining the Taliban.

If Taliban were just a bunch of nutters whom nobody liked then they would have been cleared away the the NATO forces long ago but that's not case as the war continues on after more than 10 years.

To many people of the region of Afghanistan and northern Pakistan, the Taliban are not religious nutters but they see the Taliban as the force resisting the US invasion and occupation of their lands and hence as US continues to kill more people in this region, more will decide to take up arms against the US.

And if you don't believe this is true then you are very ill informed.

Nobody hates America for their freedom. They hate American because American soldiers attack their lands, drop bombs and kill their families and loved ones.

SillyMcCarthy

af_thefragile wrote: »

They hate American because American soldiers attack their lands, drop bombs and kill their families and loved ones.

Spoken like a true Irish republican! Brits out!!!

pablomakaveli

This was a pretty dumb move by a small group of idiots in the Marines but to be fair this kind of behaviour isnt condoned by the US forces and the individuals involved will at least be punished. Every organization has its irresponsible idiots and the Marines is no different.

On another note i find it a bit disturbing that some posters on here (and on other sites i've been on) hate the US so much they're willing to sympathize with a group like the Taliban. The whole "the enemy of my enemy is friend" thing seems to be going a bit too far these days.

KeithAFC

This is a disgrace and is no shock when it comes to the US/Yankee Army. They have been doing this for years now. The US Empire is really stretching it when they recruit people such as this.

Washington DC has a lot to answer for on this case and why people like this are in the military.

The_Thing

America has been well deserving of a good arse-kicking for a long time and thankfully the Taliban have been doing just that.

Sindri

The_Thing wrote: »

America has been well deserving of a good arse-kicking for a long time and thankfully the Taliban have been doing just that.

No they haven't.

Do you watch the news?

mikemac1

I expect a few lowly marines to be disciplined

And the officers in charge of them to get off scott free

Robdude

The_Thing wrote: »

America has been well deserving of a good arse-kicking for a long time and thankfully the Taliban have been doing just that.

I can't wait for the day when Ireland finally steps up and teaches the US military a thing or two.

Mr Trade In

Sindri wrote: »

No they haven't.

Do you watch the news?

The question should be do you(poster above) read/watch the news or indeed history books, America invaded Afghanistan in 2001... Nearly 11 years ago and yet the Taliban is still fully operational.

Sheeps

i dont care about dead taliban guys being pissed on

Sheeps

KeithAFC wrote: »

This is a disgrace and is no shock when it comes to the US/Yankee Army. They have been doing this for years now. The US Empire is really stretching it when they recruit people such as this.

Washington DC has a lot to answer for on this case and why people like this are in the military.

What empire?

Sindri

Mr Trade In wrote: »

The question should be do you(poster above) read/watch the news or indeed history books, America invaded Afghanistan in 2001... Nearly 11 years ago and yet the Taliban is still fully operational.

Yeah.......


So the Taliban is giving America a good arse kicking...

Well done buddy.

laoch na mona

They know how to win over the native population don't they feckin geniuses

tigger123

MajorMax wrote: »

I cannot endorse the actions of these 4 young Marines as I don't think that they went far enough. This is PC gone mad, you can kill them in the most violent possible way but you can't mess with them once they're dead. These are Marines what did you expect to happen?

Anyone killed carrying arms against coalition forces should be killed without mercy regardless of sex or age, their head should be put on spikes outside the gates of the Marines bases, their bodies thrown in a charnel pit and allowed to rot or be eaten by dogs. Anyone identified as aiding or sheltering should have their homes destroyed and they should be thrown out on the street
The closest relation of the dead should then be arrested and their right hand cut off. If you are a suicide bomber all your immediate relations should have their right hand cut off live on TV. I guarantee you a sharp drop in volunteers

Like it or not this is not a war it is a Crusade, Christian against Muslim. We need to stamp out the infestation of religious fundamentalism by the most brutal of means. We need to meet atrocity with atrocity

Mutilation and desecration of your enemies dead has always been part of War. In 1943 in response to public outcry denouncing recently published pictures of American tanks being mounted with Japanese sculls, LIFE magazine editors stated
"war is unpleasant, cruel, and inhuman. And it is more dangerous to forget this than to be shocked by reminders."
This still applies today

That's a very angry post, a very angry post Ted.

KeithAFC

Sheeps wrote: »

What empire?

The US Empire. Invading countries since 1861. And this lot will get away with it I think. Who is to know they will get put out of the Army.

alphanine

I wouldn't piss on those if they were on fire, oh wait, they probably were.

laoch na mona

KeithAFC wrote: »

The US Empire. Invading countries since 1861. And this lot will get away with it I think. Who is to know they will get put out of the Army.

successor to the British empire next comes the Chinese empire

wp_rathead

MajorMax wrote:

Anyone killed carrying arms against coalition forces should be killed without mercy regardless of sex or age, their head should be put on spikes outside the gates of the Marines bases, their bodies thrown in a charnel pit and allowed to rot or be eaten by dogs. Anyone identified as aiding or sheltering should have their homes destroyed and they should be thrown out on the street
The closest relation of the dead should then be arrested and their right hand cut off. If you are a suicide bomber all your immediate relations should have their right hand cut off live on TV. I guarantee you a sharp drop in volunteers

ColeTrain

MrStuffins wrote: »

Wow, good for you :rolleyes:

Again, it's simple. Pissing is not the worst thing that is going on here. Why this is in the news is beyond me!

It's war, not football!

It's beyond you as to why this made the news? Seriously?

Pissmire

MajorMax wrote: »

Anyone killed carrying arms against coalition Taliban forces should be killed without mercy regardless of sex or age, their head should be put on spikes outside the gates of the Marines Taliban bases, their bodies thrown in a charnel pit and allowed to rot or be eaten by dogs. Anyone identified as aiding or sheltering should have their homes destroyed and they should be thrown out on the street
The closest relation of the dead should then be arrested and their right hand cut off. If you are a suicide bomber all your immediate relations should have their right hand cut off live on TV in public.

Made a few changes here. The original probably isn't a million miles from a Taliban motivational speech.

Run_to_da_hills

Robdude wrote: »

I can't wait for the day when Ireland finally steps up and teaches the US military a thing or two.

As you said, the Irish army would never stoop to such a low disgusting level of the US army that we have witnessed in that country. I am proud of our Army. Who could be proud of this scumbag army?

Maybe while the US army stop of at Shannon on the way to the middle east they could extend their stay and let our own army teach them some dignity. This could also add some revenue to the country.

LighterGuy

I am sure boards will blast me for this one ... :rolleyes:

ITS WAR!
Are some people living in their own reality or something? ... That them pissing on the bodies of their enemies is "too far"? .. So its ok to stab someone in the gut and watch them bleed to death ... just dont piss on him after he dies?

Dont tell me some Taliban soldier hasnt beheaded some US solider he killed.
Dont tell me the Taliban wouldnt rape the hell out of a female US soldier before killing her.

Its war!

snafuk35

Reminds me of how Kurtz in Apocalypse Now talks about they train men to drop fire on people but they are not allowed to write 'f*ck' on their airplanes because it's obscene.

Soldiers who are fighting and killing enemy and have their own comrades killed in return are going to get angry and take it out on the dead enemy. Officers should keep these guys disciplined of course and they should be punished to encourage les autres but its ridiculous to think that if you throw people into the savagery of armed conflict that they are not going to do stuff like this and worse.

snafuk35

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

As you said, the Irish army would never stoop to such a low disgusting level of the US army that we have witnessed in that country. I am proud of our Army. Who could be proud of this scumbag army?

Maybe while the US army stop of at Shannon on the way to the middle east they could extend their stay and let our own army teach them some dignity. This could also add some revenue to the country.

You've obviously never heard of the 77 republicans executed by the Free State Army during the Irish Civil War? How about the massacre at Ballyseedy when in retaliation for an explosion that killed several Free State soldiers, a group of republican prisoners were taken out of a jail in Kerry, tied to a mine and blown up before being machine gunned as they lay dead or dying?

The soldiers in the video are doing what people do when they have been dehumanised by combat.

Gee Bag

MajorMax wrote: »

I cannot endorse the actions of these 4 young Marines as I don't think that they went far enough. This is PC gone mad, you can kill them in the most violent possible way but you can't mess with them once they're dead. These are Marines what did you expect to happen?

Anyone killed carrying arms against coalition forces should be killed without mercy regardless of sex or age, their head should be put on spikes outside the gates of the Marines bases, their bodies thrown in a charnel pit and allowed to rot or be eaten by dogs. Anyone identified as aiding or sheltering should have their homes destroyed and they should be thrown out on the street
The closest relation of the dead should then be arrested and their right hand cut off. If you are a suicide bomber all your immediate relations should have their right hand cut off live on TV. I guarantee you a sharp drop in volunteers

Like it or not this is not a war it is a Crusade, Christian against Muslim. We need to stamp out the infestation of religious fundamentalism by the most brutal of means. We need to meet atrocity with atrocity

Mutilation and desecration of your enemies dead has always been part of War. In 1943 in response to public outcry denouncing recently published pictures of American tanks being mounted with Japanese sculls, LIFE magazine editors stated
"war is unpleasant, cruel, and inhuman. And it is more dangerous to forget this than to be shocked by reminders."
This still applies today

I was going to take this seriously for a minute, I became really scared.....


but then I noticed that your one of those silly airsoft people who spends their weekends playing with toy guns and pretending to be a soldier.

Sheeps

KeithAFC wrote: »

The US Empire. Invading countries since 1861. And this lot will get away with it I think. Who is to know they will get put out of the Army.

Umm, that doesn't mean they are imperial.

Liam Byrne

So.......

Taliban & Co murder a few thousand people and it's OK to piss on their dead bodies.

US Army shell Baghdad and murder 100,000 Iraqis......what is it appropriate to do to their dead bodies ?

Personally, both "sides" of this evil cancer are equally bad, so whatever is objectionable for one should be objectionable for the other.

I'm still waiting for our "neutral" country to allow Iraq & others use Shannon.

dasdog

1967 - Surround a village. If it runs, it's VC. If it stands still it's a well trained VC. Either way bring your bag of ears back to base and get beers for proof of dead gooks. Ears for beers. He who has the most wins.

2012 - Piss on a dead enemy, World News. OMG!!, Holy Crap!!, This is disgraceful!!

Yakult

Explosions in the Sky wrote: »

Wheres the headline Taliban plant IED and and kill "X" amount of Marines and leave "X" amount limbless :mad:

On the news when such event happens..

Wheres the headline that states how many innocent civilians have been killed in this war?

War proves little other than stupidity in most cases.

dave3004

I don't blame the armed forces who urinated on the Taliban.

These guys are brainwashed into having a narrow, myopic view on the world, on war and on their country.

I've met hundreds of these lads and believe me when I say, you will not meet anyone more stupid. They are completely brainwashed and I feel sorry for all the young underpriviledged Americans who see the army as the best route to a salary

Deus Ex Machina

Christ, this is war. Some soldiers releaving themselves all over some corpses probably came in towards the back end of the top 100,000 disturbing things that happened over the course of the day's fighting. Of course it's horrible, the whole thing is horrible by its very nature, isolating this and getting your g-er in a twist over it is absurd.

LighterGuy

I think anyone who takes a serious offense to what those soldiers did needs to re-evaluate what their understanding of 'War' is.

I agree with what MrStuffins said earlier. Which was met with a response of him "condoning" :rolleyes:

To those type of people I say step back, step beyond what those soldiers did and look at the bigger picture (War) ... then take a hard look. Then ask, was it really shocking what they did. Knowing everything else.

Manic Moran

dave3004 wrote: »

I don't blame the armed forces who urinated on the Taliban.

These guys are brainwashed into having a narrow, myopic view on the world, on war and on their country.

I've met hundreds of these lads and believe me when I say, you will not meet anyone more stupid. They are completely brainwashed and I feel sorry for all the young underpriviledged Americans who see the army as the best route to a salary

I also have met hundreds of these individuals. (By now, thousands).

There is no doubting that they have huge nationalistic pride to the extent that it is perceived as a superiority complex by non americans, and that they are firmly convinced of the righteousness of their cause, but it is far from saying that they are 'stupid.' Certainly some don't think their actions through, the Marines in question right now are a perfect case in point. But you can find that in any population.

As an aside, what is your opinion on the non-underprivileged Americans who make a disproportionately large portion of the US military? Or do you just like using broad brushes?

NTM

Lone Stone

At first when i saw it i thought to myself thats disgusting have they no morals, And then i thought about all those taliban attacks on market places and blowing up men women and children because they were bored or what ever so basically i came to the conclusion they are both dick heads and we should leave them to it.

Local-womanizer

Poor American Army, getting blamed for something the Marines have done!

Anyway, this is an isolated incident, if you think about the number of Coalition troops in Afghanistan right now who refrain from pissing on dead bodies.

Bad apples are present in every walk of life.

The nature of war brings out the worst in some people, and with the way things are nowadays the most isolated incident is exposed and used to beat the objective that is being fought for to death, in this case a safer environment for the Afghanis.

It seems you never hear of the good things ISAF are doing in the country, of which there are many, like facilitating in the education of children through the building of schools and securing the immediate area so the Taliban are not beheading teachers or throwing acid in a young girl's face because she wants to learn, to helping farmers with crops by introducing and teaching them new farming methods and putting in place an infrastructure such as better irrigation.

The longer ISAF are in country the better it is for the Afghan people, I hate to think what the Taliban will do when ISAF leave.

dave3004

Manic Moran wrote: »

I also have met hundreds of these individuals. (By now, thousands).

There is no doubting that they have huge nationalistic pride to the extent that it is perceived as a superiority complex by non americans, and that they are firmly convinced of the righteousness of their cause, but it is far from saying that they are 'stupid.' Certainly some don't think their actions through, the Marines in question right now are a perfect case in point. But you can find that in any population.

As an aside, what is your opinion on the non-underprivileged Americans who make a disproportionately large portion of the US military? Or do you just like using broad brushes?

NTM

Disagree with the emboldened text above.

Reason: African-Americans make up 16% of the civilian population of military age but 22% of the Army’s enlisted personnel, the ACLU notes. It charges bluntly: “The U.S. military’s practice of targeting low-income youth and students of color in combination with exaggerated promises of financial rewards for enlistment, undermines the voluntariness of their enlistment…”

ascanbe

Manic Moran wrote: »

I also have met hundreds of these individuals. (By now, thousands).

There is no doubting that they have huge nationalistic pride to the extent that it is perceived as a superiority complex by non americans, and that they are firmly convinced of the righteousness of their cause, but it is far from saying that they are 'stupid.' Certainly some don't think their actions through, the Marines in question right now are a perfect case in point. But you can find that in any population.

As an aside, what is your opinion on the non-underprivileged Americans who make a disproportionately large portion of the US military? Or do you just like using broad brushes?

NTM

How do you feel about the actions of the people in the video in question?
I only ask that of you because i know that you are, or were, through your posts here, connected to the U.S. military
You rightly, and understandly, come to defense of those who signed up for the military in the US, in the face of those who may dismiss them as simply ignorant or lacking options; ironically, as it happens, a slur that could be leveled at, or an explanation for the choice made by, young men who find themselves fighting for the Taleban in Afganisthan.
Focusing purely on this case though, does that video sit well with you? People pissing on corpses?
Are you uncomfortable with that morally, or even, on a purely utilitarian level, in terms of how it reflects on the institution you represent?
Or is everything defensible as long as it's carried out by those wearing the same uniform as you?

Standman

In war where the moral line of everday life is not just blurred but completely thrown out the window, it's a lot easier for this kind of thing to happen. In that way I think it's understandable, but it doesn't make it any less disgusting and saddening. The way people can dehumanise other people to such an extent that they laugh while they urinate over the corpses of those that they have just killed. Yea I know it's war and all that, but nobody can deny it's fúcked up.

seanybiker

Shouldn't be there in the first place anyways.