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reasonable force against burglars

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    #2
    Funfair
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Funfair


    I guess the Guy with the hammer was a day too early :D


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    #3
    membersonly
    Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭membersonly


    I want to know billythepigs opinion on this. I'd say he's in favour of it.


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    #4
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    membersonly wrote: »
    I want to know billythepigs opinion on this. I'd say he's in favour of it.


    Do you see something wrong with it?


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    #5
    membersonly
    Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭membersonly


    Oh I do yes, big fan of burglars.


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    #6
    dark_shadow
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭dark_shadow


    membersonly wrote: »
    I want to know billythepigs opinion on this. I'd say he's in favour of it.

    You can be sure he'll give Monica a mention somehow in this thread too:D


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    #7
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,369 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    shebzie wrote: »
    Hi all has anybody seen this its suppose to be coming into force tommor 13\01\2012

    http://m.brne.ws/ireland/new-law-allows-use-of-reasonable-force-against-burglars-535660.html
    Actually, all it seems to do is change the existing common law concepts into statutory ones. The overall situation doesn't really change.

    You may use reasonable force. You may not plan to kill any person entering your property.


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    #8
    ex_infantry man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ex_infantry man


    ooooh lovely!!!! the ball is in our court now, i,ll be having the cloroform riddled cloth at the ready and handcuffs


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    #9
    dark_shadow
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭dark_shadow


    I wasn't waiting for some law to come in to protect me from protecting my own home or family!! If someone broke in I'd do whatever I had to do....law or no law. Seems like less work for the Gardai to do when (and if) they arrive at the scene and the burglar is already lying on the floor for them, after me baiting the shyte out them with a baseball bat or whatever is handy.


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    #10
    ex_infantry man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ex_infantry man


    dark_shadow wrote: »
    I wasn't waiting for some law to come in to protect me from protecting my own home or family!! If someone broke in I'd do whatever I had to do....law or no law. Seems like less work for the Gardai to do when (and if) they arrive at the scene and the burglar is already lying on the floor for them, after me baiting the shyte out them with a baseball bat or whatever is handy.
    too true!!!


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    #11
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    ex_infantry man wrote: »
    ooooh lovely!!!! the ball is in our court now, i,ll be having the cloroform riddled cloth at the ready and handcuffs

    You mean that hasnt been allowed until now??
    ...............Oh dear >_>


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    #12
    ex_infantry man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ex_infantry man


    The Great Chinholio wrote: »
    You mean that hasnt been allowed until now??
    ...............Oh dear >_>
    yeah but it would have landed you in district court being sued by the fella that just stole your ps3 and 42" telly lol


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    #13
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    Are knuckle-dusters legal, and are available for sale in Waterford?

    They are my preferred choice for home defence.


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    #14
    membersonly
    Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭membersonly


    ex_infantry man wrote: »
    ooooh lovely!!!! the ball is in our court now, i,ll be having the cloroform riddled cloth at the ready and handcuffs

    Bring in the gimp?


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    #15
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    dayshah wrote: »
    Are knuckle-dusters legal, and are available for sale in Waterford?

    They are my preferred choice for home defence.


    I don't think so.

    Better off with a good hurley or an iron poker.


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    #16
    A Country Voice
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭A Country Voice


    Hi guys,

    This is the act.
    I havent seen notification of when its coming into force though.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0035/sec0002.html#sec2


    ACV


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    #17
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,369 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Commencement of this act is via ministerial order.

    http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR12000003
    Minister Shatter announces commencement of Criminal Law (Defence and the Dwelling) Act 2011

    The Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence, Mr. Alan Shatter T.D., today announced that the provisions of the Criminal Law (Defence and the Dwelling) Act 2011 will come into effect on 13 January, 2012.

    The Criminal Law (Defence and the Dwelling) Act 2011 clarifies the law concerning the defence of the home. It recognises in a very practical manner the special constitutional status of a person’s dwelling and makes it clear that a person may use reasonable force to defend themselves in their home. It allows for the use of such force as is reasonable in the circumstances, to protect people in the dwelling from assault, to protect property, to prevent the commission of a crime, or to make a lawful arrest. The Act also extends the protections it contains to the curtilage of the dwelling, it explicitly provides that a person is not under an obligation to retreat from their home when subject to an intrusion in their home and provides that a person who uses reasonable force, as provided for in the Act, cannot be sued for damages by a burglar and will not be guilty of an offence.

    Making this announcement the Minister said "I am very pleased to announce the commencement of this Act. The first recourse of any householder faced with an intruder, and where the circumstances permit, should of course be to contact An Garda Síochána, who are best placed to deal with offenders and to investigate criminal offences. There has previously been a lack of clarity in relation to the rights of a householder who discovers a burglar in their home, which is now resolved by the introduction of this legislation. The Act recognises the rights of householders to use reasonable force to defend themselves from intruders unlawfully in their home."

    The Criminal Law (Defence and the Dwelling) Act 2011 is available on the website of Houses of the Oireachtas www.oireachtas.ie

    12 January 2012

    ENDS


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    #18
    seanybiker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,898 ✭✭✭✭seanybiker


    Victor wrote: »
    Actually, all it seems to do is change the existing common law concepts into statutory ones. The overall situation doesn't really change.

    You may use reasonable force. You may not plan to kill any person entering your property.
    May not plan it, same way as you can't plan a burglary. At worse it should be involuntary manslaughter
    In reality if someone breaks into your house and you hit them and they die then you should get a blue Peter badge.
    K I done a tiny bit of Kickboxing years ago. Dlofnep has being training in a few different combats for years.
    If it went to court, would dlofnep get a harsher sentence for being trained in fighting or what? There's to many ifs or buts to be honest.


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    #19
    Adyx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,997 ✭✭✭Adyx


    seanybiker wrote: »
    May not plan it, same way as you can't plan a burglary. At worse it should be involuntary manslaughter
    In reality if someone breaks into your house and you hit them and they die then you should get a blue Peter badge.
    K I done a tiny bit of Kickboxing years ago. Dlofnep has being training in a few different combats for years.
    If it went to court, would dlofnep get a harsher sentence for being trained in fighting or what? There's to many ifs or buts to be honest.
    If it's in defence of yourself or your home, neither of ye should be even charged regardless of what training ye have.

    Look at that girl in America last week, shot 1 of 2 intruders who were threatening herself and her baby. What happens? The other guy gets charged with accessory to the first guys murder while she isn't charged at all. Proper fucking order if you ask me.


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    #20
    Heathen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭Heathen


    I am very happy this is happening.. Happy to know that if some scumbag decides to break into my house and put my family at risk that i can beat him to a bloody pulp without fear of being sue'd over it :-)

    In my opinion, a intruder gives up his rights to anything once he enters my house without my permission.

    That being said, i have always kept weapons beside the bed anyway so it would not have stopped me before, just nice to know i wont be doing more time than the scumbag!

    H


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    #21
    old gregg
    Registered Users Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭old gregg


    as an Australian, I look forward to an oportunity to say to a burglar "that's not a knife, this is a knife" :p


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    #22
    Icky Thump
    Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Icky Thump


    i knew that chainsaw during the christmas sales would come in handy:D

    "Hey Flanders, come over here for a minute."


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    #23
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,369 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Heathen wrote: »
    I am very happy this is happening.. Happy to know that if some scumbag decides to break into my house and put my family at risk that i can beat him to a bloody pulp without fear of being sue'd over it :-)
    You're not familiar with the word "reasonable" then?


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    #24
    abouttobebanned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭abouttobebanned


    I wish they had've done this with less of a media fanfare.

    The burglars will just arm themselves better when robbing your home


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    #25
    Heathen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭Heathen


    Victor wrote: »
    You're not familiar with the word "reasonable" then?

    Is he robbing my house with reasonable force? Was reasonable force used to open the door/window he got in through?

    Believe me, when this guy wakes up he wont remember what house he grew up in, nevermind what one he broke into :-)

    My family is more important to me than any law.. Id rather break the law to keep my family safe than obey it and bury a family member.

    H


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    #26
    Oink
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 2,158 Mod ✭✭✭✭Oink


    "It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it" Call of Duty General MacArthur

    "Do or do not - there is no try" Confucius Yoda


    To summarize, if you're going into a fight trying to be nice, good luck to ya, and send us a postcard.


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    #27
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    As said above, you were always allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself and your property, just now they have a specific act which covers it.

    But the key here is reasonable. Reasonable means that you can defend yourself/family/property by using equal force to the burglar, ie: if he has a stick you can't use a knife, if he has a knife you can't use a gun, etc...

    So for those who are saying they would beat them to a bloody pulp, you need to be sure that during that beating the burglar is always trying to attack you. When he stops, you have to stop. Keeping in mind forensics can prove a lot nowadays (blood spatters, etc).

    I'm all for, and actively encourage, people to defend themselves/family/property, but going that one step too far will still land you in a load of trouble.

    @dayshah: knuckledusters are 100% illegal. You'd get jail for having them (under the Firearms Act), as is pepper spray, extendable batons, or anything which you can't say that you have the item for a specific reason, be it sports or work related. Hurleys are the best item to have, every house in Ireland is expected to have them.


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    #28
    spookwoman
    Registered Users Posts: 9,925 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    Once some tries to break in they forfeit their rights, have no sympathy if they get beaten to a pulp or end up dead they made the choice to break in.
    Repeat offenders should get their hands cut off like they do in saudi.


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    #29
    ex_infantry man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ex_infantry man


    was listening to ray darcy show on today fm earlier and a fella text in and said "A fella broke into my house and we broke his two arms and beat the **** outta him the gardai said to put in the statement that he fell down the stairs"


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    #30
    thund3rbird_
    Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭thund3rbird_


    "reasonable" force may come down to what the intruder had in his hand - or what YOU THOUGHT HE HAD ;)


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    #31
    giles lynchwood
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭giles lynchwood


    I think I'll set up a cleaner business,like the one in pulp fiction.With all these burglars that are going to be killed,there would be an opening for a service to collect and dispose of the body and clean the house of all forensic evidence.Will check with enterprise board to see if i am entitled to a grant before i go ahead.


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