29 month old toddler unable to poo - ongoing for 2 years

patg

Our toddler has a serious inability to pass solid waste.
This has been investigated by umpteen professionals - public and private, GP, surgeon, X rays....
He has been unable to go properly since he was only a few months old.
Using Paediatric Movicol he is regulated to some degree (every 3-4 days) worringly this is lengthening out again.
He has been tested for allergy, coeliac... we have tried every dietary adjustment.
Hirshsprungs condition has been ruled out...
When he actually does go it is normally extremely upsetting for him.
He has actually potty trained himself about 4months ago and did this with minimal to zero encouragement - purely a potty being left in the room for him to get used to - and seeing other children in creche... We had hoped this would help resolve, but no.
X rays have showed that on occasion there is actually no fecal matter left in an extremely distended stomach - only gas, however this doesn't expel quickly and before any time the residue has built up again.

It seems all our medical professionals are at a loss, cannot resolve and are hoping this will self cure. We cannot leave this for perhaps another 6/12/24... months to sort itself.

Has anyone had similar experience?
Did anyone use osteopath / homeopath in similar circumstance?

Any ideas or suggestions would be gratefully received - it seems all avenues we have investigated to now are reaching dead ends.

(Sorry for the essay length post - but I think all the information is relevant. Help really would be hugely appreciated.)

lynski

Distressing situation i imagine. I don't have firsthand experience of this, however your situation brings to mind the position a friend of mine is in with their almost 4 yr old. He says that he refuses to go, but i am wondering now if your lad is refusing or his lad is unable.
He says that despite all known forms of potty training his little lad will not do a poo, just waits it out.
Sorry, I cant help, but at least you know you are not alone, I will be interested to see any responses.

caprilicious

If all physical causes have been ruled out, is it possible it may be psychological?
Sounds odd, but when I worked in childcare one of the children around the same age had the same problem.
Unfortunately I don't know how it was resolved ultimately as I didn't work with that age group and left the nursery soon after.

I do recall the cause at the time being linked to a period when the child had been constipated and the straining had caused a tear/fissure in the back passage which in turn caused more pain when the child passed solids.
As a result, the child would often hold in their poo for days on end as she was scared of the pain passing solids would cause.

It was a vicious circle, as holding the solids was causing cramps and impaction, plus when the child did have to pass them she was very distressed.

As far as I'm aware they did use some form of laxative or stool softener and a reward chart for the child when she did pass solids.

I hope you find some resolution soon.

samina

We had a with our son for many years, right from his very first poo.He still gets like that sometimes now but very rarely. May be nothing like your situation but this is our experience. Like you went down every route and nobody could help. What worked for us right up until he was old enough to do it himself (4 or 5 years old) was to hold his legs apart. It may sound silly but when he was a baby we noticed he was clenching. He was holding it in, he had connected the poo coming out with pain and. Every time he felt it coming he held it in and cried, it could go on for days. We used to hold his legs wide apart when it was coming and he'd be fighting to get his legs together to keep it in and it always worked after a couple of goes. When he was old enough he used to call me in when he had the problem and ask me to hold his legs. He's fine now also I know a few other people whose children had similar poo problems and they all grew out of it around school going age

patg

Thanks guys for your replies.

Its a worry - research on the subject (other posts/boards) and also what the doctors have said confirms this is a hugely widespread issue, and sadly one that there is not an effective response to.

Also there are different symtoms or details. Our boy definitely can't go - not being a case of not wanting to go.
He actually had some success on Saturday but this was after an episode lasting approx 30 mins for him of sitting on the toilet putting in huge effort, really - really trying. It is quite a trauma for him and when he was younger he used to fall asleep immediately after as a response to the trauma.

We know of other children who refuse to go and withhold however this does not seem to be the case with our boy.

Although our perception is that this is a physical issue, we'll have to monitor and see if there might be psychological / subconcious reasons.

What is most worrying is the medical opinion and also experiences advised by other people that this is something that just has to be left to resolve itself - other boards talk of 6/7/8 year olds still dealing with this problem. There is too much pain and upset involved for that to be acceptable but we don't know what sort of medic can resolve this.

Thanks again for your inputs and anyone else's ideas would be welcome - particularly if they came across some solution in their own experience.

Queen of Sheebs

Have u tried acupuncture?

patg

Queen of Sheebs wrote: »

Have u tried acupuncture?

Hi QoS.
No, we never thought acupuncture might be used.

Have you heard of it being used in instances of bowel trouble before, also on as young as a 2 year old?

I'm doubtful we'd get our boy to co-operate and lie still. Needles....

lynski

patg wrote: »

Hi QoS.
No, we never thought acupuncture might be used.

Have you heard of it being used in instances of bowel trouble before, also on as young as a 2 year old?

I'm doubtful we'd get our boy to co-operate and lie still. Needles....

what a great idea! may not even be needles. I know a guy who i know used to treat his own children, talk to Dave, no harm in it and he is a good, good guy.

http://www.dan-tien.com/ tell him lyn sent you

Queen of Sheebs

I'm not sure if it could help but it wouldn't hurt to ring an acupuncturist and have a chat. A friend brought her 2 boys for their asthma...they were about 3 and 7 at the time. I'm in galway and there is a really good acupunture clinic in oranmore. Also have you looked into herbs? S*an B*ylan in Meath has a great reputation for herbs. In terms of foods that help relieve constipation/ regulate bowel movements...I find psyllium seeds excellent....just add to a yogurt (health shop) or dried figs and appricots. I have IBS and I've been though all the tests too with no answers...i've been prescribed movicol which was worse than useless...lactose...no good...i could go on. In the end i went into a health food store locally...(the owner is very helpful and knowledgable) and he advise the psyllium seeds. They were the only thing that gave me any relief. It takes a few days and trial and error on the quantity to see results but if taken daily it really made a difference for me. Hope some of what i said here helps.

Morpork

patg wrote: »

Hi QoS.
No, we never thought acupuncture might be used.

Have you heard of it being used in instances of bowel trouble before, also on as young as a 2 year old?

I'm doubtful we'd get our boy to co-operate and lie still. Needles....

Hi patg,

my girlfriend is an acupuncturist and physio and masseuse. She showed me her acupuncture set for children called "Shonibari" (children's needle). Here is a picture.


She gave me a demonstration just now and you can't feel anything. The needles never pierce the skin. Though they aren't really needles per se. The one between the roller and the pick is spring loaded and others have bells.

Here's a video demonstration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W87kDYvQG6Y

She also recommends a massage on the stomach which would stimulate the movement in the bowels.

If you want more information on it or want to talk to her directly let me know.

Good luck.

xzanti

My friends 3 year old had this problem for a long time.. He would only poo for her if he was put into a warm bath..

She took him to a Chiropractor and he seemed to solve the problem..

Good luck

de Faoite_girl

Hi OP,

My daughter of 27 months is facing the same issue.

She has NEVER been able to poo on her own, without Movicol since she was born.

GP, health nurse and consultants kept telling us all along that this would sort itself out when she would start crawling, then they said when she would start walking.

Now aged 2+, she is obviously walking and running, goes to the Creche but the problem is still ongoing.

She would go about once a week only or every 4 days if we give her enough Movicol.

When she goes, it is extremely painful. She can be blocked up for 8 days. Last time it happened we ended up taking her to A&E as she was so in pain. She kept pushing like mad but nothing would happen. She would push so hard she would vomit through the nose. It breaks my heart.

Currently, she hasn't gone for 3 days, which is not "bad". When she is pushing, we have noticed that she tends to hide actually. She doesn't like us watching her push.

She can spend 4 days pushing like mad, with Movicol, while nothing would be happening.

Problem we are facing now is that the Movicol is wearing off and does not work well anymore. We used to give her half a sachet per day but now even one whole sachet won't do.

I don't even know if we will be able to potty train her.

She has had no invasive test or anything other than GP/paediatric consultant visit as we have been told that she is too young, that they can't do anything further before she is 3.

A colleague of my hubby said thy had he same problem with their son. Turns out they had to enlarge is rectus or bowels as they were too narrow to pass stools. He is apparently now doing very well.

It might be a new avenue to explore for your little one and my daughter. But nothing can't be done before they are 3 again from what I was told...

Let me know if you find anything that would work.

We have tried/explored diet, allergies, getting rid of dairy, baby massage... But nothing works.

I was recently told of a homeopath who specialises in constipation (based in Cork). Haven't tried it yet but will keep you posted if I do.

I'm open to keeping in touch if you will for support and all. This just breaks my heart, seeing my little one go through so much pain...

Nat

de Faoite_girl

Forgot to say - like you, my little one definitely does not hold it in, she wants to go and is pushing for ages. Not a case of the child being afraid to go. She just can't physically go...

Belly massages didn't work for us either... We keep doing it but to no avail.

Queen of Sheebs

I think there is another supplement called slippery elm that helps to soften the stool and regulate bowel movements. As I said above I found the pysllium seed excellent....I was desperate....i was going to resort to colonics to help ease the situation....(not for detox which is their purpose) but the supplement worked. It costs less than €5 and would be worth a try.

Annabella1

I find some of these posts disturbing+ this child is two years of age.one poster is advocating an acupuncture kit which looks like an ancient Torture kit.there is zero scientific evidence that acupuncture can treat constipation in a child.sticking needles in a 2 yr old -are u f++++ serious?
Another poster advocates using herbal materials which are completely untested in children and potentially harmful.
This poster has the good sense to attend a properly qualified health professional.the main advice I would give you is to attend a paediatric dietician and ensure movicol dose is correct(children grow and the dose is based on weight).
I appreciate that it is distressing to see your little toddler in pain but please don't make things worse by attending a quack. Best of luck

BaBaBluesheep

OP..has your little man been seen by a paediatric gastroenterologist?(not paeds surgeon)if not, might be worth getting a referral for one.

zinzan

xzanti wrote: »

My friends 3 year old had this problem for a long time.. He would only poo for her if he was put into a warm bath..

She took him to a Chiropractor and he seemed to solve the problem..

Good luck

+1 for this

leitirmeas

Hello this could be the same condition my son has, it is called encopresis. They hold in their poo, the movicol softens the poo so they cant hold it in, it is not a laxative. My son is 6 and this has been going on since he was potty trained, he used to hold it in for up to 12 days at a time. Thanks to the movicol and a lot of little chats he is now going every 2-3 days or more frequently. It is gradually getting better. It is a psychological issue, normally caused by a poo early on hurting them and then they develop a fear of that happening again. So they hold it in. My doctor has been great but it took a couple of years before I went to her and I wish I had done before, you can google it. According to figures about 1 in 8 children are affected. This may not be the reason for other children but this is relevant to my boy. Anyway hope this info helps the OP. Or anyone to be honest , its very stressfull and I wish I had known what it was earlier on.

scwazrh

My daughter used to suffer from this as well. we spent so many nights in A&E because of the pain she was in.She used to scream in pain and curl up in a ball crying.We had loads of tests done and got told pretty much that she would grow out of it.We kept taking different foods out of her diet to see which food might be causing it. Eventually we stopped giving her baby milk formula and gave her full fat cows milk in her bottle, there was no constipation problems after that.Maybe it was a coincidence but as soon as we stopped the milk formula she was fine.
When my son started suffering from constipation we immediately stopped giving him milk formula and again he was fine within days

January

Have you explored the possibility that the anus might be too small to actually pass the poo? When I was younger I had the same problem, there was actually talk of admitting me into hospital to stretch my anus (yes, I know, TMI but...).

I don't know what happened, must ask my parents actually, but it didn't need to happen in the end. I notice even now that sometimes it's very painful when I'm passing a bowel movement but it's easier for me to get over the psychological part of it though, because I know that as soon as I go the pain stops, bit harder for the child though.

de Faoite_girl

Yes, it seems that in some cases the anus might be too tight alright. As I said, an acquaintance of ours had their son undergo such a procedure but they won't do it to kids under 3.

Will try the homeopath in the meantime. Am a bit fed up of all the consultant peadiatricians telling us she will grow out of it.

Getting rid of dairy products hasn't worked for us either.

patg

Thanks to everyone who has contributed on this thread.
The ideas and input really are food for thought, and exactly what I was hoping for as all avenues to this point had hit brick walls.

Its definitely not a milk issue for us. Our boy transferred over to cows milk ages ago but this had no impact. We have had tests also for dairy allergy amongst others which returned negative.

We did see gastroenterologist and are still on that roll. We are due to have a follow up in Feb but this has yielded nothing so far.

Its not encopresis which I researched - I think this is a psychological condition - refusal. our problem is physical - inability.

As for the actual equipment just being too small, well thats something me and my wife have been thinking about for a while, although when raised its not something our doctors have given much time before. Should the problem not resolve its something we may have to take by the scruff of the neck again.

Thanks Annabella for your caution. I must admit my reaction to the photo was similar to yours. The youtube clip shows that the treatment is more of a massage than a needle course though. We too are cautious about non standard medical practices - but believe me when you have been seeing distress like that - and over such an everyday routine - which has been going on for so long, AND when it appears that all normal medical avenues are exhausted then we have to at least consider alternatives...

In any case, as an update - I wrote the post last Friday night and following that my son has had success on 5 out of 6 days. We've had a LOT of false dawns over the past few years but even this level of regularity is absolutely unheard of. Fingers crossed this may continue.

Thanks again to all contributors.

de Faoite_girl

OP, that's brilliant! Fingers crossed indeed... Let us know how you get on. Will be back posting here myself if any progress made.

alie

Just a thought , have you tried a lubricating gel, to aid the passing, I had a fissure and used fybogel twice a day. Drank plenty of water too, I know its different for a baby but I would pursue it further with your gp.

Queen of Sheebs

Apologies if my comments/suggestions were deemed inappropriate.

patg

No QoS. Your comments were not inappropriate.

It was with that exact hope - of getting a variety of suggestions that I posted the thread in the first place.

Thanks again for your contribution. It has certainly been received in the spirit it was given, and we'll definitely be giving full consideration to anything that helps our child whether it be psyllium seed, acupuncture, or anything else...