Meteor Nightmare

ozbourne

Can anyone help me please! Last October Meteor took money out of my account via a paperless direct debit and are still trying to take out more even though I have no contract with them. I have emailed and phoned them countless times, on a couple of occasions holding for an hour costing me 15euro each time. I have notified my bank about the situation and they say there's nothing they can do about paperless direct debits unless I catch it in time on the day to stop it which of course isn't always possible if it happens over a weekend for instance. When I have got through to Meteor they say they'll get the relevant person to ring me back but they don't.

I was wondering if there's anyone else out there that this has happend to and some advice on what to do.

foggy_lad

ozbourne wrote: »

Can anyone help me please! Last October Meteor took money out of my account via a paperless direct debit and are still trying to take out more even though I have no contract with them. I have emailed and phoned them countless times, on a couple of occasions holding for an hour costing me 15euro each time. I have notified my bank about the situation and they say there's nothing they can do about paperless direct debits unless I catch it in time on the day to stop it which of course isn't always possible if it happens over a weekend for instance. When I have got through to Meteor they say they'll get the relevant person to ring me back but they don't.

I was wondering if there's anyone else out there that this has happend to and some advice on what to do.

If meteor are taking money from your account you should go into your bank immediately instead of ringing them and tell them you have not authorised any payments to meteor as you have no business/dealings with them and demand they immediately refund the amount to your account! your bank must do this as you arre their customer and they must follow all your instructions concerning your account. They can't ask you to sort something out with meteor or any other company which you have no business with!!! Also if there is any direct debit on your account you can have that cancelled by your bank immediately.

Now from the way you have posted I am thinking there may be more to this which you have not mentioned like you do or did have a contract with meteor but there is some dispute? Even if this is the case then under the terms of the direct debit scheme which meteor have signed up to meteor must not put through any debits for disputed amounts and your bank must refund any such amounts within 24hours.

lala88

i get the feeling to we're not be told the whole story hear. You say it cost you €15 when you called Meteor, thats strange seeing as there customer care is free to call.....

ozbourne

Yes, I was once a customer with Meteor up until June 2010 - but switched to another company as I was getting a much better deal. This is how Meteor had my bank account details. Meteor phoned me and offered me a new Smart phone and 35euro per month pacakage if I switched back to them with the option to cancel within 14 days.

I then received a USED Smart phone in the post with a letter saying the package was 45 euro per month. I rang them immediately and told them I was furious to be sent a second hand phone and lied to about the monthly amount and told them I certainly was not going to agree to a contract where I got a secondhand phone and was charged more than I was originally quoted. I did not agree to anything or sign anything. The phone was sent back and that was it or so I thought until a couple of weeks later an invoice arrived in the post for two months payment. This amount was taken out of my account without my persmission and even though I had gone into the bank to cancel any direct debits made by Meteor. I was misinformed in the bank because when I asked the bank would Meteor be able to take money out of my account - they said no as I had cancelled it. They were wrong, apparently with paperless direct debits they are powerless to stop them. Meteor used my bank details that they had obviously stored from a year and a half before.

I went to see the bank manager before Christmas as I was worried Meteor would try over the holidays to take more and he said there's nothing any bank can do about paperless direct debits. I managed to argue the point that I was misinformed by the bank so he did say he would speak to head office to try and refund me the original amount that was taken out.

This week I received an invoice for 4 months payment and so far it hasn't been taken out of my account but I have to keep watch on it.

How do I get through to Meteor to stop this?

ozbourne

lala88 wrote: »

i get the feeling to we're not be told the whole story hear. You say it cost you €15 when you called Meteor, thats strange seeing as there customer care is free to call.....

It was an 1890 phone number I was given by a member of the customer care team when I rang them to complain I had been sent a second hand phone. I wasn't aware that this particular number would cost me 15euro per hour until I saw my bill as I can tell you I wouldn't have stayed on hold for that length of time if I had known.

foggy_lad

ozbourne wrote: »

Yes, I was once a customer with Meteor up until June 2010 - but switched to another company as I was getting a much better deal. This is how Meteor had my bank account details. Meteor phoned me and offered me a new Smart phone and 35euro per month pacakage if I switched back to them with the option to cancel within 14 days.

I then received a USED Smart phone in the post with a letter saying the package was 45 euro per month. I rang them immediately and told them I was furious to be sent a second hand phone and lied to about the monthly amount and told them I certainly was not going to agree to a contract where I got a secondhand phone and was charged more than I was originally quoted. I did not agree to anything or sign anything. The phone was sent back and that was it or so I thought until a couple of weeks later an invoice arrived in the post for two months payment. This amount was taken out of my account without my persmission and even though I had gone into the bank to cancel any direct debits made by Meteor. I was misinformed in the bank because when I asked the bank would Meteor be able to take money out of my account - they said no as I had cancelled it. They were wrong, apparently with paperless direct debits they are powerless to stop them. Meteor used my bank details that they had obviously stored from a year and a half before.

I went to see the bank manager before Christmas as I was worried Meteor would try over the holidays to take more and he said there's nothing any bank can do about paperless direct debits. I managed to argue the point that I was misinformed by the bank so he did say he would speak to head office to try and refund me the original amount that was taken out.

This week I received an invoice for 4 months payment and so far it hasn't been taken out of my account but I have to keep watch on it.

How do I get through to Meteor to stop this?

You need to get back on to meteor by letter not phone and tell them as they did not fulfill their promise to you over the new smartphone and monthly rate, you therefore considered the verbal contract null and void, You then returned the smartphone to them which was you rejecting the new contract under the promised 14day cooling off period. You should advise them to review the contract call for the detail of what you were promised!

You must tell them all this in a letter or an email and use the heading "Formal Complaint" and send a copy of the letter or cc the email to ComReg.

You must also request in the letter an mp3 copy of the contract call from them as the call where you agreed to the new deal will have been recorded or there is legally no contract.

In this call you should be able to hear them promising you the new smartphone as well as the new rate of €35pm and also the 14day cooling off period.

Post
Meteor Mobile Communications
1 HSQ
St John's Road
Dublin 8
Fax
Send us a fax to:
1800 200 480

ozbourne

foggy_lad wrote: »

You need to get back on to meteor by letter not phone and tell them as they did not fulfill their promise to you over the new smartphone and monthly rate, you therefore considered the verbal contract null and void, You then returned the smartphone to them which was you rejecting the new contract under the promised 14day cooling off period. You should advise them to review the contract call for the detail of what you were promised!

You must tell them all this in a letter or an email and use the heading "Formal Complaint" and send a copy of the letter or cc the email to ComReg.

You must also request in the letter an mp3 copy of the contract call from them as the call where you agreed to the new deal will have been recorded or there is legally no contract.

In this call you should be able to hear them promising you the new smartphone as well as the new rate of €35pm and also the 14day cooling off period.

Thanks very much for your help! I will try that.

Max Power 2010

When they sent out the phone you entered into a contract with them, that's fine sending the phone back but you also have to write to or call them to cancel the contract otherwise they will continue to try Direct Debit the monthly commitment every month.

Also there 1890 number is 15 cent per call.

Millicent

Max Power 2010 wrote: »

When they sent out the phone you entered into a contract with them, that's fine sending the phone back but you also have to write to or call them to cancel the contract otherwise they will continue to try Direct Debit the monthly commitment every month.

Also there 1890 number is 15 cent per call.

He did call and told them he wasn't entering a contract with them.

Is it somewhat ironic that the best way to contact a phone company is by letter?

spannerotoole

It is also possible that someone else is using his bank details to transact business with meteor. It does happen and the best way to combat it, is to inform your bank that you do not currently have any dealings with a provider, also check the bill to see if there is another number on it that is different to your current number, on a meteor bill it is on page 3 usually (Summary of charges page) at the top left, third line down in the orange bar.

If this number is different, inform them that the phone has been "stolen" you don't have the IMEI Number but as you have been verified this is not an issue, they should be able to brick the phone (from being used as a phone) and ensure that they do this. Or, you can bring that bill to your local garda station, where they can do all sorts of wonderful things like finding the phones location, finding out who actually has the phone et al. I would recommend this course of action because if you do not show that you have done something legally, it could negatively affect your credit rating.

Do this to get a crime reference number so that meteor cannot back down (They actually tell you to get a crime reference number as then they can brick the phone remotely when this is obtained.)

Of course, if meteor are just debiting money from your account, you can always ask the financial regulator and comreg what your options are.

ozbourne

Max Power 2010 wrote: »

When they sent out the phone you entered into a contract with them, that's fine sending the phone back but you also have to write to or call them to cancel the contract otherwise they will continue to try Direct Debit the monthly commitment every month.

Also there 1890 number is 15 cent per call.

Why would I bother telling lies about how much the calls cost? When I did get through to someone in Meteor no one wanted to deal with it they kept passing the buck and on one occasion I was given a number for a complaints section in Metoer and these calls DID cost me 15 euro a time. I was ringing from my mobile and only noticed it cost this much when I got my bill in, otherwise I certainly wouldn't have kept holding. As I keep saying Im NOT a customer of Meteors I am with another company.

dub45

Let’s get this right - firstly your bank are behaving disgracefully in this case. And it is extraordinary that a Bank Manager should say that they are powerless to stop Meteor or anyone accessing your account. Are customers’ accounts sitting ducks for Companies to drain as they wish in the eyes of Bank Managers? Incredible!!!

ozbourne wrote: »

I went to see the bank manager before Christmas as I was worried Meteor would try over the holidays to take more and he said there's nothing any bank can do about paperless direct debits.

ozbourne wrote: »

I have notified my bank about the situation and they say there's nothing they can do about paperless direct debits unless I catch it in time on the day

This is factually incorrect and absolute nonsense and a complete abdication of responsibility on the bank's part not to mention an excellent example of the lack of training of bank staff. Personal banking is not a matter of "chance" or at least shouldn't be.:eek:

Your bank has a responsibility to protect the integrity of your account (unfortunately this responsibility has been lost sight of with the onslaught of electronic payment and easy access to customers’ accounts).

http://www.ipso.ie/section/YourRightsasaPayer

You can request your bank to refuse a direct debit payment on your account up to close of business the day before the direct debit is due to be paid from your account

From previous postings on boards.ie this entitlement appears to present practical problems for bank branches but that is their problem and not yours.

When you think about it all direct debits are in a sense "paperless" they all hit our accounts via electronic transmission after all.

So here beginneth the first lesson:

There are two categories of direct debits.

The "traditional" method where you sign a paper mandate and forward it to the company concerned who note the payment details and then forward the signed mandate to your bank who then have a physical record of it. Incidentally under this method you are entitled to 14 days advance notice of the billing date.

The second method (and this is what your bank are referring to as the paperless one) is ironically enough referred to as "direct debit plus" - never was anything more wrongly named - as you can see it causes chaos for the bank branches but this does not excuse their shocking attitude to you.

Under this method you usually "sign up" over the phone, or on the net (but you can also sign a paper mandate too) but details are not transmitted to your branch so they have no record of the existence of the dd except that it hits your bank account every month.

So you see when you raise a query with your branch they are confused. I don’t know how this system ever was allowed past the accountants/auditors etc. Even an intelligent child can see the flaws in it. (and by the way the default notice under this method is only seven days).

If a system causes chaos for banks why do they operate it at all??

And now the second lesson. Contrary to what some companies believe (and sadly some bank staff) signing a dd mandate does not give a company open season on your bank account and by participating in the dd system a company agrees to comply with the rules of the scheme.

http://www.ipso.ie/section/section/ObligationsofaDirectDebitOriginator

Obligations of a Direct Debit Originator

Ensure that direct debits are collected in line with the customer instruction and the Direct Debit Scheme Rules

Ensure that a Direct Debit Instruction form that complies with the Direct Debit Scheme Rules is used

Provide advance notification to customers in accordance with the Direct Debit Scheme Rules

Now what I suggest is that you firstly read this:

http://www.ipso.ie/section/YourRightsasaPayer

With particular reference to this:

If it is established that an unauthorised direct debit was charged to your account, you are guaranteed an immediate refund by your bank of the amount so charged where you notify your bank without undue delay on becoming aware of the unauthorised direct debit, and in any event no later than 13 months after the date of debiting of such direct debit to your account

And this

You can cancel the Direct Debit Instruction by writing in good time to your bank

Then do the following:

Visit your bank and ask to speak to a senior person and seek an explanation as to why they have allowed irregular access to your account in the light of their obligations under the direct debit scheme. Seek an immediate refund of all payments to Meteor from your account.
Give them a written cancellation notice of any or all dds which Meteor may claim to have on your account. (Purely for the record)

Tell your bank that you will be making a formal complaint about their complete failure to preserve the integrity of your account and request a copy of the Bank’s complaints procedure.

Ring IPSO (01 6636740)(www.ipso.ie) and ask to speak to the direct debit scheme manager (even though his name is in the public domain via the IPSO website and via newspapers he has requested me to refrain from giving it on boards.ie as I have previously to people with similar problems so draw your own conclusions about that!!!)

Make a formal complaint to him about Meteor's behaviour.
Make a formal complaint about your own bank’s failure to protect your interests and their appalling lack of knowledge of their obligations under the dd scheme.
Make it clear to him that you will expect to see copies of all correspondence between ipso and those concerned. After all IPSO are now supposed to be acting on your behalf so they should be only too willing to show you what transpires in the complaints process?

Make a formal complaint to Comreg about Meteor's behaviour.

And we all need to remember that accessing a person's bank account without permission is highly irregular and some might call it theft!

The sooner the better we get back to calling taking money without permission THEFT the better for all of us.
The sad thing is that under the dd scheme no matter what a company does nothing happens to them.

Now imagine if a hacker was to break into Meteor's bank accounts and take as little as a fiver as a prank?

By the way in view of this:

ozbourne wrote: »

Yes, I was once a customer with Meteor up until June 2010 - but switched to another company as I was getting a much better deal. This is how Meteor had my bank account details

There are more than likely data protection issues involved in this case please see this case and consider making a complaint to the Data Protection people.
http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?m=&fn=/documents/caseStudies/01cs4.htm

And two final thoughts for the day: (from the dd scheme rules)

Trust and the Direct Debit
The essence of such an arrangement is that of the total integrity of and trust in the Scheme. All
Participants must work together to ensure that such integrity and trust is maintained.

And the responsibilities of our banks which many of them do not appear to know about!

Paying Banks:

• must adhere to the Rules of the Scheme
• must put in place processes which will ensure that unauthorised, refused and/or cancelled Direct Debits are intercepted and returned immediately on presentation
• must promptly present indemnity claims arising under or pursuant to the Scheme
• must assist its customer, to the extent practicable, in the resolution of disputes arising under or pursuant to the Scheme
• must inform the Sponsoring Bank if an Originator is not adhering to the Rules of the Scheme

dub45

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it somewhat ironic that the best way to contact a phone company is by letter?

Sad but true. A formal letter means that the issues are recorded and you have a record of what has been put to the company. In the event of any disputes it is a good thing to have a "paper trail" of what transpired between you and the company.

dub45

Max Power 2010 wrote: »

When they sent out the phone you entered into a contract with them, that's fine sending the phone back but you also have to write to or call them to cancel the contract otherwise they will continue to try Direct Debit the monthly commitment every month.

Also there 1890 number is 15 cent per call.

No company has any right to "try direct debit" anything!!

They either have a properly authorised direct debit or they don't - it is that simple.

And remember a direct debit has nothing at all to do with the contract it is simply a method of paying a bill.

dub45

ozbourne wrote: »

................ This amount was taken out of my account without my persmission and even though I had gone into the bank to cancel any direct debits made by Meteor. I was misinformed in the bank because when I asked the bank would Meteor be able to take money out of my account - they said no as I had cancelled it. They were wrong, apparently with paperless direct debits they are powerless to stop them. Meteor used my bank details that they had obviously stored from a year and a half before.



How do I get through to Meteor to stop this?

I decided to post separately on this aspect as I believe everyone should be made aware of an extremely serious flaw in the dd system and indeed the banking system.

Under the dd system you should be able to cancel a dd:

http://www.ipso.ie/section/YourRightsasaPayer

You can cancel the Direct Debit Instruction by writing in good time to your bank

However while you can instruct you bank to cancel a dd in reality it is impossible to cancel any dd with any assurance that it will not be submitted again by the company concerned. The banks have no system in place to autodetect and reject a cancelled dd!!!! (and this applies to both types of dd as described above in my earlier post)

A dd can be resubmitted and paid apparently by changing a digit. This is quite extraordinary and I was very slow to believe it when I first read reports of it on boards.ie. I have written to IPSO about it and they have confirmed that it is the case. So the statement on the IPSO website is misleading at best to put it very charitably as most people reading it would of course believe that cancellation would mean with finality.

From what I can establish when you cancel a dd the banks are depending on the Company concerned not to resubmit it.

Given that any cancellation of a dd explicitly withdraws permission from the company concerned to access your account or to use the information you have given them in association with the dd setup, you would expect that any subsequent submission of that dd to your bank would be treated avery seriously indeed. "Attempted theft" as a description of such an action might even occur to a reasonable person, particularly as a direct debit cannot be submitted to a bank accidentally. Then there is the question of the misuse of personal information provided in the setting up of the original dd.

Well you would be very wrong. I asked IPSO if they had sought legal advice in respect of such behaviour and they told me that they hadn't! Now again any reasonable person would expect a body such as IPSO to be very clear on such matters no? And to err on the side of caution in establishing the legality of any action? And even if attempting to access a person's bank account without permission wasn't illegal it surely is an act that would raise very serious concerns about the integrity of such a company and their suitability for continued participation in a scheme based on trust?

(For any doubters I have this in writing)

A reasonable person might also expect their bank to report any such "irregular" access to a customer's bank account to the Gardai. A reasonable person would be very wrong.
Banks' staff I have spoken to and reactions of bank staff recounted on here suggest that they have lost all appreciation of the seriousness of such behaviour on the part of companies.

The simple fact is that in relation to electronic payments (and associated dp issues) Companies can and do behave with impunity with little or no regard for the law of the land or "regulations" of schemes they sign up to. The evidence is visible on a daily basis here on boards.ie

We have sleepwalked into an appalling mess in relation to electronic payments systems where our bank accounts are wide open to access and there appears to be no one at all to represent the consumers entitlements. And it is only going to get worse!!

dub45

foggy_lad wrote: »

You need to get back on to meteor by letter not phone and tell them as they did not fulfill their promise to you over the new smartphone and monthly rate, you therefore considered the verbal contract null and void, You then returned the smartphone to them which was you rejecting the new contract under the promised 14day cooling off period. You should advise them to review the contract call for the detail of what you were promised!

You must tell them all this in a letter or an email and use the heading "Formal Complaint" and send a copy of the letter or cc the email to ComReg.

You must also request in the letter an mp3 copy of the contract call from them as the call where you agreed to the new deal will have been recorded or there is legally no contract.

In this call you should be able to hear them promising you the new smartphone as well as the new rate of €35pm and also the 14day cooling off period.

Some good information here on any request for personal data held:

http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Accessing_Your_Personal_Information/14.htm

padraig.od

Could the OP make a claim for credit interest on the money meteor took from him?