Cheap meat for fresh fed dog owners

DogsFirst

I've noticed that Tesco have recently put a large freezer in most of their stores right as you walk in where they have their half priced meat. Is this new? I saw large whole chickens half price- €2 per kg!!

If this is a new thing this is an excellent source for meat ingredients for the dogs dinner. You could essentially be feeding your average dog (18kg) fresh chicken for €1 euro a day, or the same as a cheaper bag of dry priced €30, for 15kg of meat flavoured crackers!!!


Other ideas for cheap ingredients:

Fish Factories: Buy in bulk (10kg of frozen mackerel for half nothing)

Butcher Factory Outlets: Buy your rashers and sausages from them and they'll keep off cuts, let you know when food is approaching "sell by", bones etc


Anyone got any more?!

TooManyDogs

I'll have to keep an eye in my tesco. They do pork liver for €3 a kg which is the cheapest I've seen liver

Dublin meat company do chicken legs at €2 a kg

Being veggie is a major disadvantage for me, hard to have a good relationship with the local butcher. A friend of mine always gets something thrown in for the dog when she's buying her meat

westies4ever

my dogs are small so its not terribly expensive for me - i buy chicken drumsticks/thighs/legs/wings from lidl - around €2.60 a kg - 3 packs a week enough to feed my two.

planetX

TooManyDogs wrote: »

I'll have to keep an eye in my tesco. They do pork liver for €3 a kg which is the cheapest I've seen liver

Dublin meat company do chicken legs at €2 a kg

Being veggie is a major disadvantage for me, hard to have a good relationship with the local butcher. A friend of mine always gets something thrown in for the dog when she's buying her meat

same here, being veggie I always have a look of disgust on my face when I venture in to a butchers. I also don't have a clue what to ask for, or how to cook stuff. I bought chicken livers for my cats and after I'd cooked them they wouldn't even taste:(

Actually if someone here could tell me how you cook chicken thighs it would be great - I boiled them and ended up with the most unbelievable smell, and mess of fat - ruined the saucepan. Do you take off the skin first?

DogsFirst

Funny stuff! If you're cooking for dogs you could save yourself a lot of time just giving them raw, far better, lots of lovely chicken bones (never cooked). Raw chicken skin is where it's at nutritionally for carnivores. Easy. There has never been one instance of a human contracting a disease from a fresh fed dog (when there has for dry fed dogs) so you're safe enough there.

If you have to cook then use the oven instead of boiling. 20mins per lb of meat is a good average for human consumption but the parasites are nothing to do the dog.

Also re cats, really picky eaters as you know but just because they wouldn't eat it says nothing of their "choice" of food. It's all about experience with cats and dogs. You can rear dogs on plant protein and they won't eat any meat. You can rear 'em on meat and they won't touch plant. But variety (by mother through amniotic fluid then milk) then fed to pups / kittens in first 2 months of life develops their food selection, these animals will eat a variety. In fact you can even make rat kittens select a certain nipple coated in say lemon juice by exposing the mother to a strong lemon smell while pregnant! Interesting stuff. It's all to prevent pups from eating the wrong stuff when they're older.

Start your cat on liver by cooking the liver in a little oil, maybe throw in a little garlic and salt, and for the first few days you just add a drop or two of the oil on their crackers. Then you mush up one bit of meat and mix it in with the food, then a tiny bit more. Slowly slowly catchy monkey. Spend two weeks doing changeover. Or start on tuna in brine and just use the brine. Aim to be on raw by three weeks. This gives their systems time adjust and reduces the likliehood of the animal barfing and people jumping to the conclusion that the animal 'doesn't like meat".

Vince32

I'm no expert, but I am studying for the day I make the switch to cooked / raw for my girl.

This is one of the first instructional videos I watched, there are dozens more have a browse when you have some free time. The wierd thing is, he feeds his dogs what I have for dinner 3 times a week lol

http://youtu.be/QZcJE7RJ_jY

DogsFirst

I turned it off as soon as I heard his annoying voice saying his annoying domain name!!! Sure it's good though!

Vince32

well... lol yeah haha

it's just a video on cooking for a dog, I never said it was pleasant :P, I think someone on these boards was about 1/2 way through making a video for us, about the whole process last month, but it's hard to know if they got around to finishing it.

I do remember him saying about the ratio, chicken (giblets out), veggies, stewed, so you end up with 70% meat, 20% veggies, and 10% bone, and then just divide up the "result" into meal sized portions, in plastic containers, and when cooled, just freeze them.

Feed one to the dog, take the next one out of the freezer. Spend 1 day, or one weekend making enough for a week or a month.

DogsFirst

Vince32 wrote: »

well... lol yeah haha

it's just a video on cooking for a dog, I never said it was pleasant :P, I think someone on these boards was about 1/2 way through making a video for us, about the whole process last month, but it's hard to know if they got around to finishing it.

I do remember him saying about the ratio, chicken (giblets out), veggies, stewed, so you end up with 70% meat, 20% veggies, and 10% bone, and then just divide up the "result" into meal sized portions, in plastic containers, and when cooled, just freeze them.

Feed one to the dog, take the next one out of the freezer. Spend 1 day, or one weekend making enough for a week or a month.

That mighta been me!! I've actually made a few videos around the subject, just finishing them now but not videos of me doing stuff. Not a great fan of cameras despite exceedingly pleasant on the eye (ahem). I promise I will do it within 30 days. Will let you know when they're ready.

But I didn't say anything about cooking the meat and bone. Really important that one. Never ever feed cooked bones. It dissolves the soft collagen out leaving hard brittle bone. And cooking destroys the enzymes, pre and probiotics in meat, makes it less digestible and reduces the biological value in general. I think the guy in the video was cooking his. I'd cook the veg to destroy the fibre, like for humans, which lets us get at the good stuff. I can make enough for the month in 40 mins now, has taken half a year to get it that tight though!! Mutt meat making machine.

Vince32

Well it will be good to have a guide from an experienced dog owner, rather than some jerk promoting his site.. lol

Looking forward to seeing it m8, as I'm sure other posters are.
Thanks

chris139ryan

havent noticed the big freezer in tesco but will keep an eye out next time im there, sounds great though

DBB

Here's where I throw an ethical spanner in the works.... Sorry!
I feed my dogs fresh, and I'm a meat eater, but one who is only happy to eat meat from animals who have lived a reasonably good life. I struggle... Really struggle, with eating cheap chicken because I know those hens lived a miserable life. So I just don't/can't eat it.
However, buying this meat for my dogs is obviously much cheaper, but... I still have the same ethical struggle, as I'm still supporting a method of food production that I am repulsed by.
So, short of spending big money on free range chicken, my dogs are limited to beef, lamb and fish. And some very occasional pheasant or duck which has been shot for our plate.

TooManyDogs

DBB wrote: »

Here's where I throw an ethical spanner in the works.... Sorry!
I feed my dogs fresh, and I'm a meat eater, but one who is only happy to eat meat from animals who have lived a reasonably good life. I struggle... Really struggle, with eating cheap chicken because I know those hens lived a miserable life. So I just don't/can't eat it.
However, buying this meat for my dogs is obviously much cheaper, but... I still have the same ethical struggle, as I'm still supporting a method of food production that I am repulsed by.
So, short of spending big money on free range chicken, my dogs are limited to beef, lamb and fish. And some very occasional pheasant or duck which has been shot for our plate.

Half of the diet I feed mine is bones and I get them from the butcher's who would throw them out as waste so I figure I'm not adding to factory farming demand, rather doing a bit of recycling, similar with the fish heads I get from the fishmongers. I guess "cheap ethical" meat is always going to be an oximoran, I feed the best I can afford and console myself with knowing the chances of any of the meat in commercial dog food isn't likely to be sourced ethically anyway so by recycling waste, using my own homegrown veg and free range eggs I'm doing the best my small budget can afford

mickmcl09

Just out of interest. Those of you that are feeding raw to dogs, what percentage of their total diet makes up meat? Do you feed completely raw for say 3 days and dry food/other food for the other 4 OR do you feed raw for 1 or 2 feeds per day and an alternative for the 2nd/3rd meal?
I've introduced some raw to my fellas diet gradually over the last while and I'm just wondering how far I go with a raw diet as he loves it.

DBB

mickmcl09 wrote: »

Just out of interest. Those of you that are feeding raw to dogs, what percentage of their total diet makes up meat? Do you feed completely raw for say 3 days and dry food/other food for the other 4 OR do you feed raw for 1 or 2 feeds per day and an alternative for the 2nd/3rd meal?
I've introduced some raw to my fellas diet gradually over the last while and I'm just wondering how far I go with a raw diet as he loves it.

Fresh food 100% of the time here, no dry food at all. I feed 70%ish meat (bones making up a lil bit of this), 20% mixed veg, 10% spuds.
They're fed 3 times per day, to a bit over 3-4% body weight.

TooManyDogs

mickmcl09 wrote: »

Just out of interest. Those of you that are feeding raw to dogs, what percentage of their total diet makes up meat? Do you feed completely raw for say 3 days and dry food/other food for the other 4 OR do you feed raw for 1 or 2 feeds per day and an alternative for the 2nd/3rd meal?
I've introduced some raw to my fellas diet gradually over the last while and I'm just wondering how far I go with a raw diet as he loves it.

Only raw here, I feed 50% meaty bones (have got decent meat left on them), 15% offal, 15% veggies and 20% meat, mine get between 2 and 5% of their body weight depending on the dog. The 2 JRTs get 5% and I've a fat ass lab x who gets 1.75% or similar.

Sigma Force

Those cheap chickens are generally battery farmed so if people can afford to it's best to by free range.

Dunnes generally sell free range chicken drumsticks and wings for cheap enough. Also check Tescos around 5-6pm in the evenings when they are putting stuff that's sell by date is the next day (sometimes it's that day but sometimes it's within 2 days) they sell meat for sometimes half price.

Sometimes I get free offal from the butchers, liver and esp. kidney (stinks if you cook it) generally need to be used on day of purchase and they usually have plenty. Thinks like ears and feet could be a cheaper option too, although more fatty than more expensive cuts probably better than supermarket dog foods.

The Sweeper

DogsFirst wrote: »

Start your cat on liver by cooking the liver in a little oil, maybe throw in a little garlic and salt, and for the first few days you just add a drop or two of the oil on their crackers.

No garlic near cats thanks.

Raw garlic has been shown to be toxic to cats. Raw garlic, onions and chives are proven to destroy red blood cells in cats and if added to food over a prolonged period can cause haemolytic anaemia. Best just never to give them a taste for it at all.

Less is more if you want to feed cats raw - so muck around with it less and get more results.

Start your cat on liver by getting a very fresh piece of lamb's liver, cutting a fine, long sliver off it and putting it down on a clean dish and offering it to your cat.

Don't cook meat you offer to your cat - cooking destroys taurine, a vital amino acid that cats need to live. Taurine is present in muscle meat - e.g. cheap stewing steak, or hearts.

DogsFirst

The Sweeper wrote: »

DogsFirst wrote: »

Start your cat on liver by cooking the liver in a little oil, maybe throw in a little garlic and salt, and for the first few days you just add a drop or two of the oil on their crackers.

No garlic near cats thanks.

Raw garlic has been shown to be toxic to cats. Raw garlic, onions and chives are proven to destroy red blood cells in cats and if added to food over a prolonged period can cause haemolytic anaemia. Best just never to give them a taste for it at all.

Less is more if you want to feed cats raw - so muck around with it less and get more results.

Start your cat on liver by getting a very fresh piece of lamb's liver, cutting a fine, long sliver off it and putting it down on a clean dish and offering it to your cat.

Don't cook meat you offer to your cat - cooking destroys taurine, a vital amino acid that cats need to live. Taurine is present in muscle meat - e.g. cheap stewing steak, or hearts.

It's only large quantities of raw garlic that'll do that yeah?!. The active ingredient is present in tiny quantities in garlic, small amounts are great for the blood, immune system and for parasite control in dogs and cats. Have refs if you need 'em

The Sweeper

Aye, and I have references that show that garlic has flimsy evidence to support it as a parasitic control agent so I'd refute the idea that it's "great" for the blood.

Cats' livers are not good at eliminating toxins - not a good a a dog's liver and nowhere near as good as a humans. Cats have limited taste buds and are strongly scent-driven and can become 'obsessed' with a few foods, so I just wouldn't give them garlic at all in the first place. There's no need for it - overwhelmingly they prefer their foods raw. In controlled studies when cats were offered a variety of foods they tended to gravitate towards what they actually needed to survive at a really micro level - they would smell their foods and gravitate to what had the amino acids they needed and so on. When free fed they consumed parts of each offered food to a point that balanced their requirements for protein, fat, amino acids, calcium etc.

Additionally there is limited scientific evidence that garlic is an effective parasitic control agent. Manufacturers of Vets All Natural, a product designed to be mixed with raw meat and fed to animals to balance out their diet (for those worried about feeding raw and achieving the right balance) - invested in scientific research for their product and recommend garlic in concentrations for cats of less than a quarter of one percent of the volume of their food, which is a truly miniscule amount that I think most home-remedy makers wouldn't be able to replicate at home and would subsequently end up overdosing their pet.

Try this brief of a report by the National Research Councl of the National Academies in Washington on supplementing of lutein, evening primrose and garlic in cats, dogs and horses:

http://dels.nas.edu/resources/static-assets/materials-based-on-reports/reports-in-brief/satety_of_dietary_supplements_final.pdf

(Note that the committee could not establish a PSI (presumed safe intake) for garlic in cats.)

There are a number of university studies that demonstrate that there is little scientific evidence to support the claim that garlic is effective in flea and tick prevention. So really, garlic, the chance of overdose is high, the negative effects are subtle and catastrophic, the scientific evidence of effectiveness is limited and needs further study, and I just don't see why you'd give it to your pets.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11108195 <-- why you don't give garlic to dogs (controlled study)

DogsFirst

Hey great refs, thanks for them, will digest and be back. I wouldn't cook any meat for cats or dogs at all, it was just a simple way of getting cats on to new foods, using the oil. Will dig out the refs for garlic and blood and immune function. Wasn't too hung up on the parasite side of things myself but natural vets certainly are. Your refs put it in question though, good work!

scudzilla

I always check the section in Tesco where they sell meat off approaching it's sell by date.

This morning i picked up a pack of Sirloin Steak (Down from 9.80 to 2Euro) & 2 packets of organic minced beef (down from 4.95 to 1 euro)

Earlier this week i picked up 2 packets of Finest Pork Sausages, 10 Sausies in each pack, down from 5.50 i think to 1 Euro.

With the steak i'll just cook it a little, add some past and rice and a bit of grave and that'll do her for 2 nights

DogsFirst

The Sweeper wrote: »

Aye, and I have references that show that garlic has flimsy evidence to support it as a parasitic control agent so I'd refute the idea that it's "great" for the blood.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11108195 <-- why you don't give garlic to dogs (controlled study)

This study is more an investigation of overdose and bears almost zero relevance to good nutritional health. These researchers fed four dogs 5g/kg of raw garlic a day for seven days!!! That is a standard lab eating 150g (or far more than a yoplait yoghurt in weight) of raw garlic a day. This is quite a jaunt from one clove of garlic in feed of meat now and again. For a dog to develop Heinz-body anemia, he would have to eat over 0.5% of his body weight in onions to even begin the danger process (so say one whole onion) and since red blood cells are constantly regenerated from the bone marrow, a dog would likely need to ingest much more every day to do harm. And that's onions. Garlic contains far far less Allicin so you're talking a lot more garlic. So a cat would have to eat many cloves a day, which is definitely not a good idea alright.

To avoid taking the thread off course I've pm'd you 35 studies that to date linking garlics benefits to hypotension (relaxing blood vessels), antioxidant activity and ability to reduce cardiovascular diseases (hence "good blood") as well as it's antimicrobial activity, anticancer activity, improving immune functions and anti-diabetic activity. All peer reviewed scientific studies, most of which investigate moderate doses and, most importantly, over time. Having worked with both sides I'm converted anyway, natural docs (human or vet) are rarely wrong on things they're been prescribing for millenia.

The key is dose, little bit, now and again, major advantage, likes lots of stuff. Maybe there's stuff on cats I'm missing, if you have any info would be obliged.

DogsFirst

scudzilla wrote: »

pack of Sirloin Steak (Down from 9.80 to 2Euro)

Bloody hell! That was some find! Lidl also do reduced priced meat the day before it's due to go off (found in their meat section and not the little section they lay aside for going off dairy etc, I sound like such a cheap skate!). But they only go down to 30% off, which isn't great compared to the some of the prices in Tesco. Going to ask my butcher will he keep going off meat, doubt it.

Irishchick

Just to say that I wouldn't give the pork sausages to your dog. Sausages tend to be highly processed so Id give them a miss.

Also you need to be careful that you are giving the dog a balanced diet. Once or twice a week include a can of sardines in unsalted water. This will give the dog/cat its EFA and DHA. Some people give cod liver oil but the levels of DHA in packaged fish oils isnt high enough.

DogsFirst

Irishchick wrote: »

Just to say that I wouldn't give the pork sausages to your dog. Sausages tend to be highly processed so Id give them a miss.

Also you need to be careful that you are giving the dog a balanced diet. Once or twice a week include a can of sardines in unsalted water. This will give the dog/cat its EFA and DHA. Some people give cod liver oil but the levels of DHA in packaged fish oils isnt high enough.

Thumbs up +1million. Worse still, dry food employs veg oils (which are cooked by the extrusion process) which, asides being denatured (and say 6mths old by the time you get it, then the bag is left sitting open for a month, and fats hate oxygen), are too high in omega 6 for carnivores, throwing the whole omega 3:6 ratio thing out. Natural oily fish (mackerel, sardines, herring), absolutely cant beat it for perfect protein and fats.

dahat

Heart meat is classed as a muscle meat rather than organ meat for RAW fed dogs.
Lamb hearts and Beef hearts can be bought bought pretty cheap and a fantastic addition to any RAW diet.Just recently i have sourced a supply for Pork hearts though only now and again the lazy bugger comes with them for me!

DogsFirst

Don't forget to freeze those pork hearts to -16 for more than 3 days. This destroys pork parasites. While dogs are great at all other raw meats todays pork industry has some things in it that will lay your dog out (these particular worms eggs are resilient to ph1 in the dogs stomach, remarkable really) as they're relatively new. Because of this step I tend to avoid the hassle and go for other hearts, but these are pricier.

TooManyDogs

dahat wrote: »

Lamb hearts and Beef hearts can be bought bought pretty cheap and a fantastic addition to any RAW diet.

I'm struggling to find hearts cheap I have to say, they're working out about €5/kg which is more expensive than alot of other meats

What price do you get them at per kg?

dahat

Currently pay 50 cents per heart,10 hearts for 5.50 but another shop in town has them at 1 euro per heart!:eek:

Beef hearts are 4.00 per heart,Pork ones work out at 20 euro for a large bag of them,never actually counted them but alot of them there plus a brain or 3 too!

DogsFirst

Irish beef and lamb prices are through the roof altogether and now we're exporting all the organs too. Drives the prices sky high. Chicken is half the price and with the skin and bone included, far better nutritionally. More bang for your buck