Sockets in kitchens, not in bathrooms

Thoie

Don't worry, I'm not about to start putting electrical sockets randomly into bathrooms, but something just struck me.

We're always warned about the danger of having anything other than shaving sockets in bathrooms, because water and electricity don't mix. However there is a double socket bank in my kitchen within reach of the sink. Thinking of many other kitchens, a lot of the ones that come to mind have sockets within an adult's arm length of the sink.

Do people go mad and start flinging electrical goods around in bathrooms, but suddenly behave themselves in kitchens?

TheBadBadger

Thoie wrote: »

Don't worry, I'm not about to start putting electrical sockets randomly into bathrooms, but something just struck me.

We're always warned about the danger of having anything other than shaving sockets in bathrooms, because water and electricity don't mix. However there is a double socket bank in my kitchen within reach of the sink. Thinking of many other kitchens, a lot of the ones that come to mind have sockets within an adult's arm length of the sink.

Do people go mad and start flinging electrical goods around in bathrooms, but suddenly behave themselves in kitchens?

Bathroom

Because in the normal house the bathroom is the most dangerous room in the house. An electric shock in a bathroom is often fatal. Nearly every year someone is electrocuted in a bathroom because of breaches in the wiring.(ETCI.IE)

Kitchen

Must sockets be mounted away from sinks?
A: There is no specified distance given in the Wiring Rules. Common sense would require that they are not mounted where the sockets or connected appliances can be splashed from the sink or taps (ETCI.ie).

However BS 7671 states "ideally should be installed 1000mm away from the sink. In many instances this is impractical and where this is the case 300mm is a minimum cceptable distance."

It boils down to the simple fact that the occurrence of splash or ingress of steam is much higher within the zones of a domestic bathroom.

If the guidelines are followed regarding a kitchen, this is unlikely to happen.

Thoie

So steam is really the main difference, as in most bathrooms it would be possible to have the socket a meter away from water sources?

copacetic

Steam, condensation, humidity in a small room. Most surfaces are consistently warm and damp and often people are barefoot and wet themselves.

kelbal

its a bit ironic that the most power hungry device in the house is in the bathroom - the electric shower, 9Kw of power and steamy water in close proximity! You want to be sure that's installed & wired correctly!

Bruthal

kelbal wrote: »

its a bit ironic that the most power hungry device in the house is in the bathroom - the electric shower, 9Kw of power and steamy water in close proximity! You want to be sure that's installed & wired correctly!

The kw loading of the device will have zero bearing on the shock potential.

If it had a 1 amp MCB or a 63 amp one, the shock received would be identical. The actual current flowing through the device has no effect on the shock received.

The RCD on it is the protective device against electric shocks but only from live to earth, which is the only likely path if a shock was received from a shower with its cover on.

Solair

Well, unless you've a very unusual cooking style, you normally do not stand in a pool of water in your bare feet while spraying yourself with water.

That makes the bathroom very dangerous compared to the kitchen.

Thoie

Solair wrote: »

Well, unless you've a very unusual cooking style, you normally do not stand in a pool of water in your bare feet while spraying yourself with water.

Have you been spying on me?;)

Merch

If its so unsafe, why are they common in countries outside Ireland/UK?

Have seen sockets in bathrooms in the US, and Europe in apartments and hotels??
Are they so far behind us? or are we behind?

Solair

British and Irish quirks. With RCD protection its permitted in most countries except Ireland and the UK. The electrical regulations here always took a very strict approach to bathrooms, then completely contradicted themselves by allowing electric showers...

RCDs were not required until the 80s in Ireland and only became compulsory in Britain in the most recent regulations. They've been required elsewhere in Europe for a much longer time.

We tend to follow British practice, so bathroom regulations are particularly strict.

Bruthal

Solair wrote: »

The electrical regulations here always took a very strict approach to bathrooms, then completely contradicted themselves by allowing electric showers...

Its probably not that big a contradiction with showers though, with the RCD requirement (which sockets also have), but a shower is a fixed appliance designed for use in bathrooms, and sealed from any contact with live parts.

Showers at first did not need an RCD though, but a properly earthed shower without an RCD should be safe, but the RCD makes them very safe, even if the earth to it was broken. So a properly earthed shower with RCD is very safe.

A socket is a little different, because its not only the socket that is a concern, it is the endless portable appliances which can be plugged into them, no matter what condition the appliances may be in. And with few ever regularly testing their RCD`s, its best not having sockets in bathrooms.

Solair

Even so, it's at odds with every other regulatory system on the planet pretty much

I suspect there's a bit of "traditional" thinking involved somehow.

Also, safe as they might be, electric showers are not sealed. Their IP X4 rating is only "splashproof"

ronan45

I was In thailand last year and no joke there was an electricity socket In the shower. The people there didnt seem to be aware how dangerous it was. The faulty shower head dripping on it didnt help. I kept well back from it

Solair

It's normal though in countries with relatively excellent safety e.g. all of Scandinavia, Germany, France, the United States etc etc.

Bruthal

Solair wrote: »

Even so, it's at odds with every other regulatory system on the planet pretty much

I suspect there's a bit of "traditional" thinking involved somehow.

Also, safe as they might be, electric showers are not sealed. Their IP X4 rating is only "splashproof"

When i say sealed, i dont mean waterproof. Sealed from easy contact with live terminals. If you get a socket with no RCD, and plug in an electric heater on the floor, it will be a lot more dangerous than a properly earthed shower with no RCD on it.

If they both have RCDs which obviously they should, a decent shock can still be recieved from the socket appliance, but extremely unlikely in a shower.

Solair

Even so, there does not seem to be thousands of people being killed by bathroom sockets in other countries with similarly high standards of wiring.

It's quite normal to dry ones hair in the bathroom in France, Germany, Scandinavia, the USA, Canada etc etc. and nobody seems to get zapped on a regular basis.

I suspect that our regulations reflect the old requirements before RCD protection was normal.

I would actually be quite concerned that most existing (pre recent revision to the regs) bathrooms in Ireland have a lot of fittings that are not RCD-protected at all i.e. light fittings, shaver socket fittings and also mirror lights which are often just on a 6 or 10amp circuit without any shock protection at all.

It's easy enough to touch a faulty light on the wall or a mirror backing which could easily be live.