Can you really be a "good" driver?

Scanlas The 2nd

The way some people talk about their driving abilities one would think they are F1 drivers. In my eyes you can either drive the car the way you are supposed to or you can't. You are either a standard driver or below standard. How can you be above standard?

CamperMan

easy!

Minstrel27

Of course you can be a good driver. Good does not mean above standard.

IM0

I suppose you have to understand what it takes to be an F1driver in order to make the comparison.

Sheeps

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

The way some people talk about their driving abilities one would think they are F1 drivers. In my eyes you can either drive the car the way you are supposed to or you can't. You are either a standard driver or below standard. How can you be above standard?

Yes you can be a good driver. If you understand the physics of driving, the limitations of a vehicle, make good decisions on the road and approach driving with safety in mind.

Racing is a different kettle of fish altogether, which involves obviously a lot higher risk and is more focused on understanding of the limitations of the car, having balls to drive at the edge of those limitations and being in great physical condition and driving skill at this level is more observable.

IM0

Sheeps wrote: »

Yes you can be a good driver. If you understand the physics of driving, the limitations of a vehicle, make good decisions on the road and approach driving with safety in mind.

these especially will elevate you greatly, but you can be 'too' safe though and overcautious

Scanlas The 2nd

Sheeps wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

The way some people talk about their driving abilities one would think they are F1 drivers. In my eyes you can either drive the car the way you are supposed to or you can't. You are either a standard driver or below standard. How can you be above standard?

Yes you can be a good driver. If you understand the physics of driving, the limitations of a vehicle, make good decisions on the road and approach driving with safety in mind.

I'd call that driving the everyone is supposed to. That's nothing for anyone to brag about.

cul-2008

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

The way some people talk about their driving abilities one would think they are F1 drivers. In my eyes you can either drive the car the way you are supposed to or you can't. You are either a standard driver or below standard. How can you be above standard?

Above standard is driving with a cup of coffee in one hand, the phone in the other, knees doing the steering while trying to read the paper coming up to an amber light at Newlands Cross. Simples.

Sheeps

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'd call that driving the everyone is supposed to. That's nothing for anyone to brag about.

A lot of people don't understand the physics behind driving though and think that their cars are on rails. This problem becomes much larger in the wet and in other more dangerous weather conditions.

bleg

Most Irish drivers are crap and have no idea how to drive on a motorway or dual carriageway.

Insect Overlord

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'd call that driving the everyone is supposed to. That's nothing for anyone to brag about.

Nobody is bragging. You can be good at something without bragging about it.

It's like being a good speller. Nobody notices it, and everybody is supposed to have learned how to do it properly, but you'll still notice a lot of people making silly mistakes every day.

Mr. CooL ICE

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

How can you be above standard?

By being Jason Statham

Scanlas The 2nd

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Sheeps wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

The way some people talk about their driving abilities one would think they are F1 drivers. In my eyes you can either drive the car the way you are supposed to or you can't. You are either a standard driver or below standard. How can you be above standard?

Yes you can be a good driver. If you understand the physics of driving, the limitations of a vehicle, make good decisions on the road and approach driving with safety in mind.

I'd call that driving the everyone is supposed to. That's nothing for anyone to brag about.

Thread title shoul have bee along the lines of "is it really possible to brag about your abilities as a driver. Surely it's only possible to have driving skills worthy of disparagement and not compliments.

mikom

"I'm an excellent driver"

IM0

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'd call that driving the everyone is supposed to. That's nothing for anyone to brag about.

true to a point but you brought up an F1 driver, so do you understand what it takes to be a bog standard F1 driver? I think you probably have a simplistic view of what it entails and Im not talking about the athletic training involved or anything like that.

Sheeps

Sebastian Vettel can brag about his driving skills.

Capt'n Midnight

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

The way some people talk about their driving abilities one would think they are F1 drivers.

Technically speaking since an F1 car doesn't have reverse, I'm way better than them at 3 point turns and parking

bleg

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Technically speaking since an F1 car doesn't have reverse, I'm way better than them at 3 point turns and parking

Some of them do/did.

44leto

Like:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Everyone knows its everyone else who is a bad driver, that is even written somewhere in the rules of the road.

I am a good driver in that I am at it a long time and I am never bothered to speed or be impatient.

I was never in a serious accident but I am experienced enough to know this is more down to luck then driving ability.

wolf moon

Being a good driver? It's simple:

- use your mirrors and be aware what's going on around
- be aware of other vehicles
- know what you want to do and where are you going
- indicate
- turn lights on when the visibility is low
- learn how to use the reverse
- don't suddenly go dead slow just because you are taking a turn
- when there are no cars in front of you and very few behind you, don't suddenly stop on a straight road (60kph+) just because you want to be kind to another driver and let them out of their premises/etc..
- use your brain ALWAYS
- don't be afraid to accelerate, sometimes it may save your ar5e as much as braking.

Nothing to do with F1 skills to be honest - it's rather common sense and lack of ignorance in my opinion. Pity it's sooo rarely seen on Irish roads.

policarp

If there are bad drivers there has to be good drivers, for comparison. . .

af_thefragile

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Technically speaking since an F1 car doesn't have reverse, I'm way better than them at 3 point turns and parking

Who needs to do 3 point turns when you can do power slide turns...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9gqHcURsHE

Raladic

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

The way some people talk about their driving abilities one would think they are F1 drivers. In my eyes you can either drive the car the way you are supposed to or you can't. You are either a standard driver or below standard. How can you be above standard?

I'd say there are bad drivers, average drivers and good drivers.

Bad drivers never indicate, act irrational and are a safety risk for others or always stay on the second lane.

Average drivers make some mistakes but can drive their vehicle safely in general.

Good drivers know their vehicle and can drive it efficiently (e.g. not using brakes unless neccesary, instead using the motor brake), know what the merrit of winter tyres is (heat up faster, thus better grip) and don't try to go for pedestrians or cyclists.

Nissan doctor

Raladic wrote: »

I'd say there are bad drivers, average drivers and good drivers.

Bad drivers never indicate, act irrational and are a safety risk for others or always stay on the second lane.

Average drivers make some mistakes but can drive their vehicle safely in general.

Good drivers know their vehicle and can drive it efficiently (e.g. not using brakes unless neccesary, instead using the motor brake), know what the merrit of winter tyres is (heat up faster, thus better grip) and don't try to go for pedestrians or cyclists.

Thats rubbish IMO. If I know every rule of any sport, does that mean that if I play it, I will win?

Driving is a practical exercise and being a good driver means completely understanding how every action you take and movement you make in the given circumstance effects your vehicle and those around you.

Park Royal

Bad drivers can put the car on its roof,

standard drivers can put the car on its side

and good drivers keep it on its tyres....all the time......:P

ottostreet

Well, I'm an awesome driver.

Only met one or two as good as me.

Fiona

Hummmm I am not a perfect driver I doubt the perfect driver exists. I do have my advanced driving test with the IAM so I must be alright :P

I have lots of bad habits but don't have little tips or crashes, I don't take the corners off my bumpers, I leave decent space between me and the car ahead, driving fast in challenging circumstances is something I'm not good at, I wouldn't have made a good get away driver.

milltown

Raladic wrote: »

Good drivers know their vehicle and can drive it efficiently (e.g. not using brakes unless neccesary, instead using the motor brake)

Any advanced driving manual/course will teach you that your engine is for making the car go and the brakes are for braking.

Me? I'd consider myself above average, largely because the average in this country is so low.

I can remember being driven by guys who were better than me at operating and controlling a car but never felt fully safe. We were always just somebody else's mistake away from a crash. There's a certain standard that's desirable on the road. If you want to demonstrate anything more than that, take it to the track

antodeco

So I said to my instructor "I am a good driver". He said "There are no more good drivers".

damo86

Think the word we should be using is to be a competent driver. theres no good or bad, your either competent or not competent.

The fact that you passed the driving test doesn't mean your competent as driving is a constant learning curve, more experience gained and learn from your mistakes (hopefully minor), and also other peoples mistakes.

Also keeping the standard of driving that adheres to the rules of the road and the road conditions.

Just my 2cents

Also try and not act the twat! :P

Fiona

milltown wrote: »

Any advanced driving manual/course will teach you that your engine is for making the car go and the brakes are for braking.

Well yes they do teach you that but they do also emphasis engine breaking to help assist you with fuel consumption and to lessen the wear and tear on the cars main systems that are used when breaking. And lets face it it makes sense in this day and age to drive in this manner since everything is so bloody expensive!

taintabird

Race car driving and ordinary driving are two complete different disciplines and cant be compared.
Sadly in this country we don’t have many drivers of any consequence in either disciplines, most people seem to think indicators are optional, that the outside lane of a motorway is "the fast lane", speed limits are advisory and finally my pet hate hogging the middle lane of a three lane motorway. Just for good measure throw in a complete lack of observation and awareness of what’s around them.

ianobrien

This is what I consider the qualities of a good driver, in this order

1. Mechanical knowledge and sympathy. They should know how a car works and how to get the best from it with as little input as possible

2. Ability to read the road and traffic and manouver the car safely and efficiently while holding a reasonably constant speed.

3. Ability to drive smoothly. I can really see this as a passanger as I suffer terribly from motion sickness and any non smooth driving will have me emptying my stomach.....

4. Ability to keep up with traffic. That also goes to the silly bugger in Cork driving the Jap Import People Carrier with large "Peace on our Roads" stickers who was driving last night at 25kph on empty roads.......

5. Finally, somebody who knows the rules of the roads and obeys them all!

As for myself, overall I am not a good driver. I have reasonable car control gained through motorsport but I can be a tad impatient on the road.....

LLU

Can you really be a "good" driver?

Only if you post regularly in the motors section of boards. Otherwise forget it, you're crap.

yermanoffthetv

ianobrien wrote: »

3. Ability to drive smoothly. I can really see this as a passanger as I suffer terribly from motion sickness and any non smooth driving will have me emptying my stomach.....

4. Ability to keep up with traffic. That also goes to the silly bugger in Cork driving the Jap Import People Carrier with large "Peace on our Roads" stickers who was driving last night at 25kph on empty roads.......

My own father is particularly guilty of #3 wedging on the brake and then back on the gas after corner etc. Use the bloody gears to slow down! Hate going on long journeys when hes driving. Thing is its alot less fuel efficient driving that way aswell.

#4 Oh god I swear some people would be quicker walking especially auld ones potterin along at 60kph stuck out by the white line and a 20+ tailback behind them. Seen more than a few near misses when people get impatient and try overtaking.

My pet peeve is the complete lack of indication by some people, especially at roundabouts. Or "under-indication" sticking on the flasher for one or two ticks when theyre already 3/4's of the way into my lane. TOO FU3CKING LATE A$$H0LE!!! :mad:

yermanoffthetv

ianobrien wrote: »

3. Ability to drive smoothly. I can really see this as a passanger as I suffer terribly from motion sickness and any non smooth driving will have me emptying my stomach.....

4. Ability to keep up with traffic. That also goes to the silly bugger in Cork driving the Jap Import People Carrier with large "Peace on our Roads" stickers who was driving last night at 25kph on empty roads.......

My own father is particularly guilty of #3 wedging on the brake and then back on the gas after corner etc. Use the bloody gears to slow down! Hate going on long journeys when hes driving. Thing is its alot less fuel efficient driving that way aswell.

#4 Oh god I swear some people would be quicker walking especially auld ones potterin along at 60kph stuck out by the white line and a 20+ tailback behind them. Seen more than a few near misses when people get impatient and try overtaking.

My pet peeve is the complete lack of indication by some people, especially at roundabouts. Or "under-indication" sticking on the flasher for one or two ticks when theyre already 3/4's of the way into my lane. TOO FU3CKING LATE A$$H0LE!!!

no1beemerfan

ianobrien wrote: »

This is what I consider the qualities of a good driver, in this order

1. Mechanical knowledge and sympathy. They should know how a car works and how to get the best from it with as little input as possible

I've a '98 car 12 years now and it has all its original stuff on it. Self taught "mechanic" and I was taught to look after things. I don't un-necessarily brake etc. My brother-in-law goes through brake pads within 20k miles. Wheels always black from brake dust......!

2. Ability to read the road and traffic and manouver the car safely and efficiently while holding a reasonably constant speed.

Do this alright.

3. Ability to drive smoothly. I can really see this as a passanger as I suffer terribly from motion sickness and any non smooth driving will have me emptying my stomach.....

Drive smoothly most of the time unless I'm late!

4. Ability to keep up with traffic. That also goes to the silly bugger in Cork driving the Jap Import People Carrier with large "Peace on our Roads" stickers who was driving last night at 25kph on empty roads.......

Do this unless I'm driving the Micra :pac:

5. Finally, somebody who knows the rules of the roads and obeys them all!

Have to meet a person who does No 5!

As for myself, overall I am not a good driver. I have reasonable car control gained through motorsport but I can be a tad impatient on the road.....

.

retrothis

I'd say people who can keep it together on a track and afterwards drive with common senseand awareness on the roads are prob the best drivers.

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.rsa.ie/Utility/News/2010/Vehicle-Speed-Survey-Shows-Mixed-Results/

Put simply the vast majority of Irish drivers speed, and they speed more in the 50Km zones where they are more likely to meet pedestrians and cyclists.

the percentage of drivers exceeding speed limit ranged from 16% to
86% depending on the road type and posted speed limit.


61% of all cars observed on urban roads were speeding.

77.8% of car drivers surveyed exceeded the 50km/h limit on urban
national roads

However, 53% of these drivers exceeded the speed limit by 10km/h or
more;

65% of all articulated trucks observed on rural roads were speeding
(i.e. driving at a speed greater than 80km/h)

There was an increase from 25% in 2007 to 49% in 2008 in the number
of articulated vehicles exceeding the speed limit on two lane secondary
roads;

On motorways, 91% of articulated vehicles were travelling between 80
and 100km/h, 2% travelled between 100-120km/h,

On urban national roads, within a 50km/h speed limit, 68% of
articulated vehicles exceeded 50km/h, 37% of the articulated vehicles
were travelling between 60 and 80km/h, and 2% were travelling
between 80 and 100 km/h;

54% of all rigid trucks observed on rural roads were speeding (i.e.
driving at a speed greater than 80km/h).

On motorways, 83% of rigid vehicles were travelling between 80 and
100km/h, 4% travelled between 100-120km/h,

For rigid trucks, the average free speed was above the vehicle specific
speed limit for all roads except that on national secondary, regional and
local roads;

On urban national roads, within a 50km/h speed limit, 64% of rigid
vehicles exceeded 50km/h and 38% of the rigid vehicles were travelling
between 60 and 80km/h;

57% of all single deck buses observed on rural roads were speeding
(i.e. driving at a speed greater than 80km/h);


The survey also found that car drivers are more likely to exceed a low speed
limit by a wider margin than a high speed limit (see Table 1.1).

dgt

ianobrien wrote: »

This is what I consider the qualities of a good driver, in this order

1. Mechanical knowledge and sympathy. They should know how a car works and how to get the best from it with as little input as possible

2. Ability to read the road and traffic and manouver the car safely and efficiently while holding a reasonably constant speed.

3. Ability to drive smoothly. I can really see this as a passanger as I suffer terribly from motion sickness and any non smooth driving will have me emptying my stomach.....

4. Ability to keep up with traffic. That also goes to the silly bugger in Cork driving the Jap Import People Carrier with large "Peace on our Roads" stickers who was driving last night at 25kph on empty roads.......

5. Finally, somebody who knows the rules of the roads and obeys them all!

As for myself, overall I am not a good driver. I have reasonable car control gained through motorsport but I can be a tad impatient on the road.....

Every car I've insured under my name I've had to do some major mechanical work on or build from a shell. I think I know how they work at this stage :pac:

Am I a competent driver? Yes, very. Have been driving a long time. Am I good? Probably not. Where I am using my mirrors, indicating on roundabouts (my pet HATE is people not indicating on roundabouts :mad::mad::mad:) drive to the conditions, be extra observant around the town etc I quite often get very mad at being stuck behind the "safe" driver on the main road doing 58kmh when its dry and clear. I end up tailgating and charging past. I get impatient around the towns, I have a loud horn and a foul mouth for a reason. I tear away from lights as half the time the driver in the other lane wants to tear on and cut infront of me, because their too stupid to be in the right lane or just pig ignorant....

Yep, typical young fella

alias no.9

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.rsa.ie/Utility/News/2010/Vehicle-Speed-Survey-Shows-Mixed-Results/

Put simply the vast majority of Irish drivers speed, and they speed more in the 50Km zones where they are more likely to meet pedestrians and cyclists.

I'm much less likely to break a speed limit in an urban or suburban area to the point at which my wife said to me one day 'why are you going so slow here [~50km/h in a 50km/h zone] but you'll sometimes go up to 140km/h on the motorway?', needless to say that the fact that its Inappropriate Speed that Kills has been lost to many in the haze of the generic Speed Kills mantra.

challengemaster

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Hold on a second I`m not letting that go, Ireland has had great success on the international field in Motorsport. Our rally drivers are regarded as some of the best in world. I personally know some drivers that have competeted and won all around the world. I suggest you dont comment on things you have no idea about.

And I know you personally won't agree with this, but the same goes for drifting. Great international success there too.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.rsa.ie/Utility/News/2010/Vehicle-Speed-Survey-Shows-Mixed-Results/

Put simply the vast majority of Irish drivers speed, and they speed more in the 50Km zones where they are more likely to meet pedestrians and cyclists.

I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of all drivers speed, or have done at some point, being quite honest with you. Not just Irish.

Driving above the posted (arbitrary speed limit the county council made up) DOES NOT cause accidents, nor is it indicative of good or bad driving.

Driving at 10km/h under the posted speed limit in icy conditions, or driving 10km/h above it on a motorway in perfect weather, which is worse?

And I really don't think competent and not competent are the correct ways of describing it. In theory, everyone who passed the driving test fits into the competent section, as thats what the test is about. Are you competent to be allowed drive on your own without supervision.

having suitable or sufficient skill, knowledge, experience, etc., for some purpose

You can be competent at driving but still a bad driver.

somefeen

Its very hard to actually decide what makes a good driver.

Take that video that was on here not so long ago of the Audi getting into trouble on a motorway. Lots of people said it was great driving because he recovered from a pretty severe skid and then plenty of other people were unimpressed because of his driving up to that point.
Maybe he shouldnt have gotten into that situation in the first place.

I think I'm an OK driver. People tell me they feel safe in the car with me, I understand how the car works and its behaviour in fast corners. I have managed to keep the car under control driving on snow and ice and I dont panic if I'm going sideways. (AWD might be saving my ass though). Just last week I hit a patch of diesel on a road that is pretty notorious. Everyone I know who drives that road has had some kind of a crash on it. Had a bit of oversteer and I kept it together.
I'm never really in much of hurry either if I feel like going slow or don't think its safe to overtake something I just don't bother and leave a gap for anyone that wants it.
Im good at maneuvering to if its physically possible to get a car in somewhere I can get it.

I would still love to try my hand on a skid pad though so I can actually see if my car control is actually any good or if I'm just getting away with it.
I want to do the IAM course to even if I was great Im sure theres some kind of room for improvement.

Capt'n Midnight

challengemaster wrote: »

Driving above the posted (arbitrary speed limit the county council made up) DOES NOT cause accidents, nor is it indicative of good or bad driving.

It is a measurable statistic of how Irish drivers disregard road safety laws.

Also in surveys most Irish drivers reckon they are better than average.

We could probably have saved hundreds of millions in providing extra lanes on Naas road and M50 etc. by getting Irish drivers to obey the rules of the road and by having gantry signs allowing them to use the hard shoulder combined with a 60Kph speed restriction during times of peak congestion.

Mully_2011

No one is going to admit to being a bad driver though

challengemaster

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It is a measurable statistic of how Irish drivers disregard road safety laws.

No it's not. It's a statistic which shows how some Irish drivers on particular routes disregard the speed limits along those routes. Here's where the error of the RSA comes in. Extrapolating that data set onto the entire population to say X% of all drivers disregard all speed limits on all routes.

Nonsense.

And even more nonsense is "disregard all road safety laws" which you seem to be implying.

I'm sure you've heard the "If you assume you make an ass out of you and me" thing by now, extrapolation is the assumption of science. It makes an ass out of everyone.

Also in surveys most Irish drivers reckon they are better than average.

Everyone is their own worst critic, just nobody wants to admit it, right?

We could probably have saved hundreds of millions in providing extra lanes on Naas road and M50 etc. by getting Irish drivers to obey the rules of the road and by having gantry signs allowing them to use the hard shoulder combined with a 60Kph speed restriction during times of peak congestion.

Isn't the whole point of most of the newer road designs and in some cases (certainly not council appointed examples of backroads) speed limits that they alleviate congestion as much as possible?

Just an example with Dublin city centre and the newer 30km/h speed limit. AFAIK, the whole point of the original 50km/h speed limit was so the traffic flowed better and it aided in decreasing traffic issues around the city, hence some arguments against it. My point being, perhaps that was examined as a possibility but having extra lanes and a speed limit of 100km/h at all times seemed more viable in terms of traffic regulation?

SouperComputer

taintabird wrote: »

Race car driving and ordinary driving are two complete different disciplines and cant be compared.

I'm not sure which you know less about, driving on the road or racing. Tell me which one of these doesn't apply to either....

Judge speed and time accurately.
Ablity to scan and "look ahead".
Observe potiental hazards, take corrective\evasive action if needed.
Excercise accurate positioning of vehicle.
Have a basic understanding of the vehicle's limits under varying conditions.
Drive like your life depends on it.

Lots of similarities there IMO. Different environment and risk evaluation of course but the same skills can apply to both.

web designer meath

I'd say be a responsible driver. As long as you are in control of the car and know what others are doing you're a good driver. Anyone can race a car.

Fiona

web designer meath wrote: »

Anyone can race a car.

Yeah but can everybody keep their cars out of the obstacles around them. Obviously not judging by the amount of accidents we see around us. Racing is not for public roads! And yes i am a hypocrite i have had a couple of dices here and there i did say i wasnt a perfect driver in my first post. I saw a horrible head on crash over Christmas which has slowed me down.

Nissan doctor

af_thefragile wrote: »

Who needs to do 3 point turns when you can do power slide turns...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9gqHcURsHE

pfffff, You don't need that much space....or an F1 car:P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDEm2YJErnY





Seriously though.....anyone can race a car??? Only someone with no experience of any sort of performance or track driving would come out with something like that!