A Gay Without A Scene.

Annasopra

Barna77 wrote: »

If only you knew what's going on, fúcking unreal. As a I share with a gay guy and a fag hag, I have the scene at home.

I'm entitled to be bitter.

The actual word "rejection" was used last night.

Needless to say, the house hunting has just began

You can be bitter if you want to be - but it's probably best if don't drag that bitterness into this thread.

Captain Graphite

I don't mind going to gay bards/clubs every so often but the kind of people who refuse to go anywhere else annoy me. I had an ex like that.

I have to admit though that I do like Lady Gaga; you don't have to be a flaming queen to appreciate that the Fame Monster is a damn good pop album.

plein de force

floggg wrote: »

At your age, your my likely to met stereotypes as the more "conformist" gays are most likely still in the closet/confused.

Give it a few years and you'll find the rest of us

no i know loads of gay people and they don't conform to the stereotype, just anytime i go out on the scene the stereotypes are ALL i see

jaffacakesyum

Mr.S wrote: »

True, its a lot easier, but I have met many a gay person in a "straight" club or bar.

Anytime i've been in a gay bar or club, 90% of the people are the gay "stereotype" which for me, is a huge turn off so unless my friends want to go, I won't go to a gay only place just to meet someone.

Yeah I get ya. It's more difficult though when, like me, you're not out. And maybe it's just that my gaydar sucks but I find it very difficult to spot gay/bi girls unless they're the stereotypical butch lesbian which isn't my type and even then, just cos they dress/act like that doesn't necessarily mean they're gay.

Wheras even off the scene it's considerably easier (for me anyway!) to spot a gay man.

*sigh* story of my life :pac:

To be honest, I actually thought I would hate the scene but I do have good nights out there and as I said, it's handy for meeting girls. I do agree though about the bad music and stereotypes and drama....I suppose the trick for me is to go there every now and again but still socialise in other ways too

Aurongroove

I popped into a quiet little (or so it seemed) gay venue in dublin a few days ago.
Panti bar. there were one or two people going around limp-wristing at anecdotes told by friends and they're were a few who were using dancing as a general mode of transportation about the venue, but there were also normal people who were having a pint after a long day.

I think you need to draw a line in the sand between being turned off by camp behavior and being completely intolerant of it. I dislike camp behavior, but I except that for a lot of people it's become an identity to identify with just like being goth, emo etc etc.
it's hard to argue on one hand the bother of having trouble fining and identifying other gay people in social contexts and on the other saying you dislike campness and gay venues.

If you're not in a gay venue there's no way of knowing if someone is gay unless they at least throw you a bone (pun intended, but in a knowing ironic way, I swear!) and alas camp behavior has become that bone for better or worse. You could always instead just go to a gay venue and only interact with the people behaving like normal humans. but you need to decide wither you find gay venues, or camp behavior the lesser evil. because without either then your basically just chatting up people blind, and then playing deal or no deal with their orientation.

baby and crumble

Aurongroove wrote: »

I popped into a quiet little (or so it seemed) gay venue in dublin a few days ago.
Panti bar. there were one or two people going around limp-wristing at anecdotes told by friends and they're were a few who were using dancing as a general mode of transportation about the venue, but there were also normal people who were having a pint after a long day.

That's pretty intolerant...

Aurongroove

I dont know wither you're carrying on the gag, or you took it up on a serious tone, but I've learnt not to take chances when it comes to detecting 'tone' especially as first impressions on a forum can be hard to alter.
The precise part you highlighted was entirely written in Ironic parody having lurked and read similar themes.

Slang_Tang

baby and crumble wrote: »

That's pretty intolerant...

I think large chunks of this thread have taken one form of behaviour (campness), enlarged it, and applied it liberally to whole sections of people.

Camp (and even drag) is a performance, not part of someone's personality. It's possible some people are doing it to make others uncomfortable, just for the hell of it (and they're succeeding, by the looks of this thread).

Slang_Tang

Aurongroove wrote: »

I dont know wither you're carrying on the gag, or you took it up on a serious tone, but I've learnt not to take chances when it comes to detecting 'tone' especially as first impressions on a forum can be hard to alter.
The precise part you highlighted was entirely written in Ironic parody having lurked and read similar themes.

What about the behaving like normal human beings line? That was even worse, and I suspect not at all ironic.

Goodshape

Slang_Tang wrote: »

Camp (and even drag) is a performance.

I know some camp guys who would find that point of view hugely insulting.

But you'd be walking on egg-shells trying not insult anyone around here. I think Aurongroove got his points across just fine.

Slang_Tang

Goodshape wrote: »

I know some camp guys who would find that point of view hugely insulting.

But you'd be walking on egg-shells trying not insult anyone around here. I think Aurongroove got his points across just fine.

You can get your point across without implicitly labelling people as freaks (the opposite of 'normal human beings').

Barna77

Goodshape wrote: »

But you'd be walking on egg-shells trying not insult anyone around here. I think Aurongroove got his points across just fine.

Agreed.

Sometimes it feels like you have to chose the words very very carefully, but still someone would feel instulted.

Been there, done that.

Goodshape

Slang_Tang wrote: »

You can get your point across without implicitly labelling people as freaks (the opposite of 'normal human beings').

I suspect there was some irony in that statement. And I suspect you knew what he meant, too. It's entirely the topic of this thread.

Slang_Tang

Goodshape wrote: »

I suspect there was some irony in that statement. And I suspect you knew what he meant, too. It's entirely the topic of this thread.

Irony again. Can we just dismiss everything as irony, then? Did we enter a parallel universe where everything is an Alanis Morissette song?

Goodshape

Slang_Tang wrote: »

Irony again. Can we just dismiss everything as irony, then?

Well, just as long as we don't descend into a debate about what actually constitutes irony. Because most of this probably doesn't and that debate would be even less fun than this one.

Did we enter a parallel universe where everything is an Alanis Morissette song?

Oh yeah, sure we did. I toootaallly agree with you.

jaffacakesyum

Goodshape wrote: »

Oh yeah, sure we did. I toootaallly agree with you.

Ah now that's sarcasm not irony :P

Just thought I'd butt in here :pac:

Oh and I know this is off topic but I was looking in the Know Your Quiltbags thread and you look so like Fyfe Dangerfield!!!

Goodshape

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Ah now that's sarcasm not irony :P

You're sarcasm!!

Oh and I know this is off topic but I was looking in the Know Your Quiltbags thread and you look so like Fyfe Dangerfield!!!

First I've heard of Fyfe Dangerfield, but seems a grand looking guy. I'll allow it :P

baby and crumble

To draaaaaaaaag the thread back a little my point when I said "that's pretty intolerant" was that to me, it didn't sound like irony. It sounded really bitchy, and judgemental, thinly veiled in humour. And if people have such a big problem with 'the scene' then start your own. If all the people who came onto this board moaning about how they hate all the camp guys, and all the stone butch lesbians and how they give us all a bad name and blah blah blah went off and actually looked, there are plenty of gay spaces where they, as 'normal' people could go off and have a super fun time.

I realise that this is going to sound harsh, but really. I don't see why straight people coming in here going "jaysis, the limp wrists on them lads, wha'?" would get an infraction for intolerant behaviour and yet intolerant gay folks can come in, do the same and go "oh, come on, I was only messing!! Lighten up, peeps!!!"?

Doesn't make much sense to me. And I'll freely admit that a few years ago I held the same opinions as many of you- but I have come to see that the world is made up of lots of different people, different scenes, and different ways of behaving. You don't like one scene? Find another, it does exist. I just never knew there were so many lesbians who liked visiting art galleries for example. Luckily for me I found them, so I don't have to go somewhere I don't enjoy just to bitch about it the next day.

/rant.

floggg

baby and crumble wrote: »

To draaaaaaaaag the thread back a little my point when I said "that's pretty intolerant" was that to me, it didn't sound like irony. It sounded really bitchy, and judgemental, thinly veiled in humour. And if people have such a big problem with 'the scene' then start your own. If all the people who came onto this board moaning about how they hate all the camp guys, and all the stone butch lesbians and how they give us all a bad name and blah blah blah went off and actually looked, there are plenty of gay spaces where they, as 'normal' people could go off and have a super fun time.

I realise that this is going to sound harsh, but really. I don't see why straight people coming in here going "jaysis, the limp wrists on them lads, wha'?" would get an infraction for intolerant behaviour and yet intolerant gay folks can come in, do the same and go "oh, come on, I was only messing!! Lighten up, peeps!!!"?

Doesn't make much sense to me. And I'll freely admit that a few years ago I held the same opinions as many of you- but I have come to see that the world is made up of lots of different people, different scenes, and different ways of behaving. You don't like one scene? Find another, it does exist. I just never knew there were so many lesbians who liked visiting art galleries for example. Luckily for me I found them, so I don't have to go somewhere I don't enjoy just to bitch about it the next day.

/rant.

I agree. The scene is what you make it. I'd like to think I'm a regular enough guy, not overtly camp and not a jock. I used to think I'd hate "the scene" and all on it, but once I gave it a chance I actually really enjoy it.

It's all about what you make of it. I've gone out alone or in a group and always found decent sound regular people to talk to.

There might be a few camp guys but there are plenty of non camp guys too. And even the "camp" guys are generally sound lads.

I know myself at times I uses to be too judgmental to give people a chance and believed all the cliches. But once I gave people a fair chance and took them as they came I found that the scene contains all sorts.

Now all that said I'm not on it that long and don't have a wide circle of gay friends, so I don't want to act like I'm an expert. But in my experience so far there's been something for everybody.

Aurongroove

I had a big long post written out but I've just deleted it.

I kinda don't care? the tone of my post was clearly misunderstood. Why would someone arguing against intolerance of camp behavior and gay venues hold offensive views on same?
No, It could only have been humour and rhetoric

It just doesn't make sense otherwise. I bet half the people who read my post didn't even get the point of it, it certainly hasn't been replied to at least.
camp behavior has viable social purpose, gay venues have a viable social purpose. you need if not both, then at least one and I defy anyone to argue otherwise.

ongarboy

I've been "frequenting" the scene for approx 10 years now and have met some varied, sound and wonderful people. I have also met some tossers, rude, arrogant types, types I had loads in common with, types I had nothing in common with, types who become very close friends. I really think it's the same as any other social outlet or gathering of people everywhere. You just focus and go with what works for you. If you hate Dragon on Saturday nights, then don't go there. Find an alternative source for what might be fun for you (eg art galleries as someone mentioned)

I wonder do some posters here and in general who are critical of the scene have unrealistic expectations of what to expect from it. If you expect heaps of good looking strangers to hit on you or expect them to reciprocate your moves and that doesn't happen, don't blame the "scene". That would happen in any straight venue also to straight folks also.

Aurongroove

ongarboy wrote: »

If you expect heaps of good looking strangers to hit on you or expect them to reciprocate your moves and that doesn't happen, don't blame the "scene". That would happen in any straight venue also to straight folks also.

worth highlighting, for it is the truth.

Slang_Tang

baby and crumble wrote: »

Doesn't make much sense to me. And I'll freely admit that a few years ago I held the same opinions as many of you- but I have come to see that the world is made up of lots of different people, different scenes, and different ways of behaving. You don't like one scene? Find another, it does exist. I just never knew there were so many lesbians who liked visiting art galleries for example. Luckily for me I found them, so I don't have to go somewhere I don't enjoy just to bitch about it the next day.

/rant.

Wonderful post. The last few posts on here have been nice. Like the last few people have said, the gay scene is varied.

I'll admit, too, that I hated campness when I first came out. In most cases, it's insecurity. I was afraid people saw me that way, so I hated it even more. As you grow more comfortable with yourself, it doesn't bother you at all. In fact, you admire anyone who live how they want, even if it annoys so many people. Camp people are much more likely to be called fag**t or to be the focus of physical abuse, etc, so you admire that courage, too.

Slang_Tang

Aurongroove wrote: »

It just doesn't make sense otherwise. I bet half the people who read my post didn't even get the point of it, it certainly hasn't been replied to at least.
camp behavior has viable social purpose, gay venues have a viable social purpose. you need if not both, then at least one and I defy anyone to argue otherwise.

OK, apologies for taking you up the wrong way, then.

baby and crumble

I think sometimes it's hard to read 'irony' and 'sarcasm' on an internet forum...

floggg

Slang_Tang wrote: »

baby and crumble wrote: »

Doesn't make much sense to me. And I'll freely admit that a few years ago I held the same opinions as many of you- but I have come to see that the world is made up of lots of different people, different scenes, and different ways of behaving. You don't like one scene? Find another, it does exist. I just never knew there were so many lesbians who liked visiting art galleries for example. Luckily for me I found them, so I don't have to go somewhere I don't enjoy just to bitch about it the next day.

/rant.

Wonderful post. The last few posts on here have been nice. Like the last few people have said, the gay scene is varied.

I'll admit, too, that I hated campness when I first came out. In most cases, it's insecurity. I was afraid people say me that way, so I hated it even more. As you grow more comfortable with yourself, it doesn't bother you at all. In fact, you admire anyone who lives how they want, even if it annoys so many people. Camp people are much more likely to be called fag**t or to be the focus for physical abuse, etc, so you admire their courage, too.

I agree totally.

And yes Ongarboy, I was disappointed on my first night in a gay bar not to be hit on as soon as I walked in thr door.

Though on my second night in one, I was barely in the door before I was hit on by a man in his 50's/60's who spent a few minutes insulting me (including lifting up my shirt and calling me fat) before inviting me back to his place.

I quickly realised that not being hit on by everything that moved was a good thing!

Aurongroove

spot on Baby&.

It's one of my biggest grievances with text based communication. I always come across as the world's biggest ****. Then people meet me and it makes sense. (yeah, that I AM the worlds biggest ****!:D)

Aurongroove

@ floggg.

you imagine before you go that once you get there you'll be transported into a Stephen Segal film where the only thing protecting your gay virginity is your martial arts training and a sock filled with snooker balls.

anti climatically, no one approaches, or if they do, they're just friendly and normal chaps.

Slang_Tang

Aurongroove wrote: »

you'll be transported into a Stephen Segal film where the only thing protecting your gay virginity is your martial arts training and a sock filled with snooker balls.

That sounds awesome. I wish that happened.

Aurongroove

I wish the bit were people line up to chat to you happened. The snooker ball sock and the martial arts I'll take only if when you strike the would be assailants, that the impact made a 'snooker ball' noise. however acoustically unrealistic.