*Spoiler UFC 142* Question regard standing fighters up?

empacher

Now I know some think Dan Miragliotta was biased some not.

For me I think that more refs should be like that. Especially in the guard you get clinched and don't work to break free, or throw pitter patter strikes you should be stuck up, within 10/15 secs.

Same as holding someone against the cage while half heartily going for a take-down.


It would defiantly make fights more interesting, less jon fitch like.

scudzilla

IMO Dan reffed this fight perfectly, he's not stupid and knew that Johnson would be trying to use his weight advantage to just lie on top of Vitor, so he stopped it and stood 'em up.

If Johnson had been actually doing anything on the ground then he'd have let them stay there a while longer, but if you watch again Johnson was hardly doing anything.

I know Dan on a personal level and am 100% sure in saying that he reffed this fight fairly and without any 'interference' from outside

cowzerp

scudzilla wrote: »

he reffed this fight fairly and without any 'interference' from outside

agree with your post but unsure about that bit.
I won't speculate though as I would infract/ban people who said it was a fix etc

Hococop

i agree i say johnson was not doing enough to keep it on the ground and in the clinch, he was stalling as much just to get a decision as he probably was still drained from the weight cut which of course is his own fault

MrStuffins

Yup! Would like to see more quick stand ups myself actually. Johnson was making no attempts to advance or inflict damage.

Fighters shouldn't be allowed to lay on top and con the judges into thinking they are winning the fight by a combination of just being on top and stopping your opponent from mounting an offense!

Gorey_R

I think fights get stood up way too quick already. It actually really annoys me. I think that instead of the ref standing them up quicker they should change the scoring system. If the guy on top is doing zero damage he gets zero points. In the Woodley vs Mein fight recently ,for example, i think Mein should of been the winner! That's the way to combat the lay and pray strategy. And submission attempts should score higher. When a guy spends 4 minutes playing guard and attempting sweeps and submissions, takes a handfull of punches then gets a sweep near the end he should win the round.

Mellor

Gorey_R wrote: »

I think fights get stood up way too quick already. It actually really annoys me. I think that instead of the ref standing them up quicker they should change the scoring system. If the guy on top is doing zero damage he gets zero points. In the Woodley vs Mein fight recently ,for example, i think Mein should of been the winner! That's the way to combat the lay and pray strategy. And submission attempts should score higher. When a guy spends 4 minutes playing guard and attempting sweeps and submissions, takes a handfull of punches then gets a sweep near the end he should win the round.

There is no current scoring system with points for being on top, or in any position.

scudzilla

cowzerp wrote: »

agree with your post but unsure about that bit.
I won't speculate though as I would infract/ban people who said it was a fix etc

I meant that if, now this is an example, Dana had approached Dan and told him how to Ref the fight he wouldn't have listened.

dave1982

Mellor wrote: »

There is no current scoring system with points for being on top, or in any position.

Fighter have to score points for being on the ground

E. Judging Criteria
1. Judges are required to determine the winner of a bout that goes to it's full time limit based upon the following criteria:
-Clean Strikes
-Effective Grappling
-Octagon Control
-Effective Aggressiveness

F. Clean Strikes
1. The fighter who is landing both effective and efficient clean strikes.
2. There are two ways of measuring strikes:
-the total number of clean strikes landed (more efficient) -the total number of heavy strikes landed (more effective)

G. The heavier striker who lands with efficiency, deserves more credit from the Judges than total number landed.
1. If the striking power between the fighters was equal, then the total number landed would be used as the criteria.
2. The total number of strikes landed, should be of sufficient quantity favoring a fighter, to earn a winning round.

H. Strikes thrown from the top position of the guard, are generally heavier and more effective than those thrown from the back.
1. Thus a Judge shall recognize that effective strikes thrown from the top guard position are of "higher quality", than thrown from the bottom.
2. The Judge shall recognize that this is not always the case.
However, the vast majority of fighters prefer the top guard position to strike from. This is a strong indication of positional dominance for striking.

I. Effective Grappling
1. The Judge shall recognize the value of both the clean takedown and active guard position.
2. The Judge shall recognize that a fighter who is able to cleanly takedown his opponent, is effectively grappling.
3. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter on his back in an active guard position, can effectively grapple, through execution of repeated threatening attempts at submission and reversal resulting in continuous defense from the top fighter.
4. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter who maneuvers from guard to mount is effectively grappling.
5. A Judge shall recognize that the guard position alone shall be scored neutral or even, if none of the preceding situations were met.(items 2-4) 6. A Judge shall recognize that if the fighters remain in guard the majority of a round with neither fighter having an edge in clean striking or effective grappling, (items 2-4), the fighter who scored the clean takedown deserves the round.
7. A clean reversal is equal to a clean takedown in effective grappling

Jason McCabe

GSP might have to fight a bit harder if lay and pray is disallowed

Good for spectators. Bad for Grapplers, especially wrestlers

Mellor

dave1982 wrote: »

Fighter have to score points for being on the ground

There is no "points" as the previous poster suggested. The round is assessed for a winner based on the criteria. A high action round doesn't score more than a boring round. (excluding 10-8 rounds which are different issue).

Also, the suggestion that doing zero damage should score nothing is ridiculous. Advancing you position from full, to half, to side control does no damage but its clearly effective grappling and deserves credit. Sub attempts also deserves credit. Neither of these do damage.
That's cleared referenced in the quote you posted.

dave1982

Mellor wrote: »

There is no "points" as the previous poster suggested. The round is assessed for a winner based on the criteria. A high action round doesn't score more than a boring round. (excluding 10-8 rounds which are different issue).

Also, the suggestion that doing zero damage should score nothing is ridiculous. Advancing you position from full, to half, to side control does no damage but its clearly effective grappling and deserves credit. Sub attempts also deserves credit. Neither of these do damage.
That's cleared referenced in the quote you posted.

Don't understand what you're getting at?

Are you disagreeing with the rules, or agreeing with them?

Xlami

empacher wrote: »

Now I know some think Dan Miragliotta was biased some not.

For me I think that more refs should be like that. Especially in the guard you get clinched and don't work to break free, or throw pitter patter strikes you should be stuck up, within 10/15 secs.

Same as holding someone against the cage while half heartily going for a take-down.


It would defiantly make fights more interesting, less jon fitch like.

I agree with you but the only reason people should be slating Miragliotta is lack of consistency. Johnson was working at all times while on the ground while it was nothing too considerable. Compare this fight to Kos Vs Semtex a fight which Miragliotta also reffed. I mean the term lay and pray gets thrown a lot arounf but this fight took the biscuit. Was thinking this and then saw similar comments by Sonny Dholakia on his facebook. I know UFC has nothing to do with the referee's but some incidents really do make you question how much referee's are influenced why factors such as crowd.

Mellor

The poster said that the points system should be changed so that doing no damage on top deserves no points.

I was pointing that, no "points" are awarded. There is a winner and a loser. Determined by various elements.
and then I was also pointing out that effective grappling has little to do with striking or doing damage.