Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2011/2012

greendom

tayto lover wrote: »

More to the point if Wenger had left six years ago we might be in a better position now. I think George would have kept us winning things but we won't know now. Just my belief.

I very much doubt that to be fair. The team were becoming increasingly defensive and negative under his tenure. He didn't pull up any trees at Leeds or Spurs after he left us either.

He finished 10th in 92 - 93. Despite the cup wins would that be acceptable under Wenger ?

What I wouldn't do to hear "boring boring Arsenal" again on the back of another 1-0 win...

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

I very much doubt that to be fair. The team were becoming increasingly defensive and negative under his tenure. He didn't pull up any trees at Leeds or Spurs after he left us either.

He finished 10th in 92 - 93. Despite the cup wins would that be acceptable under Wenger ?

This season is not over yet.

meriwether

tayto lover wrote: »

More to the point if Wenger had left six years ago we might be in a better position now. I think George would have kept us winning things but we won't know now. Just my belief.

Nonsense.

Wenger deserves enormous kudos for what he has done over the last 6 years.

Wenger has built and paid for a stadium, a stadium that will finance the club for years to come, when Wenger is gone, and possibly you and me too.

He did this by qualifying for the CL 6 years in a row.

How many times did Liverpool, City, Spurs, Everton and Villa qualify in that period?

And he did this on a shoestring. Arsenal is run like a business. And for that period the business had enormous debt repayments to make, which hugely impacted upon the operational expenditure possible (namely transfer fees).

Wenger unearted Cesc, Sagna, Clichy, RVP (£2.7m, yes £2.7m), Flamini for peanuts, and kept us competitive, and kept us solvent.

In the fortnight that's in it, with Rangers going to the wall, Wengers achievement is all the better.

The '6 years without a trophy' is complete blather. The Carling cup is a trophy. The FA cup is a trophy. Would I take 6 Carling cups and 6 5th place finishes?

No, I bloody well wouldn't.

Wenger now has the money to spend. I say he has earned his right to spend it and build a team in his image.

His record - that of Arsenal dining at the top table for the last 16 years, that of Arsenal missing out on the title by 4 points in 2008 with a squad inexpensively assembled, that of 3 championships, 4 FA cups, a runner up in the CL, that of 16 consecutive years in the flagship world club football competition - deserves it.

He also deserves a lot more respect from the fans, fans that are relatively spoilt by success - his success.

tayto lover

meriwether wrote: »

Nonsense.

Wenger deserves enormous kudos for what he has done over the last 6 years.

Wenger has built and paid for a stadium, a stadium that will finance the club for years to come, when Wenger is gone, and possibly you and me too.

He did this by qualifying for the CL 6 years in a row.

How many times did Liverpool, City, Spurs, Everton and Villa qualify in that period?

And he did this on a shoestring. Arsenal is run like a business. And for that period the business had enormous debt repayments to make, which hugely impacted upon the operational expenditure possible (namely transfer fees).

Wenger unearted Cesc, Sagna, Clichy, RVP (£2.7m, yes £2.7m), Flamini for peanuts, and kept us competitive, and kept us solvent.

In the fortnight that's in it, with Rangers going to the wall, Wengers achievement is all the better.

The '6 years without a trophy' is complete blather. The Carling cup is a trophy. The FA cup is a trophy. Would I take 6 Carling cups and 6 5th place finishes?

No, I bloody well wouldn't.

Wenger now has the money to spend. I say he has earned his right to spend it and build a team in his image.

His record - that of Arsenal dining at the top table for the last 16 years, that of Arsenal missing out on the title by 4 points in 2008 with a squad inexpensively assembled, that of 3 championships, 4 FA cups, a runner up in the CL, that of 16 consecutive years in the flagship world club football competition - deserves it.

He also deserves a lot more respect from the fans, fans that are relatively spoilt by success - his success.

BUT he has bought some crap in the last number of years and he has bought players who have no desire, passion or fight in them at all. This is what is annoying fans. Other teams just bully our lads and know that the tactic will work and Wenger has had enough time to work on that. We can continue to blame injuries for our annual Spring collapse but there is more to it than that. Not to mention the defence which has been our Achilles Heel for years. I am not personally blaming all this on Wenger by the way as the Board has to take a lot of blame.

1mcampo1

greendom

Deleted User wrote: »

What I wouldn't do to hear "boring boring Arsenal" again on the back of another 1-0 win...

So a club of Arsenal's stature should be winning trophies more often. But it's ok for the team to have a reputation of playing football like Stoke or Bolton under Allardyce.

iMuse

Arsenal have in the region of £50m available "to spend or to save for a rainy day"

The AST estimates that the cost to the club of failure to qualify for the Champions League is circa £45m in annual revenues

I don't see why we couldn't have spent another 30-40 Million in the transfer market which would have all but guaranteed CL football, instead we will more than likely be left without champions league football which will wipe out our cash reserves next season. If we don't qualify, where is the money for new players going to come from? More player sales?

http://www.arsenaltrust.org/news/2012/ast-analysis-of-financial-position-of-arsenal-football-club

Pepe LeFrits

meriwether wrote: »

How many times did Liverpool, City, Spurs, Everton and Villa qualify in that period?

And he did this on a shoestring. Arsenal is run like a business. And for that period the business had enormous debt repayments to make, which hugely impacted upon the operational expenditure possible (namely transfer fees).

Liverpool are the only comparable team there. Otherwise, you can legitimately ask, how many times have Arsenal finished ahead of Man United or Chelsea?

... and Arsenal aren't run on a shoe-string. £125m in wages last fiscal year, probably going to be more in the next one (I think those numbers are coming soon).

There is a club punching well above its weight in terms of finances near the top of the premier league the last few seasons, but unfortunately it isn't Arsenal.

tayto lover

Spurs are spending 40% less on wages than Arsenal.

gosplan

KeithAFC wrote: »

Some would have you believe Arsenal FC only started in 1996.

RVP 11 wrote: »

Yeah, The Wengerites.

Grow the fcuk up.

We are all fans of the same club.

Obviously we have different opinions on the best way forward but we are all Arsenal supporters.

All comments like the above do is show everyone that you're just trying to be as divisive as possible amongst your fellow Arsenal supporters. Either we think Wenger should be sacked in the morning or we're 'Wengerites' who thinks Arsenal FC is 15 years old. Show a little respect to your fellow fans please.

gosplan

tayto lover wrote: »

Spurs are spending 40% less on wages than Arsenal.

Yeah, pretty galling that one given that our expenditure was always the final brag. Spurs have out-Arsenaled us!

Kidding aside though, I get the feeling that this season's level will be a temporary thing for Spurs. A lot of things have come together at the right for this team - Bale, Modric, Ade, Redknapp but they're going to find it pretty hard to hold on to any of those 4 next year.

However, all that said, their board has done a fantastic job over the last few seasons and they might find the correct way forward for the club through the transition.

greendom

tayto lover wrote: »

Spurs are spending 40% less on wages than Arsenal.

Thanks to Man City

tayto lover

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah, pretty galling that one given that our expenditure was always the final brag. Spurs have out-Arsenaled us!

Kidding aside though, I get the feeling that this season's level will be a temporary thing for Spurs. A lot of things have come together at the right for this team - Bale, Modric, Ade, Redknapp but they're going to find it pretty hard to hold on to any of those 4 next year.

However, all that said, their board has done a fantastic job over the last few seasons and they might find the correct way forward for the club through the transition.

If we can hang on to 4th place I think major changes will be made in the Summer. We could do with a bit of luck for a change. The thing that gets me is the lack of fight in what is left of the squad. There was nobody on the bench on Sat that you could really see coming on and changing things. I really think they need a good wake-up call. If we could just manage a win against the Spuds it could propel us forward. Very tough games coming at the wrong time. Think Kos is back for weekend though and Jack on the way. We need to hang in there.

greendom

Financial news is very depressing too. If Wenger does go there'll be no high profile manager to replace him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/9094626/Arsene-Wenger-has-only-55-million-to-spend-this-summer-to-strengthen-Arsenals-underperforming-squad.html

- 55 million to spend

- less 50 million if we don't make Champions League

- after believing that we were so well run financially, if we don't make Champs League, we're in danger of failling FFP !

gosplan

tayto lover wrote: »

If we can hang on to 4th place I think major changes will be made in the Summer. We could do with a bit of luck for a change. The thing that gets me is the lack of fight in what is left of the squad. There was nobody on the bench on Sat that you could really see coming on and changing things. I really think they need a good wake-up call. If we could just manage a win against the Spuds it could propel us forward. Very tough games coming at the wrong time. Think Kos is back for weekend though and Jack on the way. We need to hang in there.

I worry about the Spurs game. They've far more quality than us at the moment and are playing well too. The fact that they got a crappy nil-all at the weekend kind of gives me hope. With any luck the whole Harry/England thing will get to them.

Regardless of what we do though, if they turn up in-form, we're in trouble.

Drexel

greendom wrote: »

Financial news is very depressing too. If Wenger does go there'll be no high profile manager to replace him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/9094626/Arsene-Wenger-has-only-55-million-to-spend-this-summer-to-strengthen-Arsenals-underperforming-squad.html

- 55 million to spend

- less 50 million if we don't make Champions League

- after believing that we were so well run financially, if we don't make Champs League, we're in danger of failling FFP !

Basically we are fúcked without CL football. Wasnt it only a month or two ago that the board were out sayin we were covered if we didn't qualify. Full of shìt they are.

keano_afc

We are covered if we don't qualify. It just means we have no money to spend on new players.

Nothing changes basically.

gosplan

jonny666 wrote: »

Basically we are fúcked without CL football. Wasnt it only a month or two ago that the board were out sayin we were covered if we didn't qualify. Full of shìt they are.

It's the telegraph's version of AST questions that have as yet to be answered by the club.

We'll find out the real story later in the week hopefully(and hopefully it'll be a bit more positive).

tayto lover

gosplan wrote: »

I worry about the Spurs game. They've far more quality than us at the moment and are playing well too. The fact that they got a crappy nil-all at the weekend kind of gives me hope. With any luck the whole Harry/England thing will get to them.

Regardless of what we do though, if they turn up in-form, we're in trouble.

Indeed. We seem very light at the minute. The really annoying memory I have from the Sunderland game was the sight of Arteta (and he was one of our better players) being so easily knocked off the ball in the build up to their 2nd goal. I just couldn't imagine that happening to Petit, Parlour, Gilberto or Vieira. Even Lundberg and Pires were bigger and stronger. They would have knocked him off the ball. Song is our toughest midfield player at the moment but he looks jaded. We need to buy some better built players in the summer.

I think we will do ok against Spurs though. We play better against footballing teams.

wandatowell

keano_afc wrote: »

We are covered if we don't qualify. It just means we have no money to spend on new players.

Nothing changes basically.

So its pretty much business as usual?

greendom

To stand any chance against Spurs we need Kos, and 1 of Gibbs or Coq to be back. Anyone know how that's looking ?

enfant terrible

Apparently this is what we're spending on wages from arsenalmania, Bendtner and Denilson not included.

Find Fabianski, Mannone, Jenkinson, Squillaci, Djourou, Coquelin and Park hard to believe to be true.



Goalkeepers:

Almunia – £60,000 PW = £3,120,000 PY
Fabianski – £50,000 PW = £2,600,000 PY
Mannone – £30,000 PW = £1,560,000 PY
Szczesny – £50,000 PW = £2,600,000 PY

Total Wage Bill Per Week = £190,000 PW
Total Wage Bill Per Year = £9,880,000 PY

Defenders:

Sagna – £60,000 PW = £3,120,000 PY
Santos – 50,000 PW = £2,600,000 PY
Gibbs – £40,000 PW = £2,080,000 PY
Jenkinson – £20,000 PW = £1,040,000 PY
Koscielny – £50,000 PW = £2,600,000 PY
Mertesacker – 60,000 PW = £3,120,000 PY
Vermaelen -£70,000 PW = £3,640,000 PY
Squillaci – £60,000 PW = £3,120,000 PY
Djourou – £50,000 PW = £2,600,000 PY

Total Wage Bill Per Week = £460,000 PW
Total Wage Bill Per Year = £23,920,000 PY

Midfielders:

Arteta – £70,000 PW = £3,640,000 PY
Wilshere – £55,000 PW = £2,860,000 PY
Ramsey – £55,000 PW = £2,860,000 PY
Song – £55,000 PW = £2,860,000 PY
Benayoun – £70,000 PW (On Loan – Season) = £3,640,000 PY
Arshavin – £70,000 PW = £3,640,000 PY
Rosicky – £60,000 PW = £3,120,000 PY
Coquelin – £25,000 PW = £1,300,000 PY
Diaby – £50,000 PW = £2,600,000 PY

Total Wage Bill Per Week =£497,000 PW
Total Wage Bill Per Year = £26,520,000 PY

Strikers:

Van Persie – £90,000 PW – £4,680,000 PY
Chamakh – £60,000 PW = £3,120,000 PY
Gervinho – £55,000 PW = £2,860,000 PY
Walcott – £70,000 PW = £3,640,000 PY
Park – £40,000 PW = £2,080,000 PY
Miyaichi – £15,000 PW = £780,000 PY
Oxlade-Chamberlain PW – £20,000 PW = £1,040,000 PY
Henry – £70,000 PW(On Loan – 2 Months) – £560,000 For The Loan

Total Wage Bill Per Week = £420,000 PW
Total Wage Bill Per Year = £18,760,000 PY

Squad Total Wage Bill Per Week = £1,567,000
Squad Total Wage Bill Per Year = £79,080,000

Removing Almunia, Fabianski, Squillaci , Djourou, Benayoun, Arshavin, Rosicky, Diaby, Chamakh, Walcott and Park we would save £33,280,000 per year.

Who could we pay with that kind of money Tevez, Yaya Toure, Rooney etc.

L'prof

enfant terrible wrote: »

Removing Almunia, Fabianski, Squillaci , Djourou, Benayoun, Arshavin, Rosicky, Diaby, Chamakh, Walcott and Park we would save £33,280,000 per year.

Who could we pay with that kind of money Tevez, Yaya Toure, Rooney etc.

So you want us to remove 11 players in one season???

enfant terrible

L'prof wrote: »

So you want us to remove 11 players in one season???

Yes that was the point I was making, well done.

tayto lover

L'prof wrote: »

So you want us to remove 11 players in one season???

Most names on that list deserve to be removed but we would also be replacing some of them with better quality and maybe promote a few reserves. A bit of drastic surgery is badly needed. Some of those lads think they are in a holiday camp.

KeithAFC

enfant terrible wrote: »

Apparently this is what we're spending on wages from arsenalmania, Bendtner and Denilson not included.

Find Fabianski, Mannone, Jenkinson, Squillaci, Djourou, Coquelin and Park hard to believe to be true.



Goalkeepers:

Almunia – £60,000 PW = £3,120,000 PY
Fabianski – £50,000 PW = £2,600,000 PY
Mannone – £30,000 PW = £1,560,000 PY
Szczesny – £50,000 PW = £2,600,000 PY

Total Wage Bill Per Week = £190,000 PW
Total Wage Bill Per Year = £9,880,000 PY

Defenders:

Sagna – £60,000 PW = £3,120,000 PY
Santos – 50,000 PW = £2,600,000 PY
Gibbs – £40,000 PW = £2,080,000 PY
Jenkinson – £20,000 PW = £1,040,000 PY
Koscielny – £50,000 PW = £2,600,000 PY
Mertesacker – 60,000 PW = £3,120,000 PY
Vermaelen -£70,000 PW = £3,640,000 PY
Squillaci – £60,000 PW = £3,120,000 PY
Djourou – £50,000 PW = £2,600,000 PY

Total Wage Bill Per Week = £460,000 PW
Total Wage Bill Per Year = £23,920,000 PY

Midfielders:

Arteta – £70,000 PW = £3,640,000 PY
Wilshere – £55,000 PW = £2,860,000 PY
Ramsey – £55,000 PW = £2,860,000 PY
Song – £55,000 PW = £2,860,000 PY
Benayoun – £70,000 PW (On Loan – Season) = £3,640,000 PY
Arshavin – £70,000 PW = £3,640,000 PY
Rosicky – £60,000 PW = £3,120,000 PY
Coquelin – £25,000 PW = £1,300,000 PY
Diaby – £50,000 PW = £2,600,000 PY

Total Wage Bill Per Week =£497,000 PW
Total Wage Bill Per Year = £26,520,000 PY

Strikers:

Van Persie – £90,000 PW – £4,680,000 PY
Chamakh – £60,000 PW = £3,120,000 PY
Gervinho – £55,000 PW = £2,860,000 PY
Walcott – £70,000 PW = £3,640,000 PY
Park – £40,000 PW = £2,080,000 PY
Miyaichi – £15,000 PW = £780,000 PY
Oxlade-Chamberlain PW – £20,000 PW = £1,040,000 PY
Henry – £70,000 PW(On Loan – 2 Months) – £560,000 For The Loan

Total Wage Bill Per Week = £420,000 PW
Total Wage Bill Per Year = £18,760,000 PY

Squad Total Wage Bill Per Week = £1,567,000
Squad Total Wage Bill Per Year = £79,080,000

Removing Almunia, Fabianski, Squillaci , Djourou, Benayoun, Arshavin, Rosicky, Diaby, Chamakh, Walcott and Park we would save £33,280,000 per year.

Who could we pay with that kind of money Tevez, Yaya Toure, Rooney etc.

LOL. And people say the club can't afford to bring in 3-4 top class players. The club is ****ing loaded with cash. Look at those wages!

Underground

enfant terrible wrote: »

Removing Almunia, Fabianski, Squillaci , Djourou, Benayoun, Arshavin, Rosicky, Diaby, Chamakh, Walcott and Park we would save £33,280,000 per year.

Who could we pay with that kind of money Tevez, Yaya Toure, Rooney etc.

Bit harsh on those two, especially Djourou.
Although i do agree Fabianski's wage packet is too large for a back up keeper.

Galvasean

People say selling too many players is bad for the team... Screw the team! They're the ones that have us in this mess!

Fuzzy_Dunlop

If that's true (which seems mostly accurate), then where do these figures of 140m come from?

Also the wages for Squillachi, Almunia, Djourou, Diaby, Park and walcott in particular are ridiculous considering what they offer us.

enfant terrible

KeithAFC wrote: »

LOL. And people say the club can't afford to bring in 3-4 top class players. The club is ****ing loaded with cash. Look at those wages!

Most overpaid squad in history?, including past Chelsea and current Man City team.

tayto lover

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

If that's true (which seems mostly accurate), then where do these figures of 140m come from?

Also the wages for Squillachi, Almunia, Djourou, Diaby, Park and walcott in particular are ridiculous considering what they offer us.

Manager, staff i presume.

KeithAFC

enfant terrible wrote: »

Most overpaid squad in history?, including past Chelsea and current Man City team.

YES!

Win f*ck all and get loaded. What a disgrace this current team and set up at Arsenal is. We should be competing for the title with such wages. Diaby is on something like 60k a week. And for what?

enfant terrible

Galvasean wrote: »

People say selling too many players is bad for the team... Screw the team! They're the ones that have us in this mess!

They are not going anywhere, who's going to pay Almunia and co 60k a week?

cson

If that list is true then Almunia, Benayoun, Park and Squillaci are outrageous. That's over £12m a year on players who have started a combined 15 times this season.

Only £800k for each time they got one of their names on the teamsheet.

Bargain.

cson

Ox is cracking value though.

tayto lover

cson wrote: »

If that list is true then Almunia, Benayoun, Park and Squillaci are outrageous. That's over £12m a year on players who have started a combined 15 times this season.

Only £800k for each time they got one of their names on the teamsheet.

Bargain.

Squillachi on 60k ?? And there was me saying "Specsavers" everytime he missed a header on Saturday but he was drunk. I would be drunk every day too if i was on 60k a week. Mad wages for him, what did they see in him at all ?

enfant terrible

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

If that's true (which seems mostly accurate), then where do these figures of 140m come from?

Also the wages for Squillachi, Almunia, Djourou, Diaby, Park and walcott in particular are ridiculous considering what they offer us.

I think its £124m
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/sep/30/arsenal-annual-accounts

Not sure where the other 40m goes on wages, how much could the staff and youth team be on.

Galvasean

Is the money saved in transfer fees offset by the wage bill, like in football manager?

enfant terrible

Jenkinson is almost earning half of what Luka Modric makes

Ludicrous if true.

meriwether

KeithAFC wrote: »

LOL. And people say the club can't afford to bring in 3-4 top class players. The club is ****ing loaded with cash. Look at those wages!

Really?

Lets examine this a bit.

4 world class players? Lets say £30m each (thats conservative, Hazard is beig qouted at £35m).

Top class wages? £100k a week (again conservative, Rooney is on over £200k a week, Adebayor £225k).

The total cost of this in the first year is £140m.

You're looking at an annual wage bill of £79m, and telling me we can shell out £140m on new players (and thats really conservative)?

No, we can't.

Next, while the wages may look on the high side, hands up here who was unhappy when Flamini left, and was able to go, as he was coming to the end of a short term contract, with a relatively low wage?

The season before he broke thrtough as a defensive midfielder, was anyone demanding he be given a 5 year contract on 100k a week? I wasn't.

The spin off between paying players too much is the risk of not tieing them down, and losing them for nothing, or peanuts.

amacachi

Hold on, Arteta on 70k per week after a paycut? Looks like Everton aren't as poor as they let on.

enfant terrible

Deleted User wrote: »

Ludicrous if true.

Agreed, but I do remember Wenger saying he doesn't like there to be the big disparity between the higest and lowest paid at Arsenal for some reason.

If true its probably the biggest reason we're failing at the moment because paying our squad players much less would allow us to pay star players much more.

Radharc na Sleibhte

Coquelin couldnt be on 25k, he couldnt be.

meriwether

enfant terrible wrote: »

Jenkinson is almost earning half of what Luka Modric makes

Thats an isolated incident that proves nothing.

For instance, if Modric is on £40k a week he's underpaid. He's also paid less than (of thetop of my head guesses) Torres, Bosingwa, Kalou, Carroll, Carrick, Giggs (who is 37) and Adebayor, whois on £225k a week.

Its a freak event.

KeithAFC

meriwether wrote: »

Really?

Lets examine this a bit.

4 world class players? Lets say £30m each (thats conservative, Hazard is beig qouted at £35m).

Top class wages? £100k a week (again conservative, Rooney is on over £200k a week, Adebayor £225k).

The total cost of this in the first year is £140m.

You're looking at an annual wage bill of £79m, and telling me we can shell out £140m on new players (and thats really conservative)?

No, we can't.

Next, while the wages may look on the high side, hands up here who was unhappy when Flamini left, and was able to go, as he was coming to the end of a short term contract, with a relatively low wage?

The season before he broke thrtough as a defensive midfielder, was anyone demanding he be given a 5 year contract on 100k a week? I wasn't.

The spin off between paying players too much is the risk of not tieing them down, and losing them for nothing, or peanuts.

Look at our current team. Van Persie is our only world class attacking player. Wilshere is potentially world class. Take away the 60k from Diaby, Almunia, Denilson and so on. These wages should go towards 3-4 new players who are determined players and willing to put a shift in.

The problem with this current team is there is no leaders, no one willing to work hard and get stuck in. It is old fashioned thinking in English football but I think that is what is required more than ever now. Just get stuck in ffs.

enfant terrible

meriwether wrote: »

Thats an isolated incident that proves nothing.

For instance, if Modric is on £40k a week he's underpaid. He's also paid less than (of thetop of my head guesses) Torres, Bosingwa, Kalou, Carroll, Carrick, Giggs (who is 37) and Adebayor, whois on £225k a week.

Its a freak event.

Fine he's almost earning a third of what Vincent Kompany makes at the richest club in the world, he's also the club captain.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2020036/Sergio-Aguero-causes-Manchester-City-rebellion-wages.html

Does Ferguson pay kids like Jenkison 20k a week at MU?

Radharc na Sleibhte

enfant terrible wrote: »

Does Ferguson pay kids like Jenkison 20k a week at MU?

I dont know, does he?

DB10

Why couldnt Coquelin be on 25k?
Seems about right?

Also on Djourou, come on lads the guy isn't good enough and has had his chances.

I would trim 20 players from that squad.