Gyms and Women only sections. Sexism or not?

Deus Ex Machina

If feminists really wanted equality it would be nonsense like this that they'd be railing against.

Nothingbetter2d

actually this also happens with women only insurance providers and nightclubs letting women only in for free before midnight.... ive never seen a club where men only are let in free before midnight.

Any time there was a men only club setup the women cried for equality... funny how it doesnt work in return.

Carlos Orange

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

If feminists really wanted equality it would be nonsense like this that they'd be railing against.

If feminists wanted equality they would have come up with a better name for their movement.

Deus Ex Machina

psinno wrote: »

If feminists wanted equality they would have come up with a better name for their movement.

But that's a sexy name, you can imagine them in lingerie or in BDSM torture dungeons more easily when you hear feminism than when you hear "women's rights". You know those bitches are just kinky.

secrecy_ie

I joined a well known gym a few years ago because it had a pool. As much as I hate men perving, I really didn't think it would be a problem until I started using the pool there.

There were a group of men that used the jacuzzi every day and spent their time drooling over all the women getting into the pool. It made me feel very self conscious and I avoided the pool after that, choosing to use the gym instead.

As much as I hated going to that pool and having all those perverted eyes on me, I have to agree that separating one part of the gym for women only - with no extra fee - is sexist. I'm all for equality but I don't think further segregation is the way to it.

If you really hate exercising around men - exercise from home or join Curves.

MyKeyG

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

actually this also happens with women only insurance providers

Well an EU court put an end to all that even though the choice to charge women less is based on statistics and not gender as such. It may eventually have some bearing on things like 'women only' in other areas regardless of the apparent justification.

On a positive note at least that feckin 'Sheila's Wheels' is off the telly.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/01/us-europe-insurance-idUSTRE7201MU20110301

AeoNGriM

secrecy_ie wrote: »

I joined a well known gym a few years ago because it had a pool. As much as I hate men perving, I really didn't think it would be a problem until I started using the pool there.

There were a group of men that used the jacuzzi every day and spent their time drooling over all the women getting into the pool. It made me feel very self conscious and I avoided the pool after that, choosing to use the gym instead.

As much as I hated going to that pool and having all those perverted eyes on me, I have to agree that separating one part of the gym for women only - with no extra fee - is sexist. I'm all for equality but I don't think further segregation is the way to it.

If you really hate exercising around men - exercise from home or join Curves.

Complain to the management? Women are good at complaining.

hatrickpatrick

If there's going to be one, there should be both. It's sexism if one gender gets an extra privilege and the other doesn't.

hatrickpatrick

keano_afc wrote: »

Do you go to Curves?

No, but the point is that women complain about this kind of thing if it happens in reverse, IE that golf club case a few years ago - that's why it's hypocritical.

In the same way as it would be hypocritical if I objected to women's only gym sections while maintaining that golf clubs should be allowed to discriminate.

Either discrimination is ok, or it isn't. It can't be slightly ok.

EDIT: In before I ridiculously get called a misogynist for objecting to double standards in society :rolleyes:

smallBiscuit

Is it sexist? Depends are women allowed to use the men's section? If so then yes it is.

First off the point made "Women feel uncomfortable being ogled at", I'm a bloke, but very conscious of stares (real or imagined) in a gym. Does that mean I should get my own private section?
Using the weights after somebody, male or female, I feel very conscious of the fact that they were lifting, say 60lb, and i have to reset to about 10lb.

Second, Women ogle men A quick google shows according to a survey, women ogle men half as much as men ogle women, but they do ogle, so ....

Third what about gays and lesbians, they will ogle their own sex, so that means not only are men not allowed in the women's section, neither are lesbians. Lets see the gay rights groups reaction to that!

OP, go into the women's section, when you kicked out sue for discrimination


Ladies, I'm sorry, I believe very strongly, not in women's rights, but in equality. We are all equal, regardless or sex or race or creed.

kylith

AeoNGriM wrote: »

Surely the answer is to remove some men instead of ALL women?

That's tricky though. Do you remove particular men because women say that they're looking at them funny? What constitutes leering?

I do agree that if there's a private women's area there should be a corresponding men's area.

HellFireClub

You can be fúcking sure if there was a men's only area it would be deemed illegal and would be on the RTE news.

pickarooney

biko wrote: »

LOL

http://life.bitchbuzz.com/rules-for-going-to-the-gym-everyone-should.html

It's not sexist if you make a sweeping generalisation, add a parenthetical "of course not all X are Y" and then continue on with the initial stereotype.

saa

Doesn't bother me, as long as I can gain access to an affordable gym,
If there was a mens only gym I doubt I'd want to go there anyway..

MagicSean

smallBiscuit wrote: »

Is it sexist? Depends are women allowed to use the men's section? If so then yes it is.

First off the point made "Women feel uncomfortable being ogled at", I'm a bloke, but very conscious of stares (real or imagined) in a gym. Does that mean I should get my own private section?
Using the weights after somebody, male or female, I feel very conscious of the fact that they were lifting, say 60lb, and i have to reset to about 10lb.

Second, Women ogle men A quick google shows according to a survey, women ogle men half as much as men ogle women, but they do ogle, so ....

Third what about gays and lesbians, they will ogle their own sex, so that means not only are men not allowed in the women's section, neither are lesbians. Lets see the gay rights groups reaction to that!

OP, go into the women's section, when you kicked out sue for discrimination


Ladies, I'm sorry, I believe very strongly, not in women's rights, but in equality. We are all equal, regardless or sex or race or creed.

Can't really put it better.

Op i think you said your college fees pay for this membership. I would be objecting strongly to that. David Norris might back your cause.

later12

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

No, but the point is that women complain about this kind of thing if it happens in reverse, IE that golf club case a few years ago - that's why it's hypocritical.

It would only be hypocritical if the same women were opposed to Portmarnock Golf Club's policy as who defend female only gyms (or perhaps sex segregation in gyms).

But quite possibly they're different women.

In the exact same way, can we say that the men opposed to sex segregation in gyms were opposed to Portmarnock's male only policy a few years ago?

I don't think we can be confident of that, no.

mikemac1

Batsy wrote: »

Maybe in Ireland, but in Britain men-only gyms could never exist. As soon as one is set up they'd be forced to close down again due to being "sexist."

In Britain even the Boy Scouts cannot be exclusively male now. The Boy Scouts now have to admit girls because apparently it's "sexist" for the BOY Scouts to have just boys in it.

Of course, boys are not allowed to join the Girl Guides, though.

That's not new and not exclusive to the UK

When I was in the Scouts [I know, I know] nearly two decades ago there were girl members.

It was known as the Catholic Boy Scouts of Ireland but had girl members.

And before anyone hones in on Catholic, I can't remember anything religious about it. That's the name of the organization.
Probably a branch in your town

Babybuff

used to working out in unisex gyms/sports arenas and generally prefer it that way, actually the thought of being in a womans only gym conjurs up images of women doing particularly womanly excercises ..like lots of aerobic workouts and leg warmers and I wouldn't be able to cut it.
BUT..
I don't think it's sexist in the terms of demeaning men by exclusion, the intention is not to devalue men but to give women a more comfortable place to workout.

I do know some women have hangups about their own bodies and would just maybe like to be able to work out without having to be so self conscious. It would be a little like some peoples opposition to unisex changing rooms, they just would feel more comfortable if they were less exposed. If men decided they wanted a same sex gym only for the same reason I wouldn't oppose it but as it stands I know of at least one gym that is unspokenly for men only. I mean I could go there but would be let know quick enough that I wasn't welcome. (specifically for weight training) I know this because my brother is a member and laughed when I asked if I could join.

reallyrose

I don't agree with women's only gyms. I'm not so terrified of men looking at me that I feel the need to avoid a gym. I mean, if I was worried about being ogled when I'm red in the face, sweaty and wishing I was dead in the gym, how should I feel when I'm out and about, looking presentable?

To be honest, I left my last gym because a little group of three women made it their business to make me feel bad about myself. A woman only gym wouldn't protect me from that!

The only advantage of a women's section of a gym that I can see is that such a section could have lighter weights. The heavier weights could be elsewhere so that the body-builders (who are probably mostly men?) could get their grunt on without sweating on people who just want to do a few curls!

Babybuff

reallyrose wrote: »

people who just want to do a few curls!

pass me the shiny pink 1lb dumbells I need to work my guns

later12

Babybuff wrote: »

I don't think it's sexist in the terms of demeaning men by exclusion, the intention is not to devalue men but to give women a more comfortable place to workout.

I do know some women have hangups about their own bodies and would just maybe like to be able to work out without having to be so self conscious

Do you think it ought to be permissible to ban lesbians from a female only gym?

CiaranC

later10 wrote: »

Do you think it ought to be permissible to ban lesbians from a female only gym?

Only if they look at other people. Maybe there should be chaperones in these gyms so the poor Irish women dont have people looking at them. Sure they dont like other women looking at them in the female changing rooms either, according to the last thread on here. Maybe the burka is the answer?

Babybuff

later10 wrote: »

Do you think it ought to be permissible to ban lesbians from a female only gym?

no, but then unless they are wearing a neon sign most other women wouldn't be aware that there are lesbians present. Don't get me wrong later, I think it's only fair if men are permitted to have their own space too, I just don't think it's intentionally an act of ill will toward men..for being men, more a case of women just being fussy. (fussy may not be the best term there but if they are willing to pay for comfort that they get from an all female group then that should be ok too)

Scanlas The 2nd

starbelgrade wrote: »

People are far too easy to play the sexism card these days. If there's a women only section it's because there's a demand for it & it makes good business sense to provide it.

There's nothing sexist about it as I'm sure that if men were looking for a men only section, then gyms would also start providing them.

So you'd have no problem with a whites only part of the gym if it made business sense.

later12

I'm just playing devil's advocate a little I guess Babybuff. I don't have a problem with women having their own gym (although the idea of sex segregation in the workout areas is far less palatable). But while it doesn't affect or bother me, surely it doesn't stand up to any logical scrutiny.

I'm a guy and even I sometimes feel a little intimidated in the weights section. I'm fairly average and there are some huge guys at my gym. I hate when I'm there lifting my puny weights and some enormous Goku is waiting me to walk away so he can do a real man's workout (or at least that's what my paranoia tells me).

Do I sometimes feel self conscious? Yes. Do I prefer working out around guys my own size. Definitely. Does that mean I,and the other lads my size should be allocated our own weights divisions? I don't think that's very practical, no.

metamorphosis

It's a business idea that works given there's demand for it.

It's not sexist.

Far more important things to care orgive a ****e about than a womens only section of the gym imho

later12

metamorphosis wrote: »

It's a business idea that works given there's demand for it.

It's not sexist.

Are these two comments supposed to be related?

If I write sexist, chauvinist, degrading books about the role of women, is the magnitude of their sexist content determined by their sales demand? I don't think so.

If you agree, I'm not sure what the relevance of your first comment is in the above quote.

Far more important things to care orgive a ****e about than a womens only section of the gym imho

Then don't bother posting on it

Babybuff

later10 wrote: »

I'm just playing devil's advocate a little I guess Buffybot.

don't think buffybot would be too happy if she thought there were two of us


As for performance, I can relate and generally it's easier for me working weights with men as they don't feel threatened by me and I don't feel I need to compete (all though sometimes I do try to impress them with my super human strength and ability to easily lift 1/4 what they would do on a bad day and with a head cold) When I'm surrounded by women I'm more concerned with how much they are lifting and how we compare, and mostly I didn't get close but then that was enough to motivate me to get stronger.

I've also had a couple of different trainers, 3 women and one man, I used to hope the man was there because I knew he would make sure I worked my arse off.

Solair

It's not just men who can be total perves at gyms. I was working out while two middle aged women, at least 30 years my senior, were discussing me loudly.
It's not flattering, it's bloody embarrassing.

To be perfectly honest, if you can't use a gym without perving, you might want to consider getting a girlfriend / boyfriend and a life! It's not the time nor the place!!

starbelgrade

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

So you'd have no problem with a whites only part of the gym if it made business sense.

That's a good question & does raise a lot of interesting angles on discrimination - be it on for reasons of positive or negative purposes.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it as the same principal still applies, but I wouldn't see it going down to well in the outside world!

later12

starbelgrade wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it

Interesting...
What about a whites only night club?

AeoNGriM

Babybuff wrote: »

I do know some women have hangups about their own bodies and would just maybe like to be able to work out without having to be so self conscious

(I must preface this by saying that I'm not directing this at anyone, especially not babybuff whose post I quoted. In fact, this is just a bunch of outraged rhetoric and should not be taken seriously. Especially not by sensitive women )

Maybe these women should workout at home then, with the curtains drawn and black plastic bags over their faces because no-one has any sort of expectation of privacy in a public area.

It would make me feel very uncomfortable working out in a gym where women have their own little private workout area, protected from the horde of testosterone oozing sex offenders hoping to see a pair of boobies bounce up and down under tight lycra, tarring ALL men with the dirty pervert brush as it does.

It would make me feel guilty, like I had done something wrong, or I was inherently and disgustingly dirty and therefore had to be kept away from the opposite sex. It would make me feel like I should be ashamed of my gender.

Should we have Women Only lanes on footpaths? Or Women Only footpaths? Maybe we could segregate the sexes entirely so that women never, ever have to put up with a man looking at her and, God forbid, find her slightly attractive?

Or maybe you guys could just stop being such monumentally entitled bitches and realise that you aren't special by right of being born with a vagina.

starbelgrade

later10 wrote: »

Interesting...
What about a whites only night club?

Again, I wouldn't have a problem with it personally - as long as other races / colours have the right to do so too.

I think that people who share a common bond - be it through sexual orientation, sex, religion, colour etc., - should be allowed to have their own clubs, groups etc. and to decide who may or may not be part of it.

later12

starbelgrade wrote: »

Again, I wouldn't have a problem with it personally - as long as other races / colours have the right to do so too.

I find the idea of such segregation - even on a voluntary basis - to be really disquieting. Such a pillarised social structure would be far too open to abuse and would be in danger of quietly developing into a systemic segregation of racial or ethnic groups such as in South Africa or Northern Ireland. I find it almost incredible that someone could feel it permissible.

I realise we are getting away from the issue of sex segregation by the way, which thankfully biology dictates should never become systemic.

later12

AeoNGriM wrote: »

and realise that you aren't special by right of being born with a vagina.

They kind of are tbh; being born with a vagina is a bit like finding willie wonka's golden ticket in your underpants

iregk

To be fair. The womens only sections in gyms are fine. The gym I used to go to I only once saw a woman in the free weights section so that was pretty much a men only area.

starbelgrade

later10 wrote: »

I find the idea of such segregation - even on a voluntary basis - to be really disquieting. Such a pillarised social structure would be far too open to abuse and would be in danger of quietly developing into a systemic segregation of racial or ethnic groups such as in South Africa or Northern Ireland. I find it almost incredible that someone could feel it permissible.

I realise we are getting away from the issue of sex segregation by the way, which thankfully biology dictates should never become systemic.

You have a point - I think the way it works at the minute is fair enough in that you can't discriminate based on sex, race etc., unless you can objectively justify the reason for doing so. Arguably, you can do this for the likes of male or female only gyms, but probably not so for the likes of "white only" nightclubs.

In that case, the principal probably isn't the same at all.

Spunge

Any man going to a "men only" gym would be labelled a homo.

Dudess

later10 wrote: »

AeoNGriM wrote: »

and realise that you aren't special by right of being born with a vagina.

They kind of are tbh; being born with a vagina is a bit like finding willie wonka's golden ticket in your underpants

Sigh.

It's depressing reading this shyte from even intelligent people.
Try saying that to a woman in Pakistan.

Just because men get treated like sh1t when it comes to some stuff - and they do, and it's appalling, but it doesn't mean it's fair to say nonsense like the above.
Men benefit due to their gender, they suffer due to their gender; for women it's the exact same.

Christ will the oneupmanship ever end...?

Captain_Generic

Everything's sexism these days. If you open a door for a woman, you're discriminating against women, unless you'd do the same for a man.
That's why I fart on buses

AeoNGriM

Spunge wrote: »

Any man going to a "men only" gym would be labelled a homo.

Calling a dude who's built like an Abrams Main Battle Tank a homo isn't exactly a bright idea is it?

Captain_Generic

AeoNGriM wrote: »

Calling a dude who's built like an Abrams Main Battle Tank a homo isn't exactly a bright idea is it?

He might poke you with his shriveled roid nub

later12

Dudess wrote: »

Sigh.

It's depressing reading this shyte from even intelligent people.
Try saying that to a woman in Pakistan.

Um, I wasn't being quite serious. I don't really equate vaginas with willy wonka golden tickets. :pac:

The idea that women enjoy a preferable inherent birthright than men is so absurd I should think it doesn't need explanation. I'm not being facetious or trying to offend any woman when I say I'm eternally grateful to have been born a man. In western society, ceteris paribus, being a man implies an easier, less dutiful life.

AeoNGriM

Dudess wrote: »

Sigh.

It's depressing reading this shyte from even intelligent people.
Try saying that to a woman in Pakistan.

Just because men get treated like sh1t when it comes to some stuff - and they do, and it's appalling, but it doesn't mean it's fair to say nonsense like the above.
Men benefit due to their gender, they suffer due to their gender; for women it's the exact same.

Christ will the oneupmanship ever end...?

Come on Dudess, you're a reasonably intelligent person, you can see behind the obvious sarcasm here. I don't hold any sort of grudge against women as a whole, however I object to the double standards that allows them to pick and choose what suits them and what doesn't when it comes to equality.

As long as women demand to be treated differently in certain situations, you can hardly expect credibility and support when you expect to be treated the same in others.

VinnyTGM

Captain_Generic wrote: »

He might poke you with his shriveled roid nub

Nice stereotyping there :rolleyes:

starbelgrade

AeoNGriM wrote: »

Come on Dudess, you're a reasonably intelligent person, you can see behind the obvious sarcasm here. I don't hold any sort of grudge against women as a whole, however I object to the double standards that allows them to pick and choose what suits them and what doesn't when it comes to equality.

As long as women demand to be treated differently in certain situations, you can hardly expect credibility and support when you expect to be treated the same in others.

Surely the only way of having the freedom to pick & choose - which I believe everyone should have - is by having equality in the first place?

later12

AeoNGriM wrote: »

you're a reasonably intelligent person

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xnBfo88WX4A/TRwvynlJ1iI/AAAAAAAAABI/iPmLb0HkM1Q/s320/ohnoyoudidnt.jpg

Captain_Generic

VinnyTGM wrote: »

Nice stereotyping there :rolleyes:

It's what I do best

hightower1

OP- yes, it is very sexist in answer to your question but lets call a spade a spade here women are pretty much selfish "have their cake and eat it" types when it comes to sexisim. They will want it to be a one way street with all the advantages and none of the disadvantages , when someone pulls them on it you will get "Oh you must be bitter over some woman" and / or "itz just a girliez thing xoxox giggle" :rolleyes:

Society as a whole sees right through the hypocritical stance of women wanting sexual equality to only benefit and not hinder them but that wont change anytime soon.

MagicSean

metamorphosis wrote: »

It's not sexist.

How can you justify this? By what definition of the word is the provision of extra services to a particular sex not sexist?