Gardai not leading by example on parking, says Irish Times journalist

Iwannahurl

Anne Marie Hourihane has a strongly worded piece on this topic in today's Irish Times (the online version anyway).

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0116/1224310308457.html

To put things in perspective first, she does acknowledge some serious challenges AGS have to deal with on a daily basis:

The Garda does a very good job a lot of the time. In dealing with the demented, the suicidal, the mentally ill, the homeless, the furious, the drunk and the just plain crazy, it performs a thankless task. This is the work which is truly heroic, and for which there should be lavish Garda medals.

However:

No matter how considerable the Garda’s virtues, police abuse of the parking system makes this country look – and worse still, feel – like a banana republic.

Don't hold back, Anne Marie, tell us what you really think!

I gather she experiences this phenomenon primarily as a pedestrian. In which case, I agree with her. As a pedestrian I am continually frustrated by this problem, and as I see it motorists' chronic lawbreaking and lack of consideration in this regard is compounded by apathy and lack of good example among the enforcers. That includes Local Authorities and their Traffic Wardens, by the way.

How difficult can it be to park in a manner that clearly shows respect for the law, for civic duty and for the needs of pedestrians and disabled people?


.

King Ludvig

If I call the Gardaí for assistance, frankly I dont care where/how they park. In fact, if it was an urgent call and they spent 10 minutes looking for a 'proper' parking space I'd be pretty annoyed.

Even on less urgent calls I'd prefere to see them operating as efficiently as possible given the nature of their work, and not driving around all day looking for parking.

BrianD

It is rather irritating to see private cars parked in official Garda spaces outside Harcourt St. Garda Station. Particularly the two that are usually parked up on the pavement at the pedestrian crossing barely leaving the minimum legal space for a footpath.. This is illegal. If you working you need to pay for parking like the rest of us.

Also unmarked official cars tend to be left very close to the junction of Harcourt Road and Hatch St. Upper directly opposite the Tripod entrance. This impedes traffic - particularly buses - crossing the tram line onto Hatch St. This is unaceptable.

The other thing is the coach parking opposite the Harcourt Hotelbeing utilised by a variety of private and official cars while other road users (mainly, guests of the hotel would seem). The clampers seemed reluctant to take action when I pointed this out to them. The tourists were an easy lay.

Love the way the Pearse St. guys park with the hand brakes off so they can push each others cars out of the way. Surprised the local bad guys haven't copped that one yet.

Fair article to me. Time for a few memos to go out. You can live with private cars of Gardai using the official garda bays (as long as I can too) but the parking on the foot path on Harcourt St. and the dangerous parking on Hatch St. is unacceptable.

BrianD

King Ludvig wrote: »

If I call the Gardaí for assistance, frankly I dont care where/how they park. In fact, if it was an urgent call and they spent 10 minutes looking for a 'proper' parking space I'd be pretty annoyed.

Even on less urgent calls I'd prefere to see them operating as efficiently as possible given the nature of their work, and not driving around all day looking for parking.

She's not talking about Gardai out and about o the call of duty.

happyhappy

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Anne Marie Hourihan has a strongly worded piece on this topic in today's Irish Times (the online version anyway).

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0116/1224310308457.html

To put things in perspective first, she does acknowledge some serious challenges AGS have to deal with on a daily basis:

The Garda does a very good job a lot of the time. In dealing with the demented, the suicidal, the mentally ill, the homeless, the furious, the drunk and the just plain crazy, it performs a thankless task. This is the work which is truly heroic, and for which there should be lavish Garda medals.

However:

No matter how considerable the Garda’s virtues, police abuse of the parking system makes this country look – and worse still, feel – like a banana republic.

Don't hold back, Anne Marie, tell us what you really think!

I gather she experiences this phenomenon primarily as a pedestrian. In which case, I agree with her. As a pedestrian I am continually frustrated by this problem, and as I see it motorists' chronic lawbreaking and lack of consideration in this regard is compounded by apathy and lack of good example among the enforcers. That includes Local Authorities and their Traffic Wardens, by the way.

How difficult can it be to park in a manner that clearly shows respect for the law, for civic duty and for the needs of pedestrians and disabled people?

Maybe she should look into how the legal and political elite managed to spend 200 million on the new ccj building on Parkgate street and put NO parking for Garda vehicles in it. How does she think that prisoners, exhibits, witnesses, etc get to court!

Also it is hardly the fault of Gardai working in pearse st and harcourt sq that there is no carpark in one and the carpark in the other is completely inadequate!

have_a_go_hero

i dont think its emerengcy calls people are complaininig about but when you see a squad car parked on double yellow lines outside subway and the gardai queueing up inside for lunch!

Uriel.

I do agree with some of the examples posted in respect of a poor example being given. But for the most part individual Garda cannot be blamed. The facilities (of all manner) provided in most stations is poor.

Garda need to drive their private cars to work. Their commute is regularly outside normal public transport hours, they often carry considerablre equipment with them and unlike most hospital workers for example large, secure staff car parks just aren't available.

The frustration should be directed towards Dept ofJustice and OPW and not garda

Reloc8

I think she's probably reflecting the views of a large amount of people (myself included) who drive to work or elsewhere and have to park legally & pay for it.

My own view is that garda vehicles parked illegally 'on duty' including court appearances or whatever is a different matter and the exemption in the RTA's applies anyway - which the author of the piece doesn't seem to be aware of.

Mr Simpson

happyhappy wrote: »

Maybe she should look into how the legal and political elite managed to spend 200 million on the new ccj building on Parkgate street and put NO parking for Garda vehicles in it. How does she think that prisoners, exhibits, witnesses, etc get to court!

AFAIK all prisoners in the CCJ are brought through the underground car park

Victor

happyhappy wrote: »

Maybe she should look into how the legal and political elite managed to spend 200 million on the new ccj building on Parkgate street and put NO parking for Garda vehicles in it. How does she think that prisoners, exhibits, witnesses, etc get to court!

Train, tram, bus, taxi, cycle, walk or use the really big car park at Garda HQ.

Also it is hardly the fault of Gardai working in pearse st and harcourt sq that there is no carpark in one and the carpark in the other is completely inadequate!

There are 100 bus routes, two tram lines and several train stations that serve the area around Pearse Street.

Uriel. wrote: »

Garda need to drive their private cars to work.

Why?

Their commute is regularly outside normal public transport hours,

Many in Harcourt Square are probably on 9-5, another chunk will be on 2-10.
Ans what this commute lark? Gardaí are paid €4,000 per year to live near their station.

they often carry considerablre equipment with them

O rly? Do they take their riot shields home with them?

Regardless, how does this entitle them to (a) break the law (b) cause traffic congestion and obstruct the fire station route from Pearse Street?

And if there are security concerns about a journalist writing down registration numbers, why park at a Garda station in the first place?

Mr Jinx

Victor wrote: »

Train, tram, bus, taxi, cycle, walk or use the really big car park at Garda HQ.

Big carpark at HQ full to the brim with people working in HQ

There are 100 bus routes, two tram lines and several train stations that serve the area around Pearse Street.

Not at 2am or 6am when most night shifts finish

Why?
Many in Harcourt Square are probably on 9-5, another chunk will be on 2-10.
Ans what this commute lark? Gardaí are paid €4,000 per year to live near their station.

Im not sure if the that allowance states you have to live near your station

O rly? Do they take their riot shields home with them?

No, but they might have to start their next tour of duty at another station, court or venue, ie. croke park, aviva etc

Regardless, how does this entitle them to (a) break the law (b) cause traffic congestion and obstruct the fire station route from Pearse Street?

it doesnt. They should still park responsibily..

And if there are security concerns about a journalist writing down registration numbers, why park at a Garda station in the first place?

,,

Uriel.

Victor wrote: »

Why?
Many in Harcourt Square are probably on 9-5, another chunk will be on 2-10.
Ans what this commute lark? Gardaí are paid €4,000 per year to live near their station.

Why do you think many in Harcourt Street are 9 to 5?
The various shifts while being 2 to 10, 10 to 6 6 to 2 etc... rarely finish at the specified time on the button.

O rly? Do they take their riot shields home with them?

No they don't carry their riot shields with them, I have no idea why you have to bring yourself down to such a silly level with that kind of comment.

They often have plenty of other items and equipment with them.

Regardless, how does this entitle them to (a) break the law (b) cause traffic congestion and obstruct the fire station route from Pearse Street?

Never said it entitles them to break the law. Most of the time in Pearse cars can be moved at a moments notice even if the member in question is not readily available. I have never seen traffic congestion caused here because of same

BrianD

happyhappy wrote: »

Also it is hardly the fault of Gardai working in pearse st and harcourt sq that there is no carpark in one and the carpark in the other is completely inadequate!

Nor is it the responsibility of AGS to provide parking either. However, there's no shortage of parking spaces within walking distance of either station. Here's a solution for Harcourt St. - Stephens Green Car Park. Good overnight rates too.

Bear in mind the majority of offending cars at Harcourt St. and Pearse St. are privately owned vehicles and not official Garda vehicles.

uriel wrote:

Never said it entitles them to break the law. Most of the time in Pearse cars can be moved at a moments notice even if the member in question is not readily available. I have never seen traffic congestion caused here because of same

Because most don't have their hand brakes applied! Hardly good practice either. Sure we can all claim that our illegally parked cars can be moved at a moments notice.

I don't think any member of the force can condone parking of two vehicles every day on the pavement at a busy intersection. You can even see them on Google Streetview.

bluetop

As far as the parking on Pearse Street is concerned, this is a bus only street, so cars are "not" allowed use that street for access, so cars parked there are not obstructing anybody, there is plenty of room for the buses to get up the street at anytime of the day.

Parking for vehicles owned by garda personal outside these stations is down to no parking been available for them, first off you have personnel coming in at 5am in the morning with some of them having to carry their equipment with them, then you have them going home at god knows what hour of the day or night, depending on court appearances etc, i think if this reporter was to go around town they would see a lot more people that park all over the place.

What about the Westmorland St junction and the quays, sometimes these taxi guys are actually parked right across the pedestrian crossing, then you have the taxis on the bottom of Grafton street parked all the way down right on to college green, despite there been only a dedicated 5 parking spaces, next we have Suffolk street "NO" parking for taxis here yet they are all the way including parked right across the pedestrian crossing on to Suffolk street, top of Grafton street again taxis 3 deep here completely blocking the outside lane from getting around the green.

Now where was the Journalist who seems to be picking and choosing who is parking in the wrong, when all the taxis are at this 24/7, even when the Garda move them on, they return within 10 mins, then we have fleet street "NO" taxi rank here yet any night you will get up to 30 taxis parking here actually blocking the emergency vehicles getting down the street, the corner of Georges street and Dame street 5 parking bays for taxi, these actually stretch right up to the junction, and the buses cannot get down from Georges st to dame street, i suggest this author concentrate on all vehicles blocking up the streets all over Dublin city not to mention the taxis stopping anywhere and everywhere regardless and doing U turns in the middle of the road as well.

Victor

bluetop - "Gardaí not leading by example on parking" is the title of the thread and article. Where do you think the taxis are getting the idea?

bluetop wrote: »

As far as the parking on Pearse Street is concerned, this is a bus only street, so cars are "not" allowed use that street for access, so cars parked there are not obstructing anybody, there is plenty of room for the buses to get up the street at anytime of the day.

Usually, but not always.

Parking for vehicles owned by garda personal outside these stations is down to no parking been available for them, first off you have personnel coming in at 5am in the morning

Are you saying that someone else is hogging all the parking at 5am?

BrianD

bluetop wrote: »

As far as the parking on Pearse Street is concerned, this is a bus only street, so cars are "not" allowed use that street for access, so cars parked there are not obstructing anybody, there is plenty of room for the buses to get up the street at anytime of the day.

Parking for vehicles owned by garda personal outside these stations is down to no parking been available for them, first off you have personnel coming in at 5am in the morning with some of them having to carry their equipment with them, then you have them going home at god knows what hour of the day or night, depending on court appearances etc, i think if this reporter was to go around town they would see a lot more people that park all over the place.

What about the Westmorland St junction and the quays, sometimes these taxi guys are actually parked right across the pedestrian crossing, then you have the taxis on the bottom of Grafton street parked all the way down right on to college green, despite there been only a dedicated 5 parking spaces, next we have Suffolk street "NO" parking for taxis here yet they are all the way including parked right across the pedestrian crossing on to Suffolk street, top of Grafton street again taxis 3 deep here completely blocking the outside lane from getting around the green.

Now where was the Journalist who seems to be picking and choosing who is parking in the wrong, when all the taxis are at this 24/7, even when the Garda move them on, they return within 10 mins, then we have fleet street "NO" taxi rank here yet any night you will get up to 30 taxis parking here actually blocking the emergency vehicles getting down the street, the corner of Georges street and Dame street 5 parking bays for taxi, these actually stretch right up to the junction, and the buses cannot get down from Georges st to dame street, i suggest this author concentrate on all vehicles blocking up the streets all over Dublin city not to mention the taxis stopping anywhere and everywhere regardless and doing U turns in the middle of the road as well.

You really not going to justify this behaviour? Are you? Come on?

The parking of private cars of AGS is their own business, their own problem and their own expense. There is plenty of 24hr public parking available in the city within walking distance of either station.

What equipment would you be carrying??

The Taxi parking is really something AGS should be sorting out as well. Seems to be no action being undertaken there either.

MagicSean

BrianD wrote: »

Nor is it the responsibility of AGS to provide parking either. However, there's no shortage of parking spaces within walking distance of either station. Here's a solution for Harcourt St. - Stephens Green Car Park. Good overnight rates too.

Bear in mind the majority of offending cars at Harcourt St. and Pearse St. are privately owned vehicles and not official Garda vehicles.



Because most don't have their hand brakes applied! Hardly good practice either. Sure we can all claim that our illegally parked cars can be moved at a moments notice.

I don't think any member of the force can condone parking of two vehicles every day on the pavement at a busy intersection. You can even see them on Google Streetview.

The problem is that when Gardaí don't park near their stations it would not be unusual to find damage done to their vehicles.

BrianD

MagicSean wrote: »

The problem is that when Gardaí don't park near their stations it would not be unusual to find damage done to their vehicles.

This is getting laughable now. What happens when they go shopping on Saturday?

MagicSean

Victor wrote: »

bluetop - "Gardaí not leading by example on parking" is the title of the thread and article. Where do you think the taxis are getting the idea?

Usually, but not always.

Are you saying that someone else is hogging all the parking at 5am?

The night shift.

MagicSean

BrianD wrote: »

This is getting laughable now. What happens when they go shopping on Saturday?

I think you undersestimate how big of an issue this is.

BrianD

MagicSean wrote: »

I think you undersestimate how big of an issue this is.

I don't think I have and it still doesn't justify illegal parking in any case.

bluetop

With all that is going on in the Country at the moment, people should be more concerned about that, rather than the parking of cars, water charges, bin charges, household charges, soon none of us will be able to drive our cars let alone park them and of course the rocket fuel prices, wonder what they will find next to bitch about.

Iwannahurl

MagicSean wrote: »

The problem is that when Gardaí don't park near their stations it would not be unusual to find damage done to their vehicles.

What is the evidence that such damage is being done to any significant degree?

How do the perpetrators of the criminal damage know that the vehicles are privately owned by Gardai?

If such targeted criminal damage is as widespread and frequent as you seem to be claiming, AGS ought to be taking it very seriously. Have these attacks been highlighted by the GRA and AGSI? What has AGS done to detect these recurring crimes and prosecute the offenders?

bluetop wrote: »

With all that is going on in the Country at the moment, people should be more concerned about that, rather than the parking of cars, water charges, bin charges, household charges, soon none of us will be able to drive our cars let alone park them and of course the rocket fuel prices, wonder what they will find next to bitch about.

Plenty of other forums and threads for those What About issues. Feel free to contribute to them.

This kind of behaviour (ie obnoxious parking, bad example to the public and inconsistent enforcement) has been going on for years.

if every single official vehicle that is attached to a unit in harcourt square actually tried to park in there together, there would not be any parking available for about a one mile radius of harcourt square.

just pointing that out.

i believe if you check the vehicles parked on harcourt st/hatch st they ARE official vehicles, where does the public suggest the Gardai park these official vehicles when the drivers are in harcourt square??

bluetop

To be honest here this thread to me is more like a media publicity effort to see what peoples views are on this, we might even see some of the views expressed here in tomorrows rag, who knows, the media always pulling stunts like this.

Iwannahurl

bubblypop wrote: »

if every single official vehicle that is attached to a unit in harcourt square actually tried to park in there together, there would not be any parking available for about a one mile radius of harcourt square.

just pointing that out.

i believe if you check the vehicles parked on harcourt st/hatch st they ARE official vehicles, where does the public suggest the Gardai park these official vehicles when the drivers are in harcourt square??

A "one mile" radius?

Really?

Let's test that claim.

What is the number of "official vehicles" involved?

Iwannahurl

bluetop wrote: »

To be honest here this thread to me is more like a media publicity effort to see what peoples views are on this, we might even see some of the views expressed here in tomorrows rag, who knows, the media always pulling stunts like this.

Nonsense.

The Irish Times isn't a rag, and I don't work for them (unfortunately).

Just deal with the issues raised, which, as the Garda Inspectorate themselves say, are about AGS showing civic responsibility and good example to the public.

coolhandluke

It is what it is, don't feed the trolls people.

Iwannahurl

Please don't try to hide behind that lazy -- and unjustified -- accusation.

Anne Marie Hourihane is a serious journalist and the Irish Times is a serious newspaper. I think her article merits a serious response, which is why I posted it.

MagicSean

Iwannahurl wrote: »

What is the evidence that such damage is being done to any significant degree?

I've seen it.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

How do the perpetrators of the criminal damage know that the vehicles are privately owned by Gardai?

They often know where we live

Iwannahurl wrote: »

If such targeted criminal damage is as widespread and frequent as you seem to be claiming, AGS ought to be taking it very seriously. Have these attacks been highlighted by the GRA and AGSI? What has AGS done to detect these recurring crimes and prosecute the offenders?

You seem to be under the impression it's the same person or group doing it. Some people just decide to take a bit of vengence when they are released from custody. Some just take a swipe at the cars when they are passing. Some of them are caught and prosecuted but it doesn't affect the mind of the next person who does it.

Turner

What do you think would happen to Garda patrol cars if they were parked on hatch street down as far as the national concert hall ??

Criminals would have a field day, wing mirrors, tyres and probably a few in flames.

Remember we pay for these cars with with our taxes...

I would much prefer to see them parked outside HQ with CCTV cameras monitoring them and Gardai on gate duty only metres away.

They are not blocking anybody, traffic or pedestrians. Those parked on kerbs are parked on very wide kerbs with enough space to fit a treble buggy past.

Articles like this always get a good response because the public are jealous of the fact that parking regulations do not apply to Gardai. And they dont apply for a very good reason.

And the people who do give out here will be the first people to complain when they are arrested some night and paraded 700m down a packed street in handcuffs to a Garda car that is parked in a multi story car park!!