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Gardai not leading by example on parking, says Irish Times journalist
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Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »A lot of people work far from their homes and outside hours of public transport yet they manage fine without operating under the presumption that they are exempt from sections of the law so I don't think that's a valid excuse to be perfectly honest.
Despite my username I'm no legal eagle so can't offer an argument against this and will have to defer to your argument for now.
However, I would presume if it is as you assert above then parking on a footpath in order to be as close as possible to the station is not really in keeping with the spirit of the law, is that a fair point?
I'm not being facetious here but it would appear that yes they are indeed happy to park there as clearly they continue to do so rather than seeking out alternative spaces in the same as everyone else.
I would again state that I can't offer any argument on the legal side of it as I'm not versed in the legislation. However, as above, I would argue that it is not in keeping with the spirit and intention of the law.
On your second point; do you curse/smoke in front of your kids or your friends kids? I'm going to pre-empt your answer and say no you don't.
It's the same principle; You have authority over those in your care but you don't set a bad a example as you know it will be followed.
These are the core issues, IMO.
The Garda Inspectorate, as quoted by me earlier, has stated clearly what is expected of AGS members in the normal course of events (as opposed to emergency situations).
IMO the Inspectorate shouldn't have to point out what ought to be obvious in terms of consideration for others. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, it seems clear that AGS members don't regard themselves as being workers or citizens the same as everyone else.
This means, in the context of the OP, that many of them couldn't give a monkey's about where they park, how they park, who is affected by the obnoxious parking and what the effect on public perceptions might be of such blatant not-giving-a-monkeys behaviour.
It is clear to me that such disregard for traffic law and for the safety and convenience of others, especially pedestrians and the disabled, contributes to our culture of individualism and laxity in relation to compliance, civic responsibility and enforcement. Such attitudes displayed at official level breed cynicism and apathy among the citizenry, IMO, to the extent that compliance is seen as weak, foolish and self-defeating, and enforcement an affront to civil liberties and "common sense".
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Why would they be carrying anything to their private cars? And why would they build a car park at Store St when it's well served by public transport and local parking facilities? Underground car parks are incredibly expensive to build and maintain - parking isn't free.
Harcourt Street is a different matter. The private parking facilities inside are required in many cases for specific units and members who must protect their identities.Fair enough
My problem is that I don't think most people realise how expensive it is to provide and maintain underground or multi-story parking. People might be willing to pay for it but not if they knew full cost of providing it. In any case, if parking is provided nearby, why duplicate it?
Out of curiosity (and not related to the thread) why do you need to carry all that stuff? Are you regularly assigned to different stations in the same week?
It can be installed when building new stations. It should be standard really in any modern built station. The benefits far outweigh the possible upkeep costs. At the very least it provides more parking for members of the public who wish to come into a station.Iwannahurl wrote: »These are the core issues, IMO.
The Garda Inspectorate, as quoted by me earlier, has stated clearly what is expected of AGS members in the normal course of events (as opposed to emergency situations).
You misunderstand the role of the inspectorate. They analyse the organisation and make recommendations as to how to improve it.Iwannahurl wrote: »IMO the Inspectorate shouldn't have to point out what ought to be obvious in terms of consideration for others. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, it seems clear that AGS members don't regard themselves as being workers or citizens the same as everyone else.
They aren't. An Garda Síochána has a unique role that cannot be compared to any other job that I can think of.Iwannahurl wrote: »This means, in the context of the OP, that many of them couldn't give a monkey's about where they park, how they park, who is affected by the obnoxious parking and what the effect on public perceptions might be of such blatant not-giving-a-monkeys behaviour.
Excellent work at misusing a quote. The poster you quoted clearly indicated that he wouldn't park in a place that was obstructing anything. That's a disgraceful misrepresentation of what he said. it has been explained to you why the parking is sometimes necessary for safety too.Iwannahurl wrote: »It is clear to me that such disregard for traffic law and for the safety and convenience of others, especially pedestrians and the disabled, contributes to our culture of individualism and laxity in relation to compliance, civic responsibility and enforcement. Such attitudes displayed at official level breed cynicism and apathy among the citizenry, IMO, to the extent that compliance is seen as weak, foolish and self-defeating, and enforcement an affront to civil liberties and "common sense".
You say disregard to traffic law. You have been shown how the traffic laws do not apply to members in these cases. You obviously chose to ignore that because it didn't suit your agenda.Iwannahurl wrote: »
Is this supposed to be a members car? Or is it possible a parking permit was given to someone while they wait for their disabled badge? I don't know any Gardaí that abuse disabled spaces. It's just not accepted in the job.Iwannahurl wrote: »
What makes you think it's Garda owned?Iwannahurl wrote: »
Ridiculous and pointless picture to post. The car owners are with the car and likely moving off. It's not relevant to the thread at all.0 -
You misunderstand the role of the inspectorate. They analyse the organisation and make recommendations as to how to improve it.
I don't. Their report on Roads Policing speaks for itself.
They aren't. An Garda Síochána has a unique role that cannot be compared to any other job that I can think of.
The Inspectorate expects AGS to set a good example for the general public. If AGS has a unique and special place in our society, then that is a very good reason for striving to set a good example. And for actually giving a monkey's.
Excellent work at misusing a quote. The poster you quoted clearly indicated that he wouldn't park in a place that was obstructing anything. That's a disgraceful misrepresentation of what he said.
Your definition of what is "disgraceful" is rather narrow, I would suggest. IRL I routinely encounter (a) Garda vehicles and Garda-owned vehicles obstructing footpaths, (b) obnoxious/illegal parking being ignored or even facilitated by AGS members. Not giving a monkey's about such obstruction is endemic, in my view.
You say disregard to traffic law. You have been shown how the traffic laws do not apply to members in these cases. You obviously chose to ignore that because it didn't suit your agenda.
Ah, that old Boards chestnut: my "agenda". Good manners, consideration for others and civic responsibility ought to be a given, IMO, especially among the members of a professional organisation that is beyond compare as you suggest.
Is this supposed to be a members car? Or is it possible a parking permit was given to someone while they wait for their disabled badge? I don't know any Gardaí that abuse disabled spaces. It's just not accepted in the job.
It was a Garda-owned car. The car park in question is well-stocked daily with Garda-owned cars parked in P&D spaces with no parking tickets on display. OTOH, Garda diaries and other AGS identifiers are put on clear display, with the sole function of getting exemption from having to pay for parking like any normal citizen. No worries about criminal damage there, for some strange reason.
What makes you think it's Garda owned?
Garda diary on the dash. The kids were inside the school while the fire exit was blocked. When I pointed this out to a Garda on duty nearby he said "you'd want to watch yourself". A traffic warden came by shortly after, checked for the presence of an AGS diary, and then did nothing either.
Ridiculous and pointless picture to post. The car owners are with the car and likely moving off. It's not relevant to the thread at all.
Your excuses for obnoxious/illegal parking, OTOH, are imaginative. Keep 'em coming!
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You do. They make observations and reccommendations on best practice. That is all. Garda management decide policy.
I don't. The role of the Inspectorate is to promote excellence and accountability in the Garda Síochána. Tough job, it seems.
Striving is all very good but if the facilities aren't there what can they do?
Cities and towns all over this country are well supplied with parking spaces within a reasonable walking distance of stations. That doesn't stop both AGS members and the general public from parking illegally/obnoxiously, most especially on footpaths. It is commonplace to see members of the general public parking illegally in the vicinity of Garda stations. Why do they seem to believe that they won't be ticketed, I wonder?
You still completely misrepresented that posters view with a tactical quote. I've explained to you how it is both legal and often necessary. Unfortunately you seem to be intent on ognoring these points.
I haven't. The poster originated the phrase about not giving a monkey's in this thread, not me. What I'm suggesting is that the phrase neatly encapsulates the attitude of some members of AGS as well as many members of the general public, ie motorists who couldn't care less where they park, especially if it's only pedestrians that are affected. The two phenomena are not unrelated.
How do you know they are Garda owned? I would be a little concerned as to how you have so many photos of what you claim to be members private vehicles
Touch of innuendo there, perhaps? I would suggest that if AGS members don't want their cars to be identified, then they shouldn't display Garda Credit Union diaries and similar items bearing the Garda crest/logo. Of course, that might expose them to being fined for not displaying a valid Pay & Display ticket, and we couldn't have that, could we? Incidentally, displaying such Garda identifiers so openly suggests no concern at all about the potential for criminal damage, which IIRC you suggested was a 'big issue'.
Just as an aside, there is no "Garda Diary". Are you referring to the one given out by the credit unions, the IPA or the GRA? Or do you just see a diary and make an assumption. In any case, you again seem to be ignoring the fact that while it is certainly inconsiderate, it is not illegal.
There appears to be a range of items bearing the Garda crest/logo. The connection, and the reasons for display, are obvious IMO. I have referred repeatedly to illegal/obnoxious parking, which I hope makes it clear where I stand on the issue.
I haven't made excuses. I've explained to you why it is not illegal and I have explained to you why it is necessary to park near the station. After continuosly demanding proof and then being supplied with it you then promptly chose to ignore the points altogether and move on to posting the registraion numbers of what you consider to be Garda owned vehciles without any proof they are Garda owned. You have also tried to misquote and misrepresent peoples opinions. It is clear that discussing this matter with you is a pointless endevour. I sincerely hope you don't work for the media because I would despair for the industry if this is the manner in which investigations are conducted and stories are written.
You made excuses for one of the obnoxious/illegal parkers, as in a sense did the two officers who walked by and ignored the footpath obstruction (which I had to go round by walking on the road with my child in a buggy). This is a daily occurrence in my neck of the woods, and on certain occasions widespread, rampant and highly-visible is not only ignored but actually facilitated by the enforcers (Local Authority and AGS). Their list of excuses is legend. My biggest objection is to the abuse of pedestrian faciities and disabled parking bays, but even this obnoxious behaviour is often studiously ignored.
EDIT: I'd also question the age of the photos as there are a number of things that would indicate to me they are quite out-dated.
Some of my pics are a few years old, but what of it? Nothing has changed, and if I went for a long walk around town I could come back with a hundred more the same (the vast majority being obnoxious/illegal parkers from the general public of course). It is self-evident, IMO, that no effective enforcement is taking place, and part of the problem is a lack of concern on the part of the enforcers. Many motorists obstruct footpaths as a matter of routine, and they seem totally confident that nobody will do anything about it. Indeed, some of them gloat about it.
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This discussion has been closed.
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