Gardai not leading by example on parking, says Irish Times journalist

Geansai

Our man in Havana wrote: »

I have just sent Anne Marie Hourihane an email pointing her here so she can see how well her article went down.

In repect of Anne Marie Hourihanes article, I think it went down as she would have hoped. It was raised a discussion and debate about the situation.

Giving her her due respect, the article was not "Garda Bashing" or anti-gaurd, but it was pointing out just one item which she felt was inappropriate.

Throughout the last number of days I have been reading this thread, with much amusement. Unfortunately, in the end it all boils down to this.

1) The Gardai do not have adequate parking at their places of work

2) The gardai may or may not be exempt from the traffic laws whilst they park their car when in their stations at work (the case given for the pro case was in very different circumstances and so there is a reasonable chance it is not relevant) (also ingoring calling to a scene here as it may be more reasonable to do so in this circumstance)

3) Whilst we acknowlege that Gardai do an excellant job and from time to time (but hopefully not too often) we do need their support, does this excuse their traffic law violations, which appear to be for their convenience.

The article was written from the point of view that the Gardai are the ones (amongst others such as warderns) enforcing these restrictions on the general public. Therefore should example be set by them.

And whilst the excuses of long hours, quick changeovers and inadequate parking were all made (and all very valid excuses) would a garda accept these if an accountant or an engineer made them whilst they was being given a ticket or being towed away?

Personally I don't so.

deadwood

Haven't they heard of this crowd?
http://www.dublinbikes.ie/

A few bike stations out in the commuter belt would facilitate the lads. Cheap transpor, environmentally friendly, guards with buns of steel - every one's a winner!

..or this scheme?
http://www.biketowork.ie

Surely with the huge uptake, work places (Private fat cat and poor put-upon puberlick slaves included) all over the country are now cluttered with shiny new bikes?

Iwannahurl

cursai wrote: »

Patrol cars parked on footpaths. If they had spaces to park I'm sure they'd use then.
Whoever stuck up those photos needs to get a life and grow up. Creepy.

More denial, more excuses, more shooting the messenger. The same old self-serving nonsense I hear from the supposed law enforcers IRL about this issue.

As for "creepy" people who need to "get a life and grow up", I would suggest that such comments might be more appropriately addressed to AGS members who abuse their powers by (a) behaving in a lazy and inconsiderate manner when parking their vehicles and (b) threatening law-abiding citizens who object to such behaviour. I have encountered both far too often.

You can't be sure about the facts as illustrated in those photos, because you know nothing of the circumstances. I do, and I know they had alternatives.

For example, in one case there is a municipal car park immediately adjacent. This is well-stocked with the private cars of state employees, ie Gardai, who place certain items on their dashboards in order to get free parking courtesy of the Local Authority (ie ratepayers and taxpayers ultimately).

Doctorates in rocket science not being required, it would be a straightforward matter for AGS and the Local Authority (who in any case work together statutorily on traffic matters) to devise a scheme whereby official Garda vehicles have dedicated spaces in the municipal car park. The state employees could then park their private vehicles in nearby on-street Pay & Display spaces. Of course this would require said state employees to walk a few hundred metres from their parking spot to their workplace, but I would suggest that's not too onerous for grown-ups.

In the situation where the car is blocking a school fire exit while the children were inside, there's P&D parking in the immediate vicinity and a regularly half-empty municipal car park a mere 5-minute walk away.

AGS may have legal protection that permits them to park in a manner that would be illegal (and therefore subject to a FCN, clamp or tow-away) for ordinary citizens.

However, in non-emergency situations there is absolutely no compelling reason for parking obnoxiously. Parking on footpaths and in disabled spaces is obnoxious and unnecessary, IMO, yet footpath parking in particular is so common as to be completely normal. This gives very bad example to motorists and makes second-class citizens of pedestrians, children, wheelchair users and their carers, visually-impaired people and senior citizens who may need support to walk. Why should any citizen have to give way to a machine on pedestrian space, even if the machine operator is a Garda? Is the machine holy because it's a car, and sacred because it's a Garda's car?

Such carry-on is lazy, unprofessional and brings the law into disrepute, IMO. It also runs directly counter to public policy such as the Pedestrian Safety Action Plan 2010-2014:

The Gardaí and the Local Authorities will enforce strictly the regulation pertaining to parking of vehicles on footpaths.

In my view, no such strict enforcement is taking place, AGS is as guilty as anyone else of footpath parking, and the general public take their cue from Garda behaviour and inaction.

TBH, it disgusts me that any Garda officer would seek, in this thread or IRL, to weasel out of their responsibilities in this regard.

MagicSean

BrianD wrote: »

Really? you have yet to demonstrate where the law states that a Garda may park his private car on a pavement or on a public street or in a bay marked Official Garda vehicles only. Clearly there is nothing to support this breach of the law.

Only the sloppy Gardai would do this. And as a member of the public and a taxpayer I continue to see this sloppy behaviour every day. You need to look no further then the members propped up against the GPO texting their mates.

It's annoying - get your act together and behave professionally. Illegal parking is not professional.

I don't park illegally but thanks for the suggestion.

Post number 79 links to the law which exempts gardai from all but a few road traffic laws.

And driving on chiefs does not mean driving without a licence.

deadwood

Wow, that article really pushed some buttons. That's what happens when we get ideas above our station and read the paper of record, I guess.

I cringe when I see Garda vehicles illegally parked. It reflects badly on us all. Lets not deliberately confuse emergency responses with parking.

In saying that, if the spots reserved for Chiefs, Supers etc., in many larger stations, were freed up for official vehicles that would allow the vehicles used most to park nearest the doors! I know of some work places where management are directed to allow the drones park in the closest/driest spots.

While regular members generally travel outside public transport hours, if those working 9-5 (or thereabouts) used public parking, how would that affect things?

By-laws and exemptions aside, the public look to us to set an example. It's a bit like the guard filling his boots in the local one night and giving the licencee a bollocking for serving late on his next night tour. (That's a purely hyper, hypeopathet, hippopott,made up scenario)


Still, though. there's a bit of sour grapes involved here too methinks. Maybe i'll stick to the Oyrish Sun. It's got boobs in it.

augustus clinch

It seems there are a number of reasons why this parking problem happens.

The fact remains that it is happening and in my view makes AGS look ridiculous and erodes public support.

Surely this is something the garda commissioner should be addressing.

deadwood

augustus clinch wrote: »

Surely this is something the garda commissioner should be addressing.

I'm sure it's right up there with crime, national security, drugs, fatal collisions, budget cuts, roster changes, cuts in numbers, a rusting fleet, proper pronounciation of "vehicle" and my missing shower cap.

Geansai

deadwood wrote: »

I'm sure it's right up there with crime, national security, drugs, fatal collisions, budget cuts, roster changes, cuts in numbers, a rusting fleet, proper pronounciation of "vehicle" and my missing shower cap.

The Gardaí's perception amongst the public must surely be of interest to all senior ranking gardai.

markpb

deadwood wrote: »

I'm sure it's right up there with crime, national security, drugs, fatal collisions, budget cuts, roster changes, cuts in numbers, a rusting fleet, proper pronounciation of "vehicle" and my missing shower cap.

Several of those (especially vehhhicle) will always be an issue, otherwise it would be a very boring job You can't ignore the little issues forever, that's the hallmark of bad management.

augustus clinch

augustus clinch wrote: »

The fact remains that it is happening and in my view makes AGS look ridiculous and erodes public support.

I must be, you've taken the time to register a boards.ie account and post about it!

And if something that petty erodes public support then there is not much you can say about the country.

maggy_thatcher

Geansai wrote: »

The Gardaí's perception amongst the public must surely be of interest to all senior ranking gardai.

I'm sure a bit of this may come into it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJiYrRcfQo

BrianD

Zambia wrote: »

The only thing this whole article will achieve if anything is that Gardai in those stations may be forced to find alternate parking. I don't see who benefits.

From a management perspective this could bee seen to be an issue several years ago. Like all good irish State bodies they decided the status quo was grand and sure let the underlings fight it out among themselves.

I am pretty sure all those illegally parked cars are rank and file officers. If cheap affordable alternative parking was available close to the station I reckon they would take it.

Dublin is full of some pretty bad people if we depend on the garda to deal with those people in the stern and harsh manner they often need to be dealt with in. I don't think its to much to ask that they be allowed exit the city at the end of shift without sitting next to them on the bus. Proximity to the station allows them at least a place to run back to should they be attacked. City centre criminals take pure delight in knowing your personal details and recounting them to you. I have seen this first hand.

People often accuse Gardai of being insular, articles like this only feed that idea that the public as well as the criminals are out to get them.

In response to this article a letter should be sent to the OIC of the stations involved. Not demanding that officers park miles away but asking him/her what steps they are considering to provide safe secure parking for officers assigned to the station. In the end a member will be hurt on the way to their vehicle by an offender and they will end up being sued.

There is no obligation for any employer to provide parking facilities to employees. Every member of AGS can fulfill their duties without parking facilities being available to them.

You are talking about AGS members being insular - which I believe they are - and yet you're advocating behaviour that reinforces this i.e. not talking the bus like any other PAYE worker. We were talking about people being above the law and now you're saying above the rest of society?

There is ample cheap and affordable parking in the vicinity of both Pearse and Harcourt and it's available 24 hours.

Deliberately breaking the law for no good reason is not condusive to maintaining good law and order. Think the Broken Window theory.

Turner

OK this thread is now going around in circles.

Good arguments have been put forward on both sides, with good input from a few regular Garda bashers.

What next....

I would advise people who are not happy about Gardai parking official and unofficial vehicles at Harcourt Square, Pearse Street, and Mill Street in Galway to contact the Garda Ombudsman to complain.

They can also contact the Chief Supt's at the above stations to voice their concerns and get it off their chest.

Official vehicles and vehicles being used by Gardai in the course of their duty are exempt from alot of the road traffic act and also parking regulations for a reason, due to the nature of the job.

However if people see dangerous or "obnoxiously" parked official or unofficial Garda vehicles it is up to that person to contact the Garda Ombudsman and let them investigate.

Thank you all