New Secure house

Grizzly 45

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I think you may be reading too much into what is basically an entertainment show to be honest.

Well it illustrates a pretty good point that those who are unprepared will go to mob handed pretty quickly.And I am not reading anything into it!
Im using it as an example of how quickly things can fall apart.

Yes, bad times bring out the worst in people, as was seen in places in Katrina, but it also brings out the best. Altruism and heroism stand shoulder to shoulder with villains and swine in Interesting Times.

Ok,if you belive that...I beg to differ. Uhmm Katrina..500 plus unprepared people living like animals at day three in the football stadium.12 rapes,intimidation ,GBH and a murder or three...Verry nice!

When the Titanic sank, official inquiries in 1912 by the British Board of Trade and the U.S. Senate Investigation found that allegations that third class passengers were locked below decks were false. In fact one hundred and fifteen men in First Class and one hundred and forty seven men from Second class stood back to make space available for women and children from Third Class and as a result died.

Different times 100 years ago,social mores and class ..And proably a good bit of propaganda and lies too on both sides of the Atlantic.

Compared to the latest shipping accident.Where the captian "fell "into a liferaft and couldnt get out,or wouldnt reboard the ship!:rolleyes::rolleyes: Women and children first...How quaint!!!

And lets not forget that the most effective groups are those that look out for one another, whether that be military discipline or community action. The reason we're the apex predator, bacterial and viral monsters notwithstanding, is that we have learned to cooperate and work together

.

I always thought it was because of superior brain power,mastery of fire,and evolution of which being part of a group helps.But then again,wolves run in packs,orca killer whales hunt in packs,and even chimps hunt in packs,all very sophisticated societies in their own right who cooperate with each other to a common goal.

Ultimately that is our greatest strength, the foundation of civilisation, and it is the call to cooperation in anarchy that is the mark of the civilised man.

.

I think you mean chaos rather than the political concept of anarchy..Which in itself is a quite misunderstood political ideal.
"Civillised man"..Lets not even go there....Take him away from his toys and "civilisation" and he goes back to being an animal very quickly.
Even when he is civilised, his very civility turns him into the ultimate barbarian capabale of ultimate cruelty to his fellow man.:(

Two years from now will be the centeriny of the start of the bloodiest war humanity ever managed to wage upon itself at what alot of historians consider mans apogee of civilisation.

As with everything, it will depend on the situation.

Very much so.I'll just take the pessimistic outlook and expect the worst from my fellow man,as if they were so rational and normal thinking,we wouldnt be in a SHTF scenario in the first place.

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And I am not reading anything into it!
Im using it as an example of how quickly things can fall apart.

Its not an example though, its a show, for entertainment.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ok,if you belive that...I beg to differ. Uhmm Katrina..500 plus unprepared people living like animals at day three in the football stadium.12 rapes,intimidation ,GBH and a murder or three...Verry nice!

1.2 million people in New Orleans and 12 rapes? My goodness. And I'm not talking about preparation but about people helping one another in the face of catastrophe.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Compared to the latest shipping accident.Where the captian "fell "into a liferaft and couldnt get out,or wouldnt reboard the ship!:rolleyes::rolleyes: Women and children first...How quaint!!!

I never said there weren't dicks.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I always thought it was because of superior brain power,mastery of fire,and evolution of which being part of a group helps.But then again,wolves run in packs,orca killer whales hunt in packs,and even chimps hunt in packs,all very sophisticated societies in their own right who cooperate with each other to a common goal.

Correct, the ones who cooperate with one another will be successful. Thats why we have our modern civilisation rather than gangs of roving bandits whacking one another over the head with jagged rocks.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I think you mean chaos rather than the political concept of anarchy..Which in itself is a quite misunderstood political ideal.

I mean anarchy, as per the first dictionary definition.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

"Civillised man"..Lets not even go there....Take him away from his toys and "civilisation" and he goes back to being an animal very quickly.
Even when he is civilised, his very civility turns him into the ultimate barbarian capabale of ultimate cruelty to his fellow man.:(

Ah see there you're confusing "civilised" with something else. Not sure what exactly.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Two years from now will be the centeriny of the start of the bloodiest war humanity ever managed to wage upon itself at what alot of historians consider mans apogee of civilisation.

Which historians exactly, British ones perhaps?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Very much so.I'll just take the pessimistic outlook and expect the worst from my fellow man,as if they were so rational and normal thinking,we wouldnt be in a SHTF scenario in the first place.

Sure, hope for the best and plan for the worst. But a) there are plenty of SHTF scenarios that can occur with or without cooperation among people, and b) you can plan to make the best happen too.

Grizzly 45

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Its not an example though, its a show, for entertainment.

Well please feel free to give us a better example that is easily understood???

1.2 million people in New Orleans and 12 rapes? My goodness. And I'm not talking about preparation but about people helping one another in the face of catastrophe.

Yes being pendantic I'm talking of the stadium and what happened there when all these people could help each other.But

I never said there weren't dicks.

Lost me here!! Trying to illustrate how much difference social norms have changed in a century.If Capt Smith had fallen into a lifeboat in 1912 ,He would have proably lynched by his own crew.Poor old Bruce Ismay was villified for the rest of his days because he got on a lifeboat when there were no other women to fill it,eventhough he played by the "rules"of society.
As an aside with gender equality being all the norm..Will it be children and teens first?What happens if you are a same sex couple??:PDecisions,decisions!

Correct, the ones who cooperate with one another will be successful. Thats why we have our modern civilisation rather than gangs of roving bandits whacking one another over the head with jagged rocks.

Hmmm.I dunno about the rock bit..:DThey have advanced to illegal firearms and knives,and crime is a disease of civilisation,virtually unknown in more primitive tribes.
Good read on that is Paradise lost,what happened to Tathi after Captn Cook,Bligh and Co arrived there andthe followers who brought white mans civilisation and blessings to the natives.

I mean anarchy, as per the first dictionary definition.

So you mean in the sense of Bakunins original theory that society finds its own levels after stripping away the machinery and powers of state control over the individual??
Sounds like a good survivalist politic.

Ah see there you're confusing "civilised" with something else. Not sure what exactly.

The fact of the blatant hyprocrisy of calling onself civilised and claiming it is a merit yet unable to prevent situations we are preparing for here..

Which historians exactly, British ones perhaps?

Ah now Doc.....come on..Shure didnt plenty of good Irishmen spill blood for their glorious king and country..and gladly no doubt as they had the kings shilling in their pockets,their pals by their sides and were going off to rid the world of the drastdly baby bayonetting Hun in gallant little Belguim,and they'd all be home by Christmas??:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sure, hope for the best and plan for the worst. But a) there are plenty of SHTF scenarios that can occur with or without cooperation among people, and b) you can plan to make the best happen too.

[/QUOTE]
A] I'm assuming you are talking natural disasters here?Granted you cant control that,but I doubt that human instinct wont change there either.

b]
Thats why I'm pessimistic in nature,I'm never dissappointed,and anything going right is a bonus.:D

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well please feel free to give us a better example that is easily understood???

Yes being pendantic I'm talking of the stadium and what happened there when all these people could help each other.But

Lost me here!! Trying to illustrate how much difference social norms have changed in a century.If Capt Smith had fallen into a lifeboat in 1912 ,He would have proably lynched by his own crew.Poor old Bruce Ismay was villified for the rest of his days because he got on a lifeboat when there were no other women to fill it,eventhough he played by the "rules"of society.
As an aside with gender equality being all the norm..Will it be children and teens first?What happens if you are a same sex couple??:PDecisions,decisions!

Sure things have changed, but the bottom line is people help one another. Even in prehistoric tombs we find the remains of those who lived far beyond the age they would have if left alone, draped in flowers, those afflicted with disease and deformity, signs of a caring community in survival situations that make anything since pale in comparison. Its written in our very bones.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Hmmm.I dunno about the rock bit..:DThey have advanced to illegal firearms and knives,and crime is a disease of civilisation,virtually unknown in more primitive tribes.

So you mean in the sense of Bakunins original theory that society finds its own levels after stripping away the machinery and powers of state control over the individual??
Sounds like a good survivalist politic.

You can find crime aplenty in primitive societies, I've lived in a couple. And no, I mean anarchy.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The fact of the blatant hyprocrisy of calling onself civilised and claiming it is a merit yet unable to prevent situations we are preparing for here..

If a meteorite falls and wrecks the planet, there's nothing civilisation right now can do to prevent that. If a disease spreads faster than science can match it, there's nothing civilisation right now can do to prevent that. If the methane fields in Siberia decide to pop, there's nothing civilisation right now can do to prevent that.

What is hypocritical about that?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ah now Doc.....come on..Shure didnt plenty of good Irishmen spill blood for their glorious king and country..and gladly no doubt as they had the kings shilling in their pockets,their pals by their sides and were going off to rid the world of the drastdly baby bayonetting Hun in gallant little Belguim,and they'd all be home by Christmas??:rolleyes::rolleyes:

And every generation of Irishman rose up against the English, eventually succeeding, can you answer the question please, which historians exactly?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A] I'm assuming you are talking natural disasters here?Granted you cant control that,but I doubt that human instinct wont change there either.

My point is human instinct is far from as black and white as you are painting it.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=Doc Ruby;76597318]Sure things have changed, but the bottom line is people help one another. Even in prehistoric tombs we find the remains of those who lived far beyond the age they would have if left alone, draped in flowers, those afflicted with disease and deformity, signs of a caring community in survival situations that make anything since pale in comparison. Its written in our very bones.

And we also find children sacrificed,old people especially in Celtic and Nordic societies were killed too.So it depends on what civilisation you happened to be in or what class as well.

You can find crime aplenty in primitive societies, I've lived in a couple. And no, I mean anarchy.

What kind of crime,and that IS the definition of anarchy,not a convient descriptive word to describe collapse of society/lawlessness

If a meteorite falls and wrecks the planet, there's nothing civilisation right now can do to prevent that. If a disease spreads faster than science can match it, there's nothing civilisation right now can do to prevent that. If the methane fields in Siberia decide to pop, there's nothing civilisation right now can do to prevent that.

What is hypocritical about that?

Nothing...I'm talking about civilisation claiming it is great in doing whatever,and even having a World organisation/future world govt and being able to prevent wars,famine,etc.But spends its time gabbing and people die.Called the UN.I'll simplify it.... Mans inhumanuty to Man.

And every generation of Irishman rose up against the English, eventually succeeding, can you answer the question please, which historians exactly?

Ok I think the history of whatever happened in ww1 is well enough recorded for anyone to agree it was an imperalistic conflaguration caused by irreversible binding treaties on the nations of Europe between each other and an arms race mixed in for good measure.
So there are more than enough historians who cover that aspect of history.Short it was a slaughter caused by civilisations amongst themselves with no 100%right or 100% wrong.

BUT I really dont think THAT is what you want to discuss is it????
So sorry I'm not getting involved now again in a strawman arguement of which Irish historian is right or holds the worong Republican PC views.
Its totally OT anyway.

My point is human instinct is far from as black and white as you are painting it.

Nothing in life is black/white.Its shades of grey,but the predominat colour of humanity is INMH black.

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And we also find children sacrificed,old people especially in Celtic and Nordic societies were killed too.So it depends on what civilisation you happened to be in or what class as well.

You think people would find it acceptable to sacrifice children these days?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

What kind of crime,and that IS the definition of anarchy,not a convient descriptive word to describe collapse of society/lawlessness

You name it, rape, child abuse, murder, theft, its a long list. Oddly enough heavy on the child abuse for some reason. And spare us the anarchists cookbook crap, we have dictionaries.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Nothing...I'm talking about civilisation claiming it is great in doing whatever,and even having a World organisation/future world govt and being able to prevent wars,famine,etc.But spends its time gabbing and people die.Called the UN.I'll simplify it.... Mans inhumanuty to Man.

More like man's inability to control his environment, which is no crime. Just ask the Minoans.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So there are more than enough historians who cover that aspect of history.

But there are no historians that claim it was the apex of civilisation.

Not one.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Nothing in life is black/white.Its shades of grey,but the predominat colour of humanity is INMH black.

I disagree, especially since the bulk of your argument seems to be that there are no shades of grey in survival situations.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=Doc Ruby;76598231]You think people would find it acceptable to sacrifice children these days?

Stop trying to twist what I am saying Doc!I said in primitive societies older civilisations that as well as your honourin the aged there were also socities that scarficed their aged and children..How you jump to the conclusion that modern socities would accept it is beyond me.
But then we do seem to have no problem with child abuse,kiddie porn,etc etc in our great "civilisation" so I suppose sacrifice wouldnt be too far off.Wasnt that another great feature of civilisations in decline as well??Decadence both moral and physical ????

You name it, rape, child abuse, murder, theft, its a long list. Oddly enough heavy on the child abuse for some reason. And spare us the anarchists cookbook crap, we have dictionaries.

Then use it ! You obviously havent the faintest clue what the word anarchy means or the political concept.And it has nothing to do with the anarchists cook book !

BTW how about trying to modulate your tone of your posts??Try and be civil,helps if you want people to take your arguements more seriously.

More like man's inability to control his environment, which is no crime. Just ask the Minoans.

Unfortunatly they dont exist anymore..But I'd say there was a scuffle to get on the ships when the volcano blew..Or do you know for a fact they asll helped each other to form orderly ques and borded in a disiplined manner??Pompeii seems to suggest otherwise in some parts.

But there are no historians that claim it was the apex of civilisation.

Not one.

So now you have read all the history books out there???Or just the ones that suit your world view??? Can you read and speak German ???If not,there isnt much point in me giving you the names of such..Not that you would agree with them either..


[

I disagree, especially since the bulk of your argument seems to be that there are no shades of grey in survival situations.

Fine you are entitled to that view
Well,if you think it is going to be all the brotherhood of man,all helping each other out and that.....Please yourself ..I dont,and there is nothing you can try and argue to convince me otherwise, and you havent answerd my question..What primitive society did you live in that had high crime figures???

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[ Stop trying to twist what I am saying Doc!I said in primitive societies older civilisations that as well as your honourin the aged there were also socities that scarficed their aged and children..How you jump to the conclusion that modern socities would accept it is beyond me.

They didn't sacrifice their children for survivial, they sacrificed them for blood rites and other earthly sorceries which had little to do with their day to day existence.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But then we do seem to have no problem with child abuse,kiddie porn,etc etc in our great "civilisation"

What civilisation are you living in?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Then use it ! You obviously havent the faintest clue what the word anarchy means or the political concept.And it has nothing to do with the anarchists cook book !

You don't say...
Merriam Webster on Anarchy:

a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority

That you forced me to actually quote the damn thing mean you're wilfully ignorant or pushing an agenda, and really I don't know which is worse.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

BTW how about trying to modulate your tone of your posts??Try and be civil,helps if you want people to take your arguements more seriously.

Oh if I could but sell the iron in that irony... if you want the other kids to play nicely with you turbo, try first playing nicely with the the other kids instead of typing the alpha male into your keyboard.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Pompeii seems to suggest otherwise in some parts.

Pompeii to me suggests a people taken unawares by a hundred kilometer an hour flash flood of scorching steam, mud and ash. What does it suggest to you?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So now you have read all the history books out there???Or just the ones that suit your world view??? Can you read and speak German ???If not,there isnt much point in me giving you the names of such..Not that you would agree with them either..

Please, give me the name of those German historians that hold 1914 as the peak of modern civilisation. Ii viel Spaß beim Lesen sie.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well,if you think it is going to be all the brotherhood of man,all helping each other out and that.....Please yourself ..I dont,and there is nothing you can try and argue to convince me otherwise, and you havent answerd my question..

Far from it. But I'm not about to start unloading on the weak, young and unwell like yourself to spare an extra weeks rations ya tit.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

What primitive society did you live in that had high crime figures???

I didn't say they were high, merely that they existed. And don't you worry yourself about which ones, kuya.

bonniebede

Seems we have definitely entered the twilight zone.

All i'll say is that for me prepping is about trying to ensure that something good survives, people , yes, including me, and mine, but also the concept of charity, virtue, altruism etc. To my mind if they go then we, humanity have not survived.

krissovo

Ok everyone, sit back and relax as this thread is starting to go way off topic.

Its clear that for every positive action there are negative actions to counter them. Every situation needs to be analyzed and reacted too based on your opinions.

Now are there any more crazy home out there?

Grizzly 45

Doc Ruby wrote: »

They didn't sacrifice their children for survivial, they sacrificed them for blood rites and other earthly sorceries which had little to do with their day to day existence.

Really??? So they didnt take religion as part of their survival,praying to their gods was just for the craic like??
Oh dear..Doc you can be so selective in your choice of evidence!:rolleyes:

What civilisation are you living in?

Same one you are in ...I think??The pretty nasty one where these things happen...

You don't say...
Merriam Webster on Anarchy:

a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority

That you forced me to actually quote the damn thing mean you're wilfully ignorant or pushing an agenda, and really I don't know which is worse.

Funny that because if you use the free dictionary,or Websters online you get
anarchist [ˈænəkɪst]
n 1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a person who advocates the abolition of government and a social system based on voluntary cooperation
2. a person who causes disorder or upheaval anarchistic adj




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Anarchism is a political philosophy with many heterogeneous and diverse schools of thought, united by a common opposition to compulsory government. Anarchist schools of thought are characterised by "the belief that government is both harmful and unnecessary", but may differ fundamentally, supporting anything from extreme individualism to complete collectivism.[1] The individualist wing of anarchism emphasises negative liberty, i.e. opposition to state or social control over the individual, while those in the collectivist wing emphasise positive liberty to achieve one's potential and argue that humans have needs that society ought to fulfill, "recognizing equality of entitlement".[2] Another distinction is that the social wing advocates market abolitionism and common ownership as a means to eliminate unequal economic power, and individualist anarchism is supportive of means of production being held privately, and in the case of the most prevalent strain of anarcho-individualism, advocates that goods and services be distributed through markets.[3]
Anarchist anthropologist David Graeber has noted that while schools of Marxism always have founders (e.g. Leninism, Maoism, Althusserianism), schools of anarchism "almost invariably emerge from some kind of organizational principle or form of practice", citing anarcho-syndicalism, individualist anarchism and platformism as example











































































































































































Abit more than you are claiming Doc...And I am neither ignorant or willfully pushing an agenda.

Oh if I could but sell the iron in that irony... if you want the other kids to play nicely with you turbo, try first playing nicely with the the other kids instead of typing the alpha male into your keyboard.

Gosh !! Its easy to get under your skin isnt it????:D:D:D:D
Are you that immature and sensitive that you have to go to attack mode and become personally abusive??? You seem to be very tetchy on alot of things these days.Not a good survivalist trait.If this kind of little chit chat causes you to freak out,what will you be like if somthing really serious happens??Take a chill pill FFS!:)

Pompeii to me suggests a people taken unawares by a hundred kilometer an hour flash flood of scorching steam, mud and ash. What does it suggest to you?

Mass panic and exedous ,when the

Please, give me the name of those German historians that hold 1914 as the peak of modern civilisation. Ii viel Spaß beim Lesen sie.

BWHAHAHAHAA!!
Sie konnen nicht mal richtig Deutsch schreiben Sie Esel!!Geh heim und lern mal wie mann gescheit Deutsch schreibt ohne ein scheiss Babelfisch ubersetzung programm.Sie mochtegern Doktor:P

Far from it. But I'm not about to start unloading on the weak, young and unwell like yourself to spare an extra weeks rations ya tit.

Now,now being abusive again!!:D
Whatever...You want to do..Hope you have enough ....For when all the rest of them pitch up looking for a free handout.

I didn't say they were high, merely that they existed. And don't you worry yourself about which ones, kuya.

OK,so you sont really want to discuss this as an adult then??
So it was the figment of the fertile inmagination of doc tribe then?

Now dear Doc,unless you have anything else worthwhile to contribute to this discussion apart from strawmen arguements,intresting historical ditties,fasicinating global Cassandra predictions and going into personal attack mode again.Which is the lEAST thing to convince me of an arguement...I'll leave you have the final word.As we really have gone OT again,and I really cant be deal with another Star Treck episode :D:D
Good day Sir!

colonel-yum-yum

So, about this secure house then......

the drifter

i just thought the house was cool

Doc Ruby

the drifter wrote: »

i just thought the house was cool

Indeed, back we step through the looking glass. I thought this was good, the top ten zombie proof designs, some of them are really clever.





You could find a market for that I wager.

eth0

Reminds me of that inflatable bubble James Bond rolls down the snow with in one of the recent but not so very recent filums.

Dude111

touts wrote:

So short of doing that to your house and getting a nasty letter fom the residents association what are the best options for securing your home.

One of the BEST ways i reckon is to put tinfoil ALL AROUND THE OUTSIDE to keep harmful RF energys,etc from coming inside!!