Why are there no Irish fighters in the UFC?

John Ferguson

As the title asks "Why are there no Irish fighters in the UFC" (or Strikeforce).

I was asked this during an interview yesterday and it got me wondering. What's your take on it guys?

cowzerp

Our top level is below the UFC bottom level at the moment, it's ever improving and i do feel in a few years we will have a slow but steady flow of fighters getting run outs

That's not to say the very best fighter in certain weights is below the bottom level but overall i would say it is, in saying that some of the ultimate fighter fighters are not all that good and get run outs but after been in the house there ready made names for the show.

People like watching elite fighters or at least fighters they know, non elite fighters that you don't know is a turn off to most fans of the UFC in my opinion.

Jason McCabe

Biggest issue I see is the low level of wrestling in the country

Plus only 3 BB BJJ guys

Might not be a popular answer

Barry.Oglesby

Jason McCabe wrote: »

Biggest issue I see is the low level of wrestling in the country

Plus only 3 BB BJJ guys

Might not be a popular answer

There are some really good wrestlers both in MMA and out but the general standard is low. There still seems to be some clubs out there who don't know some of the fundamentals of clinch work. There's also about 7 or 8 black belt BJJ guys now Jason I think.

I actually don't think that the level of coaching is the issue, rather the level of competition, while improving, is low. There are 3 or 4 guys at each weight who would literally blitz the rest of the division which means there are very few fights on the island for them. Exclusive contracts to promotions don't help issues in that regard though in fairness most guys who are contracted exclusively to one of the promotions tend to get more international bouts.

I can see things improving now though and from judging/commentating I see an improvement in the level of fights generally.

Xlami

I think that one of the reasons is MMA itself has evolved so much over the last 10 years, as was noted Ireland was already behind due to lack of wrestling and BJJ. However we've developed at a rapid pace and continue to develop. Our top level guys are now not too far behind the UFC competition.

I also feel it will be the case as with many countries that if in few years time Irish fighters sign for the UFC you won't just see one within the year but a handful.

SBG Ireland

Im working on it

garrybergin

I know he is not exactly "Irish" , but Gunnar Nelson (formerly Irish trained) must be at that level now

Howshocowpownw

Pretty simple.

Not good enough at the moment

cowzerp

There is lots of kids training now that are as good as most adults in Ireland and still have 10-15 years to vastly surpass that-these are kids who joined mma straight out, there not strikers/grapplers there fighters and ready for anything

So in saying that in 10 years I think we will have 5-8 lads in the UFC and not only in it but some challenging to go places.

Pride Fighter

From what I've seen there would be a few fighters good enough for Strikeforce or the bottom rung of the UFC. It's just a matter of getting that bit of luck where one of the matchmakers of the UFC see them on a DVD and are impressed. It's only a matter of time I think.

Stephen_King

I think there's a few guys here that are about a year or so away from having the UFC knocking on their door, we might not have to wait too long.

SBG Ireland

garrybergin wrote: »

I know he is not exactly "Irish" , but Gunnar Nelson (formerly Irish trained) must be at that level now

'formerly'?

He visits danahers in the lead up to a big grappling comp but prepares for mma at sbg and mjolnir

theboxingclinic

Conor Mcgregor and Joe Duffy must be close....

garrybergin

SBG Ireland wrote: »

'formerly'?

He visits danahers in the lead up to a big grappling comp but prepares for mma at sbg and mjolnir

Apologies ! - "currently" :o

crosdad

There are definitley irish fighters that could win fights in the ufc imo. it's just gonna take a while to get reconigition and the names out there. how many irish lads have had over 20 fights? Just takes time i think, guys like Conor mcgregor and Gunnar nelson are capable of knocking out and submitting( in gunnars case) any mma fighter out there.

theboxingclinic

I think mcgregor and duffy have most attributes needed. Athleticism, serious skills and most importantly mentally strong. Would expect to see both make it especially as they are guided by cage warriors and have great management and obviously great coaches as well

Limerick_Alan

I moved away a couple of years ago so I am not up to date as to how much the level has improved at home but the standard in the USA seems a good bit higher, the biggest difference seems to be the level of wrestling. At the lower levels of UFC SF etc and even the average pro/amateur, they mostly have good wrestling and I think that would be the biggest thing that needs to be addressed before we see many guys in the UFC.
I think there are other issues with coaching, level of competition, access to facilities and training sparing partners but I would think that these are all improving quickly.

El Guapo!

Limerick_Alan wrote: »

I moved away a couple of years ago so I am not up to date as to how much the level has improved at home but the standard in the USA seems a good bit higher, the biggest difference seems to be the level of wrestling. At the lower levels of UFC SF etc and even the average pro/amateur, they mostly have good wrestling and I think that would be the biggest thing that needs to be addressed before we see many guys in the UFC.
I think there are other issues with coaching, level of competition, access to facilities and training sparing partners but I would think that these are all improving quickly.

I think there's too much emphasis put on wrestling lately.
Yeah of course if you have a good wrestling base then that's brilliant and it'll work well for you in the cage. But if not, it's not the end of the world, there have been plenty of successful fighters in the UFC who don't have a strong wrestling background.

Brian Lighthouse

Saw this for a Limerick woman
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056502413

I don`t know the difference between MMA and UFC, so if I`m wrong forgive me. I get lost with boxing these days. It was so much simpler all them years ago.

P.S. The JF mentioned in the article, is that the same JF as the O/P.
Well then you know about this.

Limerick_Alan

Dean09 wrote: »

I think there's too much emphasis put on wrestling lately.
Yeah of course if you have a good wrestling base then that's brilliant and it'll work well for you in the cage. But if not, it's not the end of the world, there have been plenty of successful fighters in the UFC who don't have a strong wrestling background.

I think the only reason that we emphasize wrestling is due to the lack of access in Ireland. You are right there are many successful fighters who dont have a wrestling background but I think all fighters have worked on it to a certain degree and at UFC level i think they will pretty much all be at a good standard.

manga_10

Limerick_Alan wrote: »

I think the only reason that we emphasize wrestling is due to the lack of access in Ireland. You are right there are many successful fighters who dont have a wrestling background but I think all fighters have worked on it to a certain degree and at UFC level i think they will pretty much all be at a good standard.

The wrestling scene in Ireland is only in its infancy compared to soccer and other sports but the scene is steadily increasing and with clubs like redhogs and knockagh raiders as well as clubs such as FAI and Evolve making sure they're fighters get this essential skill under their belt, I have confidence that in the long run irish wrestling in mma will be strong enough to compete with european standards if not maybe eventually american standards

gimmick

cowzerp wrote: »

There is lots of kids training now that are as good as most adults in Ireland and still have 10-15 years to vastly surpass that-these are kids who joined mma straight out, there not strikers/grapplers there fighters and ready for anything

So in saying that in 10 years I think we will have 5-8 lads in the UFC and not only in it but some challenging to go places.

There was an MMA class in my gym last night. While I was waiting for my own class to start, i was watching 2 kids grappling in the ring. Both were fantatstic at rolling out of subs, clinching in subs, lovely takedowns and great defense as well. I know these 2 have been at this for less than a year and I think one is 14 the other 15. If they are a sample of what is out there, there is no reason why after a few years of proper tarining that they cannot makes names for themselves.

Why the fúck was this stuff not around 15 years ago ?

Jimmy Bottlehead

gimmick wrote: »

There was an MMA class in my gym last night. While I was waiting for my own class to start, i was watching 2 kids grappling in the ring. Both were fantatstic at rolling out of subs, clinching in subs, lovely takedowns and great defense as well. I know these 2 have been at this for less than a year and I think one is 14 the other 15. If they are a sample of what is out there, there is no reason why after a few years of proper tarining that they cannot makes names for themselves.

Why the fúck was this stuff not around 15 years ago ?

Do you mean that in a "why wasn't this around for me to try as a kid?" way?

gimmick

Yup.

Or to be more accurate - why didn't I keep my eeys open to what was going on around me back then with regard to kickboxingetc....

Jimmy Bottlehead

gimmick wrote: »

Yup.

Or to be more accurate - why didn't I keep my eeys open to what was going on around me back then with regard to kickboxingetc....

Absolutely no reason you can't take it up now, man. A lot of people train MMA because it's enjoyable, not even to compete. You can give it the whole "oh I can't, I'm too old / out of shape / not enough money / etc" excuse, but truthfully the only thing keeping most people from trying something new is themselves.

gimmick

I already train in Muay thai and Kickboxing. Looking at taking up BJJ as well later on in the year.

My point is - I really enjoy doing all this now. Its a shame that i didn't discover it much earlier. Seems like a lot of wasted time.

On the plus side, at least I did find it eventually.

Jimmy Bottlehead

gimmick wrote: »

I already train in Muay thai and Kickboxing. Looking at taking up BJJ as well later on in the year.

My point is - I really enjoy doing all this now. Its a shame that i didn't discover it much earlier. Seems like a lot of wasted time.

On the plus side, at least I did find it eventually.

Ahh I getcha; that's different

Well it's never too late! Hopefully you'll enjoy it once you start.

Anyways, better let this get back on-topic.

DAGEROUSDAVE

Stevie Lynch & Colin Robinson already fought in the UfC. Greg Loughran fought Eddie Alvarez in Bellator & Micky Young fought Jose Aldo in FX3.

Ian Whelan

There is no guarantee that Gunnar Nelson will get into the UFC, plus if he's Irish then so is Jake Hecht.

manga_10

Greg Loughran fought brookins as well

John Ferguson

DAGEROUSDAVE wrote: »

Stevie Lynch & Colin Robinson already fought in the UfC. Greg Loughran fought Eddie Alvarez in Bellator & Micky Young fought Jose Aldo in FX3.

The question was aimed at the present not the past.

weemate

the talent is there.......we just dont know the right people!!!:rolleyes:

mikey1

John Ferguson wrote: »

The question was aimed at the present not the past.

Hey John

This is an interesting question and one i have thought about sometimes -

Why are there no Irish fighters in the UFC?

Im going to look at it from a business stand point as one should really. In the grand scheme of things the business aim is for profit, thats what the shareholders really care about. (I know you know this john im just putting it in for the aiding of my answer/for those who are primarily focused on 'how the industry has progressed in ireland" )

The following questions would then arise for both company and fighter -

Would having an (born/living most their lives) Irish fighter on the show be beneficial?
What sort of a following would an irish fighter have coming out from a small country as ours? (think ticket sales)
Would setting up camp in the states/more frequent fights there aid in developing a greater fan base at a faster rate?

( on a side note- Do people really think ALL of the best fighters in the world are on the UFC? )

So to answer the question - if an irish fighter is staying around europe/ireland he may find it hard to break into the UFC as his fan base is/ may be pretty small. Im sure the COMPANY (UFC) obviously doesn't just look at how great the fighter is, but as to how much money they can possibly make both now (when they offer the fighter the contract who now has x amount of fan base) and over the next 1, 2, 3 years etc. People must understand that each fighter is an investment and so if they can possibly make a greater return on one investment over the other they will make that choice regardless of nationality or maybe even skill level as Im sure the case may be. If a fighter is willing to travel to the states and aim to make a name for himself over there/network Im sure they could greater increase their chances of success at a faster rate.

This answer is well open to being picked apart added to and critiqued. i may have left things out or could be wrong in areas, please feel free to let me know.

On another note i like where your headed with cage contender john youve done a great job and it will be interesting if it heads the direction you mentioned when i spoke last. The fact that you are introducing x UFC fighters to our soil will greater aid in developing the profile of Irish fighters (and cage contender ) who may then manage to make the leap towards that UFC direction, if they make a statement in the cage that is.:)

All the best
Mick Timmons

Mellor

mikey1 wrote: »

Hey John

This is an interesting question and one i have thought about sometimes -

Why are there no Irish fighters in the UFC?

Im going to look at it from a business stand point as one should really. In the grand scheme of things the business aim is for profit, thats what the shareholders really care about. (I know you know this john im just putting it in for the aiding of my answer/for those who are primarily focused on 'how the industry has progressed in ireland" )

The following questions would then arise for both company and fighter -

Would having an (born/living most their lives) Irish fighter on the show be beneficial?
What sort of a following would an irish fighter have coming out from a small country as ours? (think ticket sales)
Would setting up camp in the states/more frequent fights there aid in developing a greater fan base at a faster rate?

( on a side note- Do people really think ALL of the best fighters in the world are on the UFC? )

So to answer the question - if an irish fighter is staying around europe/ireland he may find it hard to break into the UFC as his fan base is/ may be pretty small. Im sure the COMPANY (UFC) obviously doesn't just look at how great the fighter is, but as to how much money they can possibly make both now (when they offer the fighter the contract who now has x amount of fan base) and over the next 1, 2, 3 years etc. People must understand that each fighter is an investment and so if they can possibly make a greater return on one investment over the other they will make that choice regardless of nationality or maybe even skill level as Im sure the case may be. If a fighter is willing to travel to the states and aim to make a name for himself over there/network Im sure they could greater increase their chances of success at a faster rate.

This answer is well open to being picked apart added to and critiqued. i may have left things out or could be wrong in areas, please feel free to let me know.

On another note i like where your headed with cage contender john youve done a great job and it will be interesting if it heads the direction you mentioned when i spoke last. The fact that you are introducing x UFC fighters to our soil will greater aid in developing the profile of Irish fighters (and cage contender ) who may then manage to make the leap towards that UFC direction, if they make a statement in the cage that is.:)

All the best
Mick Timmons

Mick i think your way of lookign at it purely from a business and fanbase point of view is very flawed.

"Business aim is for profit"
While thats true, lookign at it from a immediate worth view point is wrong. In order to make the msot money, the long term plan should be to get the best stable of fighters. This means signing the best of the top guys, but also the best young free agents with potential, thats where most of the irish prospects would fit in.
Country of origin can add some value to a fighter, and they often choose to market certain fighters in certain ways, or "protect" thier asset. But that is secondary, nobody has ever been decline by the UFC as they couldn't be marketed to a large enough demographic. The whole undercard isn't marketed.

As for fanbase. Few fighters establish a significant fanbase before they are signed. Casual MMA fans who know only UFC, are responsible for buyrates.

Paul McVeigh was unlucky not to qualify for TUF 14, losing at 4:59 in the 3rd. Had he of won, he would of been guaranteed TV time, plus at least a fight or two in the octagon.

kid chaos

Was Norman Parke not suppose to fight on Strikeforce but was injured? Im nearly sure

manga_10

Did Ali not enter the latest ultimate fighter as well ?

Arawn

mikey1 wrote: »

Hey John

This is an interesting question and one i have thought about sometimes -

Why are there no Irish fighters in the UFC?

Im going to look at it from a business stand point as one should really. In the grand scheme of things the business aim is for profit, thats what the shareholders really care about. (I know you know this john im just putting it in for the aiding of my answer/for those who are primarily focused on 'how the industry has progressed in ireland" )

The following questions would then arise for both company and fighter -

Would having an (born/living most their lives) Irish fighter on the show be beneficial?
What sort of a following would an irish fighter have coming out from a small country as ours? (think ticket sales)
Would setting up camp in the states/more frequent fights there aid in developing a greater fan base at a faster rate?

( on a side note- Do people really think ALL of the best fighters in the world are on the UFC? )

So to answer the question - if an irish fighter is staying around europe/ireland he may find it hard to break into the UFC as his fan base is/ may be pretty small. Im sure the COMPANY (UFC) obviously doesn't just look at how great the fighter is, but as to how much money they can possibly make both now (when they offer the fighter the contract who now has x amount of fan base) and over the next 1, 2, 3 years etc. People must understand that each fighter is an investment and so if they can possibly make a greater return on one investment over the other they will make that choice regardless of nationality or maybe even skill level as Im sure the case may be. If a fighter is willing to travel to the states and aim to make a name for himself over there/network Im sure they could greater increase their chances of success at a faster rate.

This answer is well open to being picked apart added to and critiqued. i may have left things out or could be wrong in areas, please feel free to let me know.

On another note i like where your headed with cage contender john youve done a great job and it will be interesting if it heads the direction you mentioned when i spoke last. The fact that you are introducing x UFC fighters to our soil will greater aid in developing the profile of Irish fighters (and cage contender ) who may then manage to make the leap towards that UFC direction, if they make a statement in the cage that is.:)

All the best
Mick Timmons

You fail to take in all the Irish americans who would pretty much follow anything half Irish (hello Marcus Davis) also the more people put on a good scrap the more fans tend to like them.

There's no way does the ufc think primarily about how much each fighter can bring to the company as the low pay/ cut after loss clause for alot of fighters means they can take chances with unknowns like they did with Tom Egan and John Hathoway.

I really only think they think your way when it comes to the big bucks

Jason McCabe

Any Irish fighter that made it would bring in mega bucks with the Irish Americans for sure

John Duddy was a massive draw.

mikey1

Hey Lads

First off I think the UFC business model is to position itself as the organization with the best fighters in the world. whether it is achieving that is questionable and open to debate/opinion in areas.

Whilst they have essentially tested the Irish market with two events and some Irish fighters (correct me if im wrong here), one would ask themselves how well they done in those events (profits), and why they would come back? (It is as easy to run an event in a small market as it is in a big market, like say the UK, and tie in the brand identity with new assets (fighters) within that market, which would greater aid in profits).

Example: If I had two fighters one from the UK(mainland) and one from Dublin both of equal skill which would you pick to maximize your profit per event, thats ticket sales, PPV, and merchandise?

Take a look at fighters in the UFC where are they from? id say they are from predominately large populated areas where the UFC can situate themselves for future events and where their investments can be maximized to their fullest potential. (what do you think is the vetting procedure for the TUF comp?)

Whilst they could make money on the irish americans with an Irish fighter they are more than likely making money on that demographic anyway as they are most likely following americans/fans of the UFC anyway.

The UfC business model seems to be aimed at positioning itself in large populated countries where it can make sure it maximizes it events profits. It differs from that of the boxing world as the UFC has a monopoly, how can a monopoly win big? it controls the resources thats how. Where is it achieving this to maximize it profits? In large populated countries, with a large stable of fighters from which they offer little payouts to.

On another note I dont think anyone here is wrong in their opinions or I am ultimately correct in mine. Im open to looking at it in different ways, its just I feel that there are many Irish lads iv watched on the Irish scene both north and south and then i watch the UFC from time to time and see the standard on the undercard and think that certain guys standard in Ireland is just as good and if not better and I wonder why they aint there? Thats why i came to such a view.

Here is an article that I found today when doing a search on the UFCs business model it an interesting read to say the least -

http://theboxingtribune.com/2012/01/walking-in-the-shadows-of-tyrants-a-ufc-model-for-boxing/

Mick

Xlami

mikey1 wrote: »

Hey Lads


Example: If I had two fighters one from the UK(mainland) and one from Dublin both of equal skill which would you pick to maximize your profit per event, thats ticket sales, PPV, and merchandise?

Take a look at fighters in the UFC where are they from? id say they are from predominately large populated areas where the UFC can situate themselves for future events and where their investments can be maximized to their fullest potential. (what do you think is the vetting procedure for the TUF comp?)

Whilst they could make money on the irish americans with an Irish fighter they are more than likely making money on that demographic anyway as they are most likely following americans/fans of the UFC anyway.

Mick

While I do see your logic I'd like to reiterate a point Arawn was making. 95% of UFC signee's start off on the undercard for very little money around 6,000 euro show and 6,000 win. Also very little marketing is done for the undercard. So I don't see why it would matter where the fighters are from. the UFC don't sign guys like Curt Warburton for example and say "We'll build the future of the UK market on this guy" they sign these sort of fighters that show potential and then throw him in on the undercard. If he gets a couple of wins then they start promoting and hyping them. Which is what happened with John Hathaway.

I don't want to take anything away from Tom Egan but when the UFC visited here in early 09 and wanted to choose "an Irish poster boy" Tom Egan would not have been my choice. He was a young, exciting undefeated fighter who possibly was not ready for the UFC.

Stephen_King

mikey1 wrote: »

First off I think the UFC business model is to position itself as the organization with the best fighters in the world. whether it is achieving that is questionable and open to debate/opinion in areas.

I think the UFC business model is primarily to monopolize the MMA market in the same way the WWE controls wrestling. Once they do that they'll automatically have control over the best fighters-where else would they fight. From what I've seen over the last few years they've always promoted the UFC brand over the fighters.

Also its worth considering Zuffa owns the copyrights for virtually all high level MMA events held over the past 20 years (UFC, Pride, Strikeforce, Affliction, Elite XC, Cage Rage etc...) and their supporting of the SOPA bill-I'd wager control of media rights plays a far more important role in their business model than signing the best fighters.

mikey1 wrote: »

Whilst they have essentially tested the Irish market with two events and some Irish fighters (correct me if im wrong here), one would ask themselves how well they done in those events (profits), and why they would come back?

I believe most of the shows they ran in the UK and here lost money-again the aim of coming over was to promote the brand (and by proxy, the sport) over the long term. They knew they were going to lose money before they came over-they spent a ton on advertising etc.

mikey1 wrote: »

Example: If I had two fighters one from the UK(mainland) and one from Dublin both of equal skill which would you pick to maximize your profit per event, thats ticket sales, PPV, and merchandise?

They've already shown what they do in that situation-they maximize viewers from both markets by putting them against each other (Hataway vs Egan). PPV sales and merchandising wouldn't really be factors for lower card fights-Bisping at the minute is the only UK fighter capable of carrying a PPV card.

mikey1 wrote: »

I feel that there are many Irish lads iv watched on the Irish scene both north and south and then i watch the UFC from time to time and see the standard on the undercard and think that certain guys standard in Ireland is just as good and if not better and I wonder why they aint there? Thats why i came to such a view.

I'd imagine most of the fighters signed outside of TUF have been picked up from regional shows such as Cagewarriors. The better Irish fighters do in these organisations the better chance they have of being signed by the UFC.

As for TUF itself, I think a good portion of the fighters are chosen for their character as opposed to their skill-the UFC brass probably have a good idea who is going to be in the finals before they start filming. I'd agree with you that the advantage TUF gives is that it sucks in people who otherwise wouldn't really watch MMA-and I'd imagine as the UFC expands, TUF will become more of a tool for breaking into a market good and proper-Brazil being a prime example, I think the next TUF is being shot over there?

mikey1 wrote: »

The UfC business model seems to be aimed at positioning itself in large populated countries where it can make sure it maximizes it events profits. It differs from that of the boxing world as the UFC has a monopoly, how can a monopoly win big? it controls the resources thats how. Where is it achieving this to maximize it profits? In large populated countries, with a large stable of fighters from which they offer little payouts to.

They maximize profits by controlling media rights. The UFC are one of the most aggressive companies out there for protecting their copyright-once they have control of the market, fighters will have no choice but to fight on a Zuffa card if they want to achieve anything in the sport. Outside of Brazil, I think UFC can carry a card without having too many local fighters in their events.

mikey1 wrote: »

I feel that there are many Irish lads iv watched on the Irish scene both north and south and then i watch the UFC from time to time and see the standard on the undercard and think that certain guys standard in Ireland is just as good and if not better and I wonder why they aint there? Thats why i came to such a view

There are a few things I'd think contribute, the main one for me being that the shows here prior to Cage Contenders and Cagewarriors were pretty small and had inconsistent scheduling. Cage Rage was the main UK show before that from what I remember. The better these shows do, the more exposure our fighters will get on an international stage, the more likelyhood there is of them being signed.

Mellor

Stephen_King wrote: »

Also its worth considering Zuffa owns the copyrights for virtually all high level MMA events held over the past 20 years (UFC, Pride, Strikeforce, Affliction, Elite XC, Cage Rage etc...) and their supporting of the SOPA bill-I'd wager control of media rights plays a far more important role in their business model than signing the best fighters.

Zuffa owns UFC, Strikeforce and the Pride back catelgue.

I wasn't aware of any purchase of the others. When did this happen?

Afflication, I'd have assumed Afflication clothing still had the rights.
Elite XC was co-owned between Showtime and ProElite. I'd assume they still do.
Cage rage was also owned by Proelite.
Dream is bigger than Affliction, Elite XC, Cage Rage etc... and not Zuffa owned.

They've already shown what they do in that situation-they maximize viewers from both markets by putting them against each other (Hataway vs Egan). PPV sales and merchandising wouldn't really be factors for lower card fights-Bisping at the minute is the only UK fighter capable of carrying a PPV card.

That makes absolutely no sense. Hataway and Egan had nothing to do with "maximising PPVs". It was an undercard - ie not scheduled to air (im aware that it did in the end, but not relevant to promoting sales)

cruasder777

John Ferguson wrote: »

As the title asks "Why are there no Irish fighters in the UFC" (or Strikeforce).

I was asked this during an interview yesterday and it got me wondering. What's your take on it guys?

Because people bought into striking martial arts up until recently and grappling was ignored.

Even now most people dont even know submission wrestling is a martial art, they think its the stuff kids watch.


BJJ is also very new here, it will take 10 yrs.

cruasder777

crosdad wrote: »

There are definitley irish fighters that could win fights in the ufc imo. it's just gonna take a while to get reconigition and the names out there. how many irish lads have had over 20 fights? Just takes time i think, guys like Conor mcgregor and Gunnar nelson are capable of knocking out and submitting( in gunnars case) any mma fighter out there.

You are joking right ?

Gunnar Nelson is Icelandic and is based in the US. Hes a top class pro.

Top pro MMA fighters are competing on another level. Mcgregor is a semi pro who has lost to Irish fighters.

He does not have the grappling skills to compete at the highest level, hes a brawler.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1YaVC8ujdc


This is pub fighting, wheres the takedowns ?

I rate this guy alot higher, even though he is outclassed here.

Paddy Doherty v Leigh Remedios(class fighter)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJnJve3TooE&feature=related

Richy06

You're joking, right? Have you ever seen Conor rolling or wrestling in your life? How can you make such a huge assumption if you haven't? Also, Conor is no semi pro, his pro record is 9-2-0. He's lost to Joe Duffy, who was "pro" enough to make it to nearly make it into the TUF house a season or two ago. The other loss on his record is 2008! You honestly think he's at the same level 3 years later?! Madness. He's is undoubtedly one of the best prospects in the country and is constantly improving and a card carrying gym rat. Do some research in future if you're going to throw around statements like that. Also, as for wondering where the takedowns are - Conor's biggest weapon is his striking, he, like many others, uses his grappling to keep the fight in his best area. Which is pretty logical, don't you think? That highlight reel is also from Oct 2010 - try looking for some of his more recent fights. I hope I don't come accross as some lame nuthugger, just don't like to see people thinking they can form an opinion on a guy via a quick Google. Also, Paddy Doherty, if you just look here - http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Conor-McGregor-29688
The guy you rate so highly was actually beaten by Conor; Rd. 1 KO. 4 seconds.

As for Gunni, he isn't based in the US. He's based in his home country and also travels to and trains in SBG in Dublin. He goes to Danaher's before big grappling tournaments but that doesn't mean he's based in the US.

As for your previous point about the level of BJJ not being up to scratch here, I think it's wrestling where the Irish fall down. If we're talking specific a specific skill set.

But hey, what do I know?

theboxingclinic

seriously?? pub fighting? seriously?
Wheres the take downs? Conor is predominanty a striker, he knocks people out at an incredible rate, why would he take some1 down??

cruasder777 wrote: »

You are joking right ?

Gunnar Nelson is Icelandic and is based in the US. Hes a top class pro.

Top pro MMA fighters are competing on another level. Mcgregor is a semi pro who has lost to Irish fighters.

He does not have the grappling skills to compete at the highest level, hes a brawler.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1YaVC8ujdc


This is pub fighting, wheres the takedowns ?

I rate this guy alot higher, even though he is outclassed here.

Paddy Doherty v Leigh Remedios(class fighter)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJnJve3TooE&feature=related

cruasder777

Richy06 wrote: »

You're joking, right? Have you ever seen Conor rolling or wrestling in your life? How can you make such a huge assumption if you haven't? Also, Conor is no semi pro, his pro record is 9-2-0. He's lost to Joe Duffy, who was "pro" enough to make it to nearly make it into the TUF house a season or two ago. The other loss on his record is 2008! You honestly think he's at the same level 3 years later?! Madness. He's is undoubtedly one of the best prospects in the country and is constantly improving and a card carrying gym rat. Do some research in future if you're going to throw around statements like that. Also, as for wondering where the takedowns are - Conor's biggest weapon is his striking, he, like many others, uses his grappling to keep the fight in his best area. Which is pretty logical, don't you think? That highlight reel is also from Oct 2010 - try looking for some of his more recent fights. I hope I don't come accross as some lame nuthugger, just don't like to see people thinking they can form an opinion on a guy via a quick Google. Also, Paddy Doherty, if you just look here - http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Conor-McGregor-29688
The guy you rate so highly was actually beaten by Conor; Rd. 1 KO. 4 seconds.

As for Gunni, he isn't based in the US. He's based in his home country and also travels to and trains in SBG in Dublin. He goes to Danaher's before big grappling tournaments but that doesn't mean he's based in the US.

As for your previous point about the level of BJJ not being up to scratch here, I think it's wrestling where the Irish fall down. If we're talking specific a specific skill set.

But hey, what do I know?

According to his wiki page Gunnar Nelson is based in NY, he does seminars and has fought and trained in Dublin.

BJJ is still very new in Ireland, it takes on average 10 yrs to get a BJJ black belt, top pros who are BJJ black belts started very young. Even Gunnar Nelson has just got his BJJ black belt.

It will take yrs to catch up.

If Connor McGregor is Irelands top hope, a guy whos striking style is wide open(in the video I posted) and who Im still waiting to see grapple(post a video if there is one), there is little hope. McGregor was simply be submitted when he runs into a BJJ/vale tudo fighter or a submission wrestler.

Paddy Doherty is a bantam weight if he fought Mcgregor he would have been outside his weight division. He is 20lbs lighter. Doherty has fought top pro opponents, as the video I posted shows.

Richy06

One of Gunni's main coaches and his corner for all his MMA fights as well as his recent ADCC run is John Kavanagh, BJJ black belt and head coach of SBG Ireland. I'm pretty sure Gunni got all but his BB off John, maybe a belt or two off Matt Thornton. In fact, he'll be here soon to complete his training for his fight for Cage Contender next month.

I haven't got any footage of Conor rolling, but you could maybe take my word for it? He's not a black belt, but this doesn't mean he neglects wrestling and BJJ. A BJJ black belt is not the be all end all - it doesn't automatically enbue the person who wields one the power to submit all who are not black belts. Suffice to say Conor's a very good grappler.

I'm not saying Conor is our only hope - but he's one of those who's got a great chance at the minute.

Again, if you're basing your opinions on wiki pages and quick google searches, then maybe hang back and do some more research before you start thinking you know the lay of the land.

cruasder777

Richy06 wrote: »

One of Gunni's main coaches and his corner for all his MMA fights as well as his recent ADCC run is John Kavanagh, BJJ black belt and head coach of SBG Ireland. I'm pretty sure Gunni got all but his BB off John, maybe a belt or two off Matt Thornton. In fact, he'll be here soon to complete his training for his fight for Cage Contender next month.

I haven't got any footage of Conor rolling, but you could maybe take my word for it? He's not a black belt, but this doesn't mean he neglects wrestling and BJJ. A BJJ black belt is not the be all end all - it doesn't automatically enbue the person who wields one the power to submit all who are not black belts. Suffice to say Conor's a very good grappler.

I'm not saying Conor is our only hope - but he's one of those who's got a great chance at the minute.

Again, if you're basing your opinions on wiki pages and quick google searches, then maybe hang back and do some more research before you start thinking you know the lay of the land.

Google pages lol, I have trained with and trained (along with others) Alex Reid and John Maguire and others. Its just my opinion, if you want top pros you have to catch them young, international class grapplers start very young.

Richy06

cruasder777 wrote: »

Alex Reid!!!

Barry.Oglesby

Whoa. Cool it On the Alex Reid hate. He might be more commonly in the pages of OK magazine now but back before most people knew what mma was he was training and fighting. He was also dead nice to me in London about 8 years ago when I went to train there. A gentleman and a good pro.