Can you sponsor Irish Athletes?

budapest2012

This is something new so lets give it a go.Irish people want to support the athletes and not the association.
For your part I think you have already established an athlete/supporter relationship are up and coming and a perfect place to start.
With this will come a huge responsibility as those against the idea will look to find fault with it at every oppertunity.
A supporters club may be the best way where people may feel they are having some input.
As I say think long and hard about it but I for one will support you.

JamesyCal

I think this is an excellent idea.

Its amazing what our top sportspeople have achieved with extremely limited support.

For Mad Len, I think you should go ahead and put a PayPal link on your site, ask people if they want their donation published and then go ahead and publish those donations for transparency. I would certainly contribute - maybe a van load of Barry's tea !!

I fear setting up a more official site for a range of sportspeople will take a fair bit of time. When the suits and administrators get wind of this they will no doubt start weighing in with all the reasons not to do this and delay things even further.

The quicker someone with expertise in this area gets something up and running the less chance of it being scuppered. As others suggested, maybe piggy backing on an existing site would be the quickest way of moving - and ultimately getting a few bob from lots of us, to those representing Ireland to the best of their abilities.

James.

tommygunn

There have been a number of athletes of late have put their sponsorship on ebay. A couple of english guys did it when their funding was dropped. They sold themselves too.

Len you have nothing to lose so stick it on there. Something like the way the just giving site do would be ideal where people can choose to have their details published or not.

Also would be interesting to see what you get as it may take off and others latch onto it...

P.S. Just be wary of the taxman!

Gringo78

If something like a common website for donation could be setup then it would be great if sites like runireland.com, cork city marathon, dublin city marathon could have the links to it when a person finishes their online entry to a race - they might be in the right frame of mind to contribute a few euro towards an elite after forking out €90 on a half marathon entry.

robinph

tommygunn wrote: »

P.S. Just be wary of the taxman!

Think that is something that is definitely worth checking out first, but then go for it.

budapest2012

If 200 people could be persuaded to pledge 3euro per week (a relitively small ammount) for one year this would give an athlete 600 euro per week taking all the pressure off financially and allowing them to concentrate on training etc.For our part we would feel as if we have invested in the future of Irish Athletics.

Mad_len

Liking the responses thus far! Seems like a generally positive response. I'm chatting with the guys who help run my website at the moment regarding the best way to do it. Paypal button is most likely, and I'm definitely all for looking into merch etc as things progress. Thanks for the feedback, hard training day today but the time I have, I'll put into getting something more concrete together.

Cheers,
-Len

Thud

Good stuff Len. Get a paypal button up on your site and we'll keep you stocked up in hob nobs for a while.

Was thinking if you were to take deposits into a bank account and redistribute them it'd probably require setting up a company which would be a lot of hassle.

A paypal button for each athlete would be an easier route to go down.
But site hosting (and possibly set up)costs would have to be covered also

Thinking the structure would need to be similar to the www.mycharity.ie website.

Any thoughts on the tax implications?

Keep us posted on how you get on with your website guys, if there is anything we can do form over here let us know.

Larry Brent

Perhaps the athletes should set up an athletes association - something like the PFA in football in the UK. Whereby members pay a percentage of their grant, appearance or prize money to a fund and then they can decide how this is distributed to look after those in need, going through tough times or having had funding cut or just missed out on the criteria or whatever.

Members of the public, or fans and perhaps even the AAI could then also contribute to this fund.

The athletes association could have a committee or appoint someone to oversee how this is distributed to make sure it goes to the right place and is accounted for. Athletes could apply for some funding, putting forward their case as to why they need it and what exactly it will be spent on. I think people might be more willing to contribute if they can be assured the money is going to the right place and been spent in the right way.

Someone rightly pointed out above that this will take longer to sort out, but in the long term to have something more sustainable and accountable it might work out better.

Athletes power!

Thud

I think that sounds a bit too bureaucratic

I think having a direct link to the individual athlete is key.

The person sponsoring can decide which athlete(s) they sponsor be it on performances, the potential they see or the case they put forward in there bio/blog section

thirtyfoot

Larry Brent wrote: »

Perhaps the athletes should set up an athletes association - something like the PFA in football in the UK. Whereby members pay a percentage of their grant, appearance or prize money to a fund and then they can decide how this is distributed to look after those in need, going through tough times or having had funding cut or just missed out on the criteria or whatever.

Members of the public, or fans and perhaps even the AAI could then also contribute to this fund.

The athletes association could have a committee or appoint someone to oversee how this is distributed to make sure it goes to the right place and is accounted for. Athletes could apply for some funding, putting forward their case as to why they need it and what exactly it will be spent on. I think people might be more willing to contribute if they can be assured the money is going to the right place and been spent in the right way.

Someone rightly pointed out above that this will take longer to sort out, but in the long term to have something more sustainable and accountable it might work out better.

Athletes power!

Hey Larry, not a bad idea. Twas thrown around here before. Could work but would depend on what the MO was.

Larry Brent

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Hey Larry, not a bad idea. Twas thrown around here before. Could work but would depend on what the MO was.

To have a group (of themselves) to look after their interests might be a good thing. As well as looking after the welfare of athletes it might provide support and a stronger voice e.g. if they think qualifying standards set by AAI over and above those of IAAF are not to their liking; in the event of disputes over relay team members etc.

Larry Brent

Thud wrote: »

I think that sounds a bit too bureaucratic

Certainly it would take a bit of organising. But I'm sure they could get help form the likes of the GPA or other groups who have set something similar up.

Thud wrote: »

I think having a direct link to the individual athlete is key.

The person sponsoring can decide which athlete(s) they sponsor be it on performances, the potential they see or the case they put forward in there bio/blog section

The problem with this is that some athletes who may need the funding most might slip through the net. Those not currently in the limelight but with potential to be or to get back there again.

Thud

Larry Brent wrote: »

Certainly it would take a bit of organising. But I'm sure they could get help form the likes of the GPA or other groups who have set something similar up.

Yeah, sorry i think there is merit in having an Athletes association to speak for them as a group but i think that should be seperate from this.

I doubt there are many athletes with excess funds to contribute to a fund for development of other athletes and then it would be very difficult to decide who gets it...

Larry Brent wrote: »

The problem with this is that some athletes who may need the funding most might slip through the net. Those not currently in the limelight but with potential to be or to get back there again.

If they perform, grab some attention/headlines and update their section of the website they should stand a chance of getting some sponsorship as it they get (pretty much) zero until they get to a very high level.

It would be a merit based system, when you bring in a board to decide who gets what it's opened up to all sort of complications and potential for corruption, cut out the middle men.
Would also mean you can sponsor young jimmy from the local club because you think he's got what it takes instead of putting it into a pool and hoping some of it gets to him.

RacoonQueen

Anyone want to sponsor me?

christeb

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Anyone want to sponsor me?

Yep, here's a virtual donut

MacSwifty

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0119/1224310447002.html

Grant receipents (top end) listed in todays Times

Dan man

Len's gonna mention the sponsorship idea on radio tomorrow...hope we can see this through.

robinph

MacSwifty wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0119/1224310447002.html

Grant receipents (top end) listed in todays Times

Athletics doesn't do too bad out of that list, in terms of the numbers that qualify for something rather than the amounts they get.

RacoonQueen

christeb wrote: »

Yep, here's a virtual donut

I've gone cold turkey. That's no good for me.

kingQuez

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I've gone cold turkey. That's no good for me.

Pass it over here and ill eat it

coreprofitness

Hi guys,

Very interesting discussion and it's great that there are so many of you positive out there.
I have been involved in raising funds for one of our emerging athletes and it is tough. However, people buy people's stories. Talking to the sponsors and letting them see what their funds are going to be used for really helps - especially on a local level.
Hearing from mad-Len is fantastic for the cause. One of the most interesting suggestions is the association to represent athletes. Our athletes need representation and not necessarily management.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Tommy Gallagher

thirtyfoot

Len - how about every donater gets to own a brick in that house you are building. That way the Mullet Nation can all own a piece of the house.

tHE vAGGABOND

Excellent idea, I love the idea of contributing in some small way to someone taking part at the top level of "my sport"

I would not need "stuff" in return, personally, we are not dealing with Leinster Rugby with an office full of staff to arrange items, but someone running out there on their own - so a simple email every so often with how things are going is all that I, personally, would be after

When I was playing rugby I bought tickets for every raffle and arranged fund raisers a couple of times a year for my club - so its just taking that fundraising to another direction.

We want these folks to win races with the green vest on - so if they are worrying about how to pay the phone bill they wont do that

Woddle

Gets a mention in this article

http://www.thescore.ie/olionaird-reaches-out-to-irish-fans-for-financial-support-332309-Jan2012/

--amadeus--

This is potentially a very complex area. For example there are possible tax implications for someone who is receiving professional income from a non-national source (the Internet) while working in one jurisdiction (the US) but perhaps with tax domicile status elsewhere (Ireland). There are also the finer details of whatever other endorsement and sponsorship deals that the separate athletes may have that may limit thier scope for extrenal fundraising. Scholarships are an obvious example but it wouldn't be unheard of for a lead sponsor to have restrictions on what other commercial activities an athlete can and cannot take part in.

I would see two possible routes for this to develop down. The first is for individual athletes - like Len - to pop a Paypal link on the website. This leaves the control with the athlete and it is thier responsibility to manage the contractual and tax repercussions. I don't know if the money raised would justify the effort though. I have pretty much handed the Running Review over to James now because of work pressures but we had a couple of thousand unique visitors a week and had two paypal donations in a year (one from a good friend and one from someone who had written for the site). An athlete directly seeking sponsorship would have a greater conversion rate but I would still expect it to be minimal, especially after the initial flurry. And shaking a tin by promoting the donation link in blog posts can drive people away. It's a tough area to get right.

IMO a better route is the athletics union idea. A grouping that represents all elite athletes (or perhaps all athletes, back to the idea of independent quality control for races again!) could do a number of things. They could negotiate group sponsorship deals with the likes of Lucozade in the same manner as the GPA. They could also do material deals, so they could ask an airline to be the Athletes "airline of choice" in return for free or discounted flights to events, or have a "clothing line of choice" who kit athletes out with non-training gear. And they could then establish a charity that fundraises online and gifts money to athletes on a (for example) quarterly basis. Gifts are tax free to a certain level and this wouldn't impact on individuals sponsorship commitments. Cash could be dispensed from both fundraising and sponsorship on a ranking system basis. x points for performance in national, international and championship events, x points for reaching certain performance threasholds, x points for work promoting the commercial partners of the athletes union and so on. The more points the more cash.

As with everything in life the best solution isn't the easiest one.

shels4ever

--amadeus-- wrote: »

This is potentially a very complex area. For example there are possible tax implications for someone who is receiving professional income from a non-national source (the Internet) while working in one jurisdiction (the US) but perhaps with tax domicile status elsewhere (Ireland). There are also the finer details of whatever other endorsement and sponsorship deals that the separate athletes may have that may limit thier scope for extrenal fundraising. Scholarships are an obvious example but it wouldn't be unheard of for a lead sponsor to have restrictions on what other commercial activities an athlete can and cannot take part in.

I would see two possible routes for this to develop down. The first is for individual athletes - like Len - to pop a Paypal link on the website. This leaves the control with the athlete and it is thier responsibility to manage the contractual and tax repercussions. I don't know if the money raised would justify the effort though. I have pretty much handed the Running Review over to James now because of work pressures but we had a couple of thousand unique visitors a week and had two paypal donations in a year (one from a good friend and one from someone who had written for the site). An athlete directly seeking sponsorship would have a greater conversion rate but I would still expect it to be minimal, especially after the initial flurry. And shaking a tin by promoting the donation link in blog posts can drive people away. It's a tough area to get right.

IMO a better route is the athletics union idea. A grouping that represents all elite athletes (or perhaps all athletes, back to the idea of independent quality control for races again!) could do a number of things. They could negotiate group sponsorship deals with the likes of Lucozade in the same manner as the GPA. They could also do material deals, so they could ask an airline to be the Athletes "airline of choice" in return for free or discounted flights to events, or have a "clothing line of choice" who kit athletes out with non-training gear. And they could then establish a charity that fundraises online and gifts money to athletes on a (for example) quarterly basis. Gifts are tax free to a certain level and this wouldn't impact on individuals sponsorship commitments. Cash could be dispensed from both fundraising and sponsorship on a ranking system basis. x points for performance in national, international and championship events, x points for reaching certain performance threasholds, x points for work promoting the commercial partners of the athletes union and so on. The more points the more cash.

As with everything in life the best solution isn't the easiest one.

Did you not have this idea in the past? what ever happened in the end?

--amadeus--

shels4ever wrote: »

Did you not have this idea in the past? what ever happened in the end?

Which one - I have so many ideas I lose track

A long time back I suggested an athletic bursary, we agreed a structure but got bogged down when we tried to recruit people to administer a bank account (lots of enthusiasm no commitment, a common theme for things like this!). I tried to revive it a while back but the thread was locked because the mods felt that at that stage it was inappropriate for the forum. No publicity, no bursary!

I also suggested a road runners union a while ago to act as an independent quality control for races but the majority felt that the AAI permit system was good enough. I don't agree but even I have to give in to a majority sometimes...

RayCun

We (mods) did discuss fundraising for athletes over the summer. I would be very much against having Boards, or this forum, try to manage a bank account or a bursary ourselves. Too many ways in which it could turn very ugly.

But publicising an existing charity/appeal, or even organising fundraising events...? Maybe.

dna_leri

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Len - how about every donater gets to own a brick in that house you are building. That way the Mullet Nation can all own a piece of the house.

I thought that was a metaphorical house, the one with no roof. I would be happy enough to own a metaphorical brick, if I was to donate. I would not be looking for anything in return, except to feel part of the future success.

I think most of us would like to know how the money raised was spent, I don't mean detailed accounts, more like - due to the 3K donations I was able to spend an extra week at altitude, or to travel to a track meet in the outer Hebrides etc.

All the talk of "athletics union" is grand but as outsiders that is not someting we can influence. Fund raising by individual athletes is the way to start it off, later maybe athletes can organise themselves to groupings.

@Mad-Len - go ahead and put that paypal button up on your website, you have nothing to lose. Just talk to your tax advisor first. Something similar to wikipedia is appropriate. Lots of other athletes have tried stuff Aly Dixon £2012 for 2012; James Ellington who although his eBay bid was unsuccessful ended up with a decent sponsorship anyway. With the run-up to olympics, there will be fewer better opportunities.