Major appliances - who's responsible for repair?

redz11

I'm about to move into a new apartment, and have been asked to sign a contract, which includes the line "Should breakdown of major appliances occur, costs are to be shared equally."

Is this correct? I would have thought that this was generally the landlord's responsibility (although I'm open to correction there.) Could I at least ask to include a clause that I wouldn't be liable for breakdowns that occur within, say, three months of moving into the place?

I'd also appreciate any advice on general points which I should ensure are included in such an agreement, from a tenant's point of view!

ProudDUB

I would not sign that lease if I were you. In most cases, it is the landlords responsibility to repair or replace major appliances that were provided when the tenant moved in. If the landlord can prove that the appliance broke down due to improper use by the tenant, then he would be within his rights to ask the tenant to share the cost of repair/replacement, or deduct same from their deposit. But if it is just normal wear and tear, old age etc, it is up to the landlord to repair them. Why should you have to pay half the costs to repair or replace something that broke down due the use it got from former tenants?

odds_on

ProudDUB wrote: »

I would not sign that lease if I were you. In most cases, it is the landlords responsibility to repair or replace major appliances that were provided when the tenant moved in. If the landlord can prove that the appliance broke down due to improper use by the tenant, then he would be within his rights to ask the tenant to share the cost of repair/replacement, or deduct same from their deposit. But if it is just normal wear and tear, old age etc, it is up to the landlord to repair them. Why should you have to pay half the costs to repair or replace something that broke down due the use it got from former tenants?

+1

Absolutely correct ProudDUB

Borderfox

Depends if all the appliances are new, if they are then they are usually covered by a guarantee? if they are then no need for the clause in the contract.

ProudDUB

I took the OP to mean that they are moving into an apt that is new to them, not new as in just built. However, even if it is a brand new apt & the the fridge, cooker etc may be brand new, other appliances such as the kettle, microwave, washing machine, hoover etc etc may be older ones that the landlord brought from an older property. They may be knackered. OP should not be on the hook for those when they eventually give up the ghost.

redz11

ProudDUB wrote: »

I took the OP to mean that they are moving into an apt that is new to them, not new as in just built.

Thanks for the replies - and, just to clarify, that's what I meant, that it's new to me, there have already been people living there the past couple of years.

djimi

The landlord is having a laugh. They are responsible for the repairing/replacing of any major applicances that they provide, and they have no right to expect you to share that cost. Obviously its up to you whether or not you feel it is worth it to agree to such a clause (the apartment might be very cheap or something that we dont know about), but its not the norm for the landlord to expect such a thing, and if they try to suggest that it is then walk away.

CricketDude

Thinking about it, It would make sense from your LLs point of view, for all landlords to put a clause like that into their leases. But unless they all do it then people will just refuse to sign the lease, as you should.

Ray Palmer

CricketDude wrote: »

Thinking about it, It would make sense from your LLs point of view, for all landlords to put a clause like that into their leases. But unless they all do it then people will just refuse to sign the lease, as you should.

It makes a lot of sense to make the tenant feel responsible for an appliance but it is still a no go. The tenant has no say on the machines bought and has no right to the machines afterwards.

It is bloody hard to make a tenant take responsibility for misuse of appliance but it should be straight forward.

gurramok

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It makes a lot of sense to make the tenant feel responsible for an appliance but it is still a no go. The tenant has no say on the machines bought and has no right to the machines afterwards.

It is bloody hard to make a tenant take responsibility for misuse of appliance but it should be straight forward.

Please elaborate on how a tenant can abuse a fridge, freezer, washing machine, dryer, dishwasher and a cooker?

bryaner

gurramok wrote: »

Please elaborate on how a tenant can abuse a fridge, freezer, washing machine, dryer, dishwasher and a cooker?

Well for the washing machine not emptying out pockets and letting coins etc down into the pump and wrecking it, and for the dishwasher not scraping off plates properly and jamming up the water level control valve and flooding the kitchen.

gurramok

bryaner wrote: »

Well for the washing machine not emptying out pockets and letting coins etc down into the pump and wrecking it, and for the dishwasher not scraping off plates properly and jamming up the water level control valve and flooding the kitchen.

You know something, they are once in a million case. You really have a dim view of tenants if you think they go that far to break those appliances.

bryaner

gurramok wrote: »

You know something, they are once in a million case. You really have a dim view of tenants if you think they go that far to break those appliances.

Ha ha relax yourself, I give a mate of mine a hand from time to time lifting out the said machines from rentals (he looks after a number of properties for some dude). The washing machine pumps have been destroyed in a lot of them by the tenants lack of care to empty their pockets, and many dishwashers have overflowed from foodstuffs jamming up the water level valve..

So yea I'd say a good deal of tenants don't look after the said appliances as if they were there own, and on the flip side many do too.

Ray Palmer

gurramok wrote: »

Please elaborate on how a tenant can abuse a fridge, freezer, washing machine, dryer, dishwasher and a cooker?

Washing machine/dryer: Washing runners , overloading the machine etc..
Cooker: simply not cleaning it, braking the doors ( I assume by leaning on them) etc...
Fridge/freezer Not defrosting them, breaking doors, leaving them open
Dishwasher overloading and jaming thing in, again doors.

It is basically down to treating them very roughly. I have said it before that I have the same appliance as places I rented out and the life span of machines in a rental is about a third of what I am getting. Generally there is no point buying good appliances becasue they last no longer and just cost more. Doors and handles breaking is the most common and that is really only down to rough treatment.

People don't exactly come clean either and ALWAYS blame the appliance. I have never had a fridge door come off at home but very common in a rented place. Sometimes you can change the swing on the door but most times you have to get a new appliance

djimi

If a landlord feels that any part of the accomodation, including appliances, has been damaged through being mistreated then they are entitled to take it up with the tenant and look after any repairs from the deposit if necessary. The normal maintenance of an appliance due to regular wear and tear is the responsibility of a landlord, and if landlords are allowed to start writing clauses into contracts like the one in the OP then I fear that would lead to abuse of such clauses and tenants made to pay for repairs/replacing an appliance that they are not responsible for.

Cuddlesworth

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Washing machine/dryer: Washing runners , overloading the machine etc..
Cooker: simply not cleaning it, braking the doors ( I assume by leaning on them) etc...
Fridge/freezer Not defrosting them, breaking doors, leaving them open
Dishwasher overloading and jaming thing in, again doors.

It is basically down to treating them very roughly. I have said it before that I have the same appliance as places I rented out and the life span of machines in a rental is about a third of what I am getting. Generally there is no point buying good appliances becasue they last no longer and just cost more. Doors and handles breaking is the most common and that is really only down to rough treatment.

People don't exactly come clean either and ALWAYS blame the appliance. I have never had a fridge door come off at home but very common in a rented place. Sometimes you can change the swing on the door but most times you have to get a new appliance

That's bad tenants and I feel sorry for you. But I'm not a bad tenant and wouldn't sign a contract like that. If you want me to pay for 30% of a fridge, I'm taking 30% of it when I leave.

Ray Palmer

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

That's bad tenants and I feel sorry for you. But I'm not a bad tenant and wouldn't sign a contract like that. If you want me to pay for 30% of a fridge, I'm taking 30% of it when I leave.

That's tenants for you. If they don't own it they don't take care of it. It is just the way people are. Most will not do simple maintenace, expecting everything done for them.

I see the logic that they are paying for a service but there are some really basic stuff people should be able and willing to do.

I wouldn't suggest any tenant sign such a lease either but I see the logic.

bgo1

Wow nice lease..if its signed..and people wonder why landlords get a bad rep.

Landlords iv ever had seem to think all appliances should last over 10years because they havent budgeted for proper maintenance costs when buying and then renting out a house. Its easy to say tenants treat things rougher but thats also a simplistic argument. Everything needs replaced and repaired at some stage in its life!

Ray Palmer

bgo1 wrote: »

Wow nice lease..if its signed..and people wonder why landlords get a bad rep.

Landlords iv ever had seem to think all appliances should last over 10years because they havent budgeted for proper maintenance costs when buying and then renting out a house. Its easy to say tenants treat things rougher but thats also a simplistic argument. Everything needs replaced and repaired at some stage in its life!

Missing the point completely same appliance in my house lasts roughly 7 years but in a rented place only 2 years. That isn't once, that isn't twice it is at leat 8 times.
Care to explain why this is if it is not rougher handling?
I certainly expect an appliance to last half the time I can use it. I had a washining machine that lasted 15 years no problem yet in the same time I have replaced the washing machine in one flat 6 times!

Considering this is a unusual lease why anybody would use this to brand all LL the people giving LL a bad name are the people who assume the worst not LLs.

I am not assuming the machines will last forever but I know the reality that a tenant will damage property they don't own becasue every single tenant I have had manages to do this and I keep records. It is a simplistic argument becasue it is simple cause and common factor. Human nature nothing unique to anybody

Thoie

bgo1 wrote: »

Landlords iv ever had seem to think all appliances should last over 10years because they havent budgeted for proper maintenance costs when buying and then renting out a house. Its easy to say tenants treat things rougher but thats also a simplistic argument. Everything needs replaced and repaired at some stage in its life!

I'm not a tenant, and my washer/dryer is hitting the 10 year mark, as are my kettle and toaster (and they look like new because I wipe them down and clean them from time to time). My last fridge/freezer died after 5 years, and I was disgusted - every other fridge/freezer I or my parents have owned has lasted 10-15 years. My dishwasher is 6 years old, and I expect it to last at least another 5 years, minimum. Again, I don't dump food in there, and I clean the filter and seals from time to time.

If I was renting somewhere out I'd expect the appliances to last about the same length of time and to be spotless.

djimi

Ray you seem to have a dim view of tenants and it sounds like you have been unlucky with the tenants you have (either that or you buy rubbish appliances for your property), but I am very certain that as a rule the majority of renters will look after their appliances. I know from my experience it is in my interest to look after appliances; our washing machine packed in a few months back (it was ancient) and it took two weeks for the landlord to get it up and running. I would not want to go through that every year...

ProudDUB

Thoie, that is an unrealistic expectation imo. People are not going to take care of something that is somebody else's responsibility to repair/replace as well as they would if they were on the hook for its repair. I rent. Out of respect for my landlords possesions, I don't overload my dishwasher, my washing machine or my dryer. But I could save a ton of money on my ESB bill if I did. My dryer in particular hoovers up units of electricity like an alcoholic in a brewery. I could save a ton of money if I overloaded it, and did 2 loads of sheets and towels in it when I really should do 3. I don't, but if I did, over time I would shorten its life span. I bet there are a lot of people out there who do do that coz they really couldn't give a crap about the proper use of an appliance, or how much it will cost SOME ONE ELSE to repair.

Thoie

ProudDUB wrote: »

Thoie, that is an unrealistic expectation imo. People are not going to take care of something that is somebody else's responsibility to repair/replace as well as they would if they were on the hook for its repair. I rent. Out of respect for my landlords possesions, I don't overload my dishwasher, my washing machine or my dryer. But I could save a ton of money on my ESB bill if I did. My dryer in particular hoovers up units of electricity like an alcoholic in a brewery. I could save a ton of money if I overloaded it, and did 2 loads of sheets and towels in it when I really should do 3. I don't, but if I did, over time I would shorten its life span. I bet there are a lot of people out there who do do that coz they really couldn't give a crap about the proper use of an appliance, or how much it will cost SOME ONE ELSE to repair.

And we're back around in a circle again
If landlords are aware that there are a lot of people out there who won't take care of something that they don't have to pay to repair, maybe a clause in a tenancy agreement that the tenant has to pay part of the cost would encourage people to take better care of things?

I agree that if something has just reached its natural lifespan, it shouldn't be up to the tenant to pay to repair/replace, but if a 2 year old appliance needs expensive repairs just cos some sod has no respect for others' belongings, then a repair bill might encourage them to take better care.

n900guy

redz11 wrote: »

I'm about to move into a new apartment, and have been asked to sign a contract, which includes the line "Should breakdown of major appliances occur, costs are to be shared equally."

Is this correct? I would have thought that this was generally the landlord's responsibility (although I'm open to correction there.) Could I at least ask to include a clause that I wouldn't be liable for breakdowns that occur within, say, three months of moving into the place?

I'd also appreciate any advice on general points which I should ensure are included in such an agreement, from a tenant's point of view!

My opinion:

- breakdowns (significant) of major applicances that affect the normal functioning like e.g., broken boiler, washing mashine no longer functioning, should be met by the landlord.

- normal maintenance and "cop on" work that needs to be done and normal wear and tear usage by the tenant (e.g., correctly setting things like heating and so on). Make sure nothing is blocked like a drain in the bath and so on.

The apartment should be useable for the whole duration of your tenancy not e.g., 3 months.

Ray Palmer

djimi wrote: »

Ray you seem to have a dim view of tenants and it sounds like you have been unlucky with the tenants you have (either that or you buy rubbish appliances for your property), but I am very certain that as a rule the majority of renters will look after their appliances.

I have experence and I am sharing the experence. Having told you that the same appliance in my house lasted 15 years but I got 2 years use in a rented place that is the reality. I tried buying top range appliances and they last no longer. in 20 years of renting of 5 places to suggest I have just bad luck with tenants is a bit silly. The majority of people care less about things that don't effect them that is human nature and the majority of people.

Unless you have expereince of dealing with what tenants do you will find it hard to beleive what they actually do. Being called down to unplug a sink and switch the tap off becasue the place was flooding still amazes me. Calls to change a light bulb have happened more than once. Seilling children hanging from washing machine and fridge doors has happened more than once.

Your certainty of how tenants will act does not marry up with what any long term LL will tell you, you can beleive that or not. Having worked all around the world in many building many people do not take care of things belonged to others. I accept itand it doesn't really bother me anymore.

CricketDude

As if to reinforce the point that people who dont look after things that they dont own, I called into a friends house on the way home from work. They have been renting it for 6 months now.
Sitting in the kitchen drinking tea and the kids were swinging on the washing machine door. Their parents didnt give a sh1te. Just watched them.

gurramok

Maybe i'm a special case of a tenant(;)), 2 years i'm in this place and the appliances are still working. I stopped using the washing machine though as it was taking too long to do a wash\dry and bring my washing to a relations house where the same wash takes a third of the time hence lower bill for me

I don't use the dishwasher, i manually wash the cutlery. I rarely use the cooker as I have a mini-oven snatched outta Lidl. I've regularly defrosted the freezer and fixed a leak at the back of the fridge myself.

Perhaps i'm an ideal tenant, pity i'm not Ray's

bgo1

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Missing the point completely same appliance in my house lasts roughly 7 years but in a rented place only 2 years. That isn't once, that isn't twice it is at leat 8 times.
Care to explain why this is if it is not rougher handling?
I certainly expect an appliance to last half the time I can use it. I had a washining machine that lasted 15 years no problem yet in the same time I have replaced the washing machine in one flat 6 times!

Considering this is a unusual lease why anybody would use this to brand all LL the people giving LL a bad name are the people who assume the worst not LLs.

I am not assuming the machines will last forever but I know the reality that a tenant will damage property they don't own becasue every single tenant I have had manages to do this and I keep records. It is a simplistic argument becasue it is simple cause and common factor. Human nature nothing unique to anybody

I dont see how i have the missed. Landlords, i should clarify, are not all money grabbing but a lot are and iv being through it many times but in the OP's case the Landlord wants her to pay part of the cost she may not have contributed to.

Most houses/flats turn over tenants quite often, so if year 1 and year 2 tenants didnt break washing machine but neglected it and OP arrives in on year 3 and 2 months later the washing machine go kaput..she has to pay for the negligence of the past 2 sets of tenants..????

No, id prefer if the landlord budgeted for the unexpected when it comes to the washine maching, you are aware the landlord can regularly inspect so he can check filters himeself and inform the tenant of their responsibilities if they are being neglected. Often people just dont have a clue a machine needs to be maintained and a reminder will help them massively. Most people dont deliberately aim to mess up the equipment they need.

Even making sure the manuals for the machines are in the kitchen (frequently they are not) or put a few pointers and laminate it on to the top of the washing machine as a reminder i.e Landlords can be a bit PRO-ACTIVE i know its a radical concept for some.

As Ray Palmer who seems to be a landlord states, he now expects things to go wrong frequently and it doesnt bother him as much anymore. If your in the business, deal with it or sell up and get out of the business, every business has its reckless customers but majority are not so factor it in to the costs.

I had a landlord moan to me before about how difficult the business was in while simultaneously taking part of my deposit small scuffs on a bedroom wall. Do you think i give a F... how hard it is. its a busines and this is what happens in all types of business's when dealing with people. Moaning will just make you resentful..as i must sound now lol

ann0

landlords are responsible for all repairs of washing machines dishwashers and fridges.( normal wear and tear ).theyre not responsible for items that are broken by hard use .they are also responsible for a yrly services to gas boilers.some landlords wont do it and thats a criminal offence

BostonB

This crud is why we should move to an unfurnished rental model.

As it stands though a tenant shouldn't sign a lease like that. But I can understand why a LL would try to include it . Even allowing for a rental being much harder on everything than your own home. But the amount of abnormal breakages in rentals is just staggering.

Merch

It would make sense for both the tenant and the landlord
Tenant takes care of their own stuff, can have the quality type they want, landlord isnt responsible for it.

Seems simple,