Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12-Jan 2012 onwards

daithijjj

In 10 years, or maybe 15, there wont be so much emphasis on the top league in different countries, there will be full emphasis on a breakaway European league imho. The current state of the Champions league is just a stepping stone to that, its a mutation that hasnt evolved fully yet. People forget that this is what UEFA ultimately wanted but clubs and fans werent behind it enough. That will change.

Over the next few years FFPR will be in full swing, clubs will have to be seriously overspending to get banned from competitions in Europe, but they will be banned from buying players for 12 months or more. Thats the reality imo. The Champions league will probably expand in the interim in my view.

ush

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

It is not a guarantee by any means but it isn't something that burns out after a few seasons.

We haven't won the league in 20 odd years and have only one the European Cup once in that period.

Yet now, all of a sudden, the reputation of the club is not sufficient to sign a top tier player.

It is complete nonsense to be honest. There are maybe a handful of clubs in the world that a player might sign for ahead of us if they had the choice.

I don't agree really. With respect, Liverpool's history isn't gonna attract top players anymore. The city is a loser in the whole era of globalisation. You telling me that young ambitious multi-millionaires are gonna be attacted by what the city has to offer or the club's history. LFC 2012 is a harder sell than alot of you lads realise.

OwaynOTT

mixednuts wrote: »

This is who I see influenced or brought the idea of the signings :

Carroll = Kenny
Downing= Kenny
Adam = Kenny
Henderson = Camolli
Bellamy = Kenny
Suarez = Camolli
Doni = Osmonds

but yea the book stops with the manager

Ah fairly certain that Suarez was scouted before Comolli came in. Infact I recall something about Kenny actually watching him a bit.

Now I could be wrong.

jesus_thats_gre

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Yes it's great news we secured such sought after players like Carroll, Henderson, Enrique, Bellamy and Adam. Maybe he signed for us because no CL team was interested and Ajax accepted an offer? I don't remember any other CL team bidding £23m for him.

Maybe he did, but maybe he didn't? We didn't hear about us beating other clubs
to the Suarez's signature. Then again, we didn't really hear that when we signed Torres, Reina, Alonso.

The only player that I can remember in recent seasons where it was common knowledge that we bet another club to the signing was Glen Johnson.

That is why I asked the simple question as to whether there was any facts (or even any information at all) that backs up the claim.

jesus_thats_gre

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Ah fairly certain that Suarez was scouted before Comolli and in. Intact I recall something about Kenny actually watching him a bit.

Now I could be wrong.

Kenny stated multiple times that Rafa had asked him to scout him long before he was signed.

Chucky the tree

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Maybe he did, but maybe he didn't? We didn't hear about us beating other clubs
to the Suarez's signature. Then again, we didn't really hear that when we signed Torres, Reina, Alonso.

The only player that I can remember in recent seasons where it was common knowledge that we bet another club to the signing was Glen Johnson.

That is why I asked the simple question as to whether there was any facts (or even any information at all) that backs up the claim.

Well it's impossible to get facts. One person coming out and saying something won't even make it a fact. Everyone will have their own opinion on it which will stem from they personnel views and guesstimations.

jesus_thats_gre

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Well it's impossible to get facts. One person coming out and saying something won't even make it a fact. Everyone will have their own opinion on it which will stem from they personnel views and guesstimations.

I appreciate that - even token evidence or rumours of us missing out on players to lower or similarly regarded clubs that are in the CL.

Anything at all to back up the assertions in fact.

Blatter

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I understand that point but what backs up the claim in relation to LFC specifically?

Back it up in relation to LFC?

Do you think LFC would have signed Downing for £20m and Carroll for £35m if the club was in the CL? Or do you think they would have went after a higher caliber of player?

It was widely touted that ye were in for Jones, Young and Mata in the Summer, do you not think that ye would have had a much better shot at getting at least one of those players if ye were in the CL?

rarnes1 wrote: »

Money and win things.

So that would mean there'd be very little top players outside the top few teams in every league across Europe and we know that's not true.

I do wonder about some posters and their knowledge of football sometimes.

What are you on about? Obviously there are top players at smaller clubs, I mean well done captain obvious. As cambo said they more often than not become top players at those smaller clubs rather than choosing to sign for those clubs as top players.

Obviously the context of the discussion was about these top players transferring to LFC so your point is moot.

ush

I don't want to go all Rumsfeldian, but there are known unknowns and unknown knowns.

Liverpool would be signing a better class of player than Adam and Downing if we were a CL club. And we wouldn't have been in a panic to sign Carroll for 35 million quid. If we were a CL club we wouldn't have been playing those figures for the likes of Downing and Carroll.

Morzadec

Bad result for us tonight in the San Siro...

jesus_thats_gre

Blatter wrote: »

Back it up in relation to LFC?

Do you think LFC would have signed Downing for £20m and Carroll for £35m if the club was in the CL? Or do you think they would have went after a higher caliber of player?

It was widely touted that ye were in for Jones, Young and Mata in the Summer, do you not think that ye would have had a much better shot at getting at least one of those players if ye were in the CL?

Read my posts again.

jesus_thats_gre

ush wrote: »

I don't want to go all Rumsfeldian, but there are known unknowns and unknown knowns.

Liverpool would be signing a better class of player than Adam and Downing if we were a CL club. And we wouldn't have been in a panic to sign Carroll for 35 million quid. If we were a CL club we wouldn't have been playing those figures for the likes of Downing and Carroll.

I don't actually believe that they would - satisfied that they signed who they wanted too... Raises other questions but that is a different discussion.

Hoki

When we were a champions league team we "attracted" & signed the likes of Alonso, Torres, Mascherano.

2 years without champions league football & we have "attracted" & signed players of much less quality.

Make of that what you will but there is definitely a way better chance of getting top level players when your involved in the Champions League. Our name as a club can only get us so far.

Blatter

Blatter wrote: »

Back it up in relation to LFC?

Do you think LFC would have signed Downing for £20m and Carroll for £35m if the club was in the CL? Or do you think they would have went after a higher caliber of player?

It was widely touted that ye were in for Jones, Young and Mata in the Summer, do you not think that ye would have had a much better shot at getting at least one of those players if ye were in the CL?



.

Mata is the only one that has been consistant of those 3.

Glico Man

Morzadec wrote: »

Bad result for us tonight in the San Siro...

Can go two ways tbh. One sees them go on a charge for the CL positions, the other sees them drop in confidence and trundle to the end of the season.

murpho999

Morzadec wrote: »

Bad result for us tonight in the San Siro...

Don't agree.....that was a bad defeat for Arsenal that could seriously damage confidence and morale that will affect their league performance.

aaronh007

aaronh007 wrote: »

Can go two ways tbh. One sees them go on a charge for the CL positions, the other sees them drop in confidence and trundle to the end of the season.

A defeat like that is never good tbh.

An injury to Van Persie and they are curtains

Morzadec

murpho999 wrote: »

Don't agree.....that was a bad defeat for Arsenal that could seriously damage confidence and morale that will affect their league performance.

I agree in some ways that it's basically a win-win situation, but I still feel tiredness/injuries is going to have more of an effect than a loss of confidence. One win against a poor Prem team and a refocus on clinching the 4th spot and the loss against Milan will be put behind them.

I'd rather Chelsea and Arsenal distracted as long as possible

opr

Liverpool will host the first NextGen Series semi-final against Ajax at Anfield on March 14 (7pm), with Inter Milan facing Marseille in the other semi-final at Brentford’s Griffin Park on March 21.

The final will be at Selhurst Park on March 25.

Opr

murpho999

Morzadec wrote: »

I agree in some ways that it's basically a win-win situation, but I still feel tiredness/injuries is going to have more of an effect than a loss of confidence. One win against a poor Prem team and a refocus on clinching the 4th spot and the loss against Milan will be put behind them.

I'd rather Chelsea and Arsenal distracted as long as possible

Remember if they'd beaten Milan then their confidence would soar and they could string results in the PL on the back of it.

I'd expect Arsenal could struggle a bit now and it's up to Liverpool now to go out and grab the chance and win league games: Hopefully they'll have confidence after 2 cup wins and lifting a trophy!

opr

tbh if we can't beat that Arsenal squad to fourth then we well and truly won't have deserved it.

Opr

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/427579_2652523670722_1184672115_32206543_1067835857_n.jpg

Blatter

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Read my posts again.

I have read them.

You were asking for information (in relation to LFC) that indicated that players care much more about money and CL rather than the history of the club?

All you have to do is look at the majority of the signings LFC have made the last two years and compare them to the likes of Torres, Mascherano etc. who were signed when the club was in the CL. That is information that backs it up. The fact that Torres left backs it up.

You also said in an above post that Liverpool have secured the players that they've gone after in recent months. Do you not think the club were in for Jones, Young, Mata etc?

And you won't hear about a lot of players that the club have tried for as often tentative inquiries are obviously often made that are knocked back straight away so talks don't drag on and thus have less chance of going public.

You can obviously get lucky sometimes, but on the whole sustained CL football is vital to be well placed to attract the better players and the top class prospects.

rarnes1 wrote: »

Mata is the only one that has been consistant of those 3.

And? Young has been injured a lot and Jones is 19.

I'm sure ye would have love to have gotten them tbh.

ush

murpho999 wrote: »

Don't agree.....that was a bad defeat for Arsenal that could seriously damage confidence and morale that will affect their league performance.

Here's hoping...:D

ush

murpho999 wrote: »

Remember if they'd beaten Milan then their confidence would soar and they could string results in the PL on the back of it.

I'd expect Arsenal could struggle a bit now and it's up to Liverpool now to go out and grab the chance and win league games: Hopefully they'll have confidence after 2 cup wins and lifting a trophy!

Newcastle it is then.

5starpool

rarnes1 wrote: »

A defeat like that is never good tbh.

An injury to Van Persie and they are curtains

Hopefully it has a similar affect on them as the CC cup final defeat last year. No 4th then Van Persie is almost certainly off I reckon, and probably Wenger too.

Sappy404

rarnes1 wrote: »

Mata is the only one that has been consistant of those 3.

And most respectable journalists on Twitter were of the opinion that we weren't in for him (or at least that they'd only heard about any interest online). It was a running joke between Tony Evans, Gabriele Marcotti et al for quite a while, with them stating "IT'S ON!!!" on a regular basis every time there was a mention of him turning down a move elsewhere or suggesting he might stay at Valencia.

murpho999

ush wrote: »

Newcastle it is then.

Could happen as they have been playing well and are under no pressure or expectation, just see how they react to Spurs defeat.

ASOT

Joseph Musker
If selected on Sunday, Jamie Carragher will equal Ian Callaghan's record of 210 cup games for the club. #LFC

rossie1977

Blatter wrote: »

All you have to do is look at the majority of the signings LFC have made the last two years and compare them to the likes of Torres, Mascherano etc. who were signed when the club was in the CL. That is information that backs it up. The fact that Torres left backs it up.

to be fair mascherano couldn't even get on the west ham bench when liverpool took him on loan

liverpool took a chance on torres, like they did on suarez, spanish forwards the previous 3-4 years had struggled in england e.g morientes, reyes, other teams just were not interested in torres at the time and liverpool took the opportunity, madrid didn't rate him at all and i remember many "experts" in england asking how good torres is if the likes of kanoute and forlan (two players that were total flops in the premier league) are outscoring him in la liga

look at the players liverpool were able to attract in the summer of 2005 as european champions: peter crouch, mohammed sissoko, boudewijn zenden, jose reina, not one of those were considered big names at the time, newcastle on the other hand were able to attract multiple national and international "big names" that summer such as owen

daithijjj

Aquilani not fit enough to play tonight (shocker) but ok to get photos with Djokovic.

missingtime

daithijjj wrote: »

Aquilani not fit enough to play tonight (shocker) but ok to get photos with Djokovic.

Should have stayed with us

Ferris_Bueller

Why is the other semi final of the next gen being played in Brentford?

seanwhite20

that Aquilani fella is a shítehawk.....

mike65

ASOT wrote: »

Joseph Musker
If selected on Sunday, Jamie Carragher will equal Ian Callaghan's record of 210 cup games for the club. #LFC

Lets hope Ians record remains unequalled

opr

daithijjj wrote: »

Aquilani not fit enough to play tonight (shocker) but ok to get photos with Djokovic.

No surprise he can pose for pictures considering he has been back in training this week and should be match fit very soon. I can't believe you wouldn't have wanted him if only as a squad player considering all we are going to get is €6m!

I mean we could do with a few players who had made this kind of contribution this season before his injury

AC Milan

Appearances - 20
Starts - 15
Full 90 - 12
Goals - 1
Direct Assists - 9

Opr

daithijjj

opr wrote: »

No surprise he can pose for pictures considering he has been back in training this week and should be match fit very soon. I can't believe you wouldn't have wanted him if only as a squad player considering all we are going to get is €6m!

I mean we could do with a few players who had made this kind of contribution this season before his injury

AC Milan

Appearances - 20
Starts - 15
Full 90 - 12
Goals - 1
Direct Assists - 9

Opr

He should never have been signed and his signing ultimately cost Benitez his job. Thats where it finishes and ends. Ever since the new owners came in it was an operation in diminishing our liabilities on him. Two loan fee's plus wages saved.

The mistake we made this season was selling Meireles, i dont care what he is up to at Chelsea, the fact remains, and i said it at the time, when we sold Meireles we went from 4/1 to about 10/1 to get 4th in my eyes and nothing has changed. We have been crying out for Meireles this year and its a black mark on our dealings as much as anyone who has been signed.

daithijjj

"Toni Silva is a very good player and he has certainly got Premier League quality." - Northampton boss Aidy Bothroyd on LFC youngster.

opr

daithijjj wrote: »

He should never have been signed and his signing ultimately cost Benitez his job. Thats where it finishes and ends. Ever since the new owners came in it was an operation in diminishing our liabilities on him. Two loan fee's plus wages saved.

The mistake we made this season was selling Meireles, i dont care what he is up to at Chelsea, the fact remains, and i said it at the time, when we sold Meireles we went from 4/1 to about 10/1 to get 4th in my eyes and nothing has changed. We have been crying out for Meireles this year and its a black mark on our dealings as much as anyone who has been signed.

I agree he should never have been signed but compounding that mistake by finally getting him fit and then loaning him was ridiculous. Then after he was fit had a good season behind him and was our best player by some margin in pre-season agreeing to loan him with an option to buy for €6m just seems utterly mental.

I have never gotten your love for Meireles. He is an average player who I would have loved to have had in the squad but this season at Chelsea has shown he never was the player people alluded towards in this thread. The goals he scored at Liverpool covered over the fact he just isn't the player many thought. Saying that I would have him in our starting line-up next week.

Opr

Nalz

opr wrote: »

tbh if we can't beat that Arsenal squad to fourth then we well and truly won't have deserved it.

Talk about stating the obvious. With 2/3s of the season gone Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Newcastle have drawn 26 games and lost 27 games between them.

One of these teams will get 4th it seems but it could be a low points tally.

daithijjj

opr wrote: »

I agree he should never have been signed but compounding that mistake by finally getting him fit and then loaning him was ridiculous. Then after he was fit had a good season behind him and was our best player by some margin in pre-season agreeing to loan him with an option to buy for €6m just seems utterly mental.

I have never gotten your love for Meireles. He is an average player who I would have loved to have had in the squad but this season at Chelsea has shown he never was the player people alluded towards in this thread. The goals he scored at Liverpool covered over the fact he just isn't the player many thought. Saying that I would have him in our starting line-up next week.

Opr

I dont have a love for Meireles, i have a dislike for not having a player like him fit and ready to go 99% of the time in the squad.

He was great at linking the midfield to attack and popping up everywhere, generally being a pain in the hole to mark. He has only missed around a dozen league games in 6 years for his clubs. Probably up there with the worst tacklers in the history of football but we didnt need him for that.

Forget about the money on Aquilani. If we sell him for 6mil we will effectively have saved ourselves 12-14mil overall against his contract. We can argue all day about who we bought and sold, doesnt matter.

For me, we folded far too easily over Meireles, Spurs spent a long time convincing Modric to stay, as soon as that happened we folded like an accordion to get Meireles out. Theres a few worrying things for me. We seem to have gone about our business without real thought for the here and now. We should be balancing the here and now with the future. Its very difficult to gel a team the right way when half of the matchday squad is not even here a year. Meireles came in and hit the ground running, its difficult to find, look around the league and there arent many other examples of it.

While im at it, there another thing that become apparent in the last few months. Cant remember where i read it but it was a good analogy. 'Ian Ayre is no consigliere in a time of war', absolute epic fail he has been in clubs affairs since October. Great commercial director, maybe he should have stayed there.

Mr Alan

Not having 1 of Meireles & Aquilani in the squad this season was a mistake.

It only made any sense if Gerrard stayed fit all season which was never likely.

Gamble that didn't pay off at all.

K-9

mixednuts wrote: »

Suarez = Camolli

The journalist rumour at the time was that it very much was a Rafa signing, Kenny scouted him and kept an avid eye on him, maybe his too loyal defence at times hints at that.

I do like loyalty!

K-9

Oh , never had a Mereiles vs. Aquilani debate before.

Heart says Acqua, my type of footballer, head says Mereiles.

As for Lfc and appeal, Lfc is still ahuge club, 4th highest selling club for jerseys worldwide and that is with no PL title. Not that successful in the 90's and no trophy in 5 years. Still up there with Real, Barca and United.

Put it this way, City and Chelsea need massive success to match Lfc's appeal, Lfc need CL football and to be competitive for the top 4 in the PL.

The missing link is it's harder and harder to get players to think that way. Liverpool is name in European football like Ajax, Inter, Bayern, clubs like that, go through tough spells but recognised European wide. That counts for a lot but it needs shrewd scouting in Europe.

I don't think buying in Europe is as hard a problem as England tbh. Young and Jones ignored offers from Liverpool for a good chance of PL medals at United. While Liverpool is still big in England, it isn't as big as many like to think.

So, in short, in a funny way, we are still a huge name in Europe, just a big name in England!

Sir Gallagher

daithijjj wrote: »

Aquilani not fit enough to play tonight (shocker) but ok to get photos with Djokovic.

I dont know about you Daithi but i find posing for photographs slightly less strenuous than playing football.

~Rebel~

My ideal scenario at the start of the season would have been a midfield three of Lucas, Aquilani and Meireles. Still really gutting to not have either in the squad.

I'd love us to make an early move this summer for Pato. He's off form and off sharpness at the moment, but if we brought him in as soon as the window opened and gave him a good preseason, he could prove to be a fantastic addition at a reasonable price.

kingshankly

~Rebel~ wrote: »

My ideal scenario at the start of the season would have been a midfield three of Lucas, Aquilani and Meireles. Still really gutting to not have either in the squad.

I'd love us to make an early move this summer for Pato. He's off form and off sharpness at the moment, but if we brought him in as soon as the window opened and gave him a good preseason, he could prove to be a fantastic addition at a reasonable price.

Never really liked mierless tbh and hasn't really set the world slight since joining Chelsea, would love a fit aqualani if there is such a thing
I think Chelsea will be wary of buying from Liverpool In the future after bennayoun Torres and mierless not reaching expectations

~Rebel~

kingshankly wrote: »

Never really liked mierless tbh and hasn't really set the world slight since joining Chelsea, would love a fit aqualani if there is such a thing
I think Chelsea will be wary of buying from Liverpool In the future after bennayoun Torres and mierless not reaching expectations

The main reason i'd have liked to keep Meireles, is he looked great when linking with good dynamic players for us - first Torres, and then Suarez.

LuckyLloyd

daithijjj wrote: »

The mistake we made this season was selling Meireles, i dont care what he is up to at Chelsea, the fact remains, and i said it at the time, when we sold Meireles we went from 4/1 to about 10/1 to get 4th in my eyes and nothing has changed. We have been crying out for Meireles this year and its a black mark on our dealings as much as anyone who has been signed.

I have obviously said this numerous times on this thread. Mr. Alan will say 'oh but you can't keep players who don't want to stay' but to that I respond:

- We didn't pay the man like he was promised;
- Modric;
- At the very least he should have been told 'fine, you can go at the end of the season to someone who isn't Utd / Chelsea / Arsenal / City / Spurs /Everton';

A real cock up. Anyone could see how integral he was to our good play the second half of last season.

I don't think Aquilani was ever happy in England. The worst deal in LFC history.

Meireles would probably be available for half the price we sold him at in the summer, he's not setting the world on fire. In fact he's been quite poor in some games and average in others that I've seen this season.

Our problem has been putting the ball in the net.

Having the lowest goal per chance ratio in the league sums it up. The fcuking lowest.

I'm not sure where we are in terms of creating goal chances but I'd say we are right up there.

If we had a decent goalscorer we'd be as much as 10 points better off, I'm certain of it.