Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12-Jan 2012 onwards

Gbear

If we look at the squad for next season I think it's likely that:
Carra
Maxi
Aurelio (lol)
Kuyt

will all be gone and Bellamy and Gerrard will be on the way out.

They're going to get replaced one way or the other. If they're a mix of decent quality and youth our squad will look alot better I think.
As much as some of us, ironically, want to get past the fees paid for Downing and Carroll, I don't think Kenny will be able to. Because the money's been spent, we're going to persevere with them I fear.

What I fear the most about the Suarez situation is that he'll move on not because of the smear job done by the media, but because of the garbage he's had to endure on the football front. Our attack looks amateurish. There's no intelligence there and consistently awful decision-making.
If he gets the chance to replace David Villa at Barca or something, he'd bite their arm off, I think. Swap deal anyone (+cash, of course)?

Nuri Sahin

aaronh007 wrote: »

First time for everything I wouldn't put him on his own, but stick him alongside Huntelaar I'd think that he'd do well. He'd be back up to Suarez rather than a first teamer.

Anyway, I'd rather Barrios or Llorente :pac: Neither would be available however

Yeah, agree with you there. He'd definitely someone partnering him upfront to get the best out of him. He's a funny player is Derdyiok. At times he looks a class above in any given match, then there are times where he completely disappears. Scores some spectacular goals (scored one of the goals of the season for me earlier in the season) but still no way near enough for someone playing upfront. While I'm a tad hesitant on Huntelaar at least he has his goalscoring record to fall back on. But sure what do I know, I've been slagging of Pog for so long now and look at him in Fulham so far! :pac:

As for Barrios. I believe he's off in the summer anyway. He feels let down by the club and Klopp namely after all he had done for the club and is now simply a sub. Tbh, I do get where he is coming from as while I rate Lewandoski. He's far from the finished article. Seen fee's mentioned of around 10-17M euros. That's a great deal for any club.

Llorente, like when we talked about Martinez I just cannot for the life of me see either joining us. Would loved to be proven wrong of course!

Oh and you still won't show some love for Soldado or Cordozo :pac:

Glico Man

El LoCo Ade wrote: »

Oh and you still won't show some love for Soldado or Cordozo :pac:

He's currently a Che so there will be no love from me

And I've been a follower of Sporting for many a year so will never back a Benfica player... ever! :pac:

mike65

Where the **** do people reckon the money for all (any) of these dream players is coming from?

mike65

mike65 wrote: »

Where the **** do people reckon the money for all (any) of these dream players is coming from?

The sale of Doni.

Should pay for the new stadium as well.

Gbear

mike65 wrote: »

Where the **** do people reckon the money for all (any) of these dream players is coming from?

Presumably our massive turnover and lack of debt repayments, as well as selling players and reducing the wage bill failing that. I think that about covers it.

tibor

Haven't seen this posted here yet...

Is Liverpool's Luis Suárez simply trying to do too much on the pitch?

Liverpool's Luis Suárez is this season's most talked about player, yet so little talk has been about his football

Luis Suárez is this season's most talked about player, yet so little talk has been about his football. Suárez is a fascinating player because he has an unusual style of play – it's difficult to think of another player, past or present, to liken him to. He's a small, quick dribbler who enjoys roaming the pitch laterally, yet was also a brilliant poacher in his Ajax days. The first half of that description holds true for his 14 months at Liverpool, but he is yet to prove he has the finishing ability of old. That is crucial, considering Liverpool have the worst shot conversion rate in the league, at 9%, and have scored as few goals as Wolves, in the relegation zone.

Suárez's goal return this season is, in isolation, extremely disappointing. He's scored six goals from 21 appearances, a similar record to West Brom's Shane Long, and worse than Norwich's Steve Morison or Bolton's Ivan Klasnic. It's hardly unprecedented for a striker to arrive from the Eredivisie and be significantly less prolific in the Premier League, but Suárez is clearly no Afonso Alves or Mateja Kezman – he's not overawed by the league, he's not playing badly, he's just not scoring enough.

Six goals doesn't look much better when you consider that Suárez has 4.2 shots per game – only Wayne Rooney and Robin van Persie have more, and they've scored 18 and 25 goals respectively. But shots per game is a statistic open to interpretation and debate, and Suárez epitomises the uncertainly with which it should be viewed. Players with a high shots per game rate are generally exceptional performers – from Europe's top five leagues, first and second by that measure are Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi. The main thing this says is that they're constant threat, which is something Suárez – to a lesser extent – also offers.

Glenn Hoddle once said that Andy Cole needed six or seven chances to score one goal, which was an extremely harsh reflection on an excellent striker, especially as the criticism stuck with Cole for the rest of his career. But if, for a second, we take Hoddle's view as gospel (which is always a slightly dangerous game), was Cole's problem that he needed six or seven chances? Or that he needed six or seven chances that had been created by others? Cole wasn't simply a finisher, but he was predominantly a penalty box player. The apparent wastefulness was more obvious when it came at the end of a swerving David Beckham cross, from a lofted Paul Scholes pass or following a surging Ryan Giggs dribble. It looked as if he was letting the side down, ruining someone else's good work.

Suárez is completely different. If Cole's need for six or seven chances was worthy of criticism, Suárez's record of scoring a goal every 14.8 shots is truly terrible (with the caveat that a "shot" is not quite the same as a "chance"). If he were a pure poacher, that ratio would be worthy of a place on the bench.

Yet a decent proportion of Suárez's shots are self-created, following good movement into the channels, a quick turn and then a direct dart into the box. His shot after 40 minutes of Saturday's meeting with Arsenal was a fine example – he rolled Thomas Vermaelen, turned past Alex Song, skipped away from Bacary Sagna and then cut inside Laurent Koscielny within five seconds, to present himself with a clear sight of goal 10 yards out, having picked up the ball on the edge of the area with his back to goal. Having expended so much energy with the burst past opponents, and with his balance increasingly slipping away as he escaped past each challenge, in the end all he could manage was a tame, stabbed shot that was easily turned away by Wojciech Szczesny. How much credit do you give the player for creating the opportunity, and how much blame for squandering it? In a one-off incident it's an exceptional piece of skill. Yet when the pattern is repeated over a period of nearly 90 shots (not all in this fashion, of course), you wonder if Suárez is simply trying to do too much.

Suárez's best role is up for debate – his good form at Ajax came when moving inside from a right-sided position, then with Uruguay he excelled at the Copa América last year when used as the primary striker. Importantly, he seemed to have much more of a defined role in the side, much stricter instructions. At Liverpool his role has varied between playing up front alone, and just behind Andy Carroll. He's generally been Liverpool's best attacking player this season – though Craig Bellamy has also played well – but too much of the play is dependent upon him, and he becomes the main man responsible for both creativity and goalscoring. To do two things at once is to do neither, Publilius Syrus once wrote, and Suarez's six goals are supplemented by a single assist.

Granted, pinning him down to a more specific role would be tricky considering the woes of his team-mates. You don't want to depend on Stewart Downing for service at the moment, nor on Carroll for goals, and Suárez often seems keener to go alone than involve certain other team-mates in his play. But one man running the show can cause others problems – David Beckham famously averted a crisis against Greece in 2001, but had probably contributed to the crisis with his positionless Roy of the Rovers act for much of the game.

At heart Suárez is a goalscorer, and it is only fine margins costing him. He's hit the woodwork six times this season – as many times as he has scored. That record suggests that he's on the right track, and he can look to his opposing striker on Saturday to see how important a couple of inches can be – Robin van Persie was previously the king of hitting the woodwork, now he's the best finisher in the Premier League.

The Arsenal captain has evolved from an all-rounder who picked the ball up in deep positions, to more of a finisher. He's less involved in the play, but clearly playing the most effective football of his career. He received the ball less than half as often as Suárez on Saturday – but twice he got the ball in the box, and both chances were converted with a one-touch finish.

Potency up front was the only difference between the sides at Anfield on Saturday. It's not that Liverpool don't have their Van Persie figure, they're just yet to bring out his full potential.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/mar/05/liverpool-luis-suarez?CMP=twt_gu

Blatter

Chucky the tree wrote: »

To win/compete for a title we need all of this, to make a decent fist of 4th I think another striker is all we need. I don't think it has to be a poacher though, even another Suarez type player who'll at least take the attention of him would be a huge start. If you play Liverpool at the moment every teams knows that Suarez if really the only man to worry about so he'll be marked a lot tighter and have more players sticking close to him, that's bound to create extra space so if we had a player like that then Suarez himself would have more space and most likely get more goals.

This season, I agree with you. A quality striker would have had you at least close to 4th. However next season I don't expect Chelsea to be so sh*t, and I'm not sure what will happen with Spurs or Arsenal so it's harder to forecast. I'd personally expect City, United and Chelsea to make the top 4 next season. I don't think Chelsea need as much surgery as what people think, just a good manager that's able to handle the players. They'll probably strengthen quite a bit in the Summer anyway.

If I'm right on that, then I think Liverpool will probably need more than just a striker to have a good chance of a top 4 finish as there'll be only one slot available.

I was listing out what I think needs to be done to pretty much safeguard a top 4 finish, rather than be able to just about scrap for one.

Glico Man

rarnes1 wrote: »

The sale of Doni.

Should pay for the new stadium as well.

Think of all the bonuses we've saved on him so far. Think he has a £100 million first appearance clause :pac:

Dublin_Gunner

mike65 wrote: »

Where the **** do people reckon the money for all (any) of these dream players is coming from?

Just a hunch - the owners?

Considering they haven't really put their hands in their pockets yet, I reckon they really should spend a little this summer.

J. Marston

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Let's just say, if we were offered 50million for him...would you let him go for that? I don't think that would be bad business

argosy2006 wrote: »

Anyone looking for Kenny's head is just crazy!
We will look back at this season and think 6 more goals and we have a champions league spot, Its been a very unlucky season, Yet to hit a good run, Never won 3 on the bounce ,
If we do hit a good run of 5 wins 4th still possible
Our squad is strong, But who do we get rid on in the summer/
Spearing
Kuyt
out

In
Cavani
Alonso

Game on

Really? Or am I missing a ''whoosh''.

Kess73

Gbear wrote: »

Presumably our massive turnover and lack of debt repayments, as well as selling players and reducing the wage bill failing that. I think that about covers it.

Plus the Warrior deal kicks in from this summer.

Nuri Sahin

aaronh007 wrote: »

He's currently a Che so there will be no love from me

And I've been a follower of Sporting for many a year so will never back a Benfica player... ever! :pac:

Didn't know that. Any thoughts of Van Wolfswinkel? Linked to him before during Woy's time in charge if I'm not mistaken.

Don't know how much Portugese football you've watched this season but Lima for Braga has come on leaps and bounds since I first saw him. He looked very decent in the first leg vs Arsenal last year I vividly remember. Kept an eye on him ever since. Top goalscorer this season along with Cordozo in the league.

Jesus Wept

Knex. wrote: »

Interesting article that sums it all up for us in the League this year.



http://www.eplindex.com/11007/liverpool-dominate-match-fail-win-usual.html

Obviously we are missing Lucas and he is a key player for us, getting him back/not losing him would have made a big difference. However, we need to get ourselves into a position where losing one midfielder doesn't cost us as dearly as it has.

daithijjj

Sappy404 wrote: »

So do we sign a striker or change the midfield again? Kuyt, Suarez, & Maxi did well last year, and Bellamy has been excellent, so is it just the case that Adam and Downing aren't doing enough? Or would a centre-forward be the answer?

Sorry, had some things to do.

We need central midfielders who get into the box to support the strikers. We need to decide how the team is going to play, its too difficult to play a 'big man small man' combo when nobody is sure if its going to be intricate play or crossing it for the head of Carroll.

In my opinion, Suarez needs a Lineker/Rush type to play off, him and Carroll do not work. Similarly, if Carroll is going to play there we need midfielders swarming around him when he wins the flick ons. The only time i recall Suarez and Carroll rapport being decent was the game at West Brom, when West Brom were a disgrace that day to be honest. Whats interesting with Carroll for me, is that if you look at him from his time with Newcastle he was far more speedy and flexible, in comparison to today's Carroll where he looks like he cant run. Either he is not fit or his training is not helping him, i dont know if its muscle bulk or what, too much weights slows players down imho, it slowed Insua down markedly imo. One worrying thing for me was the CC final when he nodded it to Suarez on the edge of the box, Suarez picked up the flick, beat a player, got in towards the endline and had to shoot from a poor angle as Carroll was ball watching and still on the edge of the box, he should have been busting a gut and made no effort at all.

Dublin_Gunner

The-Rigger wrote: »

Obviously we are missing Lucas and he is a key player for us, getting him back/not losing him would have made a big difference. However, we need to get ourselves into a position where losing one midfielder doesn't cost us as dearly as it has.

While Lucas is obviously a loss, its not the defensive part of our game that's been at fault for our current position.

Lucas wasn't going to get us another 15-20 goals the past couple of months, now was he?

Cartman78

mike65 wrote: »

Where the **** do people reckon the money for all (any) of these dream players is coming from?

It's all part of Rafa's masterplan......he'll get the Chelsea job in the summer, convince Abramovich that Carroll, Downing and Adam would be bargains at £25 million each, with Sturridge and Lukaku moving to Anfield as part of the deal.

Rafa then gets sacked before Christmas, takes over from Kenny at Anfield, and buys Cavani, Hazard, Alonso etc.

Dcully

Apologies if this was posted already.


Arteta says 'thanks' to LFC

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/arteta-says-thanks-to-lfc

Fair play.
Apparently hes great friends with Xabi Alonso, any friend of Xabis has got to be a decent bloke

Jesus Wept

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

While Lucas is obviously a loss, its not the defensive part of our game that's been at fault for our current position.

Lucas wasn't going to get us another 15-20 goals the past couple of months, now was he?

Hardly the point. He may have broken up one or both of the plays from which Arsenal scored both their goals, who is to say. Our results with Lucas in the team are much stronger than without him in the team, I believe.

Dublin_Gunner

The-Rigger wrote: »

Hardly the point. He may have broken up one or both of the plays from which Arsenal scored both their goals, who is to say. Our results with Lucas in the team are much stronger than without him in the team, I believe.

Meh.

Its exactly the point. Conceding goals has not been a problem for Liverpool.

Anything you can state about his impact on Saturday is mere hypothesising. Whereas I can state for a fact conceding goals has not been the issue, scoring has been.

I counter your Lucas hypothesis with a hypothesis of my own. If Torres was playing up top along side Suarez, we may have won 5-2.

There ya go.

OwaynOTT

rarnes1 wrote: »

The sale of Doni.

Should pay for the new stadium as well.

Ah lads some things are just too taboo to joke about. Even mentioning the sale of Doni is sacrilegious.

Leiva

I wonder how Dub got on today with Rafa .

Rafa was just on SSN outside Trinity getting asked about the Chelsea job in about fifteen roundabout ways .

niallo27

Interview with Rafa on matt cooper show after half 6 today, i think it was recorded from today.

Jesus Wept

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Meh.

Its exactly the point. Conceding goals has not been a problem for Liverpool.

Anything you can state about his impact on Saturday is mere hypothesising. Whereas I can state for a fact conceding goals has not been the issue, scoring has been.

I counter your Lucas hypothesis with a hypothesis of my own. If Torres was playing up top along side Suarez, we may have won 5-2.

There ya go.

Are you having a bad day?

If we had conceded zero goals on Saturday or since Lucas got injured then you would have a point, we haven't and you don't.

Gbear

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Meh.

Its exactly the point. Conceding goals has not been a problem for Liverpool.

Anything you can state about his impact on Saturday is mere hypothesising. Whereas I can state for a fact conceding goals has not been the issue, scoring has been.

I counter your Lucas hypothesis with a hypothesis of my own. If Torres was playing up top along side Suarez, we may have won 5-2.

There ya go.

Looking at a defensive midfielder as only being responsible for defence is hopelessly simplistic.

He does more than stop others scoring, he starts off most of our attacks when he's fit.

Another interesting stat is that we've picked up 0.5 pts per game less without him.

Chucky the tree

Not sure how conceding goals hasn't been a problem. Before Lucas' injury we only conceded 1 goal once, that was away at Spurs when we shipped 4. Since he's been injured it's happened 4 times in the same number of games.

Glico Man

El LoCo Ade wrote: »

Didn't know that. Any thoughts of Van Wolfswinkel? Linked to him before during Woy's time in charge if I'm not mistaken.

Don't know how much Portugese football you've watched this season but Lima for Braga has come on leaps and bounds since I first saw him. He looked very decent in the first leg vs Arsenal last year I vividly remember. Kept an eye on him ever since. Top goalscorer this season along with Cordozo in the league.

Yeah I've been watching them on/off for about 6/7 years at this stage. All started because of a family holiday to Lisbon, had a tour of the Alvalade. Class stadium. Unwittingly, at the time, I walked past a young Miguel Veloso. Had a similar hairstyle back then

On Ricky van, he's a very talented striker. Tricky and small, he's great balance and is tough to knock him out of stride. Excellent finisher and very tidy. Would love to see him succeed and eventually move on. Sporting is a selling club after all. Think the link to us during Roy's time was that he was another that KK had been tracking in Holland under Rafa.

Another that I like watching is Matias Fernandez, who I'm surprised is still there. Fantastic link player who has a great range of passing and is always aware of what is around him. Is probably too slight to play in the EPL though. A move back to Spain for him methinks. They've a serious attacking team this year with Diego Capel, Jeffren, Fernandez and RvW. Just a pity that Porto, even when they sell, are rarely weakened.

Haven't seen much of Braga this year but Lima is in good form. Bit of a nomad though, watched him a small small bit during his brief stint at Belenenses and was decent. Heard at the time that he'd been at something like 9 different clubs :eek:

Dublin_Gunner

The-Rigger wrote: »

Are you having a bad day?

If we had conceded zero goals on Saturday or since Lucas got injured then you would have a point, we haven't and you don't.

Gbear wrote: »

Looking at a defensive midfielder as only being responsible for defence is hopelessly simplistic.

He does more than stop others scoring, he starts off most of our attacks when he's fit.

Another interesting stat is that we've picked up 0.5 pts per game less without him.

Not having a bad day at all.

But considering we've been creating PLENTY of chances without Lucas, and still haven't been conceding that many goals, I'd say defensive midfield is the least of our worries at the moment.

Lucas is a good player, and he's missed, but to think having him on the pitch may have turned a lot of draws / defeats into wins is quite frankly absurd.

We haven't been converting chances - that is 99% of our problems right there.

Jesus Wept

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Not having a bad day at all.

But considering we've been creating PLENTY of chances without Lucas, and still haven't been conceding that many goals, I'd say defensive midfield is the least of our worries at the moment.

Lucas is a good player, and he's missed, but to think having him on the pitch may have turned a lot of draws / defeats into wins is quite frankly absurd.

We haven't been converting chances - that is 99% of our problems right there.

I guess the post I quoted containing the article made two points, one that we need to get Lucas back and the other that we need a striker to start banging them in.

My comment was that while we need to get Lucas back, we need better cover than I believe we currently have for him.

The other point I didn't comment on because it is obvious that we need to start converting chances and there isn't much else I had to say about that element.

Nuri Sahin

aaronh007 wrote: »

Yeah I've been watching them on/off for about 6/7 years at this stage. All started because of a family holiday to Lisbon, had a tour of the Alvalade. Class stadium. Unwittingly, at the time, I walked past a young Miguel Veloso. Had a similar hairstyle back then

On Ricky van, he's a very talented striker. Tricky and small, he's great balance and is tough to knock him out of stride. Excellent finisher and very tidy. Would love to see him succeed and eventually move on. Sporting is a selling club after all. Think the link to us during Roy's time was that he was another that KK had been tracking in Holland under Rafa.

Another that I like watching is Matias Fernandez, who I'm surprised is still there. Fantastic link player who has a great range of passing and is always aware of what is around him. Is probably too slight to play in the EPL though. A move back to Spain for him methinks. They've a serious attacking team this year with Diego Capel, Jeffren, Fernandez and RvW. Just a pity that Porto, even when they sell, are rarely weakened.

Haven't seen much of Braga this year but Lima is in good form. Bit of a nomad though, watched him a small small bit during his brief stint at Belenenses and was decent. Heard at the time that he'd been at something like 9 different clubs :eek:

Had a glance at good ol trustworthy Wikipedia there. You're right, he's been all over the shop namely in Brazil. Thought he was much younger than 28 too. His goal record this season aside isn't as good as I thought it'd be too.

As for Hernandez, I had really high hopes for him when at Villarreal. Looked a cracking little player there and for the national side, no idea what happened to him with him in Spain though as I thought he was highly rated.

mike65

Anyone watch Anderlecht for Matías Suárez, who has been linked in a probably quite tenuous fashion.

Jesus Wept

His goal scoring record for Anderlecht isn't even overly inspiring.

Kess73

mike65 wrote: »

Anyone watch Anderlecht for Matías Suárez, who has been linked in a probably quite tenuous fashion.

He has been linked a number of times since last summer. He is not an out and out striker. More of a support striker/wide forward style of player who gets used as a winger.

He is having a decent season in Belgium this year but nothing outstanding tbh. Would have doubts if he would even be good enough to be a back up striker for a top six or seven club let alone a top four club.

Nuri Sahin

mike65 wrote: »

Anyone watch Anderlecht for Matías Suárez, who has been linked in a probably quite tenuous fashion.

Bits here and there due to betting. Wouldn't say I've seen enough of him to really make a full judgement. From the little I have read and seen, he does share some similarities to our Suarez besides name in play style. As Rigger pointed out, his goalscoring record isn't the best but he's played as a winger for most his career up until this season.

argosy2006

Lets buy 4 average players for a total cost of more than two world class players,
Our squad is so strong, I say we are in position now to add 2 world class player per season,
30 million euro each,

Glico Man

argosy2006 wrote: »

Lets buy 4 average players for a total cost of more than two world class players,
Our squad is so strong, I say we are in position now to add 2 world class player per season,
30 million euro each,

Where the feck are we gonna get €60 million from? I'm all for dreaming about world class signings and all but... have you been drinking?

Leiva

Just like before the January window folk are expecting big signings in the summer which just ain't gonna happen .

The owners spent big to rebuild which is not going to be the norm .

I'm just hoping with all the commercial activities over the past six months that we have a big flurry on a marquee striker .

I know we need more than that when it comes to the overall squad , but I would rather one WC player than say two or three Fletchers **cough Adam type signings .

Gbear

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Lucas is a good player, and he's missed, but to think having him on the pitch may have turned a lot of draws / defeats into wins is quite frankly absurd.

The fact of the matter is that without Lucas we've scored less, conceded more and picked up fewer points.

spockety

mixednuts wrote: »

The owners sold big to rebuild which is not going to be the norm .



.

Fyp.

koppy

i think we need

a central defender thats ready to play..for cover for agger/skertel.
wingers for both sides that can cross a decent ball.
a proven striker that will hit 20 +m a yr.
cover for lucas.

think we need to sort out what saurez is..is he a striker..a provider..winger type attacker. at the minute he not doing any of the above. i dont think were strong enough to have a player in that does not do much but look good on the ball. not saying get rid of him but just think we need to find out how to get the best out of him

Dublin_Gunner

Gbear wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that without Lucas we've scored less, conceded more and picked up fewer points.

I could probably come up with a similar statistic for when Maxi plays or not.

greendom

mike65 wrote: »

Where the **** do people reckon the money for all (any) of these dream players is coming from?

It's the new Liverpool way. Fund for new purchases by getting rid of the old dross. Replace with new dross so it can be repeated in a year's time. I'm not sure the getting rid of a major player for top dollar because you but no one else realise he's past it is going to work again though. Reina perhaps ? It's not going to work with Carroll, that's for sure

murpho999

Not sure if true, but read on a Manc friends FB today that today is the 8000th day since LFC won the league....made me sad!:mad:

It's been far too long and no end in sight!

Leiva

spockety wrote: »

Fyp.

Look I understand that but a spend is a spend .

They sold assets their assets they purchased during buying the club.

They had every right to not respend the income from sales , but then run the risk of the UFFP rules , or even be accused of asset stripping . I wish in some instances they did put the brakes on and hold onto the cash for a later transfer window .

But look the money is spent (no matter how generated) and we still find ourselves with massive squad short comings .

I just can't see £100mil being made available again , so if there is circa £25mil available then let's go for WC , or as close to , as we can get .

No more relagation Championship bound stars please .

djPSB

daithijjj wrote: »

Sorry, had some things to do.

We need central midfielders who get into the box to support the strikers. We need to decide how the team is going to play, its too difficult to play a 'big man small man' combo when nobody is sure if its going to be intricate play or crossing it for the head of Carroll.

In my opinion, Suarez needs a Lineker/Rush type to play off, him and Carroll do not work. Similarly, if Carroll is going to play there we need midfielders swarming around him when he wins the flick ons. The only time i recall Suarez and Carroll rapport being decent was the game at West Brom, when West Brom were a disgrace that day to be honest. Whats interesting with Carroll for me, is that if you look at him from his time with Newcastle he was far more speedy and flexible, in comparison to today's Carroll where he looks like he cant run. Either he is not fit or his training is not helping him, i dont know if its muscle bulk or what, too much weights slows players down imho, it slowed Insua down markedly imo. One worrying thing for me was the CC final when he nodded it to Suarez on the edge of the box, Suarez picked up the flick, beat a player, got in towards the endline and had to shoot from a poor angle as Carroll was ball watching and still on the edge of the box, he should have been busting a gut and made no effort at all.

We haven't even given the 'big man, small man' partnership a chance to work. They haven't played enough games together to deem it successful or unsuccessful.

On too many occasions, we see either Suarez or Carroll playing up front on their own in total isolation. Even the best striker in the world wouldn't thrive on such a system.

The whole system needs to be rejigged. In fairness to Kenny, injuries have played a major part. Alot of it comes down to central midfield which is the engine room of the team. And anything that's being powered by Jay Spearing and Charlie Adam is going to suffer more often than not.

djPSB

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

While Lucas is obviously a loss, its not the defensive part of our game that's been at fault for our current position.

Lucas wasn't going to get us another 15-20 goals the past couple of months, now was he?

No he wouldn't.

But if Lucas was fit, it would allow us to play a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 formation which would leads to more players being committed forward.

Leiva

djPSB wrote: »

We haven't even given the 'big man, small man' partnership a chance to work. They haven't played enough games together to deem it successful or unsuccessful.

On too many occasions, we see either Suarez or Carroll playing up front on their own in total isolation. Even the best striker in the world wouldn't thrive on such a system.

The whole system needs to be rejigged. In fairness to Kenny, injuries have played a major part. Alot of it comes down to central midfield which is the engine room of the team. And anything that's being powered by Jay Spearing and Charlie Adam is going to suffer more often than not.

Honestly i just dont see Carroll fitting in anywhere - be it with current players or prospective future singings .

I have seen enough of what he has on offer and frankly it's not that impressive.

I'm starting to think Kenny realises this aswell .

ASOT

Anyone manage to get in to see rafa today ??

djPSB

mixednuts wrote: »

Honestly i just dont see Carroll fitting in anywhere - be it with current players or prospective future singings .

I have seen enough of what he has on offer and frankly it's not that impressive.

I'm starting to think Kenny realises this aswell .

I'm not going to get into the Carroll debate again.

I'd hang onto him. Anytime he has played since Christmas he has met my expectations. He's not a world class striker and never will be. It depends what you expect from him.

Plus we'd only get 10-12m for him. It's about adding to what we have. I don't see any reason why bringing in another striker would mean Carroll would have to leave.

Dublin_Gunner

djPSB wrote: »

I'm not going to get into the Carroll debate again.

I'd hang onto him. Anytime he has played since Christmas he has met my expectations. He's not a world class striker and never will be. It depends what you expect from him.

Plus we'd only get 10-12m for him. It's about adding to what we have. I don't see any reason why bringing in another striker would mean Carroll would have to leave.

Maybe my expectations are a little high, I really expected him to score some more goals