Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12-Jan 2012 onwards

~Rebel~

Been thinking of what we need and who might be suitable.

Assuming we won't have a huge amount of money, and the likes of Lavezzi and Cavani won't be available, I think there are still a few bargains out there.

I think we need:
1 x CM
2 players who can play in the 3 behind the striker.
1 x Striker - mobile, who can play and rotate with the 3 behind them.

For the CM, I'd love us to make a cheeky bid for Sahin. He moved to Real last season for half nothing because it's the only place he wanted to go, but he's barely played. He came back from a serious knee injury 5 months ago, but only ever really finds himself an unused substitute, and that an incredibly tough midfield to break into. By now, i'd imagine he's questioning his decision to join a club with one of the very best, and most versatile, midfields in the world. Essentially, I think there might be an oppertunity to pull a "reverse Aquilani" - they got him fit, we could reap the rewards where other clubs may be wary. Him beside Lucas would be amazing imo.

For the guys behind the striker, we've already shown interest in Isla at Udinese, who would be an interesting one. Another Udinese guy I think we could get a great deal on is Armero. Quite like Bastos, can play at LB, WB or LW. Lighting quick, good close control, and knows when to pass (2nd highest assist rate in Serie A, despite playing a lot at LB). He could score more goals, but he does have a traction engine for a left foot. Pretty 1 footed though.
I still maintain Krasic is well worth a punt too. His value has dropped in Italy, but I think the English game would suit him a lot better anyway. A definite risk, but the type of risk that's worth taking when you can't afford certainties.
Another is Kagawa, still only 22, and been amazing at Dortmund for a few years. Scores goals and scares defenders. Though he might already be tough to bring in.

For up front, I'd love to see us make a move for Pato. Obviously the likes of Higuain and Cavani would be way ahead of him on the wishlist, but I think he'd be affordable, and he'll never be as cheap as he is right now. Very much a confidence guy, and having the likes of Ibra, Cassano and Robinho, as well as a just-purchased Maxi Lopez, mean he'll probably not get the chance at AC to rebuild his confidence. I could see him working very well with the likes of Suarez and the other dynamic attackers that I hope we bring in.

I just really hope we don't see another few "known quantities" coming in, overpriced, and overhyped. Just a bit of cuteness in the market could see us do very well. It's not like the guys Newcastle have brought in were mysterious strangers - Jen Chang raved about each and every one of them before they joined saying they were excellent choices. He said the same about Sessegnon just before he joined Sunderland (he called him a superior, less temperamental N'Zogbia - spot on!). So if he is seemingly aware of what players would and wouldn't be a good fit for the premiership, why aren't our scouts? To be honest, if I were involved with the club, I'd make him a consultant. Extremely knowledgable and a great judge of how players will fit into a new club/league.

ASOT

The-Rigger wrote: »

I was having a read of the BBC gossip page and we are linked with a player called Jackson Martínez.

I checked wikipedia and found this:



Sounds good.

Hes good on football manager, So as the rule goes ....

sh__93

We need a goal scorer obviously. What do people think of Seydou Doumbia?

He's scored 30+ goals for Moscow this year. I'll be honest, i've only seen Moscow play 3 or 4 times this year so can't really judge him too much but someone with a better knowledge of the Russian league might know more.

Not sure how much he would cost either.

But i'd guess it'd be less than most of the people we're linked with and we'd have a much greater chance of getting him than the likes of Cavani imho.
Thoughts?

Edit: ok i know not to judge a player on a YouTube video but this is just for anyone who deosn't know who he is.

Also, he's 24.

~Rebel~

sh__93 wrote: »

We need a goal scorer obviously. What do people think of Seydou Doumbia?

He's scored 30+ goals for Moscow this year. I'll be honest, i've only seen Moscow play 3 or 4 times this year so can't really judge him too much but someone with a better knowledge of the Russian league might know more.

Not sure how much he would cost either.

But i'd guess it'd be less than most of the people we're linked with and we'd have a much greater chance of getting him than the likes of Cavani imho.
Thoughts?

Edit: ok i know not to judge a player on a YouTube video but this is just for anyone who deosn't know who he is.

Also, he's 24.

Good shout if we could get him for a decent price.

doc_17

Henderson and Downing are not top 4 standard.

homolumo

I think trying to categorise players as top 4 standard is pointless. United have many players that I do not rate yet they are fighting for the title. We should be more concerned with whether they are good enough for Liverpool and hoping that whoever is in charge can make the players into a stronger, better performing team.

kingshankly

I still believe we're not too far away but we need more competition for places I'd say mierless regrets his Chelsea move its a pity we didn't hold on to him .
It's unfortunate our signing haven't worked out but there's still time.
If you run the clock back 18 months or so our problems were alway breaking teams down and scoring so we should buy a goal scorer hence andy Carroll
now we need to buy a proven premiership winger who's an excellent crosser hence downing .
Now for a creative midfielder who will address our problems on corners and set pieces hence Charlie Adam.
Throw in an excellent full back and a very young an promising midfielder plus Craig Bellamy on a free now were laughing premiership here we come .
But as we know things haven't worked our well I can't blame kenny for his signing because I would have snapped them all up (well maybe not Carroll at the price)And was excited an the prospect of seeing them play.
These players need to take responsibility for their poor form and work hard to turn around and maybe with one or two quality additions we won't be far off, but I doubt it will under the guidance of kenny I'd say it's a matter of time before rafa returns to finish the job

Gbear

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Meireles was never on 90k, supposedly one of the reasons he left, he was on low wages. I very much doubt Poulsen was on that as well. Secondly I'm pretty sure we are still paying a decent chunk of wages for Cole and Aquilani. Thirdly, does it factor in our current signings and new contracts? Lucas, Spearing and Jonhson have all gotten new deals, possibly more players.

People can foible over individual numbers - I was doing back of a knapkin calculations to give you an idea.

The headline and what the club said was 30m. It's not hard to believe that based on the ball park figures I was talking about.

I was doing a reasonableness test - no more.


Edit:
With regards to Spearing, according to wikipedia he's played 8 league games this season and has probably done well in all of them, if the rest of our midfield was up to scratch he'd be a brilliant replacement for Lucas.
Henderson isn't ready, Gerrard is looking alot like over the hill at the moment and Adam is a liability.

Rekop dog

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Been thinking of what we need and who might be suitable.

Assuming we won't have a huge amount of money, and the likes of Lavezzi and Cavani won't be available, I think there are still a few bargains out there.

I think we need:
1 x CM
2 players who can play in the 3 behind the striker.
1 x Striker - mobile, who can play and rotate with the 3 behind them.

For the CM, I'd love us to make a cheeky bid for Sahin. He moved to Real last season for half nothing because it's the only place he wanted to go, but he's barely played. He came back from a serious knee injury 5 months ago, but only ever really finds himself an unused substitute, and that an incredibly tough midfield to break into. By now, i'd imagine he's questioning his decision to join a club with one of the very best, and most versatile, midfields in the world. Essentially, I think there might be an oppertunity to pull a "reverse Aquilani" - they got him fit, we could reap the rewards where other clubs may be wary. Him beside Lucas would be amazing imo.

For the guys behind the striker, we've already shown interest in Isla at Udinese, who would be an interesting one. Another Udinese guy I think we could get a great deal on is Armero. Quite like Bastos, can play at LB, WB or LW. Lighting quick, good close control, and knows when to pass (2nd highest assist rate in Serie A, despite playing a lot at LB). He could score more goals, but he does have a traction engine for a left foot. Pretty 1 footed though.
I still maintain Krasic is well worth a punt too. His value has dropped in Italy, but I think the English game would suit him a lot better anyway. A definite risk, but the type of risk that's worth taking when you can't afford certainties.
Another is Kagawa, still only 22, and been amazing at Dortmund for a few years. Scores goals and scares defenders. Though he might already be tough to bring in.

For up front, I'd love to see us make a move for Pato. Obviously the likes of Higuain and Cavani would be way ahead of him on the wishlist, but I think he'd be affordable, and he'll never be as cheap as he is right now. Very much a confidence guy, and having the likes of Ibra, Cassano and Robinho, as well as a just-purchased Maxi Lopez, mean he'll probably not get the chance at AC to rebuild his confidence. I could see him working very well with the likes of Suarez and the other dynamic attackers that I hope we bring in.

.

Pato affordable?? PSG were going to pay €35 million+ in January. They're still interested and he'd easily hold down double the wages Liverpool would offer elsewhere, at team who will be in the champions league. Aside from all that he's had ongoing muscle injuries for the last 3 years which have seriously limited his game time and for a player who relies a lot on pace they will hugely affect his future performances.

Serious amount of delusional transfer targets being banded about itt, like fantasy world stuff. Isla is realistic and would be an big improvement to the team though.

Lads,

I already posted this in the tickets thread but alot of people don't venture in there.

Have a ticket for the Everton game on March 13th. Can't get the time off work. Anyone intrested let me know. Face value of course.

Nuri Sahin

sh__93 wrote: »

We need a goal scorer obviously. What do people think of Seydou Doumbia?

He's scored 30+ goals for Moscow this year. I'll be honest, i've only seen Moscow play 3 or 4 times this year so can't really judge him too much but someone with a better knowledge of the Russian league might know more.

Not sure how much he would cost either.

But i'd guess it'd be less than most of the people we're linked with and we'd have a much greater chance of getting him than the likes of Cavani imho.
Thoughts?

Edit: ok i know not to judge a player on a YouTube video but this is just for anyone who deosn't know who he is.

Also, he's 24.

I've mentioned his name in the past on here. Seen quite a bit of him outside of the CL 5pm KO's they have to play as well, again mainly down to having money on CSKA/him scoring. Modern day striker is how I'd sum him up. He's a finisher, but has a bit of everything in his game. Vision, awareness, pace and skill.

Reckon he'd go for around £20M give or take either side of that figure, however it's quite difficult putting a price on Russian league players due a number of factors. Fairly sure he has his heart set on a move to the EPL too.

~Rebel~

Rekop dog wrote: »

Pato affordable?? PSG were going to pay €35 million+ in January.

Thats the price if PSG are still interested. If they buy someone else, then it immediately drops, probably in half, or even less. As you said, he's coming off the back of injuries and confidence problems, so the market for him will be smaller than you think. I couldn't see any major clubs offering the wages you suggest once you take the likes of PSG, Chelsea and Man City out of the equation (and I think those clubs will end up going for guys who have played and scored more in the past year).

I'm not saying he WILL be a bargain - I'm saying he might prove to be one. It all depends on who comes in, but I think there have been enough issues to make huge clubs wary enough that we might have a chance.

"Delusional" is a bit ott.

Dublin_Gunner

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Thats the price if PSG are still interested. If they buy someone else, then it immediately drops, probably in half, or even less. As you said, he's coming off the back of injuries and confidence problems, so the market for him will be smaller than you think. I couldn't see any major clubs offering the wages you suggest once you take the likes of PSG, Chelsea and Man City out of the equation (and I think those clubs will end up going for guys who have played and scored more in the past year).

I'm not saying he WILL be a bargain - I'm saying he might prove to be one. It all depends on who comes in, but I think there have been enough issues to make huge clubs wary enough that we might have a chance.

"Delusional" is a bit ott.

As good a player as Pato can be, I really don't want to see us splash any more money on another possible sick-note.

Morzadec

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

As good a player as Pato can be, I really don't want to see us splash any more money on another possible sick-note.

Questionable attitude too.

Soldado would be my choice if possible. Valencia are a selling club even if they will be in the CL. I'm not sure if other clubs would be sniffing around but he's a bit more realistic than Cavani who would be the dream option, but unfortunately I don't think we have much chance of signing

5live

doc_17 wrote: »

Henderson and Downing are not top 4 standard.

Neither was Lucas 2 years ago;)

Gbear

Morzadec wrote: »

Questionable attitude too.

Soldado would be my choice if possible. Valencia are a selling club even if they will be in the CL. I'm not sure if other clubs would be sniffing around but he's a bit more realistic than Cavani who would be the dream option, but unfortunately I don't think we have much chance of signing

We'd want to be very silly if we're not considering him.
20 goals in 29 games this season.
A carreer average of 1 in 2. 26. He knows where the net is and has good all round play. He'd work great with Suarez I think.

mike65

It issue is not "Top 4" individuals (except the manager) its about a Top 4 squad.

Kess73

Morzadec wrote: »

Questionable attitude too.

Soldado would be my choice if possible. Valencia are a selling club even if they will be in the CL. I'm not sure if other clubs would be sniffing around but he's a bit more realistic than Cavani who would be the dream option, but unfortunately I don't think we have much chance of signing

Would imagine that the likes of Welliton would be in the same price range as Soldado and looks a far better player. Faster, way more skilled, can play anywhere across the front line and is a lethal finisher. Also the Euros this summer could see Soldado's value and profile rise even further.

Hard to tell how easy or difficult it would be to get a top player from the Russian league though.

Rekop dog

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Thats the price if PSG are still interested. If they buy someone else, then it immediately drops, probably in half, or even less. As you said, he's coming off the back of injuries and confidence problems, so the market for him will be smaller than you think. I couldn't see any major clubs offering the wages you suggest once you take the likes of PSG, Chelsea and Man City out of the equation (and I think those clubs will end up going for guys who have played and scored more in the past year).

I'm not saying he WILL be a bargain - I'm saying he might prove to be one. It all depends on who comes in, but I think there have been enough issues to make huge clubs wary enough that we might have a chance.

"Delusional" is a bit ott.

Milan won't let him go for cheap, and at the price they'd potentially sell him for he wouldn't be worth it(not that he'd want to go to Liverpool anyway) He's
not coming off the back of injuries either, he's injured and is getting injured regulary, 14 different muscle strains in the last 2 years alone.

Considering the likes of Cavani, Higuain Pato as targets is delusional full stop, no other word for it.

_blank_

mike65 wrote: »

It issue is not "Top 4" individuals (except the manager) its about a Top 4 squad.

if the majority of the individuals are not "top 4", then in all likelihood, neither will the squad be.

Leiva

Some massive mistakes made .

~Rebel~

Rekop dog wrote: »

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Thats the price if PSG are still interested. If they buy someone else, then it immediately drops, probably in half, or even less. As you said, he's coming off the back of injuries and confidence problems, so the market for him will be smaller than you think. I couldn't see any major clubs offering the wages you suggest once you take the likes of PSG, Chelsea and Man City out of the equation (and I think those clubs will end up going for guys who have played and scored more in the past year).

I'm not saying he WILL be a bargain - I'm saying he might prove to be one. It all depends on who comes in, but I think there have been enough issues to make huge clubs wary enough that we might have a chance.

"Delusional" is a bit ott.

Milan won't let him go for cheap, and at the price they'd potentially sell him for he wouldn't be worth it(not that he'd want to go to Liverpool anyway) He's
not coming off the back of injuries either, he's injured and is getting injured regulary, 14 different muscle strains in the last 2 years alone.

Considering the likes of Cavani, Higuain Pato as targets is delusional full stop, no other word for it.

Hence why I didn't consider cavani and higuain as realistic targets.

I considered Isla, Krasic and Armero as targets, with Pato and Sahin being people we might be able to do a deal on, if things went in our favour.

Pato is not fully fit, but he has played in 2 of Milans last 3 games.

On the one hand you talk about how he'd be so very expensive. On the other you talk about his incessant injury problems. As I mentioned it's possible the latter may affect the former in our favour. Hopeful, yes, delusional, not quite.

Rekop dog

What are he talking about? He returned from injury against Juve and played one half before getting injured again. That's 1 game in his last 3 and 45 minutes total.

El Inho

i might be alone in this opinion,

but alot of people are faulting Suarez's conversion rate.

to be fair on him, alot of the chances he's not converting are chances he has created from absolutely nothing.

spockety

We really are down the rabbit hole if people are not only openly courting the notion of moving Dalglish along, but also raising doubts about Suarez.

SlickRic

doubts about Kenny I understand.

but Suarez?

he's our best player, and is the only one that can create something out of thin air.

his strike rate should be better, but I've no doubt it will improve if better quality is around him consistently. anyone entertaining the notion that he's anything other than excellent has entered...

Kess73

eldwaro wrote: »

i might be alone in this opinion,

but alot of people are faulting Suarez's conversion rate.

to be fair on him, alot of the chances he's not converting are chances he has created from absolutely nothing.

I think that whilst Suarez may come in for some criticism from time to time, I doubt many would want to see him gone.

Personally I would love to see what Suarez could do in a Liverpool team that had actual quality in the attacking positions and in midfield. Right now Suarez has Gerrard, Henderson, Downing, Adam, and Carroll as his fellow attacking players more often than not, and as a result Suarez is the only real bit of attacking quality on the pitch when he is on with them.

Bellamy adds quality but his knees restrict how often he gets a run out.

Put a genuine quality striker, a genuine quality winger and a genuine quality midfielder into the mix and the same team as Suarez and I think we would see exactly what Suarez can do with quality around him.

Leiva

Kess73 wrote: »

I think that whilst Suarez may come in for some criticism from time to time, I doubt many would want to see him gone.

Personally I would love to see what Suarez could do in a Liverpool team that had actual quality in the attacking positions and in midfield. Right now Suarez has Gerrard, Henderson, Downing, Adam, and Carroll as his fellow attacking players more often than not, and as a result Suarez is the only real bit of attacking quality on the pitch when he is on with them.

Bellamy adds quality but his knees restrict how often he gets a run out.

Put a genuine quality striker, a genuine quality winger and a genuine quality midfielder into the mix and the same team as Suarez and I think we would see exactly what Suarez can do with quality around him.

I have read a couple of articles in the past week from different people that all seem to hit on the point that Suarez is trying to do too much , and i agree.

At International level he thrives with attack minded players beside or around him (Forlan , Cavani , Pereira) which unfortunately is not the type of player that we currently have.


Ohh to say we should sell him is just insane !

mike65

Carra sending out the wrong message

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/mar/06/jamie-carragher-liverpool-not-ready-retire

Leiva

mike65 wrote: »

Carra sending out the wrong message

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/mar/06/jamie-carragher-liverpool-not-ready-retire

Might be out of his hands .

Saturday was a defining moment for me .

He was really bad . I know he was immense last season against Chelsea after a long break but on Sat he was beyond bad , and really looked to be struggling .

El Inho

mike65 wrote: »

Carra sending out the wrong message

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/mar/06/jamie-carragher-liverpool-not-ready-retire

em...in what sense?

thats what i would want to hear from any player

spockety

spockety wrote: »

We really are down the rabbit hole if people are not only openly courting the notion of moving Dalglish along, but also raising doubts about Suarez.

Ridiculous.

On both counts.

Not suprising though. Fickleness and all that.

mike65

Well not from me! Coates and Wisdom are the two players that the club need to develop esp Coates of course at 7 million quid. Having Carra hang about whispering in the ear of managers is not what I want to read.

RayCon

mike65 wrote: »

Having Carra hang about whispering in the ear of managers is not what I want to read.

Thats when a strong manager is required ... ive no doubt Kenny knows how to deal with that situation.

I agree Carras time playing should be limited and it is already ffs.

In hindsight Coates might have done better on Sat. Anyway, his time will come, possibly and hopefully this week.

Jayob10

half an hour gone in the mini derby being played at Goodison, still 0-0

The reserves are doing well against a very strong Everton lineup.

Liverpool: Jones, McLaughlin, Mendy, Wisdom, Sama, Coady, Roberts, Suso, Adorjan, Sterling, Ecclestone.

The Everton side is very strong, includes Duffy, Jagielka, Rodwell, Osman, Coleman, Barkley, Velios, Anichebe, McFadden

Sterling, Suso and Adorjan looking very impressive

Anyone

How fickle some fans are. Cara has given his career to the club, and doesn't want to retire yet and he is blasted for it.

El Inho

mike65 wrote: »

Well not from me! Coates and Wisdom are the two players that the club need to develop esp Coates of course at 7 million quid. Having Carra hang about whispering in the ear of managers is not what I want to read.

see im of the opinion where having the experience of carra to talk with wisdom and coates is priceless

Jayob10

eldwaro wrote: »

see im of the opinion where having the experience of carra to talk with wisdom and coates is priceless

Carra never struck me as the helpful type for the kids, always seems intent on securing playing time for himself, just an observation

If anything i'd imagine Skrtel and Agger are excelling not only through being talented, rather not having Carra roaring in their ear for 90 minutes.

mike65

Anyone wrote: »

How fickle some fans are. Cara has given his career to the club, and doesn't want to retire yet and he is blasted for it.

Fickle? He is simply no longer good enough and therefore is a liability who is standing in the way of youth. There are no playing legends and treating him as such is part of Liverpools problems. He can be one when he retires.

eldwaro wrote: »

see im of the opinion where having the experience of carra to talk with wisdom and coates is priceless

Well I guess it depends if imparting hoofing and desperate last ditch shirt- grabbing should part of a young defenders stock in trade.

Jayob10

mike65 wrote: »

Fickle? He is simply no longer good enough and therefore is a liability who is standing in the way of youth. There are no playing legends and treating him as such is part of Liverpools problems. He can be one when he retires.



Well I guess it depends if imparting hoofing and desperate last ditch shirt- grabbing should part of a young defenders stock in trade.

very true, also Carra is extremely single minded apparently. Rather than helping the young lads come through i'd imagine he'd see them as a threat to his own status.

Dublin_Gunner

mike65 wrote: »

Carra sending out the wrong message

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/mar/06/jamie-carragher-liverpool-not-ready-retire

I don't quite know what you're getting at - did you link the wrong article or something?

Jayob10 wrote: »

Carra never struck me as the helpful type for the kids, always seems intent on securing playing time for himself, just an observation

As any player should, first and foremost.

Carra still wants to play, and still wants to try. He knows he's not first choice, but he isn't ready to give up yet. I really don't see anything wrong with anything he said - some of you seem very quick to forget the amount of work Carra has put in while wearing a Liverpool jersey over the years.

Turtyturd

Some of the Suarez criticism is ridiculous...my main criticism of him would be that he tries to take too much out of the ball and doesn't shoot enough. The penalty incident against Arsenal was a perfect example, if he hit the ball first time he would most likely score but he tried to take it around the keeper and the ball was going out for a goal kick if he wasn't quite clearly and viciously taken out of it.

Leave the talk of getting rid of him to Fergie and his ilk.

mike65

2nd half of mini derby.

http://www.firstrowsports.eu/watch/111702/1/watch-everton-res-vs-liverpool-res.html

Leiva

mike65 wrote: »

2nd half of mini derby.

http://www.firstrowsports.eu/watch/111702/1/watch-everton-res-vs-liverpool-res.html

Im telling Sean

mike65

ArG! The kids are as dopey as their betters in getting into the six yard box 18 yard area :mad:.

Leiva

mike65 wrote: »

ArG! The kids are as dopey as their betters in getting into the six yard box 18 yard area :mad:.

2 footed..lucky boy !

Jayob10

Lads Sterling is just the business

Making some senior pros look like plodders

Thats impressive even if they do play for Everton

mike65

For them not watching Everton have put out a strong side. Practically an alternative starting 11

Leiva

Camolli looking on