Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12-Jan 2012 onwards

Chucky the tree

djPSB wrote: »

I think people are being a bit unfair when they say the Carroll-Suarez partnership won't work.

They've only started two games together since the New Year. One against Brighton in which we scored six, and the other in the Cup Final where Cardiff defended like dogs.

I also don't understand why either Carroll or Suarez would have to leave this summer. Just because we sign another striker, doesn't mean that one has to leave. There's nothing wrong with having 3/4 good strikers in the squad.

The problem with keeping Carroll is that we'll still need to buy another striker to have 3 or 4 good ones. Also if we can get a decent price now(£15m) we might as well take it, he'll only get older and another year on the bench won't increase his value.

djPSB

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The problem with keeping Carroll is that we'll still need to buy another striker to have 3 or 4 good ones. Also if we can get a decent price now(£15m) we might as well take it, he'll only get older and another year on the bench won't increase his value.

Oh ya sure if we sell him and buy Cavani and Hazard we'll be sorted.

Great plan :rolleyes:

Chucky the tree

djPSB wrote: »

Oh ya sure if we sell him and buy Cavani and Hazard we'll be sorted.

Great plan :rolleyes:

If you have difficulty reading then internet forums might not be a good idea.

Leiva

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The problem with keeping Carroll is that we'll still need to buy another striker to have 3 or 4 good ones. Also if we can get a decent price now(£15m) we might as well take it, he'll only get older and another year on the bench won't increase his value.

Honestly if £15mil was ever offered for Carroll we should take the arm off them up to the elbow , but it ain't going to happen unfortunately .

Luap

Dub13 wrote: »

Lads,I am running a small competition the prize is a Liverpool jersey and a free 6 month Setanta satellite subscription,I have 3 of them to give away.The question is very easy...

If you are interested...

http://www.irishkop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20505

Just entered it there, fingers crossed.

Edit: Thanks Btw!

djPSB

Chucky the tree wrote: »

If you have difficulty reading then internet forums might not be a good idea.

I have difficulty in understanding that you do not consider Carroll a 'good striker'.

It's not like as if I called him a 'great' player or a 'world class' striker.

I don't understand why you think that Carroll would not be good enough to provide back up to Suarez and a new striker.

Chucky the tree

djPSB wrote: »

I have difficulty in understanding that you do not consider Carroll a 'good striker'.

It's not like as if I called him a 'great' player or a 'world class' striker.

I don't understand why you think that Carroll would not be good enough to provide back up to Suarez and a new striker.

Because I've watched him play. You should try it sometime.

djPSB

mixednuts wrote: »

Honestly if £15mil was ever offered for Carroll we should take the arm off them up to the elbow , but it ain't going to happen unfortunately .

How much do you think Carroll will be worth in two years time?

Morzadec

I mentioned in another post, but does anyone think it might be worth sending Carroll out on loan next year? Now obviously we would need to invest in another striker before we consider that, but loaning him would prevent his value depreciating and hopefully help develop him as a player while also perhaps putting him in the shop window.

djPSB

Okay some basic mathematics.

Supposing we had two options.

1. Sell Carroll for 15m.
2. Use Carroll as a back up striker for the next three years.

After option 1, we have a guaranteed loss after 1.5 years of 20m after buying the player for 35m.

Option 2, Worst case scenario is that Carroll's form doesn't improve over the next three years and his value falls to 10m.

So that would be a loss of 5m on what we would get at the moment.

We would be gambling 5m over a three year period on a player hitting form, on an original investment of 35m. I know what I would do if it was my money.

It is also quite likely that he might hit form.

djPSB

Morzadec wrote: »

I mentioned in another post, but does anyone think it might be worth sending Carroll out on loan next year? Now obviously we would need to invest in another striker before we consider that, but loaning him would prevent his value depreciating and hopefully help develop him as a player while also perhaps putting him in the shop window.

No, would prefer to have him on the bench offering something to the team.

I would hope we have learned something from the Aquilani loan fiascos.

Anyway Carroll hasn't been as terrible as people make out.

If he had been bought for 10m there wouldn't be an issue. It's just peeople are expecting 35m performances.

Chucky the tree

djPSB wrote: »

Okay some basic mathematics.

Supposing we had two options.

1. Sell Carroll for 15m.
2. Use Carroll as a back up striker for the next three years.

After option 1, we have a guaranteed loss after 1.5 years of 20m after buying the player for 35m.

Option 2, Worst case scenario is that Carroll's form doesn't improve over the next three years and his value falls to 10m.

So that would be a loss of 5m on what we would get at the moment.

We would be gambling 5m over a three year period on a player hitting form, on an original investment of 35m. I know what I would do if it was my money.

It is also quite likely that he might hit form.

how is it likely he might hit form? He's been here for a year and been terrible the whole time. I'd much rather option 3; Sell him and bring in a better third or fourth choice striker.

Leiva

djPSB wrote: »

How much do you think Carroll will be worth in two years time?

If he continues his current form < £6-£7 million.

Hits regular form (15-20 goals) < £10-£12 million

Morzadec wrote: »

I mentioned in another post, but does anyone think it might be worth sending Carroll out on loan next year? Now obviously we would need to invest in another striker before we consider that, but loaning him would prevent his value depreciating and hopefully help develop him as a player while also perhaps putting him in the shop window.

If he is not good enough to make the squad then we should sell him.

Leiva

Arsenal just landed Podolski for £11 million on a four year deal .

Now that's what I call a great piece of business.

tok9

Ben Smith

Reports in Germany tonight claim Lukas Podolski has agreed a £10.85m deal to join #AFC on a four-year deal

Bloody Arsenal, can they cause me any more damage!

Only able to properly type now after my weekend in Liverpool!

Only thing I have to add is that it slightly surprised me that the majority of fans gave a bit of stick to Adam. I assumed the casual supporter might still have some fate in him.

Also the atmosphere was only ok, I wasn't expecting Chelsea champions league semi finals or anything but still, thought it was a bit quite. The Arsenal fans were great though but I suppose that's always the case with away supporters.

Chucky the tree

mixednuts wrote: »

Honestly if £15mil was ever offered for Carroll we should take the arm off them up to the elbow , but it ain't going to happen unfortunately .

I agree with this, I think it's unlikely. Not many of the smaller teams spend that type of money. Could possible do a cash + player deal or just hope to make it a deal with a lot of incentives.

Turtyturd

mixednuts wrote: »

Arsenal just landed Podolski for £11 million on a four year deal .

Now that's what I call a great piece of business.

Would have liked to see him end up at Liverpool. Would have been easier for him to fill Andy Carroll's boots the Van Persie's.:pac:

djPSB

tok9 wrote: »

Ben Smith


Bloody Arsenal, can they cause me any more damage!

Only able to properly type now after my weekend in Liverpool!

Only thing I have to add is that it slightly surprised me that the majority of fans gave a bit of stick to Adam. I assumed the casual supporter might still have some fate in him.

Also the atmosphere was only ok, I wasn't expecting Chelsea champions league semi finals or anything but still, thought it was a bit quite. The Arsenal fans were great though but I suppose that's always the case with away supporters.

Couldn't believe it when Adam was actually considering taking the penalty, especially when his one from the cup final had hardly landed.

He must have a serious opinion of himself. And then his Hollywood passes. I can't understand that despite the fact that he could fack up 3/4 long passes in a row, he would still continue with the attempts. Alonso used to play some serious cross field passes but you always knew they would land in their destination. Adam had a pass completion ratio of 73% against Arsenal which is fairly pathetic.

djPSB

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I agree with this, I think it's unlikely. Not many of the smaller teams spend that type of money. Could possible do a cash + player deal or just hope to make it a deal with a lot of incentives.

So if we do sell Carroll for 15m. We still need at least another two strikers. And if Kuyt leaves that would make it three.

So what three strikers do we sign? Taking into account that about 20m or so would need to be spent on other areas of the team.

5starpool

We should offer Andy Carroll in a swap for that young up and coming player at Barcelona, Messi. He looks ok in the youth match on at the moment

kevohmsford

djPSB wrote: »

Couldn't believe it when Adam was actually considering taking the penalty, especially when his one from the cup final had hardly landed.

He must have a serious opinion of himself. And then his Hollywood passes. I can't understand that despite the fact that he could fack up 3/4 long passes in a row, he would still continue with the attempts. Alonso used to play some serious cross field passes but you always knew they would land in their destination. Adam had a pass completion ratio of 73% against Arsenal which is fairly pathetic.

Adam was doing ok playing alongside Lucas earlier in the sason but himself and Gerrard are not an ideal combination in the centre of midfield.

Chucky the tree

djPSB wrote: »

So if we do sell Carroll for 15m. We still need at least another two strikers. And if Kuyt leaves that would make it three.

So what three strikers do we sign? Taking into account that about 20m or so would need to be spent on other areas of the team.

Didn't hear Kuyt was leaving. Anyway for £15m we could buy both Fletcher from Wolves and holliet from Blackburn for around that much, and that would be two players who are an improvement on Carroll. Outside of that I'm sure if we looked abroad we'd find even better players for that kind of money.

MD1990

we have no hope of gettin Tello

mike65

Hard to judge supposed target Seydou Keita as the game was won and Leverkusen were offering nothing.

Glico Man

mike65 wrote: »

Hard to judge supposed target Seydou Keita as the game was won and Leverkusen were offering nothing.

He's a good player, completely under rated by fans other than those that watch him. Even then you'll get the odd few that wonders what he does.

Despite his size, he's not a big bruising CM. He's got great feet, primarily left footed and is excellent technically. He makes very clever runs from midfield which is something we've been lacking this season.

Plays best as a supporting CM alongside a passing midfielder but can also hold his own in the DM role as his tackling and positioning is top notch.

Glico Man

MD1990 wrote: »

we have no hope of gettin Tello

He's getting promoted to the first team on a full time basis for next season so there's no chance he'll move.

MD1990

aaronh007 wrote: »

He's getting promoted to the first team on a full time basis for next season so there's no chance he'll move.

he's already there
he been appearing regulary the last 2 months

Glico Man

MD1990 wrote: »

he's already there
he been appearing regulary the last 2 months

Appearing regularly yes, but he's registered to Barça B.

djPSB

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Didn't hear Kuyt was leaving. Anyway for £15m we could buy both Fletcher from Wolves and holliet from Blackburn for around that much, and that would be two players who are an improvement on Carroll. Outside of that I'm sure if we looked abroad we'd find even better players for that kind of money.

Suarez, Fletcher, Hoillet, Kuyt. Not much of an improvement to be honest.

Fletcher isn't much of an improvement on Carroll, if any.

Carroll scored 13 PL goals last season, Fletcher scored 10.

Carroll scored 17 in the championship the year before, Fletcher again ten in the PL. Hardly anything worth writing home about. Don't see how you think that would make much of a difference.

In fact Fletcher has never scored more than 13 goals in a league season, and that was in the SPL. Hardly going to solve our goal scoring problems.

But yes Hoillett would be a good addition on the wing.

Turtyturd

djPSB wrote: »

Suarez, Fletcher, Hoillet, Kuyt. Not much of an improvement to be honest.

Fletcher isn't much of an improvement on Carroll, if any.

Carroll scored 13 PL goals last season, Fletcher scored 10.

Carroll scored 17 in the championship the year before, Fletcher again ten in the PL. Hardly anything worth writing home about. Don't see how you think that would make much of a difference.

In fact Fletcher has never scored more than 13 goals in a league season, and that was in the SPL. Hardly going to solve our goal scoring problems.

But yes Hoillett would be a good addition on the wing.

I am not saying he is the answer but you cannot compare the two. Fletcher scored 10 goals in a club battling relegation and may score more with the amount of chances we create. Personally I think to find a player to link up with Suarez we would have to look towards the continent or South America. English players just don't seem to cut it.

Chucky the tree

djPSB wrote: »

Suarez, Fletcher, Hoillet, Kuyt. Not much of an improvement to be honest.

Fletcher isn't much of an improvement on Carroll, if any.

Carroll scored 13 PL goals last season, Fletcher scored 10.

Carroll scored 17 in the championship the year before, Fletcher again ten in the PL. Hardly anything worth writing home about. Don't see how you think that would make much of a difference.

In fact Fletcher has never scored more than 13 goals in a league season, and that was in the SPL. Hardly going to solve our goal scoring problems.

But yes Hoillett would be a good addition on the wing.

I'd rather £10m + Fletcher than Carroll though.

Kess73

Dub13 wrote: »

Lads,I am running a small competition the prize is a Liverpool jersey and a free 6 month Setanta satellite subscription,I have 3 of them to give away.The question is very easy...

If you are interested...

http://www.irishkop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20505

16
a HB pencil
James Herbert
Xenomorph



Now where is my prize?

Kess73

djPSB wrote: »

Okay some basic mathematics.

Supposing we had two options.

1. Sell Carroll for 15m.
2. Use Carroll as a back up striker for the next three years.

After option 1, we have a guaranteed loss after 1.5 years of 20m after buying the player for 35m.

Option 2, Worst case scenario is that Carroll's form doesn't improve over the next three years and his value falls to 10m.

So that would be a loss of 5m on what we would get at the moment.

We would be gambling 5m over a three year period on a player hitting form, on an original investment of 35m. I know what I would do if it was my money.

It is also quite likely that he might hit form.

Option two would mean that he has run down 4.5 years of his contract and is then in the final year of that contract, meaning he would be in a position to just dig his heels in and walk for free.

djPSB

Turtyturd wrote: »

I am not saying he is the answer but you cannot compare the two. Fletcher scored 10 goals in a club battling relegation and may score more with the amount of chances we create. Personally I think to find a player to link up with Suarez we would have to look towards the continent or South America. English players just don't seem to cut it.

Agreed, we should definitely look abroad for a Suarez strike partner. No value in the English market.

Just get annoyed when people think Fletcher would be a major improvement on Carroll. Fletcher is a poor mans Darren Bent.

Would like to see someone like Van Wolfswinckel or Soldado . An out an out pacey striker who is technically good. A young Torres I suppose. We should be looking to spend 15-20m.

Would also like to see us pick up a young striker for 4-5m. With Carroll and Suarez added to that, we would have a very decent strike force.

Sir Gallagher

Arsenal getting Podolski for that price is the cherry on top of a depressing week for a Liverpool fan.

Kess73

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Arsenal getting Podolski for that price is the cherry on top of a depressing week for a Liverpool fan.

On top of Sow going to Turkey for €12m and Shaqiri to Bayern for €8m.

Morzadec

djPSB wrote: »

Okay some basic mathematics.

Supposing we had two options.

1. Sell Carroll for 15m.
2. Use Carroll as a back up striker for the next three years.

After option 1, we have a guaranteed loss after 1.5 years of 20m after buying the player for 35m.

Option 2, Worst case scenario is that Carroll's form doesn't improve over the next three years and his value falls to 10m.

So that would be a loss of 5m on what we would get at the moment.

We would be gambling 5m over a three year period on a player hitting form, on an original investment of 35m. I know what I would do if it was my money.

It is also quite likely that he might hit form.

The problem in this case is that we keep trying to fit him into a team that he will never fit into imo. I think having Carroll around and in the team in place of another striker will damage our chances.

And if another striker comes in, then where does that leave Carroll? Sitting on the bench getting disillusioned, dropping in value... Don't forget his wages. Think they're around 80k which is a decent amount. You're talking an extra 12 million or so in wages if Carroll is kept for 3 years more.

I just think it won't work for him here. He's not good enough, he's not in the style we need, he won't get the best out of Suarez who is our real prized asset. Camolli, Daglish etc...need to call a spade a spade and have the balls to say to the owners - we f***ed up - Carroll isn't working out and won't work out.

Chucky the tree

djPSB wrote: »

Agreed, we should definitely look abroad for a Suarez strike partner. No value in the English market.

Just get annoyed when people think Fletcher would be a major improvement on Carroll. Fletcher is a poor mans Darren Bent.

Would like to see someone like Van Wolfswinckel or Soldado . An out an out pacey striker who is technically good. A young Torres I suppose. We should be looking to spend 15-20m.

Would also like to see us pick up a young striker for 4-5m. With Carroll and Suarez added to that, we would have a very decent strike force.

I don't think anyone said major improvement, I didn't anyway. I think he'd be a improvement who would also be cheaper in wages and allow for an extra £10m in funds. A much better scenario then struggling on with Carroll until his contract runs out.

djPSB

Morzadec wrote: »

The problem in this case is that we keep trying to fit him into a team that he will never fit into imo. I think having Carroll around and in the team in place of another striker will damage our chances.

And if another striker comes in, then where does that leave Carroll? Sitting on the bench getting disillusioned, dropping in value... Don't forget his wages. Think they're around 80k which is a decent amount. You're talking an extra 12 million or so in wages if Carroll is kept for 3 years more.

I just think it won't work for him here. He's not good enough, he's not in the style we need, he won't get the best out of Suarez who is our real prized asset. Camolli, Daglish etc...need to call a spade a spade and have the balls to say to the owners - we f***ed up - Carroll isn't working out and won't work out.

He might never succeed but replacing him players like Steven Fletcher is definitely not the answer. One player I would love to see up front with Suarez would be Sturridge. Hard to see Chelski letting him go, but it's not totally unlikely depending on whoever takes over next. Would definitely be worth 15-20m.

Gbear

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I don't think anyone said major improvement, I didn't anyway. I think he'd be a improvement who would also be cheaper in wages and allow for an extra £10m in funds. A much better scenario then struggling on with Carroll until his contract runs out.

Not to mention that I think the price tag forces Kenny to use him more than he really ought to. If he'd been bought as a squad player for squad player money there wouldn't be the same issue.

I see him getting in the way of us buying someone genuinely good.

Knex*

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Arsenal getting Podolski for that price is the cherry on top of a depressing week for a Liverpool fan.

You just know if it was us we'd of ended up paying 20m for him. Not that I'd complain too much as I'd love to see him in our team.

Wonder is it Liverpool not being in the CL next year with Arsenal likely to be in it that swung it in Arsenal's favour. Then again, with our transfer record, missing out on the likes of Turan, Shaqri and Sow as mentioned by Kess, we probably weren't even interested.

I know its a long way away, but I'm almost dreading the coming transfer window. Say what you want about Rafa's transfer record but I seriously doubt Carroll, Adam and Downing would be in our squad if he was in charge last summer/january.

djPSB

Gbear wrote: »

Not to mention that I think the price tag forces Kenny to use him more than he really ought to. If he'd been bought as a squad player for squad player money there wouldn't be the same issue.

I see him getting in the way of us buying someone genuinely good.

I'd just like to see Carroll and Suarez play up front together for the rest of the season and then we could say for definite whether the partnership is a disaster or not. Then we could cut our losses.

They showed glimpses that they could playe together in a few games, then they wouldn't play together again for another 5/6 games. It's hard to build a partnership with a rhythm like that.

djPSB

Knex. wrote: »

You just know if it was us we'd of ended up paying 20m for him. Not that I'd complain too much as I'd love to see him in our team.

Wonder is it Liverpool not being in the CL next year with Arsenal likely to be in it that swung it in Arsenal's favour. Then again, with our transfer record, missing out on the likes of Turan, Shaqri and Sow as mentioned by Kess, we probably weren't even interested.

I know its a long way away, but I'm almost dreading the coming transfer window. Say what you want about Rafa's transfer record but I seriously doubt Carroll, Adam and Downing would be in our squad if he was in charge last summer/january.

Rafa didn't spend big unless he knew he was getting guaranteed quality. Aquilani was a blot in his copybook but I don't hold him accountable for the transfers in the last year of his rein when H&G were gone AWOL.

Rafa and Kenny have different styles of management. Wouldn't mind seeing Rafa back one day, but Kenny deserves his chance. I think people should hold their fire on Kenny for the minute and see what he does in the summer but if we are in a similar league position this time next year, then questions would have to be asked.

Still along way from Hodgson's days and at least we know Kenny has the good of the club at heart.

djPSB

kevohmsford wrote: »

Adam was doing ok playing alongside Lucas earlier in the sason but himself and Gerrard are not an ideal combination in the centre of midfield.

Himself and Spearing are nothing special either.

Knex*

djPSB wrote: »

I'd just like to see Carroll and Suarez play up front together for the rest of the season and then we could say for definite whether the partnership is a disaster or not. Then we could cut our losses.

They showed glimpses that they could playe together in a few games, then they wouldn't play together again for another 5/6 games. It's hard to build a partnership with a rhythm like that.

What is actually most annoying about Carroll is that even though he's a "target man" he actually struggles to be the focal point of our attack.

Sure he's good for long ball, direct game, but when it comes to receiving the ball into feet and laying it off he's appalling. Add that to his seemingly lack of footballing intelligence and I can't see how it could work tbh.

He would, I feel, be better being played off the striker, or in tandem with another more out and out striker than Suarez. In a role where he can lay it into the main man before picking up the scraps that fall to him to rocket it in, as we've seen him do.

I'm explaining this horrendously as I am dog tired but hopefully you get what I'm trying to get at.

That said, I'm not Carroll's biggest critic and am happy for him to be given game time. I do feel he could come good for the club given his age and so on, its just sometimes he frustrates the hell outta.

K-9

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I said sell him if we got a massive fee. The whole reason I suggested we might sell him was because of his poor stats!!

K-9 i don't understand the reaction at all. He's only been with us for a year and has done his fair share of playacting. It's not like he's some sort of established Fowler-like legend.

If we got a circa £50 Million bid maybe, but even then, he's a player who should be here for 3/4 reasons unless we do extremely poorly in that time, we shouldn't be a club in this stage of our redevelopment to just take the money and run. Yep Torres, but the owners where just in the door and Suarez was part of the rebuilding project.

£30-35 Million, nah, and tbh and I've said it before on here, barring PSG, I don't see who'll pay it after the season he has has had, the ban and all that.

I expected 10-15 goals each from Carroll and Suarez, that would have been satisfactory to me, got criticised for that, so I amn't as critical as others. Carroll has been a huge disappointment as him fitting into the system was another part of my criteria for success.


Suarez I've been critical of but he has met my general level of expectation, been off form since the suspension and often guilty of taking the wrong option, but that's the risk you take with a naturally gifted genius like him, and I don't use that word lightly in a football context!

willmunny1990

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2111767/Glen-Johnson-Patrice-Evra-clear-didnt-want-shake-Luis-Suarezs-hand.html

What ye make of this?

Liam O

Do ye all really think you "missed out" on players like Podolski and Shaquri? They were never going to move to Liverpool with higher rated teams who will (at least probably) be playing in the CL for the foreseeable future and along with the likes of Hazard are out of Liverpool's reach. There are plenty of players who could improve Liverpool immensely that you don't have to go head to head with more attractive clubs for.

Sasquatch76

djPSB wrote: »

Rafa didn't spend big unless he knew he was getting guaranteed quality. Aquilani was a blot in his copybook but I don't hold him accountable for the transfers in the last year of his rein when H&G were gone AWOL.

Just talking about this with my dad earlier this evening. When money was tight, Rafa very often got it wrong, but when he was allowed spend big, he got it right far more often than not. I'd love to know what he'd have done in the past two windows...

Jayob10

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Arsenal getting Podolski for that price is the cherry on top of a depressing week for a Liverpool fan.

Podolski will flop in England mark my words. He is a real homebird and will be pining for Deutschland in no time.