Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12-Jan 2012 onwards

Chucky the tree

willmunny1990 wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2111767/Glen-Johnson-Patrice-Evra-clear-didnt-want-shake-Luis-Suarezs-hand.html

What ye make of this?

He's spot on but he shouldn't say it. It will just drag it back up again and I've no doubt the people and the club will give him a talking to about it.

Glico Man

Jayob10 wrote: »

Podolski will flop in England mark my words. He is a real homebird and will be pining for Deutschland in no time.

How so? His switch back from Bayern to Koln? His time at Bayern wasn't the greatest success by any stretch, but writing him off is foolish. 26 goals in 106 games where he was played predominantly on the wing isn't a bad return in all fairness.

Jayob10

aaronh007 wrote: »

How so? His switch back from Bayern to Koln? His time at Bayern wasn't the greatest success by any stretch, but writing him off is foolish. 26 goals in 106 games where he was played predominantly on the wing isn't a bad return in all fairness.

He is a talented player no doubt about it, but I don't think he is a player who will settle. And I don't just mean England, i'd have doubts he would cut it anywhere outside of Germany.

Many people in the know on German football have doubts about the lads temperment, and many will be flabbergasted at his decision to move abroad. I can only imagine Arsenal have more Germans on the way, Mario Gotze perhaps. I'm shocked at this move, heard the speculation but thought he was angling for more money. Very interesting indeed.

Podolski was homesick in Munich which is only 300 miles away from Cologne.
Putting my neck on the line, I reckon London is going to be too much for him and I give him a year or 2 max, before he is heading for Cologne again.

Glico Man

Jayob10 wrote: »

He is a talented player no doubt about it, but I don't think he is a player who will settle. And I don't just mean England, i'd have doubts he would cut it anywhere outside of Germany.

Many people in the know on German football have doubts about the lads temperment, and many will be flabbergasted at his decision to move abroad. I can only imagine Arsenal have more Germans on the way, Mario Gotze perhaps. I'm shocked at this move, heard the speculation but thought he was angling for more money. Very interesting indeed.

Podolski was homesick in Munich which is only 300 miles away from Cologne.
Putting my neck on the line, I reckon London is going to be too much for him and I give him a year or 2 max, before he is heading for Cologne again.

That's a bit of an exaggeration tbh. All we know is he didn't get on in Munich. That's the only other place he's ever been to and a lot of people hold that against him for some reason. Uli Hoeness isn't the easiest to work with and he wouldn't be the first to have trouble with him, and more than likely he won't be the last.

I think himself and RvP will strike up a deadly partnership. He'll take a while to adapt to the league like most players but when he does, he'll be lethal.

Jayob10

aaronh007 wrote: »

That's a bit of an exaggeration tbh. All we know is he didn't get on in Munich. That's the only other place he's ever been to and a lot of people hold that against him for some reason. Uli Hoeness isn't the easiest to work with and he wouldn't be the first to have trouble with him, and more than likely he won't be the last.

I think himself and RvP will strike up a deadly partnership. He'll take a while to adapt to the league like most players but when he does, he'll be lethal.

not an exaggeration at all, its a fact im afraid, he spent most of his time commuting from Cologne to Munich. he was homesick living in Bavaria FFS, thats a fact.

Of course its possible he has matured, but I think 100k per week was dangled in front of him and he accepted the back of that.

I know alot of folk in Germany and they simply cannot believe this move. Of all players to leave the country Podolski was one you would say would never flourish outside of his comfort zone.

Hes an even more extreme version of Jesus Navas who used to have cold sweats leaving Seville for away games

Yakult

How many German players are playing in the EPL right now? Mertsaker from Arsenal and?

Jayob10

Yakult wrote: »

How many German players are playing in the EPL right now? Mertsaker from Arsenal and?

Robert Huth and Gerhard Tremmel aswell.

Glico Man

Yakult wrote: »

How many German players are playing in the EPL right now? Mertsaker from Arsenal and?

Too few. Outside the Spanish league, they have the best technical players in Europe. Its high time that any team looking to progress in the EPL take a look at the Bundesliga.

Jayob10

aaronh007 wrote: »

Too few. Outside the Spanish league, they have the best technical players in Europe. Its high time that any team looking to progress in the EPL take a look at the Bundesliga.

Plenty of German players are scouted, they have an attitude similar to the English although maybe slightly more adventurous.

They don't have over ambitions to travel unless its to the very top clubs paying top dollar in wages ala Madrid.

Yakult

Jayob10 wrote: »

Robert Huth and Gerhard Tremmel aswell.

Not alot I'd take it but I've heard countless times that they are often reluctant to leave, which is a shame as they have some brilliant players. I've noticed they dont buy too many imports either, good footballing system they have and they are producing great players because of the loyalty to keep HG players.

Jayob10

Yakult wrote: »

Not alot I'd take it but I've heard countless times that they are often reluctant to leave, which is a shame as they have some brilliant players. I've noticed they dont buy too many imports either, good footballing system they have and they are producing great players because of the loyalty to keep HG players.

decent amount of South American players in Germany, work permit rules are not as tight as UK.
Good mix of experienced and emerging South American talent aswell as some superb young prospects. They have serious options right now the Germans in terms of player choice.

Yakult

I'd put money on them to win the next WC or at least set up a final with Spain. In 2010 they were a great team but with alot of young players, With some more experience/age, they will be better and the only team to put a game to Spain I think. And if those prospects work out.. Alot of European teams wont have a chance because Spain are popping them out too!

Sappy404

aaronh007 wrote: »

He's a good player, completely under rated by fans other than those that watch him. Even then you'll get the odd few that wonders what he does.

Despite his size, he's not a big bruising CM. He's got great feet, primarily left footed and is excellent technically. He makes very clever runs from midfield which is something we've been lacking this season.

Plays best as a supporting CM alongside a passing midfielder but can also hold his own in the DM role as his tackling and positioning is top notch.

He sounds a bit like Ramires at Chelsea. Is that a fair comparison?

In any case, I don't think we're going to have the money for these kinds of players. Not qualifying for the Champions League will cost us not only in the caliber of footballers we can attract, but it will also hit us hard in the pocket with regards transfer funds.

I don't think FSG are going to pump loads of money into the club for players as it would have a negative affect on our FFP status. Building a new stadium or redeveloping Anfield will not, and that's where their money will be going. Unfortunately I think transfer funds will primarily be taken from money earned by the club, and Europa League instead of Champions' League football will hit us hard.

~Rebel~

Sappy404 wrote: »

He sounds a bit like Ramires at Chelsea. Is that a fair comparison?

In any case, I don't think we're going to have the money for these kinds of players.

His 4 year contract expires this summer, though I think there's a potential extension clause, but I don't know the conditions under which it becomes activated.

I don't think he would cost a whole pile though, but he would want big wages. It's his age that concerns me. I'd prefer us to be building the core of our team around players who could give at least 5 years of top level service (particularly with the stadium costs coming soon, which will likely lead to a low-spend few years).

I wouldn't mind Keita coming, if he wasn't required to be first choice, which means we'd still need to splash out on a top level centre midfielder. I just hope the club would go for the younger chap first, then bring in Keita.

Kess73

Liam O wrote: »

Do ye all really think you "missed out" on players like Podolski and Shaquri? They were never going to move to Liverpool with higher rated teams who will (at least probably) be playing in the CL for the foreseeable future and along with the likes of Hazard are out of Liverpool's reach. There are plenty of players who could improve Liverpool immensely that you don't have to go head to head with more attractive clubs for.

I mentioned Sow and Shaqiri as examples of what level of talent can be gotten for lower prices.

Other examples of late would be

Turan €12m
Defour €6m
Toulalan €10m


In my eyes Sow and Turan were gettable as right up to when they moved both were still talking about coming to the EPL as their dream move, and Turan in particular has been very consistent for the past four years in saying the only English club he would consider joining is Liverpool.

Even if the club had to pay a bit more than those players went for, I would still be very confident that both combined would have cost maybe a little more than Downing did on his own.

In the summer of 2010 Huntelaar moved for €12m. €12m for a proven goalscorer, for a guy who scores in any country when he is given game time. Four months later Liverpool spent £35m on Carroll.


Toulalan and Defour combined cost less than Henderson.

Value for money just seems to be something Liverpool have been missing in the transfer market, I just hope to see Liverpool at least try for similar type players in the next window if they are available. Granted many may prefer to move to a CL team, but unless we bid for them we cannot know for sure.

D'Agger

Kess73 wrote: »

Value for money just seems to be something Liverpool have been missing in the transfer market, I just hope to see Liverpool at least try for similar type players in the next window if they are available. Granted many may prefer to move to a CL team, but unless we bid for them we cannot know for sure.

Was playing one of my mates last night in Fifa, playing as Belgium

Started discussing good young players and I got talking about Defour and Turan in particular being two players Liverpool missed out on big time considering who we went on to purchase.

We could discuss it all day, and yes, we'll never really know how well they could have done for us, but we got terrible value last summer and I'll lose the plot if similar happens this summer.

Terribly frustrating to see such talent moving to different clubs when we're screaming out for a player like them, only for us to lump in on a player who's not as good.

meriwether

Jayob10 wrote: »

Podolski will flop in England mark my words. He is a real homebird and will be pining for Deutschland in no time.

Worth a shot for £10m.

Kess73

PaulieC wrote: »

Was playing one of my mates last night in Fifa, playing as Belgium

Started discussing good young players and I got talking about Defour and Turan in particular being two players Liverpool missed out on big time considering who we went on to purchase.

We could discuss it all day, and yes, we'll never really know how well they could have done for us, but we got terrible value last summer and I'll lose the plot if similar happens this summer.

Terribly frustrating to see such talent moving to different clubs when we're screaming out for a player like them, only for us to lump in on a player who's not as good.

True that we will never know whether or not they would have done well, but if we had bought six players at the Turan/Sow/Defour level of price and talent rather than Carroll and Downing (picked those two on money spent) then we would have brought in six players for the same money we spent on two, and given ourselves a much higher chance of getting two players that turned out to be good enough for the first team.

MaceFace

Kess73 wrote: »

True that we will never know whether or not they would have done well, but if we had bought six players at the Turan/Sow/Defour level of price and talent rather than Carroll and Downing (picked those two on money spent) then we would have brought in six players for the same money we spent on two, and given ourselves a much higher chance of getting two players that turned out to be good enough for the first team.

That is exactly the problem we have had over the last 15 years. While the likes of Utd were going out spending large amounts on a small number of players we were buying a lot of players for smaller amounts. You spend big (while being sensible about it) and you increase your chances that the player will be a success.

Mr Alan

Just out of curiousity, how are Turan & Defour doing at their new clubs? Particularly Defour.

Kess73

MaceFace wrote: »

That is exactly the problem we have had over the last 15 years. While the likes of Utd were going out spending large amounts on a small number of players we were buying a lot of players for smaller amounts. You spend big (while being sensible about it) and you increase your chances that the player will be a success.

Yeah but Liverpool went and spent top quality prices on players nowhere near top quality. All that tactic does is give you the same chance of the players being a success as the lower price purchases, but a far greater chance of wasting huge chunks of money.

D'Agger

Mr Alan wrote: »

Just out of curiousity, how are Turan & Defour doing at their new clubs? Particularly Defour.

Turans doing well for Atleti from what I've been told, Defour I'm not so sure about tbh

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

Just out of curiousity, how are Turan & Defour doing at their new clubs? Particularly Defour.

Turan is doing well. Linking well with play and has made the jump from the Turkish to the Spanish league handily enough.

Defour was brought in as a squad player at Porto and to date has had 8 starts and 9 games where he came on as a sub. Moutinho, Gonzalez, and Fernando would be the regular trio in the centre for Porto. Defour has covered for all three so far this season. For what he cost, 6 million euro, he would have been a handy squad player for Liverpool imho, and even moreso after what happened to Lucas given that Defour can play as a CDM or a standard CM. Plus at 23 and that low price he would probably still have a decent resale value if he did not work out.

Kess73

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Defour has played 8 times this season for Porto, not sure if he's injured or not but pretty poor either way.

8 starts for Porto this season in the league, plus 9 games as a sub.

Chucky the tree

Kess73 wrote: »

8 starts for Porto this season in the league, plus 9 games as a sub.

Yea deleted that after checking a few places, wiki had him only down for 8 appearances.

Morzadec

£11m looks a decent buy for Podolski but he's on £100,000 a week. pretty high wages that needs to be considered

The Chessplayer

Liam O wrote: »

Do ye all really think you "missed out" on players like Podolski and Shaquri? They were never going to move to Liverpool with higher rated teams who will (at least probably) be playing in the CL for the foreseeable future and along with the likes of Hazard are out of Liverpool's reach.

What a load of absolute rubbish! In financial terms, only Utd, City and Chelsea can go around guaranteeing CL football (and even moneybags Chelsea might miss out this year). Liverpool are on a par with Arsenal and Spurs and will be for the foreseeable future. 4th spot is the best we can realistically aim for given the wealth of the club.

Sasquatch76 wrote: »

When money was tight, Rafa very often got it wrong, but when he was allowed spend big, he got it right far more often than not. I'd love to know what he'd have done in the past two windows...

We may be able to see him in action in the summer spending Abramovich's cash. It has to be remembered, though, while we spent poorly, not all of the players were our first choice, for example Downing. We lost out to United on Young. If United, City or Chelsea come in for any players, we've got to take a back seat. Even without CL football we can still probably tempt players ahead of Spurs based on reputation.

The Chessplayer

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He's spot on but he shouldn't say it. It will just drag it back up again and I've no doubt the people and the club will give him a talking to about it.

Completely disagree with you. It needed to be said. LFC came out looking stupid all because of a vindictive little man like Evra. The FA got it unbelievably wrong and Fergie had a field day with his "should never pay again" nonsense. The facts of the whole episode were completely lost in the media circus.

Suarez (like me when I got a 2 week ban for voicing my disdain for Man City fans) did not deserve the treatment he got. I agree with Johnson...except about his Paul McGrath comments, which were just stupid.

Kess73

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Completely disagree with you. It needed to be said. LFC came out looking stupid all because of a vindictive little man like Evra. The FA got it unbelievably wrong and Fergie had a field day with his "should never pay again" nonsense. The facts of the whole episode were completely lost in the media circus.

Suarez (like me when I got a 2 week ban for voicing my disdain for Man City fans) did not deserve the treatment he got. I agree with Johnson...except about his Paul McGrath comments, which were just stupid.

Why were those comments stupid? McGrath said quite a bit and some of what he said quite ignorant and could be seen as borderline racism.

daithijjj

Loving the latest images posted in the reds gallery. Roy Evans has serious Andy Garcia potential :pac:



Love this one too.

Sappy404

Kess73 wrote: »

Why were those comments stupid? McGrath said quite a bit and some of what he said quite ignorant and could be seen as borderline racism.

Not to mention hypocritical. McGrath came out in support of Ron Atkinson after he called Marcel Desailly a 'lazy thick n*****r' on live television. It seems when your old boss is blatantly racist, there are excuses, but when you're the teammate of somebody found guilty of abusing a player at McGrath's old club, you have a case to answer.

Sasquatch76

The Chessplayer wrote: »

We may be able to see him in action in the summer spending Abramovich's cash. It has to be remembered, though, while we spent poorly, not all of the players were our first choice, for example Downing. We lost out to United on Young. If United, City or Chelsea come in for any players, we've got to take a back seat. Even without CL football we can still probably tempt players ahead of Spurs based on reputation.

I don't see what Downing (or others) being our second choice has to do with anything I said? If Rafa had been in charge during the last two windows, with the funds KK had, would Young have even been our first choice? We'll never know, but I personally think Rafa would have been looking further afield for at least some of the positions that needed to be filled, rather than mainly going for overpriced "PL proven" British players.

mike65

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Suarez (like me when I got a 2 week ban for voicing my disdain for Man City fans) did not deserve the treatment he got.

The Chessplayer

Kess73 wrote: »

Why were those comments stupid? McGrath said quite a bit and some of what he said quite ignorant and could be seen as borderline racism.

Johnson was singled out by McGrath because he's the only black player in the team. Johnson argues that the very fact that he was singled out like this makes it a racist comment. I think that's an overly sensitive and academic-type interpretation of what racism is. McGrath was vocal in his opposition to the t-shirts thing, and it was a fair comment to make by me. I don't agree with McGrath, but I think it's ott to consider the comments racist.

I would like to repeat that GJ was otherwise spot on in his interview.

Knex*

Just seen this.

Joseph Musker
Our record with Maxi Rodriguez this season reads: Played: 11, Won: 8, Drawn: 2, Lost: 1. In this time he's scored 4 goals, starter?

Most of those games he was playing Lucas was starting as well so bit of a warped stat.

Knex*

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Johnson was singled out by McGrath because he's the only black player in the team

Is this not the definition of racism?

The Chessplayer

Sasquatch76 wrote: »

If Rafa had been in charge during the last two windows, with the funds KK had, would Young have even been our first choice? We'll never know, but I personally think Rafa would have been looking further afield for at least some of the positions that needed to be filled, rather than mainly going for overpriced "PL proven" British players.

Rafa never had Comolli breathing down his neck.

Lads, we've got to move on from "if Rafa was still here". Soon we may be facing a Rafa Chelsea team. Trailing 2-nil at half time are you going to be saying "well if Rafa was here, he'd do this and do that"?

The Chessplayer

Knex. wrote: »

Is this not the definition of racism?

It was a legitimate question. Johnson is black and the topic in question was racism against a black man. From McGrath's point of view, he's asking GJ why, as a black man, he would wear the t-shirt. Do you think he should have directed his comments at Martin Skrtel instead??? Like I say, I don't agree with McGrath, but the whole t-shirt thing wasn't thought through. PR disaster by FSG.

Dublin_Gunner

Knex. wrote: »

Just seen this.



Most of those games he was playing Lucas was starting as well so bit of a warped stat.

And my argument the other day was the exact opposite. People stating we'd done so well with Lucas in the side - whereas I argued we also had Maxi playing more - who contributes more to goals, hence I think maxi being left out could be deemed even more detrimental to our recent results as Lucas.

Stats can prove anything.

Mr Alan

The Chessplayer wrote: »

It was a legitimate question. Johnson is black and the topic in question was racism against a black man. From McGrath's point of view, he's asking GJ why, as a black man, he would wear the t-shirt. Do you think he should have directed his comments at Martin Skrtel instead??? Like I say, I don't agree with McGrath, but the whole t-shirt thing wasn't thought through. PR disaster by FSG.

Do you genuinely not get Johnsons point?

I'll explain it nice & simply for you......

The whole thing about racism is that we're all the same, black, white, yellow, orange, green, blue.

All. The. Same.

Love. Peace. Compassion. Etc. Etc.



As such, if there is a wrong commited (like racism), we should all be disgusted about it.

Equally.

What McGrath was saying basically was, it was alright for Gerrard, Carra etc to wear show their support of Suarez by wearing a tshirt. But it wasn't ok for Johnson, because he is black.

Surely if Johnson feels that Suarez was unfairly treated (which he clearly does), he is equally entitled to show his support for his colleague? And shouldn't be singled out because of the colour of his skin?

You up to speed yet?

Kess73

The Chessplayer wrote: »

It was a legitimate question. Johnson is black and the topic in question was racism against a black man. From McGrath's point of view, he's asking GJ why, as a black man, he would wear the t-shirt. Do you think he should have directed his comments at Martin Skrtel instead??? Like I say, I don't agree with McGrath, but the whole t-shirt thing wasn't thought through. PR disaster by FSG.

McGrath pretty much answered why Johnson was wearing the tshirt during his criticism of Johnson though, and by doing so pretty much nullified his comments.

But McGrath then went on the radio and on tv and repeatedly singled out Glen Johnson for wearing the tshirt, as well as singling him out on Twitter.



McGrath himself said that if he were a player he would not have worn the tshirt if he suspected his team mate was guilty, but by saying that he pretty much sets up the counterpoint that a player who thought his team mate was innocent would wear the tshirt, so then going on to single out Johnson on twitter , radio and on tv because Johnson was a black player wearing the tshirt is a bit ignorant as it pretty much walks over Johnson's right to think his own team mate was innocent. And to do so on the basis that Johnson was a black player and as such should be against Suarez could be seen by some people as calling Johnson a race traitor something that the rugby player actually did say about Johnson when he called Johnson an Uncle Tom for wearing the tshirt. Did not hear McGrath contradicting that comment on the radio or criticising the rugby player for an offensive comment.


Oh and how was the tshirt thing a pr disaster by FSG? Given they had no involvement in that.

Phoenix Park

Morzadec wrote: »

£11m looks a decent buy for Podolski but he's on £100,000 a week. pretty high wages that needs to be considered

If we are going to buy a centre forward with a view to getting into the the top 4 next season, we need someone of such quality as to command 100k-plus a week wages.

Mancini says he'd fancy RVP in his side (who wouldn't). I'd be sad to see Man City poach Van Persie from Arsenal in the summer, they have taken a lot of the talent that Wenger has unearthed and then nurtured, but from a Liverpool point of view it might be the best thing to happen. City are certs anyway for top 4 next season again, while losing RVP would be an enormous blow to Arsenal's hopes.

Knex*

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

And my argument the other day was the exact opposite. People stating we'd done so well with Lucas in the side - whereas I argued we also had Maxi playing more - who contributes more to goals, hence I think maxi being left out could be deemed even more detrimental to our recent results as Lucas.

Stats can prove anything.

I agree, but I imagine Maxi playing more had something to do with Lucas providing the cover needed in midfield. Without Lucas we were left with Adam and Gerrard predominantly in midfield, hence why Kuyt and Downing were getting the nod ahead of him I'd imagine.

Probably not as simply as that I grant you, but I'd imagine it has something to do with it.

Dublin_Gunner

Knex. wrote: »

I agree, but I imagine Maxi playing more had something to do with Lucas providing the cover needed in midfield. Without Lucas we were left with Adam and Gerrard predominantly in midfield, hence why Kuyt and Downing were getting the nod ahead of him I'd imagine.

Probably not as simply as that I grant you, but I'd imagine it has something to do with it.

Downing out, Maxi in. Problem solved.

Knex*

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Downing out, Maxi in. Problem solved.

Downing has been better than Kuyt this year, despite the slating he's been getting.

Dublin_Gunner

Knex. wrote: »

Downing has been better than Kuyt this year, despite the slating he's been getting.

Kuyt hasn't been starting much so its sort of a moot point really

Sir Gallagher

Maxi is sh1te, but he masks it with the odd goal here and there.

D'Agger

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Suarez (like me when I got a 2 week ban for voicing my disdain for Man City fans) did not deserve the treatment he got. I agree with Johnson...except about his Paul McGrath comments, which were just stupid.

Oh lol

Leiva

Our Glen likes his fashion so the new Warrior kit must be OK ...

“@thisisanfield: RT: “@glen_johnson: Just finished the photo shoot for the new kit !!! #Decent””

MD1990

i so sick of every English player saying everything is decent lol