Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12-Jan 2012 onwards

kingshankly

MD1990 wrote: »

its a warm up lol
what way do u want them to be like in the warm up?
ridicoulous comment

Focused it showed a lack of professionalism and concentration which was then carried on to the pitch and highlighted in the last 15 minutes
Please god rafa will sort out these mentality issues in the summer

anirishlad

The-Rigger wrote: »

Sold to buy.

I was being sarcastic :pac:

but seriously i reckon most of these signings were by Comolli or has he just been sitting on his arse

~Rebel~

MD1990 wrote: »

its a warm up lol
what way do u want them to be like in the warm up?
ridicoulous comment

tbh It's not actually a bad point. I wouldn't have ever really thought much of a warm up, but it's something where maybe lessens could be learned.

Different sport obviously, but look at Kilkenny - when they warm up they build in intensity to the point where, before the match starts, they're doing everything at full speed. Passing drills and 'man in the middle' closing down drills all done as if against the opposition.

Rafa was the master at getting Liverpool to start games at peak intensity to put the opposition on the back foot.

There's just something very languid about the team at the moment. It's been said a million times before, but the team doesn't bustle to give and go like they did when Kenny took over last year. A lot of jogging around, half assed movement just for the sake of appearances. Even with some of the less than amazing players there, they should be making much more use of quick, forceful passing, knowing the receiver can control a fast pass, and already be sprinting for the return. Besides Gerrard and Suarez, noone else in the list of regular starters does this. Bellamy does it, and Maxi does to a degree, but it's something we really lack.

Look at Swansea - they play the way Liverpool looked like evolving last season. Skill, control and trust in your teammates allied to hard work.

Jesus Wept

Comolli is weird. Heard it here first.

amacachi

ush wrote: »

Bolton loss was the kiss of death for our season. And that was because the team was focused on upcoming cup games. Winning the league cup compounded that. I think that Liverpool are good enough to challenge top four in a season that Arsenal have been periodically brittle, Chelsea got their manager sacked and Spurs start to wobble toward the end.

We could have got top four. But it required a single-mindedness that ignored Wembley nostalgia. I hate to say it but KD got the mix wrong on that one.

I don't think that's your problem tbh. Yes Arsenal are prone to poor runs but I think it's down to the squad not being good enough to sustain a campaign. Last season it was at the end when it became plain to see, this year it was at the beginning. Liverpool right now are roughly where their squad should put them in the league table, maybe a coupla wins less than they should have.

When Arsenal fans say they just need 2 or 3 players to challenge for the title they're wrong. Maybe they'd go well for 30 games at a time rather than 20-25 and be around the top at the end of the season but there'd still be a gap. I still think Liverpool will finish about 6th and that's all that should be expected.

whatawaster

The-Rigger wrote: »

Sold to buy.

Are you for real?

In
Carroll 35m
Suarez 22m
Henderson 16m
Adam 8m
Downing 16m
Enrique 6m
Coates 5m

Total 106m



Out
Torres 50m
Babel 6m
Konchesky 1.5m
Mavinga 1m
Ayala 1m
Meireles 12m
N'Gog 4m

Total 76m

Net spend 30m

But that's not really the point. Even if he had spent 100m and recouped 100m he still spent the money terribly.

ush

kingshankly wrote: »

Focused it showed a lack of professionalism and concentration which was then carried on to the pitch and highlighted in the last 15 minutes

Winning a cup too early in the season f#cked with their heads.

Jesus Wept

~Rebel~ wrote: »

tbh It's not actually a bad point. I wouldn't have ever really thought much of a warm up, but it's something where maybe lessens could be learned.

Different sport obviously, but look at Kilkenny - when they warm up they build in intensity to the point where, before the match starts, they're doing everything at full speed. Passing drills and 'man in the middle' closing down drills all done as if against the opposition.

Rafa was the master at getting Liverpool to start games at peak intensity to put the opposition on the back foot.

There's just something very languid about the team at the moment. It's been said a million times before, but the team doesn't bustle to give and go like they did when Kenny took over last year. A lot of jogging around, half assed movement just for the sake of appearances. Even with some of the less than amazing players there, they should be making much more use of quick, forceful passing, knowing the receiver can control a fast pass, and already be sprinting for the return. Besides Gerrard and Suarez, noone else in the list regular starters do it. Bellamy does it, and Maxi does to a degree, but it's something we really lack.

Look at Swansea - they play the way Liverpool looked like evolving last season. Skill, control and trust in your teammates allied to hard work.

Kenny is more focused on being liked by the players than getting the best out of them.

He is in some ways the opposite of Rafa, Rafa wanted to be respected. He didn't give a crap about the players as individuals or even see them as such.

Jesus Wept

whatawaster wrote: »

Are you for real?

In
Carroll 35m
Suarez 22m
Henderson 16m
Adam 8m
Downing 16m
Enrique 6m
Coates 5m

Total 106m



Out
Torres 50m
Babel 6m
Konchesky 1.5m
Mavinga 1m
Ayala 1m
Meireles 12m
N'Gog 4m

Total 76m

Net spend 30m

But that's not really the point. Even if he had spent 100m and recouped 100m he still spent the money terribly.

You forgot Paulson. :pac:

kingshankly

It will get worse before it gets better I can see players "minding" themselves for the the cup semi final

MD1990

kingshankly wrote: »

Focused it showed a lack of professionalism and concentration which was then carried on to the pitch and highlighted in the last 15 minutes

so a lack of concentration in the warm up 90 minutes before they scored there first goal was carried on to the pitch even though we went 2-0 up
are u serious?

K-9

Sasquatch76 wrote: »

Never answered my own question (self derp), and I shouldn't have put it in so black and white terms (other barometers of progress available rather than league position... and no I don't mean kit deals!).

At the start of the season, I'd have said 7th-5th place would have been fine so long as we weren't too far behind the eventual champions, maybe 20-23 points or so. But realistically, we could be as many as 35 points behind at the end of the season, which is pretty horrendous given the overall standard of the PL this season.

I'm trying to remain positive, and say that the FA cup and a decent run of league results are still possible. But I'm failing. Miserably.

I see what you are getting at, really being 20-23 points of 1st doesn't enter my head, 10 points of 4th or whatever it is, does.

I was happy enough with us up to Xmas, all I wanted was a decent challenge at 4th.

As for transition, obviously we are, yet Arsenal are challenging and were in the CL, same with Chelsea. We should be near Arsenals points with only Cups to worry about. I don't go in for irrational over reactions but my God, the league since Xmas is atrocious.

As for Kenny not making changes, tbh we've found out the quality of the squad we've built, which most of us harped on about pre Xmas, isn't that great. God love us if we'd a serious injury crisis. There are no game changing player left on the bench, that'll take time seeing as how bad our bench was, but for the money spent, it's poor.

Johnson, Lucas, Bellamy and Agger out and we look very average. That happens with 4 quality players unavailable, but there is little genuine quality left.

I'm at Rafa and his last season stage, I genuinely don't know! I prefer pretending to know!

argosy2006

http://blog.livefootballtickets.com/post/2011/03/20/Premier-League-Table-Rankings-Sunday-March-20-2011.aspx

last years table,
3 more pt and we match it lol

~Rebel~

The-Rigger wrote: »

Half of £0 = .... where's my calculator.

Rig, a lot of money was spent. Just because the net spend is low, doesn't mean much here.

Players were sold, and as such the money brought in needed to replacement. This simply hasn't happened adequately.

Getting 50 million for Torres and paying out 35 million on his replacement. There was scope there for a master stroke - to improve, or at least equal, Torres contribution at a profit. Instead we have a 35 million player sitting on the bench half the time.

With the money spent on Downing, Henderson, Adam and Carroll, had different - more astute - decisions been made, we could have really pushed on.

Nalz

The-Rigger wrote: »

You forgot Paulson. :pac:

he became the second player in history after Florin Răducioiu to play in all five of the big leagues (England, Spain, Germany, Italy and France)

kingshankly

MD1990 wrote: »

so a lack of concentration in the warm up 90 minutes before they scored there first goal was carried on to the pitch even though we went 2-0 up
are u serious?

It shows the mentality of the team
This game meant nothing to them
Jesus any warm up I ever did be it gaelic or soccer was done a match intensity and you daren't not act the bollox

Sasquatch76

K-9 wrote: »

I'm at Rafa and his last season stage, I genuinely don't know!

Welcome to my world! :pac:

Actually, that should have read

Sasquatch76

kingshankly wrote: »

It shows the mentality of the team
This game meant nothing to them
Jesus any warm up I ever did be it gaelic or soccer was done a match intensity and you daren't not act the bollox

To be fair, you didn't even see this warm-up for yourself.

kingshankly

Sasquatch76 wrote: »

To be fair, you didn't even see this warm-up for yourself.

And to be fair I have just been told the commentator eluded to it on his pre match summary on 5 live so it must have been fairly half arsed

ush

Sasquatch76 wrote: »

To be fair, you didn't even see this warm-up for yourself.

He's passing on someone else's observation. No harm in that really.

Jesus Wept

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Rig, a lot of money was spent. Just because the net spend is low, doesn't mean much here.

Players were sold, and as such the money brought in needed to replacement. This simply hasn't happened adequately.

Getting 50 million for Torres and paying out 35 million on his replacement. There was scope there for a master stroke - to improve, or at least equal, Torres contribution at a profit. Instead we have a 35 million player sitting on the bench half the time.

With the money spent on Downing, Henderson, Adam and Carroll, had different - more astute - decisions been made, we could have really pushed on.

I agree we signed badly. I also think they have been used poorly and I also think Kenny isn't up to it. I don't even like the guy unlike everyone else here - his interviews are dire, he's very obnoxious for no reason, petty and overly emotional.

It's a disappointment that we didn't sign better players and take the opportunity to improve our position however considering there was zero outlay on the squad, it shouldn't come as any great surprise or outrage. It was a three card monty trick, even if we had signed better players we still would have a very shallow squad and injuries could have destroyed us.

But yes, the signings haven't been good enough and that falls to Comolli and Kenny.

Trilla wrote: »

he became the second player in history after Florin Răducioiu to play in all five of the big leagues (England, Spain, Germany, Italy and France)

He's my second fav liverpool legend.

MD1990

kingshankly wrote: »

It shows the mentality of the team
This game meant nothing to them
Jesus any warm up I ever did be it gaelic or soccer was done a match intensity and you daren't not act the bollox

its doesn't its a warm up nothing serious..
u often see players listening to music before game so are they not focused either?
don't compare it to Gaa please

ush

kingshankly wrote: »

And to be fair I have just been told the commentator eluded to it on his pre match summary on 5 live so it must have been fairly half arsed

Thats the manager's fault. He should have a good enough command of the dressing room to keep the group behaving professionally in warm ups. Its the same as the Bolton game; sending out a team thats not focused on the current game.

Sasquatch76

kingshankly wrote: »

And to be fair I have just been told the commentator eluded to it on his pre match summary on 5 live so it must have been fairly half arsed

And to be fair, you didn't hear that for yourself either :pac:

I get what you're saying, I do. I genuinely believe that there's an attitude problem with one or two players who think a cup winner's medal in February means they can take their foot off the gas. But as for this specific situation, I've seen plenty of teams have a laugh and a joke during warm-up and go on to destroy the opposition. If our warm-up really was that half-arsed, and caused an affect, I don't think we'd have had the best of the first half, and gone 2-0 up in the second.

kingshankly

Sasquatch76 wrote: »

And to be fair, you didn't hear that for yourself either :pac:

I get what you're saying, I do. I genuinely believe that there's an attitude problem with one or two players who think a cup winner's medal in February means they can take their foot off the gas. But as for this specific situation, I've seen plenty of teams have a laugh and a joke during warm-up and go on to destroy the opposition. If our warm-up really was that half-arsed, and caused an affect, I don't think we'd have had the best of the first half, and gone 2-0 up in the second.

I realise warm ups arnt everything I'm using it as an example to the lack of professionalism and concentration that was in our players tonight and there's no excuse for that ( was on 5 live between 7:45-8pm he said I'm sure it can be listened back for verification if needed)

Sasquatch76

kingshankly wrote: »

I realise warm ups arnt everything I'm using it as an example to the lack of professionalism and concentration that was in our players tonight and there's no excuse for that ( was on 5 live between 7:45-8pm he said I'm sure it can be listened back for verification if needed)

Ah, I was just joking about the commentary

Jayob10

One thing Kenny always says that strikes some resonance: You are never as your worst defeat but you are never as good as your finest win either.

I will say what I always say, Kenny as much as we respect him will be ultimately judged on his signings. Thats the acid test.

People will call the players bottlers etc... and feel sorry for the boss who is a club legend. But the reality is that the buck stops with him. Kenny is no longer dealing with someone elses mess like last season.

He has shaped his own squad with decent backing, and the weak links of this side are some of the players he brought here himself.

One comment I found infuriating this week was his response to questions on new signings. Kenny spouted off some guff about how "new signings would need to be pretty special to be better than what we have already" which rings true but then he added the golden disclaimer " Because what we signed and what was here already is fantastic, unbelievable".

Surely he cannot for a second think that comments like that will wash.

The man is a legend, has brought stability and a certain degree of respectability to the club and for that he is to be applauded. He is in it for the club and not himself.

But we cannot allow mediocrity fester in the club like it has for the last 20 years, where crap is celebrated and countless excuses are made. It shows how standards have slipped.
There needs to be a clear plan, thats what Kenny was supposedly advocating in the summer. But the sad thing is and has been pointed out countless times on this thread, the signings were unimaginative, uninspiring, costly, and lacking in both quality and as we now see, character also.

And Kenny will live and die by these signings in the end.

kingshankly

In fairness to kenny I would have signed the exact same players

Jayob10

kingshankly wrote: »

In fairness to kenny I would have signed the exact same players

maybe you just have a dodgy eye for a player or you need some new scouts King Shanks

El Inho

thought we'd have a new forum and all within 5 mins of the final whistle

klose

Id genuinely like to see this doni guy get a run in the team, new enough here but ive seen the jokes for ages. Never seen him play, how is he? Quick google showed 160 odd caps for roma since 05 so he cant the worst? Just think reina hasent been haven an amazing season by his standerds.

OwaynOTT

whippedcream wrote: »

Id genuinely like to see this doni guy get a run in the team, new enough here but ive seen the jokes for ages. Never seen him play, how is he? Quick google showed 160 odd caps for roma since 05 so he cant the worst? Just think reina hasent been haven an amazing season by his standerds.

Jaysus be wasting Doni's talents putting him in goal!

joe123

Missed the game tonight, at work still doing the night shift. Am shocked at the result though.

Our cup runs have bought Kenny time (another season).

Our signings are the biggest problem. They have all been ****. 100 million pounds worth of ****.

But when people say "oh we are only a few points off better than last season"....

Please remember the type of football Hodgson had us playing. It made my brain hurt and my eyes bleed. Long ball nonsense up to Torres week in week out.

If Kenny ever did decide to step down at the end of this season. Rafa HAS to be the man to come back. I simply wouldnt trust anyone else with the way the club is at the minute.

And I dont know about anyone else but id give up the FA cup and the carling cup in a heartbeat if it meant 4th place

Sir Gallagher

Our club is a ****ing joke.

JimsAlterEgo

kingshankly wrote: »

Rational thought my hole it's week in week out of "seeing positives " we're getting there""we were unlucky" time to wake up we're sliding fast lads and unless addressed we will be a mid table team

hate to tell you but you already are a game raising mid table team who can up their performances in the big games or for cup matches but don't try vs the rest.

Leiva

OK I had time to sleep on this but it really has not taken the hard edge of the disappointment that was the comedy show in the last 20mins of last nights game.

With all the ups and downs , controversies , cup runs, player performances etc etc. it is easy to not see the wood from the trees . and for me we are simply not good enough, nor will we be in the next couple of seasons if we are going to rely on the potential purchased to come good and be the core of a squad for the next decade.

Look just as an example we have replaced players like Masch & Alonso with Adam & Spearing.... Torres with Carroll , Gerrard with Henderson (long term)

If we use our best squad in recent years as a yard stick (2008-2009) which finished second (86pts) then compared to our current squad after £100m spent (not getting into how the monies was generated now thanks !) then we are a very very long way off even a top four squad , never mind contending .
So when you take a step back and just have a look on paper along with the advantage of over 9 months playing together - this squad and signings are a massive massive failure .. Operation Young English PL proven is dead .

Who is to blame ?.........

#1 Kenny : Signings are like swords - live by them die by them .

#2 Comolli : He suggested and handed some of those swords to Kenny.

#3 Owners: New to the game but still trusted the two above so kudos for that , but would have liked them to sit on the Torres money til the summer of 2011.

What next ?? ...

Turn the ship around . the current course and policy is flawed full stop . Is the current management flawed ? ..probably , but another year will let us know more. so taking into account my love for Kenny his status and passion , then another season is justified ,.

But like Kess i hope Kenny takes that decision out of my hands and moves upstairs in the summer .

lempsipmax

“Our main goal is to qualify for the Champions League. If we don’t it would be a major disappointment.” John W Henry

This is a very specific statement from a man who chooses his words very carefully. We are a significant distance from this goal, 12 points and inferior goals difference. I don't how it will play out or be choreographed for the KD fans but there is no doubt for me that he will not be manager at the start of next season. He did earn a contract when he took over from Roy, but I see nil evidence from this season that he should be allowed to continue.

For him to shrug his shoulders and say he couldn't explain last nights collapse must be very worrying for John Henry as an owner, it certainly worries me.

As I said previously my big regret is that we squandered 100 million (wherever this money came from), which was a rare opportunity build a the nucleus of a team.

Sappy404

I don't blame last night's loss on Kenny, but he has to take responsibility for what happens over the whole season.

If we go out of the FA Cup in the next round, continue to waste chance after chance in the remaining league games and finish 7th or worse, would anybody on here want to see him stay on?

When he was given the job I had my doubts about how wise it was to appoint someone who was essentially unsackable, even after 5 months of improved football when he was caretaker. What we've seen this year - the profligacy, the single-gear performances and the dour, uncreative midfield - has put him in a very questionable position in a lot of people's eyes. It's basically the nightmare scenario that we feared when he was appointed - he's done fairly well, but not as well as the club expects. Not as well as another manager could do.

kevohmsford

The main problem is more money will have to be spent on players in the summer. Will the owners trust Dalglish to spend it wisely, not so sure. We will be doing well to finish sixth at this stage.
Also the owners know how popular Kenny is with the supporters and this will make their decision very difficult.

Benzino

The-Rigger wrote: »

I agree we signed badly. I also think they have been used poorly and I also think Kenny isn't up to it. I don't even like the guy unlike everyone else here - his interviews are dire, he's very obnoxious for no reason, petty and overly emotional.

I wouldn't go as far as saying I don't like the guy, but i agree 100% with this. At first I liked his interviews, probably because they were a nice change from Roy. But I've grown tired of them, and actually hate listening to them. He always seems to be in defensive mode and obnoxious. It's completely unnecessary and makes the club look bad IMO. If somebody spoke to me like that, I would probably to tell them to f**k off!

Leiva

Benzino wrote: »

I wouldn't go as far as saying I don't like the guy, but i agree 100% with this. At first I liked his interviews, probably because they were a nice change from Roy. But I've grown tired of them, and actually hate listening to them. He always seems to be in defensive mode and obnoxious. It's completely unnecessary and makes the club look bad IMO. If somebody spoke to me like that, I would probably to tell them to f**k off!

But he wouldn't talk to you like that ?

He doesn't play the "SKY "game and has the measure of all those journalist tossers that troll and look for a rise .

What you prefer then ? ..Mr SKY love in himself Harry Rednapp ?

Fúck that ! give me Kenny any day .

mike65

kingshankly wrote: »

And to be fair I have just been told the commentator eluded to it on his pre match summary on 5 live so it must have been fairly half arsed

Sasquatch76 wrote: »

And to be fair, you didn't hear that for yourself either :pac:

I get what you're saying, I do. I genuinely believe that there's an attitude problem with one or two players who think a cup winner's medal in February means they can take their foot off the gas. But as for this specific situation, I've seen plenty of teams have a laugh and a joke during warm-up and go on to destroy the opposition. If our warm-up really was that half-arsed, and caused an affect, I don't think we'd have had the best of the first half, and gone 2-0 up in the second.

I was listening and yes it was noted that the squad was laughing and joking rather than doing any hard work.

Sappy404

Benzino wrote: »

I wouldn't go as far as saying I don't like the guy, but i agree 100% with this. At first I liked his interviews, probably because they were a nice change from Roy. But I've grown tired of them, and actually hate listening to them. He always seems to be in defensive mode and obnoxious. It's completely unnecessary and makes the club look bad IMO. If somebody spoke to me like that, I would probably to tell them to f**k off!

I mostly don't care what tone he takes in pressers. If the results are good, the football is good and the team is on the right track, a man who loves the club as much as Kenny could literally throw toys out of a pram while shouting "I would love it if we beat them" followed by calling Simon Bird a c**t and spending the rest of it blowing raspberries while the journalists were asking questions and I'd still be happy.

Alas, the results, the football and the team aren't up to scratch.

Dr Galen

If there has been one thing that people should take from the history of FSG in other sports, its that sentimentality doesn't really enter into it for them. They are not afraid of making a potentially unpopular call if it required.

I'd be pretty confident that if they had to, or at least they felt they had to, they would be getting rid of anyone who they felt was getting in the way.

mike65

Kuyt made his 200th appearance last night.

kingshankly

mike65 wrote: »

Kuyt made his 200th appearance last night.

A fantastic servant who never gave less than 100% and you can't ask any more than that

mike65

kingshankly wrote: »

A fantastic servant who never gave less than 100% and you can't ask any more than that

Never been his biggest fan but if everyone showed his diligence and honesty of effort *ahem* the team would be in better shape. Too many passengers of one sort or another right now. I'm certainly not expecting Adam to throw a leg for the rest of the season.

AwayWithFaries

Sappy404 wrote: »

I mostly don't care what tone he takes in pressers. If the results are good, the football is good and the team is on the right track, a man who loves the club as much as Kenny could literally throw toys out of a pram while shouting "I would love it if we beat them" followed by calling Simon Bird a c**t and spending the rest of it blowing raspberries while the journalists were asking questions and I'd still be happy.

Alas, the results, the football and the team aren't up to scratch.

I think the football we are playing is attractive, free flowing, positive. Nothing wrong with that.
The results and the team however are a problem. We can't be losing games like the QPR one or Aresnal, dominating only to get pipped at the end. Then there are all those drawn home games, again dominating throughout but failing to finish off a team.


As for the signings, Kenny seems to be getting a lot of slack for them. Downing and Adam were two of the best players in the premier league last year. Failures this year.
When Carroll was bought he had been terrific for Newcastle really looked a future star. Also failed to show any of the promise.
Henderson also looked good last year but hasn't been great.

I can't really blame Kenny when all these actually looked good before they joined. It just seemed once they joined they forgot how to play football.

If I had one problem with Kenny it's not his signings, it's his team selections.
I know Bellamy can't get more time because his legs will fall off or something but I think if Maxi had as much game time as Downing we would have had a lot more goals this year. Any time Carroll has actually showed a bit of life in a game, Kenny seems to drop him for the next game. WTF is that about, way to boost his confidence.

I don't know what is going on at this club but hopefully that collapse last night will be the kick up the arse some of these players need. If a loss like that doesn't serve as a wake up call and push you to up your game you really shouldn't be playing football.

I am pie

I still can't bear to even glance at the football websites this morning. That defeat was so very hard to take for many reasons.

I started to type more, but i can't. I just.....I can't.., no. Arrghh, too painful.

Snakeblood

AwayWithFaries wrote: »

As for the signings, Kenny seems to be getting a lot of slack for them. Downing and Adam were two of the best players in the premier league last year. Failures this year.
When Carroll was bought he had been terrific for Newcastle really looked a future star. Also failed to show any of the promise.
Henderson also looked good last year but hasn't been great.

I can't really blame Kenny when all these actually looked good before they joined. It just seemed once they joined they forgot how to play football.

He's managing them, he should be getting them to at least maintain the standard of play they had in other clubs surely?